Author Topic: Vita Thread  (Read 804554 times)

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bork

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2580 on: June 20, 2012, 05:28:53 PM »
Maybe if Sony stops treating it like the red headed step child and like an actual product, I will get a vita. It all depends on the next few months and what games are announced for the system. I'm not like you people who buy 300 dollar systems with no games and then bitch where the games are at. I've only done that once and with the Wii.

$300?   ???

No games?   ??? ???

Didn't most of us who bought this thing at launch end up with a nice chunk of games, from just the launch alone?  I currently have 13 games.  It's still a better system than the 3DS in my book.

But I know- doom n' gloom, dead system, etc. etc.  Carry on!
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2581 on: June 20, 2012, 05:44:34 PM »
is it 300 for the 3g version or something? And few games on the horizon, Lyte Edge.
IYKYK

Takao

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2582 on: June 20, 2012, 05:48:07 PM »
Buying the 3G version just makes Hirai's wallet bigger. Don't bother with that one.

Shaka Khan

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2583 on: June 20, 2012, 05:56:29 PM »
Truth. I only bit the 3G model thanks to Lockerzzz ($250 for 3G/8GB/Super Stardust) otherwise I would never consider it. The 3G so far has been useless.
Unzip

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2584 on: June 20, 2012, 07:15:01 PM »
It's a minimum $270 plus tax for wifi system + 4GB memory card. Around here that's $289 total, so yeah, pretty close to $300 before you ever play your first game on it.
sup

Bebpo

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2585 on: June 20, 2012, 07:22:12 PM »
The system is too expensive for being a pure game machine portable in today's market.  The UI sucks, the internet connectivity is pretty bad since you can't just always be online like a console.  The future release list is pretty empty and the outlook for the system is questionable. 

Those are some valid concerns.


Otoh, there are a number of good titles available that look good, play well, and are a lot of fun.  If you're a fighting game fan the system is a no brainer since it's already getting packed with fighters with the same onilne play as consoles, so you can play it if you're away from home and have wi-fi signal.  Gravity Rush, Uncharted, Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, Lumines, are all original titles already out and there are some solid ports and superior 3DS versions of stuff out & coming.  You can buy it and have fun with it for a couple of months at this point with the software lineup, but yeah, it's going to be lacking for this first year until more stuff hits.  If you want to play Persona 4 director's cut that's probably a good meaty game as well.

I wouldn't recommend Himuro get one now, or really recommend anyone get one now.  But in another 6-12 months if there's a price drop and stuff like P4P, Good People Die, Ys4, Soul Sacrifice, and hopefully other unannounced games are out and in English, it should be worth it then.

Purple Filth

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2586 on: June 20, 2012, 07:33:40 PM »
Waiting until the end of the year tbh. Always have been
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 07:37:37 PM by Purple Filth »

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2587 on: June 20, 2012, 07:38:49 PM »
I totally would not have paid that much for it in cash. I sold my 360 and games to a friend, and traded a PSP + games + 2 memory sticks when GS had that extra $25 hardware trade promotion. I ended up just paying the tax, and the cost of an 8GB memory card out of pocket.

At $199 with a 4GB packed in, it would be a solid deal for the hardware, competitive with the 3DS for what you're getting.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 07:40:24 PM by Dr. Feelbad »
sup

Eric P

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2588 on: June 20, 2012, 08:10:38 PM »

Didn't most of us who bought this thing at launch end up with a nice chunk of games, from just the launch alone?  I currently have 13 games.  It's still a better system than the 3DS in my book.


5 Vita games so far

spoiler (click to show/hide)
and like 13 PSP games
[close]
Tonya

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2589 on: June 20, 2012, 08:33:23 PM »
Other than what Bebpo said, a problem with the Vita in Japan is that it doesn't replace the PSP.   Sony should've learned from Nintendo and made a version with full backwards compatibility.  Either a thicker model with a UMD drive or an external contraption that clamps on the back.

I'm not even sure what model I have.  I think it's the 3G version.  I only bought two games (Shinobido 2 and Gravity Daze) for it.  I don't regret it because I really like the hardware.  I mean, I own every iteration of most portable gaming systems.  It's a sickness.  But I wouldn't recommend the Vita to anyone who's looking into it for specific games.  Except for Ys and DJ Max, every game I'm looking forward to are multiplatform games or of questionable quality.

Taking a break from eulogizing the Vita, here's some mech game called Assault Gunners. There's a demo on Japanese PSN (allegedly...I don't feel like going through that whole account switching process).


Bebpo

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2590 on: June 20, 2012, 08:38:10 PM »
I wonder if that guy who made the XBIG mech title that was $2 and kind of lolz but at least had a solid foundation got hired by Marvelous to take some money and staff and beef it up to PSN/XBLA $15 title.  It looks pretty similar but with a big graphical jump.

demi

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2591 on: June 20, 2012, 09:36:57 PM »
Maybe if Sony stops treating it like the red headed step child and like an actual product, I will get a vita. It all depends on the next few months and what games are announced for the system. I'm not like you people who buy 300 dollar systems with no games and then bitch where the games are at. I've only done that once and with the Wii.

