Author Topic: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?  (Read 4875 times)

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AWESOM-O

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So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« on: July 27, 2011, 04:52:17 AM »
Watched this the other night at a friend's house.

I kinda liked it when it first came out, but goddamn, I never realized how much it fucking sucks.

The characters are like cardboard cut-outs from one of those fold-out castles that little girls play with. You've got a paralyzed marine; you know from the beginning that he's going to love running around and flying on dragons and shit. And of course he's going to fall in love with the native princess, and she's going to fall in love with him, even though she's betrothed to the most badass hunter in the tribe, and he's a member of the invading race using an artificial body to try and manipulate her people. And somehow the fact that he becomes an inanimate object every time he goes to sleep doesn't seem to bother anybody there.

The flight scenes were pretty cool, I guess, and so was the scene where the humans demolish the giant tree, but after that you get a literal Trail of Tears that's about as subtle as Bebpo's moves when he wants to kiss a girl, and the rest of the second act and the beginning of the third drag more than Himuro's dick. You finally get to the climactic battle, and it's decent enough, but the whole thing is resolved by the biggest deus-ex-machina I've ever seen in a film. It's so unsatisfying. It's like the battle didn't matter at all; they could have just chilled out and waited for the planet to wipe out the human forces, and a lot more of their people would have lived to laugh at the humans as they limped back to their ship.

You could probably recreate the entire film using clips from Pocahontas, Ferngully, and Dances with Wolves. We've seen this exact story before, and we've seen much better tellings of that story. It's like Cameron just stuck a bunch of tropes in a blender and filmed the result with some really high-tech cameras.

Battle Angel had better be some epic shit to erase the bad taste of this one.  :-\

Tasty

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 05:07:49 AM »
The worst part is that it isn't a bad movie, there's obvious potential but Cameron cared more about wanking off his cameras than wanking off his script, and it showed. It's not even so bad it's good. It's just... bland. Rote. A story that doesn't try to differentiate itself whatsoever except through the means with which it's conveyed.

A shame, because I was highly anticipating Cameron's return to sci-fi. Even watching the trailers I was thinking, "It's James Cameron, there has to be more to the movie than this... there has to be." But nope. It's as simple and shallow as it seems, and it doesn't help the trailers gave the whole damn movie away.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 05:12:09 AM »
It's not even a film, it's a tech demo.
010

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 05:22:36 AM »
Who was championing it over here again?

Reb

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 05:23:46 AM »
ugh
brb

pilonv1

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 05:34:21 AM »
Who was championing it over here again?

:rofl
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Tieno

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 06:18:05 AM »
no, it's not the worst blockbuster ever.
i

Herr Mafflard

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 06:41:57 AM »
no, it's not the worst blockbuster ever.

yep, Michael Bay has that class of film locked down.

EvilBoris

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 07:09:19 AM »
 still haven't seen it! though i've flipped through its art book sheepishly, some of those cg enviros looked impressive. the back-to-nature boilerplate looks fun to rag on but im sure every blockbuster released this year is worse.

chronovore

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 07:09:35 AM »
You could probably recreate the entire film using clips from Pocahontas, Ferngully, and Dances with Wolves. We've seen this exact story before, and we've seen much better tellings of that story. It's like Cameron just stuck a bunch of tropes in a blender and filmed the result with some really high-tech cameras.

In an odd coincidence, I was having this discussion with a co-worker yesterday. I think someone posted this in the main thread, but it's worth a re-post:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

What's really sad is to hear what he had planned, and what it actually became, DESPITE being given what seems like an entirely free hand.
http://www.chud.com/21969/project-880-the-avatar-that-almost-was/
Quote
For those who don’t want to read this all, some bullet points. Read the entire piece for in-depth description and analysis, but these bullet points are the main, stark differences between Project 880 and Avatar:

- Earth and its environmental problems are explored

- We see Josh Sully’s Avatar being born

- It’s revealed the Avatar program exists to train Na’vi to be an indigenous workforce for the Corporation, since it’s so expensive to send human workers

- There are more humans, including a bioethics officer on the take, a video journalist, a head of the Avatar program and a second military dickwad

