Thoughts on the Trayvon Martin situation?

[drew]

stand your ground has nothing to do with this case, when you are being attacked you have the right to defend yourself, period.  it applies to avoiding a situation if at all possible BEFORE something bad happens.  all this talk about stand your ground is just thrown out there by people who want the law repealed.

[Himu]

It's pretty clear where people stand on this issue and other social issues. It's like a clear defined line in the sand. I'm actually ashamed that some of my friends are pulling the "well, you don't know what happened/why is this important" line. Ashamed, and a little hurt.

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"

He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.

[Himu]

Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"

He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.

No one said he was a saint. How is that info even remotely relevant? If Martin was found with burgaling tools on his person, or a spray paint can, or if Zimmerman reported him doing something - anything - illegal, he'd had a reason to pursue.

Wait, you're telling me that WASN'T the case?

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"

He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.

No one said he was a saint.

People are wearing hoodies as if he is some kind of martyr.

What gives?

There is a small chance that zimmerman might have acted in self defense.

[Himu]

Some new details about Martin. He might have a history with fighting with a bus driver, a few suspensions from school for drugs, graffiti and "possession of burglary tools"

He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.

No one said he was a saint.

People are wearing hoodies as if he is some kind of martyr.

People are wearing hoodies because he was profiled as being suspicious when he wasn't doing anything. He was profiled because his clothing/race/whatever, the point is that he was profiled. They're wearing hoodies because hoodies are common clothing for people that age - hell, it is for people OUR age. Yet he's labeled suspicious because he's wearing a hoody in the rain? Not likely.

[Himu]

There is a small chance that zimmerman might have acted in self defense.

HE STALKED MARTIN AND FOLLOWED/CHASED AFTER HIM.

IT WAS MARTIN WHO WOULD BE ON THE DEFENSIVE.

[drew]

regardless of what happened he misused his CCW, it isn't a license to be a vigilante and seek out harmful situations.

[Mupepe]

regardless of what happened he misused his CCW, it isn't a license to be a vigilante and seek out harmful situations.

This.

I hate how some people are trying to paint gun owners and 2nd amendment fanatics as defenders in this group.  On any of the gun forums I frequent people hate this guy.  He did everything you're taught not to do.  This is not a gun owners vs gun control issues because THIS is not what gun owners and CCW holders want either.  Zimmerman is a poster boy for everything gun advocates hate.

[Steve Youngblood]

He might not be the skittle saint some people are trying to make him out to be.

Obviously, character perception always helps in creating good vs. evil narratives. However, I honestly wasn't aware that the case hinged on him being a saint. These sorts of findings seem more appropriate on the campaign trail where we're trying to dig up dirt on our opponent who is six points ahead in the polls, not in trying to posthumously besmirch the character of a dead 17-year-old.

[Himu]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/

Finally, a man of reason. I hate Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

This inspires me to make a comic on this.

[Huff]

Found this on facebook. Thought it was a pretty good summary

"-If Zimmerman chased Martin down and then Martin turned around to attack I would consider Martin acting in self-defense and Zimmerman should be charged.
-If Zimmerman actually lost him in pursuit (as reports state) and returned to his car only to be attacked by Martin then Martin deserved to eat lead.

Everything else related to this case is just Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trying to make money. A petition to arrest Zimmerman, really? I'd like to petition for the arrest of Bush/Cheney on war crimes but I'm pretty sure Congress would tell me to pound salt. The Black Panthers should also be gutted for putting a price on someone's head. Solicitation of Murder is more serious of a crime than Zimmerman would be charged with anyway (I'm assuming it would be manslaughter)."

[Himu]

-If Zimmerman actually lost him in pursuit (as reports state) and returned to his car only to be attacked by Martin then Martin deserved to eat lead.

That's not what happened. Martin was being chased, he called his girlfriend, he stopped for a bit thinking he lost Zimmerman, Zimmerman confronted him.

But thanks for telling us what you found on facebook.

[Huff]

-If Zimmerman actually lost him in pursuit (as reports state) and returned to his car only to be attacked by Martin then Martin deserved to eat lead.

That's not what happened. Martin was being chased, he called his girlfriend, he stopped for a bit thinking he lost Zimmerman, Zimmerman confronted him.

But thanks for telling us what you found on facebook.

No prob.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

himuro knows as much as yoru average facebook poster

[Steve Youngblood]

Everything else related to this case is just Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trying to make money. A petition to arrest Zimmerman, really? I'd like to petition for the arrest of Bush/Cheney on war crimes but I'm pretty sure Congress would tell me to pound salt. The Black Panthers should also be gutted for putting a price on someone's head. Solicitation of Murder is more serious of a crime than Zimmerman would be charged with anyway (I'm assuming it would be manslaughter)."

Everything else related to the case was outrage that there wasn't even a case.

Also, what relevance do the Black Panthers have to this? That's pretty much the definition of a red herring.

So, yeah, I don't think it's a very good summary. Mind you, I don't think everyone needs to grab their pitchfork and throw fuel on the fire to incite more racial tension. Furthermore, I understand that some are tentative of being served crow when new facts arise, and are weary of prematurely casting judgement. However, this reads more like nonsense from people who are overeager to pretend like we're in a post-racial world.