$300?   ???

No games?   ??? ???

Didn't most of us who bought this thing at launch end up with a nice chunk of games, from just the launch alone?  I currently have 13 games.  It's still a better system than the 3DS in my book.

But I know- doom n' gloom, dead system, etc. etc.  Carry on!

You buy like every shitty game though.
fat

DCharlieJP

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2592 on: June 20, 2012, 09:58:19 PM »
Quote
Didn't most of us who bought this thing at launch end up with a nice chunk of games, from just the launch alone?  I currently have 13 games.  It's still a better system than the 3DS in my book.

Currently :

@field
A Men
Army Corps of Hell
AR Combat Digi Q
Asphalt Injection
BlazBlue
Disgaea 3
Dungeon Hunter
Dynasty Warriors Next
Escape Plan
Everybody's Golf 6
Fifa Soccer
Fish ON
F1 2011
Gravity Rush
Gundam Seed
Hustle Kings
Lego Harry Potter
Little King Story
Little Deviants
Lord of Apocalypse
Lumines
MGS HD
Michael Jackson
Mahjong Fight Club
MLB 12 the Show
Modnation
Mortal Kombat
Motorstorm : RC
Ninja Gaiden
Persona 4
Plant v zomb
Pro Baseball spirits
Ragnarok Odyssey
Rayman Origins
Reality Fighters
Resistance
Ridge Racer
Pure Chess
Samurai + Dragon
Shinobido 2
Star Drone Extended
Sumioni
Super Stardust
Surge Concerto
Tales from Space :MBA
Tales of Innocence R
The Pinball Arcade
Treasures of MOntezuma Blitz
Touch My Katamari
Ultimate MvC
Uncharted
Unit 13
Virtua Tennis 4
Wipeout 2048
Zero Escape: Good People die


Shit handheld, no games.
O=X

Cormacaroni

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2593 on: June 20, 2012, 10:03:33 PM »
DCharlie's pledges of austerity ring as hollow as the Greeks'
vjj

bork

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2594 on: June 20, 2012, 10:17:34 PM »
Maybe if Sony stops treating it like the red headed step child and like an actual product, I will get a vita. It all depends on the next few months and what games are announced for the system. I'm not like you people who buy 300 dollar systems with no games and then bitch where the games are at. I've only done that once and with the Wii.

$300?   ???

No games?   ??? ???

Didn't most of us who bought this thing at launch end up with a nice chunk of games, from just the launch alone?  I currently have 13 games.  It's still a better system than the 3DS in my book.

But I know- doom n' gloom, dead system, etc. etc.  Carry on!

You buy like every shitty game though.

I think you have me confused with DCharlie.   :P
ど助平

demi

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2595 on: June 20, 2012, 10:23:43 PM »
He's senile tho. You have your girth and youth about you.
fat

bork

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2596 on: June 20, 2012, 10:33:03 PM »
 :lol
ど助平

pilonv1

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2597 on: June 20, 2012, 11:14:15 PM »
I don't know whether that title or Reality Fighters is more insulting.
itm

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2598 on: June 20, 2012, 11:28:28 PM »
i mean, i get you're just listing the games you own, dc, but you really ought to edit lists like that - if you won't do it for your own dignity, think of your son.  he's going to grow up and someday read that his dad bought michael jackson, mahjong, and little deviants.  and he's going to ask you about them.  and what are you going to say with those pleading, hopeful eyes looking at you, dc?  how will you preserve the integrity of the family name?

dog

Cormacaroni

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2599 on: June 20, 2012, 11:31:46 PM »
I imagine the convo will go like 'listen son, it was this or send you to a good school'
vjj

Joe Molotov

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2600 on: June 20, 2012, 11:32:06 PM »
i mean, i get you're just listing the games you own, dc, but you really ought to edit lists like that - if you won't do it for your own dignity, think of your son.  he's going to grow up and someday read that his dad bought michael jackson, mahjong, and little deviants.  and he's going to ask you about them.  and what are you going to say with those pleading, hopeful eyes looking at you, dc?  how will you preserve the integrity of the family name?

Hey, at least he didn't buy those $40 Gameloft iOS ports...oh wait.  :-\
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DCharlieJP

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2601 on: June 20, 2012, 11:36:42 PM »
Quote
I imagine the convo will go like 'listen son, it was this or send you to a good school'

or - as it turns out - both :P

Hell - the fecking bus charge alone dwarfs any vita spend stupidity
O=X

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2602 on: June 21, 2012, 12:11:53 AM »
RE: Metal Gear HD Collection

SUBJECT: Terrible Camera Angles in Japanese Games

MESSAGE:

WTF

*END OF MESSAGE*

sup

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2603 on: June 21, 2012, 12:16:05 AM »
RE: Metal Gear HD Collection

SUBJECT: Terrible Camera Angles in Japanese Games

MESSAGE:

WTF

*END OF MESSAGE*

These games came out like 10 years ago dude

that's like asking why in Doom 1 you can't rotate the mouse in a 360 degree.
IYKYK

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2604 on: June 21, 2012, 12:18:48 AM »
pretty sure 10 years ago people still had common sense
sup

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2605 on: June 21, 2012, 12:21:16 AM »
What game are you playing?