- There is an Avatar controller who is burnt out because his Avatar died with him in it. He committed Avatar suicide because he had fallen in love with a Na’vi girl who had been killed by the military

- The Avatars have a Na’vi guide named N’Deh, who is sleeping with Grace

- Grace survives the soul transfer

- Josh Sully gains the Na’vi trust by being a member of the community. He also excels in a major hunt

- Josh Sully shows his leadership not by taming a dragon but by leading a raid on Hell’s Gate to rescue prisoners

- Josh Sully isn’t the only Na’vi to ride a big dragon

- Pandora is a living entity and it sees the humans as a virus; it has been mobilizing the plants and animals to attack all along because it wanted to force the humans out

- There is no unobtainium beneath Hometree. The military just wants to wipe out the local Na’vi to send a message to all the tribes that they must be obeyed.

- Some of the humans and the Avatar controllers rise up in the final big battle

- Josh Sully tells the Earth that Pandora will give any humans that return a disease that will wipe out humanity


Oblivion

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 07:15:07 AM »
Dunno if I'd say it was a 'bad' movie (even though I didn't particularly like it), but it sure as shit didn't deserve the record breaking success it did. :punch

pilonv1

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 07:15:57 AM »
no, it's not the worst blockbuster ever.

yep, Michael Bay has that class of film locked down.

Transformers :yuck
itm

Bildi

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 08:12:05 AM »
Transformers was shite but at least I wasn't driven to fast forward through massive chunks of it.  Avatar takes the cake for me.

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 08:41:06 AM »
Last Airbender is worse than anything.

Personally, I really like Avatar, especially the extended directors cut. People say it's nothing but a tech demo, but you have an hour and a half without any action. I think it's a great movie with well developed characters, an interesting world, interesting mythos. The fact that they created the world by scratch, which is rare for a Hollywood film these days and managed to make it that cool speaks of the talent doing the movie. People often cite it's Danced with Wolves in space or something, but really, that's just one element of the movie. I see it more as science vs nature, and while not original, it's really entertaining.

Not to mention, the action in the film is some of the best cut action in any recent film. I hate today's blur messes with terrible action scenes. Avatar is amazing in this regard.

I think Avatar gets more flack than it deserves. I have watched it over five times and while I don't think it's a perfect movie, the people who complain about the movie are flat out bitches. Easily better than a lot of 90's stuff like Independence Day or whatever and you don't see people bitching about that.

I really like Avatar and won't defend it from people who don't like it, I'll just state my opinion each and every time. Now where's my damn Avatar cartoon. I want more.
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BlueTsunami

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 08:44:08 AM »
Watched it once at release and haven't felt compelled to watch it again since. I think that's the only major Cameron release that I feel this way about.
:9

AdmiralViscen

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 09:03:12 AM »
Trying too hard

Great Rumbler

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2011, 09:12:31 AM »
No, Avatar is not worse than Transformers, The Last Airbender, or Van Helsing.
dog

Mupepe

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2011, 09:20:15 AM »
Captain America is the worst Blockbuster.

Human Snorenado

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 10:50:45 AM »
::) @ GS
yar

Robo

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2011, 11:20:49 AM »
Based on this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films, films that are far worse than Avatar:

Worldwide Highest Grossing films:

3 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
4 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
6 Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides
7 Alice in Wonderland
10 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
15 Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
16 Shrek 2
18 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
19 Spider-Man 3
20 Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs
21 Transformers: Dark of the Moon
25 Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
31 Shrek the Third
34 Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

So no, not by a long shot.
obo

Stoney Mason

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2011, 11:23:38 AM »
I like it. And a lot more than whatever comic book nerd of the week movie that seems to get a thread. But that's how I roll.

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 11:38:55 AM »
I like it. And a lot more than whatever comic book nerd of the week movie that seems to get a thread. But that's how I roll.

my nicca
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cool breeze

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2011, 12:01:56 PM »
future generations will look back at those Shrek numbers, shake their heads, and unitedly accept evolution.

Diunx

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 12:28:07 PM »
Who was championing it over here again?

