Game

[Tasty]

What i've basically learned over the last few months: Iwata and Miyamoto are pretty hardcore about gameplay mechanics. Not in that "oh cute" twee way - as in angry/shouty/sort this shit out/this is garbage quality "nazi" levels.

If I may, you have to be a fucking moron not to know that. I know that people who dislike Nintendo's current direction like to say that history's view of Miyamoto is inflated, but this was a dude who programmed the fucking NES. I don't care what anyone says, that makes anyone hardcore as shit.

Same for Iwata. He flashed some of his programming chops in one of the Iwata asks and my jaw gaped a bit.

Their public characters may be flanderized since being in the public spotlight so much and for so long, but they'll always be fricking smart game designers and programmers.

"Upending the tea table" was always a candy coated euphemism for what I assumed truly happened. You don't throw out months of someone's work without anger and shouting involved, no matter what the case.

That Shiggy story is pretty badass but it makes me wonder how Twilight Princess got released.

That's an example of Miyamoto uprooting big chunks of a game himself after he didn't like the direction Aonuma was taking it. Purportedly.

[Tasty]

Also, Twilight Princess was awesome.

Dem dungeons.

[Human Snorenado]

TP was awesome once you got past the annoying initial shit.

Still tho, as to that earlier shit about quality and crap, all that really needs to be said is WII MUSIC.  There's yet to be a good rebuttal to it.

[Human Snorenado]

DON'T YOU FUCKING TELL ME THAT THE NEW FIRE EMBLEM IS GOOD, OSCAR

FUCK THIS GAY EARTH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO BUY A 3DS AREN'T I

[Tasty]

 

Don't forget Pocketo Monstahs, Oscar. BW made it AAA tier.

[DCharlieJP]

If I may, you have to be a fucking moron not to know that. I know that people who dislike Nintendo's current direction like to say that history's view of Miyamoto is inflated, but this was a dude who programmed the fucking NES. I don't care what anyone says, that makes anyone hardcore as shit.

Same for Iwata. He flashed some of his programming chops in one of the Iwata asks and my jaw gaped a bit.

Their public characters may be flanderized since being in the public spotlight so much and for so long, but they'll always be fricking smart game designers and programmers.

"Upending the tea table" was always a candy coated euphemism for what I assumed truly happened. You don't throw out months of someone's work without anger and shouting involved, no matter what the case.

I'll be perfectly honest - i'm surprised that Iwata and Miyamoto are as hands on as to -play through- each title submitted. My assumption from my involvement in -other industries- is that would be delegated with seniority.

[Tasty]

Don't worry Triumph, NoA will find a way to screw it up somehow.

And Andy, sorry, I don't hand out that AAA status very easily.  I give Black/White points for putting some actual effort in for once, but it's still far too derivative to be considered God-tier.  Same reason I denied NSMB Wii that status, even though I think it's an incredibly well-made game.

shut up oscar u dont no what your talking about

[Trent Dole]

Also, Twilight Princess was awesome.

Dem dungeons.

Agh wait, I meant Skyward Sword. TP was good. Aside from the god awful 10 hour intro tutorial that makes replaying the game impossible since no one can suffer it multiple times.

[Great Rumbler]

Miyamoto dropped the hammer pretty hard on Retro in the early days of Prime, from what I remember. Too bad the details of that particular set of meetings isn't public information.

[Joe Molotov]

I would pay good money to see a video of Miyamoto being like "Stupid gaijins!" and flipping over a table after playing like Project HAMMER or something.

[Tasty]

Miyamoto dropped the hammer pretty hard on Retro in the early days of Prime, from what I remember. Too bad the details of that particular set of meetings isn't public information.

It pretty much wiped them out. All their other games were cancelled and Prime was turned from this really poor looking third person game to a gorgeous FPA.

The Miyamoto Touch™

[Trurl]

What i've basically learned over the last few months: Iwata and Miyamoto are pretty hardcore about gameplay mechanics. Not in that "oh cute" twee way - as in angry/shouty/sort this shit out/this is garbage quality "nazi" levels.

Which , as loathed as i am to give Nintendo any credit (OBVIOUSLY!!!), i find increadibly uplifting. If they are prepared to can long term investments into -franchises of note- because they don't feel perfect? That makes me pop a boner.

Why do they have such low standards when it comes to how games teach players game play mechanincs?  Endless, unskippable, and boring tutorials should be unacceptable and Iwata and Miyamoto should know better.

[Owl-faced Wizard]

What i've basically learned over the last few months: Iwata and Miyamoto are pretty hardcore about gameplay mechanics. Not in that "oh cute" twee way - as in angry/shouty/sort this shit out/this is garbage quality "nazi" levels.