Metal Gear Solid 2 was made for the overhead angle in mind. Its camera is fine. MGS3 is a different case, but even then, MGS HD comes with MGS: Subsistence, and that has two camera modes. If it's Metal Gear Solid 1 (is that on the vita collection?) then it's a case of "this game came out in 1998" and even that's fine aside from the shooting.

???

IYKYK

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2606 on: June 21, 2012, 12:21:40 AM »
i am enjoying it, but holy fuck the japanese just do not get controls in 3D games

"i think it would be best to go with a method where the player rotates both sticks in a counterclockwise direction to move forward, and in opposite directions to move backwards"

"that's an excellent idea, shoji, very natural"

sup

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2607 on: June 21, 2012, 12:23:59 AM »
MGS2

and no, the camera angles suck
sup

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2608 on: June 21, 2012, 12:24:20 AM »
Depends on the developer and game. It's not like all western games have great controls either. For comparison, play GTA3 and try to shoot someone (NOT on the pc version btw). 10 years ago developers were still getting used to 3d shooting.

MGS2 controls are smooth like butter. :drool
IYKYK

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2609 on: June 21, 2012, 12:25:36 AM »
sure, if you like spreading butter with your feet
sup

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2610 on: June 21, 2012, 12:26:20 AM »
:lol

I can't argue with you since I haven't played MGS2 since 2004. I never had an issue with MGS2 controls though, it's pretty smooth. Now MGS3? THAT has a learning curve.
IYKYK

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2611 on: June 21, 2012, 12:35:04 AM »
i am enjoying the silly storyline, it's godawful and makes me laugh
sup

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2612 on: June 21, 2012, 12:45:34 AM »
MGS2 is fucking hilarious
IYKYK

Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2613 on: June 21, 2012, 01:07:16 AM »
All Metal Gear games are laughably shit.
ǚ

Himu

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2614 on: June 21, 2012, 01:10:54 AM »
Not really, no.
IYKYK

Sho Nuff

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2615 on: June 21, 2012, 01:31:30 AM »
I'm having an old skool PSP Party as I'm updating my CFW's and throwing all DAT EMU onto my 16gb stick in anticipation of a vacay back to Pennsylvania. This hardware is awesome, I can't believe how old it is. Remember when 6 hours of battery life was considered shitty? HAW HAW HAW

Damian79

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2616 on: June 26, 2012, 01:18:37 AM »
I have always hated the 3ds analog nub, but just tried out the psv's analog sticks, i found it rather uncomforable to use, feels too small for me.  Am i the only one who feels this way?

Bebpo

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2617 on: June 26, 2012, 01:47:54 AM »
They're bad but you get used to them and they're the least bad of the PSP/3DS.

Doesn't say much for them though.  Monkey Ball demo is damn near impossible on it because it's too sensitive.

Damian79

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2618 on: June 26, 2012, 02:04:39 AM »
yeah the 3ds nub is horrendous.

archnemesis

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2619 on: June 26, 2012, 02:12:22 AM »
I'm pretty pleased with the quality of the sticks on the Vita, but the right stick does get in the way a lot.

Bebpo

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2620 on: June 26, 2012, 02:27:22 AM »
I wonder if it's even possible to make an analog stick on a handheld that doesn't suck or get in the way.

I say take a DS3, put a screen on it and bam you have the perfect handheld.  Sure it's a little big, but the vita is already big.  I really wish they would just put a full size controller on a handheld.

cool breeze

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2621 on: June 26, 2012, 02:52:38 AM »
I think the Vita sticks are fine.  Compared to other analog sticks there isn't much range and they're tiny, but it's a big improvement over analog sliders.  First time I used a PSP I kept wondering why Sony didn't go for an analog stick ball thing like the Saturn 3D pad or Tapwave Zodiac.  Still, I don't mind the 3DS slider as much as I did the PSP one.  It's in a natural position and just feels better.  I just wish Nintendo and Sony added some more grip, like a raised ring or dots.

Another thing is that the buttons are a bit small.  I feel that more than the stick size.

Also, Sony needs to continue with the d-pad design.

Takao

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2622 on: June 26, 2012, 10:20:21 PM »
Yeah, Vita d-pad is best d-pad I've used in a long while.

tiesto

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2623 on: June 26, 2012, 11:08:12 PM »
I've never had a problem with Metal Gear's controls and prefer the fixed top-down camera... I'm generally a fan of games with fixed camera angles over games where you have to micromanage the camera yourself though.
^_^

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2624 on: June 26, 2012, 11:24:53 PM »
i remember really well among the blanket of praise for MGS2 upon its release there was the start of grumbling about the camera/controls.  that grumbling got pretty loud with MGS3, which is probably why they started experimenting with the camera a bit in subsistence.