That taco GS, sometimes I feel like he has never actually left us.
Drunk

Bloodwake

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2011, 12:42:32 PM »
Avatar wasn't a total shitfest. It was merely okay.

There are much worse movies that were big blockbusters, like FUCKING VAN HELSING.
HLR

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2011, 01:05:55 PM »
No, Avatar is not worse than Transformers, The Last Airbender, or Van Helsing.

Oh man, Van Helsing.   :lol :lol :yuck :-\ :-X :lol :yuck

That and the first Hulk movie are the only two films I have ever fallen asleep watching in a movie theater.
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EmCeeGrammar

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2011, 03:19:23 PM »
Still playing the coy phony.  Demi change his name back please.
sad

Smooth Groove

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2011, 03:24:41 PM »
Van Helsing has Kate Beckinsale's MILF ass though so it can't be the worst BB ever. 

EmCeeGrammar

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2011, 03:36:13 PM »
I liked on Stranger Tides.  Let's not pretend the first 3 movies aren't flawed yet fun movies too.  Coulda used more Blackbeard voodoo though.
sad

Stoney Mason

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2011, 03:37:50 PM »
No, Avatar is not worse than Transformers, The Last Airbender, or Van Helsing.

Oh man, Van Helsing.   :lol :lol :yuck :-\ :-X :lol :yuck

That and the first Hulk movie are the only two films I have ever fallen asleep watching in a movie theater.

Van Helsing was the worst thing ever. The Second transformers was a tower of shit. The third Spiderman movie was shit-tastic. Personally I think Independence Day is garbage even though that's not a popular opinion on forums.

It's cool to not like Avatar. Everybody is entitled to their opinions on these things. I just like to keep some perspective.

Joe Molotov

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2011, 03:38:07 PM »
Just off the top of my head The Mummy Returns, Shrek 3 & 4, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, any Twilight movie, X-Men 3, and The Matrix Revolutions were all much worse than Avatar.
©@©™

Stoney Mason

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2011, 03:44:02 PM »
X-Men 3
Unlike most I think those first two X-men movies were average but good lord that 3rd one was like just awful. I was shocked how much I liked that last once (First Class or something) since I thought the series had pretty much tanked after the 3rd one. Never bothered to watch Wolverine. The previews made it look stupid.

Great Rumbler

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2011, 03:47:23 PM »
I still can't believe how badly X-Men 3 botched Juggernaut. Awful.
dog

Vizzys

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2011, 03:48:09 PM »
As long as Avatar is not milked to death in shittastic sequels like Spider-Man, POTC or The Matrix well, it is fine.

Leave Avatar as it is - a 3D classic.

it made way too much money to not make a sequel
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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2011, 03:49:25 PM »
James Cameron started work on two sequels ages ago.
dog

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2011, 03:56:30 PM »
Can't wait for my Avatar sequels.

WHERE'S MY CARTOON.

They should have made a cartoon over a year ago to expand upon the world of Pandora, the cast of Avatar while taking advantage of Avatar's success. Fucking idiots.
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CajoleJuice

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2011, 04:00:14 PM »
AWESOM-O has to be Willco
AMC

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2011, 04:00:54 PM »
naw, awesom-o's been posting in jrpg threads. willco don't fuck with dat shit
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EmCeeGrammar

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2011, 04:01:55 PM »
There's already an Avatar cartoon. Just got renewed for two more seasons.

Oh wait I was talking about the noteworthy Avatar.
sad

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2011, 04:08:39 PM »
Aw shut the fuck up, you know what I'm talking about.

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Barry Egan

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2011, 05:16:39 PM »
I thought the movie was pretty insipid when I first watched it.   But that was before I realized how universal it's  themes were.  It reminds me a lot of the movie Good Burger in that way, actually.

Mupepe

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2011, 05:20:58 PM »
:bow Good Burger :bow2

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2011, 05:30:51 PM »
I thought the movie was pretty insipid when I first watched it.   But that was before I realized how universal it's  themes were.  It reminds me a lot of the movie Good Burger in that way, actually.

:bow
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Stoney Mason

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM »
James Cameron started work on two sequels ages ago.