Which , as loathed as i am to give Nintendo any credit (OBVIOUSLY!!!), i find increadibly uplifting. If they are prepared to can long term investments into -franchises of note- because they don't feel perfect? That makes me pop a boner.

Why do they have such low standards when it comes to how games teach players game play mechanincs?  Endless, unskippable, and boring tutorials should be unacceptable and Iwata and Miyamoto should know better.

It's weird cos I know he hates all the talking and stuff, and publically gave the director some shit in an interview about collecting key pieces.  He must just be really hands-off with Zelda nowadays is all I can think of.

[Trurl]

Maybe they take so much pride in control schemes that they get joy from explaining them in tutorials.

[Tasty]

Super Guide has been a pretty good salve in their gameplay-focused games (redundant?) SMG2, NSMBW, DKCR. No tutorials, heck NSMBW had an initial easy couple worlds but otherwise no babby handholding in those games either. All three were the most difficult games in their series in years.

Definitely an innovation I hope they exploit in more games, especially Zelda.

[Trurl]

Yeah, Super Guide has been a big improvement.

I just get some joy out of figuring out a game's control scheme through trial and error and wish I had that option.

[Cerveza mas fina]

DC thats a nice story that once upon a time would have ment something, but as Borys pointed out Wii Music, Zelda, Mario Kart etc.

When everything thats put out has to equal that soulless nintendo gameplay model then all is not good.

[Human Snorenado]

Dunno about the Wii version, but Mario Kart 7 is excellent.  Wii Music obviously fell into a blindspot because it was Shigeru's own baby, something he had wanted to make for a while, and no one is going to tell him otherwise.  Skyward Sword, though, I don't know what to say.

Waggle, that's what

[EmCeeGrammar]

The last 3 posters in this thread haven't played skyward sword. 

[AdmiralViscen]

Most example Dolphin games look better than early 360 titles IMO.

and how do early 360 games look running on super high end PC GPUs with 16xFSAA , post processing, and overscanning to 4K resolutions?

This is just such a cul de sac of an argument - i just don't see what Nthings get out of it. "If the Wii was actually a super powerful PC with a massive GPU just LOOK at how good the games would look! They'd be like first gen X360 games!!" - err.... okay!

That wasn't the point you dope, and you sort of just proved it. Resolution is the most noticeable aspect of a system's graphics. Open book, close book.

No it isn't. It might be the least noticeable, given how many people hook up their 360 and ps3 with composite

[maxy]

uh,oh

Mr. Resolution Man won't be happy now.

[Huff]

The last 3 posters in this thread haven't played skyward sword.

And I wish I could add my name to that list

[Tasty]

SS is one of the lesser Zeldas but it's still pretty good. Honestly I think the Wii/waggle hate brigade likes to exaggerate its "poor" reception (93 on MetaCritic, lol.)

I was personally disappointed with the low dungeon count, especially since even fewer approach TP levels, but there are some gems and the more intellectual combat works great 85% of the time.

[EmCeeGrammar]

The last 3 posters in this thread haven't played skyward sword.

S'true, I have it but have had very little time for single player home games this year.  Still, you have to admit, the reception to it has been considerably chillier than usual for the main series.  Even Aeana and Dragona, who are both nuts for Zelda, said the game nosedives after a promising start.  And no offence, but I trust their word infinitely further than yours. 

However, I haven't played it.  Which is why I said I didn't know what to tell him.  Don't worry, someday I will play it, and then I'll be sure to tell you exactly what I think of it.

I really don't know what the reception to it is, as I've pretty much learned not to listen to internet dwellers about nearly everything.  Ie, one would think Phantom Hourglass was terribad when I find it very charming and fun.  IRL zelda people i know haven't existed since.... junior high?  Didn't help that skyrim had total mindshare that holiday season and i couldn't get the few people who had wiis to tell me what they think.  Has the game not had the typical legs zelda games do?

I'm not sure what buggers people about the game to be perfectly honest.  As opposed to wind waker and twilight princess and even ocarina that are flawed games with far more egregious 'padding' and larger bouts of tedium that offend far more than SS.  In the end it wasn't what I wanted (that would be New! Legend of Zelda) but its the best 3d zelda along with majora's mask.

[Cerveza mas fina]

What buggers most Zelda dissidents its that the game hasn't changed since OOT, there is no innovation, just refinement (and even thats questionable) and being trapped in dogmas and tropes.

[Momo]

I havent liked a Zelda game since LTTP

[TakingBackSunday]

I loved SS 

[Owl-faced Wizard]

What buggers most Zelda dissidents its that the game hasn't changed since OOT, there is no innovation, just refinement (and even thats questionable) and being trapped in dogmas and tropes.

You have it backwards - there is some 'innovation', but little refinement.  They add shit like touch screen controls or motion controls but don't tweak much of anything else.