I remember Tim Rogers' insanely long MGS2 review:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Metal Gear Solid 2 is highly illogical.

And I love it. In the end, as many said, it's just plain laughable. And . . . to a certain deeper extent, creepy as hell.

As a fourteen-year-old with an IQ as high as my weight (I was a big kid), I found myself confused by the movie "Patriot Games."

I mean -- what the hell's going on now? There are so many turnarounds -- all of them logical -- and, to a point, it's ridiculous. All these movies about terrorists and nuclear weapons and/or terrorists with nuclear weapons . . . they're so serious they're ridiculous.

As a twenty-two-year-old living in a run-down apartment in northern Tokyo, I was confused beyond belief by the last two-thirds of Metal Gear Solid 2.

To quote Cypher in "The Matrix," what a mind-job.

I wasn't sure I liked the game.

And now, I'm hoping Metal Gear Solid 3 features a battle against the ninja-ghost of Gray Fox atop a bullet train moving toward an alien landing site somewhere in the Yukon.

How did I get from one extreme to the other? Simply, I played the game again, not skipping the plot sequences. I reread some modern Japanese literature. I found a picture of Yoko Ono in an old Rolling Stone magazine, cut it out, and taped it to my wall. I sat down, then, looked at Yoko, and thought.

In several interviews, Kojima said he got the idea for Metal Gear Solid 2's story when he read an article about the lawsuit against Napster. The idea that the US Government could seek to prevent the world from sharing music with one another struck him as one step closer to a science-fiction world of mind-control. At the same time he got this idea, he was playing his son's friend's copy of Pokémon Silver. Hideo Kojima, I hear, has one of every Pokémon on every possible version of Pokémon. Most of them are on level 100.

Metal Gear Solid 2 took so long to develop, Kojima says, because he was playing Pokémon Crystal about six hours a day. He called it his "part-time job." This might or might not have been a joke.

Now, is this the kind of guy we want making our videogames?

I mean, he sits around and . . . plays videogames all day!

. . . Exactly.

Lover of the game that I am, I’ll admit: Metal Gear Solid 2’s story is so full of holes it's like a string of bad jokes.

Yet, I consider it about 100 times more "literary" than the most classy RPG -- more than Final Fantasy X, with its surprisingly mature handling of father-son themes.

Metal Gear Solid 2 is about taking the conventions of videogames and turning them around. It rips open the spy-thriller genre and puts it back together from the inside-out.

For crying out loud, one of the people monitoring our hero on his mission is his fiancée, who won't stop talking to him about movies they watched together. Sappy piano music plays in the background.

Electronic Gaming Monthly printed a picture in their review. I bought that EGM for ten bucks at a foreign bookstore in Tokyo, and read that review.

"Sappy piano music actually plays in the background during this romantic interlude. Ugh," the caption reads.

I paid ten bucks, I was thinking, to read a review from people that didn’t "get" the joke. Sure, they gave it a high enough score. This isn’t about the score, though. This is about the story, or, more specifically, the wrongness of the bashing thereof. So I ask a question:

Am I the only person who got it?

Am I the only person who found the game to be bold and risky? Am I the only person who thought, "If Haruki Murakami wrote a spy-thriller, this is what it would be like?"

Kojima has made the first postmodern videogame.

Okay, so Earthbound was the first postmodern videogame. Well, Mother was, if you want to get all technical.

Nobody argues with Earthbound. They know it's supposed to be wacky and illogical.

People argue about Metal Gear Solid 2. They don’t know that it's right in the same boat as Earthbound.

That's what makes it so damned brilliant.

Metal Gear Solid 2 is not a departure from the first one. The first one was lucky to not be too postmodern for popularity. Kojima is only now letting his more literary tendencies emerge.

Why would I call the first MGS "pleasantly postmodern"? Let’s take a look: it's a semi-realistic military thriller about terrorists with nuclear weapons and hostages -- with the curious additions of the prototype for the world's first robotic tank, the world's most powerful psychic, a giant Eskimo shaman, and a cyborg ninja.

All the sequel does is raise that bar a little higher.

Japanese superstar novelist Haruki Murakami once spoke on the creativity of the Japanese people. As much as I would have liked to, I didn’t hear him speak about it in person. So let me paraphrase his main ideas:

"The Japanese are not, by nature, creative. Those Japanese who are creative are quite creative. Those who want to be creative because they don’t want a job in a company can only imitate the truly creative."

Look at any of numerous Gundam(n) clones. Like Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon, and Monster Rancher (the TV shows) compared to Pokémon.

In a way, Sonic the Hedgehog to Mario.
Legend of Dragoon to Final Fantasy VII.
The original Mother to Dragon Quest . . . ?

Mother set the mark for postmodern games. It was obviously postmodern. Mother is a Yoko Ono teacup-cut-in-half. It’s Takako Minekawa's song "Kangaroo Pocket Calculator," in which the only lyrics are: "47 is a magical number. 47 plus 2 equals 49. 47 times 2 equals 94. 49 and 94. 94 and 49. The relationship between 47 and 2: It's . . . magic."