I liked Avatar but sequels would be the worst thing ever. That universe is not nearly deep enough to support the extended lore of more full length movies. Similar to the Matrix which had those shitty sequels.


Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2011, 05:46:25 PM »
I kinda agree, but I want more!
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2011, 05:55:50 PM »
Oh Glen Shinobi, you just couldn't resist, could you?

Anyway, I never bothered to watch Avatar and don't intend to.  It didn't look interesting and I wasn't going to set my preferences aside to watch a movie I knew I wouldn't like because it is a blockbuster.
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Dickie Dee

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2011, 04:39:38 AM »
I thought it was alright, it was just...another movie, it didn't get me that much excited either way tbh.
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pilonv1

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2011, 05:37:25 AM »
naw, awesom-o's been posting in jrpg threads. willco don't fuck with dat shit

if you were willco and wanted to hide who you were you'd do something different
itm

pilonv1

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2011, 05:46:01 AM »
wasnt willco a gamestop district manager or some shit?
itm

The Sceneman

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2011, 05:57:56 AM »
^ lol

On topic: the Pirates movies are so much worse than Avatar. At least Avatar had some mean CGI and one funny scene
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Don Flamenco

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2011, 10:15:04 AM »
Definitely one to see in the theaters because it's bad but with cool effects.  Kinda wish I'd seen it in 3D.  That nighttime forest scene would be pretty awesome in 3D.

Broseidon

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2011, 10:18:17 AM »
Definitely one to see in the theaters because it's bad but with cool effects.  Kinda wish I'd seen it in 3D.  That nighttime forest scene would be pretty awesome in 3D.

It was.

But fuck 3D.
bent

naff

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2011, 01:09:59 AM »
It was good, saw it in 3D and I will never bother watching it a second time. Apparently Herzogs movie Cave of Forgotten dreams is a better 3D experience AND it's interesting to boot. Missed the 3D screenings in the recent festival here though  :'(
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chronovore

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2011, 09:54:41 AM »
Definitely one to see in the theaters because it's bad but with cool effects.  Kinda wish I'd seen it in 3D.  That nighttime forest scene would be pretty awesome in 3D.

I went out of my way to see the Director's Cut re-release in 3D. I thought "this is my chance to see the movie as Cameron wanted it to be seen" -- and it was really mediocre. I think I saw it the only way it would have any redeeming qualities, but considering this is from the guy who made ALIENS out of someone else's property, and this was him with a free reign and entirely pulling from his own imagination, I was disappointed with everything except the special effects.

cool breeze

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2011, 12:42:50 PM »
Definitely one to see in the theaters because it's bad but with cool effects.  Kinda wish I'd seen it in 3D.  That nighttime forest scene would be pretty awesome in 3D.

yeah, it was worth watching for the visual effects and action.  It was an event movie and I have no interest to see it again (after the two times I saw it in theaters in 3D).

Anything related to the story was weak.   The world is actually kinda dumb.  Like, the animals on Pandora are animals on earth, except with USB ports and more legs.  The overall design lacked imagination.  Probably intentional for the audience to better relate to the alien world.

chronovore

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2011, 07:26:14 AM »
I liked all the art direction. The aliens, the world (esp. the parts shamelessly lifted from Roger Dean), and even the revamped USCM goods the PMC was rockin'. Good stuff.

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2011, 09:25:11 AM »
Anything related to the story was weak.   The world is actually kinda dumb.  Like, the animals on Pandora are animals on earth, except with USB ports and more legs.  The overall design lacked imagination.  Probably intentional for the audience to better relate to the alien world.

You're talking about almost every sci-fi ever.

I guess Earth has grass that has a reverb when you walk on it, or floating islands or flying dragon things.  :P

You are grasping at straws.

Watch, watch. He's going to fire back with "but that's not original" like that's any argument.
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Mupepe

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2011, 10:29:01 AM »
The horses used the same sfx that the raptors in JP III did.

Himu

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2011, 10:36:09 AM »
I didn't even watch JP3. JP2 was enough for me.
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Great Rumbler

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Re: So is Avatar, like, the worst blockbuster ever?
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2011, 10:48:20 AM »
No one should watch JPIII.
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