[D3RANG3D]

The last 3 posters in this thread haven't played skyward sword.

S'true, I have it but have had very little time for single player home games this year.  Still, you have to admit, the reception to it has been considerably chillier than usual for the main series.  Even Aeana and Dragona, who are both nuts for Zelda, said the game nosedives after a promising start.  And no offence, but I trust their word infinitely further than yours. 

However, I haven't played it.  Which is why I said I didn't know what to tell him.  Don't worry, someday I will play it, and then I'll be sure to tell you exactly what I think of it.

I really don't know what the reception to it is, as I've pretty much learned not to listen to internet dwellers about nearly everything.  Ie, one would think Phantom Hourglass was terribad when I find it very charming and fun.  IRL zelda people i know haven't existed since.... junior high?  Didn't help that skyrim had total mindshare that holiday season and i couldn't get the few people who had wiis to tell me what they think.  Has the game not had the typical legs zelda games do?

I'm not sure what buggers people about the game to be perfectly honest.  As opposed to wind waker and twilight princess and even ocarina that are flawed games with far more egregious 'padding' and larger bouts of tedium that offend far more than SS.  In the end it wasn't what I wanted (that would be New! Legend of Zelda) but its the best 3d zelda along with majora's mask.

Zelda hasn't been good since MM

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Darksiders is the best Zelda this gen

[close]

[AdmiralViscen]

I own every non CDi Zelda game, even those Cube discs.

SS is the only one I have not beaten. What a yawnfest.

[archie4208]

The next Zelda should be designed after Dark Souls.  Drop you in a world and let you figure it out.

[EmCeeGrammar]

The next Zelda should be designed after Dark Souls.  Drop you in a world and let you figure it out.

No objections, which is what i think something like a New! Legend of Zelda would play out. 2d overhead, old school but without the nes jank.

[TakingBackSunday]

Yeah that'll never fucking happen

[AdmiralViscen]

I'd buy any console I had to to play that

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Nintendo is creatively bankrupt, you would never see a game like Dark Souls with a Nintendo logo slapped on the box.

The next Zelda will probably be some ubertwee and hand-holdy experience.

[Tasty]

Nintendo is creatively bankrupt, you would never see a game like Dark Souls with a Nintendo logo slapped on the box.

[Damian79]

Nintendo is creatively bankrupt, you would never see a game like Dark Souls with a Nintendo logo slapped on the box.

The next Zelda will probably be some ubertwee and hand-holdy experience.

It is because Nintendo mainly makes games for kids now.  Also i dont think you know what creatively bankrupt means.

[Tasty]

I noticed you limited it to consoles, Oscar. What handheld games have sold worse? Probably not either of the DS ones, or OoT 3D. LttP GBA did fairly well I thought. So, the Oracle games?

[tiesto]

Skyward Sword wasn't that great, and believe it or not, the waggle was the least of its problems. The level of padding was laughably blatant, the handholding sucked, as did the truncated dungeons (though a few of them had some nice design, namely levels 3, 4, and 6) and lame fetch quest sidequests the game was filled with. Definitely the weakest 3D Zelda, I think I preferred WW to it in hindsight. TP is still best 3D Zelda.

[Tasty]

Ah I forgot Minish Cap. And I had always wondered how ST did, apparently not too good... probably why they abandoned the WW style for the 3DS's Zelda game.

Also, yeah, the middle couple of dungeons had signs of brilliance. None of them touched TP's greats, but they were good in their own right. Ancient Cistern in particular really, really stands out.

But yeah. The padding was pretty blatant. It didn't kill the game, but it definitely softened its impact too much.

That all said, I liked the direction in general they were refining the gameplay with. Or as I call it, the "MonHun-ization of Zelda." More of that and a more open, active overworld would be a damn fine game.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Nintendo is creatively bankrupt, you would never see a game like Dark Souls with a Nintendo logo slapped on the box.

The next Zelda will probably be some ubertwee and hand-holdy experience.

It is because Nintendo mainly makes games for kids now.  Also i dont think you know what creatively bankrupt means.

I know what that term means, hence why I used it.

[Damian79]

So why do you use the term when Nintendo still makes games that are the frame work for 3rd parties copying thier ideas?  Sure the ideas that Nintendo have dont cater to you dont benefit you but that is a far cry from being creatively bankrupt.

[Damian79]

I agree completely Oscar.  I think the problem comes from 3d really adding nothing new to gameplay.

[Tasty]

I agree completely Oscar.  I think the problem comes from 3d really adding nothing new to gameplay.

It doesn't add any new control inputs but that doesn't mean creative things can't be done with it (although it may mean the barrier to creative entry is a little higher.)