We hear this, and think: "Funny. Cute."

Metal Gear Solid 2 is another level of postmodernity. Metal Gear Solid 2 is Yasuharu Konishi’s seven-minute remix of the one-minute "Son of Godzilla" march. For four minutes, we hear a Brazilian woman narrate a Godzilla movie in Portuguese, with ambient sounds in the background. For three minutes, we hear the Godzilla march, techno beats laid down in the background.

We hear this, and think: "What the hell?"

There’s something . . . wrong with the picture. You don't understand the motives. Maybe you’re not supposed to.

I won’t dare say that Metal Gear Solid 2 was "flawlessly crafted." Its story was not "well-constructed." It wasn’t supposed to be.

That’s the nature of the postmodern: to attack the societal/literary dogma as it has been written since the beginning of time: "All stories must make sense, all love must be true, all endings must be happy and easy to understand."

MGS is not easy to understand. It gets downright bizarre. It’ll make you throw up your hands and scream, "What the hell?"

Metal Gear Solid 2 in the beginning:

A lone vigilante spy jumping off a bridge, boarding an ocean liner, and beginning a mission.

Metal Gear Solid 2 in the end:

A giant robot, a super spy in chains, a guy with a sword, Doctor Octopus, a lady with an enormous gun, all standing on the deck of a ship within viewing distance of the New York City skyline.

In all honesty, it was a little too X-men-like for my tastes.

Still, confusion didn’t make me dislike the game. People who dislike Metal Gear Solid 2 because they don’t understand it remind me of my dad. He can’t stand to watch a subtitled movie.

They remind me of some of the students I taught English to in Japan. Afraid to make mistakes. Afraid of what they don’t understand.

The postmodern attacks people who are afraid of what they don’t understand. It says, "Hey, you! If you hate this game so much, why are you still playing?"

(Okay, so the gameplay is perfect. We’ve already covered that.)

One could say you’re still playing because there are individual elements strewn throughout the mess that intrigue you.

Such individual scenes that got me. Fighting Vamp -- a vampire, for god's sake, a vampire -- sniping, taking down the harrier. Fighting Fatman -- a bomb-happy fat guy on rollerblades, for God’s sake, rollerblades. At those times, I was in the action movie.

The whole scene with the parrot. The scene you hate most. The first time you watched it, you couldn’t turn away, could you? The confession of semi-incest (his stepmother, people -- stepmother). The eerie pixilated flashbacks to the first game. The romantic interludes . . .

TURN THE GAME CONSOLE OFF NOW!!!

This is modern Japanese literature, people.

As Japanese game developers get the power to make games better than movies, you can bet about 25% of them are going to be like this.

I'd suggest you start reading up. Haruki Murakami is a good place to start. Go to Borders, grab A Wild Sheep Chase, and see if it grabs you.

Then again, there’s an all-important question. A negative answer could prove me both wrong and stupid. That question is this: Did Kojima intend to make the game this way?

I'm guessing Kojima is one of those rare "creative" Japanese people. He's a Haruki Murakami, an Akira Toriyama, a Yu Suzuki, a . . . dare I say it . . . a Shigeru Miyamoto.

In case you can’t tell, my position is this:
Kojima intended Metal Gear Solid 2 to be as wacky as it was.

Here’s my evidence:

Haruki Murakami says that his novel The Wind-up Bird Chronicle, started with one idea: a guy in his kitchen, cooking spaghetti. Where it went in the following 607 pages, well, he didn’t know until he started writing. That’s freeform postmodernity, and it works, when you’re feeling wacky.

I’ve written stories like that, and they turn out just fine. One of them even won me a scholarship to a writer’s conference a while back. So these Wind-up Bird-style setups are fine for a story or a novel, where one person is responsible.

They don’t work in group situations. They don’t work in journalism projects where you want to do a breakdown of the morality models of reality TV shows and your partners are three sorority girls who want to do an "exposé" of lingerie ads -- "They're made for men! Look at them! They show girls wearing lingerie!'

{ . . . My partners were named Holly, Chrissy, and Angie.}

Something tells me, seeing as more than a dozen people were behind Metal Gear Solid 2, that the postmodernity was actually quite thought-out.

Then again, Kojima, being the big cheese around his team, can do more of what he wants than I could in a room of sorority girls with big water bottles.

They love water bottles. They love taking big sips, making that cracking plastic sound, whenever I try to say something.

That's another thing altogether, though.

Ahem. Postmodernity.

Look at Shigesato Itoi, the producer of Mother and Mother 2.

The postmodernity in his case came from satire. "Satire? In a videogame?" people were thinking.

Metal Gear Solid 2's postmodernity is in its structure.

See, Snake is a loner until the end of MGS1. Whether Meryl lives or Otacon lives, he's not alone at the end.

In Metal Gear Solid 2, we see a guy who's a loner in a different way. Yes, Snake is always there -- and maybe it was Kojima’s intention to make Snake even more beloved by not letting us control him. Maybe it was Kojima’s intention to make us feel the great difference between the two characters. Snake is a hardened military stereotype. Raiden is just a guy.

Raiden reminds me of the two main characters of the film "Chungking Express," by Wong Kar-wai.

Remember when Rose says to Raiden (paraphrase): "I've been to your apartment. Your room is empty. No pictures, no posters -- just a bed."

And Raiden defends himself, "I only use that room for sleeping."

Kojima is saying something about something with Metal Gear Solid 2, and saying it with such boldness that maybe you don’t notice it.

And what is he saying this "something" about?

The US military?

Sure, I'll buy that. Hideo Kojima's done his share of reading. And I'm not just talking Tom Clancy.

Is he saying this "something" about US Special Forces agents? Navy SEALS? That they’re the kind of people to have empty rooms used "just for sleeping"?

Sure, I'll buy that, too.

However, seeing as Metal Gear Solid 2 is just a recreation of Metal Gear Solid, which is, essentially, just a videogame, it's safer to say this:

Snake is a person.

In Metal Gear Solid, we played as this person called Snake.

In Metal Gear Solid 2, we play as Raiden, a newcomer, a loner with an empty bedroom back home, who's currently going through a training mission based on the events of another game.

Raiden -- Jack -- is a videogame character.

Does the description of a "videogame character" fit Jack?

If Jack is a videogame character, who are the "Patriots"? The players? What does this all have to do with Napster?

More importantly, if a videogame character had a bedroom, what would it look like?

What does Mario's bedroom look like?

What does Sonic the Hedgehog's bedroom look like?

For that matter, what does a real person’s bedroom need to look like?

Why have posters on your wall at all?

I found this train of thought especially profound. At the time I played Metal Gear Solid 2, I was living in a Tokyo apartment the size of my closet back in Indianapolis; my one room was big enough for a futon and a nine-inch television on the floor.

I had nothing on the walls except for the Muji price sticker that was came on my pillow, which I saved because . . . I don’t know why I saved it. I do things like that sometimes. I lead a postmodern life. Playing Metal Gear Solid 2, to me, mirrors sleeping -- dreaming -- in an empty room. "Dreaming in an empty room," then, is what I’ll call my model.

There are two aspects to dreaming in an empty room:
1. The dream
2. The empty room you see immediately after waking up

Neither the dream nor the empty room is fully "real." The "dream" isn’t real because we’re in control, and it feels like we’re not. The "empty room" isn’t real because we can put whatever we want in it. Something just doesn’t feel real without personal touches. That’s Rose’s complaint in Metal Gear Solid 2. She thinks posters or personal effects will make Jack more "real."

In this way, we can compare Metal Gear Solid 2 to Ico. We can say that the nature of reality is established in neither Metal Gear Solid 2 nor Ico. Ico reminds me of the "End of the World" section of Haruki Murakami’s novel Hard-boiled Wonderland and the End of the World.

The "nature of reality" is not established in Murakami's "End of the World" -- a man in a village into which unicorns are being herded every night, where he and a girl have to "read old dreams" out of skulls to discover his lost "self," his lost "dreams," and his lost shadow, literally cut off his body when he first enters.

This story is weaved into the story of the "Hard-boiled Wonderland," in which a futuristic accountant evades gangsters and kappa demons beneath the Tokyo subway system, checks out books from a pretty librarian, and spends his last day on earth watching laundry that isn't his in a Laundromat.

"Hard-boiled Wonderland" is rife with little details -- gorilla-sized gangsters, kappas, a fat girl's overly pink laundry, the narrator's shattered whisky collection.

"The End of the World" is very spare, with a narrator who speaks in short sentences without contractions.

In Japanese literature, there are generally two types of postmodernity: "Hard-boiled Wonderlands," and "The Ends of the World."

I'll call them, respectively, "dreams" and "empty rooms." Which may or may not be ironic -- the "End of the World" segment of Hard-boiled Wonderland and the End of the World is actually the narrator’s dream-world. In my model, it’s an "empty room." "Hard-boiled Wonderland," the novel’s reality, is what I’ll call a "dream."

By this model:
Metal Gear Solid 2 is a "dream."
Ico is an "empty room."
They are both postmodern masterpieces in their own right.

Now, if your dreams are more like Ico than Metal Gear Solid 2, well, more power to you. The term "dream" doesn't apply to your dreams, or anyone's dreams, in particular. When using a term to describe something postmodern, expect the term to be used postmodernly.

The empty room is a clean slate. You can put anything in the empty room.

Even a horned boy leading a princess through a castle. Even a language that doesn’t exist.

A dream, however, is always grounded in reality. Dreams have . . . well, not rules. Not constructs. Not even "logic." All they need to keep us from waking up is a sense of the real.

Dreams have terrorists. Dreams have presidents, hostage situations.

Ever dreamed you witnessed a bank robbery? I have.