I do think Nintendo is realizing they can actually make quirky, small games now that the eShop is semi-viable (and they're trying to legitimize it with retail games as well.) Wonder what they'll do for the Wii U's shop.

[maxy]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really

We asked Blitz Games Studios' design director John Nash the impossible to answer question: is the Wii U more powerful than the current generation? "It's comparable to the current generation and a bit more powerful than that," he replied. Pretty unscientific, eh?

First, the positives. Where the Wii U outdoes the current generation is in RAM and GPU. The Wii U has, effectively, twice the RAM available to games that the Xbox 360 and the PS3 each have. And we hear much praise of the GPU.

"The Wii U is a nice console to work with because it's got so much RAM in comparison [to the PS3 and Xbox 360]," another Wii U developer, who wished to remain anonymous, told us. "For E3 we simply dumped the whole game into memory and never once used the disc after the content was loaded from it."

It is the RAM in combination with the GPU that means Wii U games have the potential to outshine Xbox 360 and PS3 games. Indeed, according to one source, the Wii U version of his company's game will be "the smoothest console version".

"We're a GPU-heavy game," the source continued. "Wii U has a powerful GPU with more oomph than the rivals - and is more modern in architecture and shader support, which may come in handy later on.

"The CPU on the other hand is a different question. We are not limited by it but some other games might suffer from it. Still, because of the GPU, I expect most multi-platform games to look the best on Wii U, even if the difference might not be huge sometimes."

The mention of the Wii U's CPU raised our eyebrow - as it has done for many developers we've spoken to. While its clock speed remains private, most developers agree it is lower than the clock speed offered by the PS3 and Xbox 360's CPUs - disappointing for many.

oh look,we have more RAM

[Joe Molotov]

So they couldn't even get their new triple-core Broadway up to 3.2ghz? Sad.

[Tasty]

Clock speeds.

[Joe Molotov]

Budget Dirtperson CPUs 

[Human Snorenado]

I really hope the nintards thump their chests as hard as they can for having the best looking versions of games for the year or so that statement can remain true. 

Still no EA support for this thing though?  Lack of Madden, etc is not going to make a successful console.  Ask the Dreamcast how that worked out.

[maxy]

So they couldn't even get their new triple-core Broadway up to 3.2ghz? Sad.

Broadway was never able to achieve high clock speeds(1 Ghz tops,I think).Nintendo had to enhance the chip to achieve higher clocks.
Rumors say that clock is much closer to Wii than 360 though.

Clock speeds.

No need to roll eyes.

The problem here is that people know Broadway performance.

[Van Cruncheon]

WII -- 2002's FINEST
WII U -- 2006's FINEST

nintendo hobogineering

[Van Cruncheon]

i think it's not actually broadway, but has support for broadway instructions -- or at least a mapping for broadway instructions routed to one of the three cores (on-die emulation)? that would put the clock at (a step max of) 1.8 ghz, not the 2.0 i heard

anyway, loltendo

[Brehvolution]

I'm surprised they didn't just go with a Celeron.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I really hope the nintards thump their chests as hard as they can for having the best looking versions of games for the year or so that statement can remain true. 

Still no EA support for this thing though?  Lack of Madden, etc is not going to make a successful console.  Ask the Dreamcast how that worked out.

Madden and Fifa WiiU were shown.  Last piece of the puzzle is when black ops 2 wii u gets shown, because treyarch has been heavily hinting at it short of a confirmation.

[EmCeeGrammar]

So they couldn't even get their new triple-core Broadway up to 3.2ghz? Sad.

Isn't this like arguing over how many bits a console is back in the day?  I've been told cpu whatevers don't mean much out of context.

[Himu]

That Shiggy story is pretty badass but it makes me wonder how Twilight Princess got released.

How dare you shit on Zelda's swan song?

[Cerveza mas fina]

So basicly this thing still won't be able to run CPU intensive last gen games like, SC2?

[Tasty]

So they couldn't even get their new triple-core Broadway up to 3.2ghz? Sad.

Isn't this like arguing over how many bits a console is back in the day?  I've been told cpu whatevers don't mean much out of context.

Clock speeds are about as irrelevant a spec as you can get. What matters is the actual CPU, not what it's clocked at.

Which in the Wii U's case, is probably a fairly weak processor, but the amount of GHz has little to do with it.

[Himu]

My take on Nintendo:

more rhythm tengoku for portables, please. Also, put the original gba RT on 3ds virtual console, translate it in English, have it up for when I pick up a 3ds for STM4.

[archie4208]

i think it's not actually broadway, but has support for broadway instructions -- or at least a mapping for broadway instructions routed to one of the three cores (on-die emulation)? that would put the clock at (a step max of) 1.8 ghz, not the 2.0 i heard

anyway, loltendo

But how many Whimsies Per Second can it process?