Dreams, sometimes, even have terrorist/hostage situations involving vampires.

Dreams mix the real, and the unreal. Dreams mix whatever is in our minds. We can drift off to sleep in a recliner while half-reading the Lord of the Rings and half-listening to the NBC nightly news. Tom Brokaw can be talking about a hostage situation in Israel one second, and a breakthrough in health care the next. We can fall asleep, and hear his voice say: "Ninjas officially kidnapped the president at six o'clock this morning." That happened to me, once. (Except I wasn't actually reading Lord of the Rings.)

Do your dreams resolve, without fail, before you wake up?

Mine don’t.

Ico is a boy placed in an empty room. He is a videogame character that doesn’t know he's a videogame character. We're not supposed to think of him as a videogame character. He's Ico.

The game absorbs us. I've heard lots of people say, "I forgot I was playing a game."

Well!

Metal Gear Solid 2 reflects on itself so much we start thinking, "This is f***ing ridiculous!"

Ever had a weird dream? Like, a really weird dream?

Ever dream you're on an elevator creeping up the side of a skyscraper, and wake up when a helicopter shoots out the glass, and you jump, and plummet toward the street?

I say you always wake up before you fall because your mind has no memories of death, so you can't recreate it. Our dreams use pieces of cognition we don't know they're using.

Just Metal Gear Solid 2 uses spy-thriller clichés, action-movie scenes, and ripped-from-the-headlines terrorist activities to tell you a story.

"Well, it’s not a story I want to hear!" you may exclaim.

Okay. How interesting do you want your spy-thriller to be?

"Metal Gear Solid 2 is an abomination!" some people said.

What did you want, "surprising twists"? You wanted "secrets"?

Well, you got a whole hell of a lot of secrets, didn’t you?

Recall Otacon’s "confession" scene. Recall the parrot. And then think:

Do you ever dream you’re a cowboy/gas station attendant in a futuristic desert, who ends up getting sexually harassed in a job interview and forced to have sex with the female CEO, who luckily happens to be Michelle Yeoh?

Do you ever dream that you cry, and run away from Michelle Yeoh when she asks you to have sex with her?

Well, sometimes the postmodern shows us stuff we don’t want -- or aren't ready -- to see.

Like Otacon crying over his little step-sister's dead body because he had sex with her mom. Right in the middle of a terrorist-hostage-nuclear weapon-situation.

Art imitates life, they say? Maybe it does.

Someone tell me "Sleepless in Seattle" imitates their life.

Someone else tell me "Sleepless in Seattle" is art.

The postmodern is concerned with something different. It's not logic. Leave logic to Final Fantasy VII and Chrono Cross [that was a joke]. Postmodernity doesn’t care for logic. It cares for something else.

I could explain it. However, that would involve my letting out the big secret.

Okay, so I don’t really know what postmodernity cares for. That’s not the point, though. The point is that this entire theory of "Dreaming in an Empty Room" might seem like pure conjecture to a lot of people. Most people, I gather, will brush this theory off. They’ll say, "I still think it was an abomination. The story sucked. It could have been so much better. 'Literary'? It wasn’t supposed to be literary; it was supposed to be a game."

I've come across these people in person, and I've tried to explain things to them. These are the people who say the "story" was "an abomination," and then say that it wasn't "supposed to be literary." These are also the people who are still talking today about Zack and Cloud’s relationship in Final Fantasy VII. These are the people who work long and hard to try to get their loved ones or friends to understand that gaming is a legitimate form of entertainment.

I'm confused, fellow gamers, that you want games to get recognition as legitimate entertainment, yet can't accept that they can also have artistic aspirations. Doesn't this run counter to man's tendency to hail as art what he doesn't understand? What would Mark Twain have to say about all this? Anyone remember "The King's Camelopard" from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn?

Hell, if Mark Twain were around today, he’d probably be making games that make money. That people flame other people about on message boards. That everyone plays, and no one really, truly understands.

With the current wave of consoles, we're going to see a lot more games made by a lot more people, many of them in Japan, many of them elsewhere. We haven’t yet seen the first Mark Twain of videogames -- though Mother 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2 come close. Sadly, a lot of people are not particularly waiting for this genius designer's arrival.

Do you think people in Murasaki Shikibu's time complained to her about the world’s "first novel," The Tale of Genji, saying "Books are supposed to be fun, not making all these subtle comments about the politics of the Heian court!"

Games are a young form of entertainment. The children who grew up with games are now adults. Many of them are as blind to the idea of the artistic videogame as our parents are to Eminem, as our parents' parents were to The Beatles, as The Beatles' fans were blind to the conceptuality of Yoko Ono. God bless the children of today, for seeing the genius of Pokémon. One of them is the first Tolstoy of videogames.

That, however, is for another day's installment.

Here, at the end of this ridiculous, postmodern "editorial," I’d like to take a stance: I am a strong advocate of New School Gaming. Yes, I can beat Gradius III in one life. Yes, my favorite game is Super Mario Bros. 3. Yes, I do play Street Fighter II Turbo Hyperfighting and Gunstar Heroes at least twice a week. Yes, I like Landstalker more than Final Fantasy X. That doesn’t matter. I have hope for the future. Maybe more hope than you have.

Or maybe I just have a thing for the Colonel.

TURN THE GAME CONSOLE OFF NOW!





Postscript:

Since writing this article, I have endured many long adventures, played a demo of Metal Gear Solid 3, and met Hideo Kojima. I interviewed him for an article in Wired, a fine and noble magazine. The interview will be published within a few months of your reading or rereading this. Around the time of my interview with Mr. Kojima, I took this article down, fearing that he might read it. Maybe I was fearing having made a mistake of some sort. Well, I was able to present my ideas to Kojima, who confirmed that I am pretty much right about why he made Metal Gear Solid 2. His goal was, as he explained to me, "To make a videogame that told a story that could only be told in a videogame." His first and foremost goal, he claims, was to "Use the medium," which is, as he put it, "inherently postmodern." The goal of the story the game sought to tell was to tell that story to the people of today, with no illusions of its surviving decades or centuries to leave an impact on a distant society. Even so, the gameplay, as he explains, becomes increasingly more challenging in such a way as to make the experience something round and fulfilling even to the player who skips all of the long, drawn-out dialogue sequences. The gameplay, says the man, was engaging merely because it could not be not engaging under his supervision. Kojima shared a few philosophies with me on what kinds of people make good game developers, and under his rubric, I am one of those people, which made me feel kind of nice.

Hideo Kojima claims to have never read Haruki Murakami's Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, though Japanese filmmaker Ryuhei Kitamura has been suggesting the book to Kojima since Metal Gear Solid 2 went on sale. Kojima himself likes to think that the game's was more inspired by Kobo Abe's Kangaroo Notebook than anything else. Which is funny, because I also mentioned a Japanese work of postmodern . . . artistic integrity with the word "Kangaroo" in its title in my original writing.

Thanks again.
[close]
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 11:26:43 PM by The Experiment »
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2625 on: June 26, 2012, 11:33:42 PM »
That's a whole lot of 'spergin.
sup

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2626 on: June 26, 2012, 11:34:54 PM »
That seems quite brief for Tim.
itm

Vizzys

  • green hair connoisseur
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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2627 on: June 26, 2012, 11:39:05 PM »
That seems quite brief for Tim.

i was about to post this
萌え~

pickle

  • Member
Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2628 on: June 27, 2012, 12:52:08 AM »
That seems quite brief for Tim.

Very brief.

Takao

  • Senior Member
Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2629 on: July 04, 2012, 11:51:38 PM »



Shaka Khan

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2630 on: July 04, 2012, 11:54:00 PM »
Whenever this thread gets bumped, I think maybe, just maybe... nope :fbm
Unzip

DCharlieJP

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2631 on: July 05, 2012, 01:50:49 AM »
Vita has , basically, been delayed until back end of 2013

and/or canned

that said - i think the same has happened to 3DS - market leader with NOWT :/

O=X

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2632 on: July 05, 2012, 02:43:55 AM »
Pale wing in edf3/2017 is great.  That was my complaint with the 360 version after EDF2. 

Who published EDF2017 and is there a chance they'll bring this one over?

Takao

  • Senior Member
Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2633 on: July 05, 2012, 03:48:11 AM »
Pale wing in edf3/2017 is great.  That was my complaint with the 360 version after EDF2. 

Who published EDF2017 and is there a chance they'll bring this one over?

D3's US division published it here. I'd say it's more unlikely to get localized than likely, but they have most of the game already translated, and someone I talk to on Twitterz from SCEA seemed pretty optimistic about it.

Sho Nuff

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2634 on: July 05, 2012, 04:33:18 AM »
The franchises that make me buy a console are Virtua Fighter, Daytona or EDF

THINKIN ABOUT IT NOW

Trent Dole

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2635 on: July 05, 2012, 10:49:45 PM »
This is just 2017 again though, which you've probably already played the shit out of. I know I have. :hyper
Hi

bork

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ど助平

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2637 on: July 07, 2012, 01:53:54 PM »
Vita has , basically, been delayed until back end of 2013

Can live with this.

Quote

and/or canned


This will be bad :(

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2638 on: July 09, 2012, 06:54:31 PM »
Mortal Kombat is pretty fun.  Story mode is handled really well.

People both over and under exaggerate about the graphics.  Alone the graphics good enough; combat is fast and smooth enough that you can't notice it.  But playing story mode it keeps jumping between prerendered scenes with the console assets and the Vita version and there's a very noticeable downgrade there.

Eric P

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Re: Vita thread
« Reply #2639 on: July 09, 2012, 07:12:38 PM »
there are some PS Vita games on the cheap at Amazon

lego harry potter is $13
hot shots is $20
mortal kombat is $30
dynasty warriors is $30
lego batman is $30
mlb the show is $30
disgea 3 is $30
rayman is $30
blazblue is $30
Tonya