"I don't see why so many think there's a race issue, here. Here's some distractiony nonsense that has nothing to do with anything to show that, not only was this altercation not racially-charged at all, but those that think it is are the real problems."

[Huff]

Everything else related to this case is just Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trying to make money. A petition to arrest Zimmerman, really? I'd like to petition for the arrest of Bush/Cheney on war crimes but I'm pretty sure Congress would tell me to pound salt. The Black Panthers should also be gutted for putting a price on someone's head. Solicitation of Murder is more serious of a crime than Zimmerman would be charged with anyway (I'm assuming it would be manslaughter)."

Everything else related to the case was outrage that there wasn't even a case.

Also, what relevance do the Black Panthers have to this? That's pretty much the definition of a red herring.

So, yeah, I don't think it's a very good summary. Mind you, I don't think everyone needs to grab their pitchfork and throw fuel on the fire to incite more racial tension. Furthermore, I understand that some are tentative of being served crow when new facts arise, and are weary of prematurely casting judgement. However, this reads more like nonsense from people who are overeager to pretend like we're in a post-racial world.

"I don't see why so many think there's a race issue, here. Here's some distractiony nonsense that has nothing to do with anything to show that, not only was this altercation not racially-charged at all, but those that think it is are the real problems."

I didn't originally read it as trying to deny that there was race issue, but going into earlier posts, that's where he was going with that. My bad for bring it up.

[Brehvolution]

Joe Scarborough said on his show that his friend, who authored the Stand Your Ground law, says that law doesn't apply here. There is no reason an arrest wasn't made.

[Great Rumbler]

Well, see, that's only one part of the law. There's also this kind of stuff in play:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/Chapter776

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/spike-lee-zimmerman-tweet-567891

MARCH 27--With Twitter and Facebook continuing to explode with posts purporting to contain the address of George Zimmerman, property records and interviews reveal that the home is actually the longtime residence of a married Florida couple, both in their 70s, who have no connection to the man who killed Trayvon Martin and are now living in fear due to erroneous reports about their connection to the shooter.

Jesus christ that's pretty scary and exactly why I'm saying that you guys don't have all the facts and need to calm the fuck down.

[Joe Molotov]

Fucking Spike Lee, geez.

[Positive Touch]

shut the fuck up FoC

[Human Snorenado]

Well, those people would have nothing to worry about if, you know, Zimmerman had been arrested FOR FUCKING MURDER like he should have been.  HERP DERP DERP.

[Joe Molotov]

It would be fine to say "we don't know all the facts; let a jury decide" if the police, you know, he even bothered to arrest him. The only reason it's even possible that he might be arrested at sometime in the future is because people got fired up over it, otherwise it just would have been swept under a rug.

[Huff]

He should be in jail right now. At the very least, be unable to carry another weapon around.

[Great Rumbler]

Check out this little part of Florida law:

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/776.032

herpa derp Florida

[Mandark]

On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models.   

[Phoenix Dark]

wait, wtf @ that link 

To be fair a lot of GoT fans freaked out over the show casting a couple black actors for the second season, but nothing like that

[Human Snorenado]

On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models.   

Jesus man, I must be more sheltered than I thought growing up in liberal Portland. Fuckin a.. I don't even

Come visit me in the South.

[Himu]

Nothing in that link is really shocking, people just hide it better than others, but attitude is everything. If you keep looking at me - repeatedly, as in, every five seconds - when it's broad daylight while I'm trailing you on a walk in the same suburban neighborhood I grew up in, you may or may not be racial profiling me - though I personally believe they're just checking me out, but who wouldn't? I'm handsome. The thing that white people can't seem to understand is it's also not really a white problem. My dad shit talks "those fucking Mexicans" and how crazy white people are all the time. Then again, he grew up in Oakland, California in 50's-70's and I'm pretty positive he was a black panther but won't admit it so whatever.

Race in general needs to be discussed openly in America. It's just brewing and brewing and waiting for the top to blow off. I think our generation generally fairs better than past generations, though of course that's not the case entirely.

[Himu]

I was talking to Duckroll about stuff like politics where he lives - Singapore - the other week. He said that racism is outlawed and you would be fined/jailed for saying hate speech that is in that link.

And by extension, thanks to Premium Lager for being such a wonderful bloke:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121003/Liam-Stacey-sent-prison-offensive-tweet-Fabrice-Muamba.html

That should put a smile on your face, Spencer. Or it may make your frown because depending on political allegiance you will consider it akin to a authoritarian police state.

[Great Rumbler]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121003/Liam-Stacey-sent-prison-offensive-tweet-Fabrice-Muamba.html

That should put a smile on your face, Spencer. Or it may make your frown because depending on political allegiance you will consider it akin to a authoritarian police state.

It's totally a slippery slope there and an infringement of free speech and blah blah blah, but you know what? I DON'T CARE. Good on you, UK.

[Himu]

I think the biggest thing here is that in summation Malcolm X was right. Look, I'm all for integration. But we integrated blacks and whites and other races without ADDRESSING those issues. It's like we said,"here, play with those people over there. You may not like them, but you'll need to bear with them." This does not contribute to open-mindedness, free thinking, or or freeing people of racial bias. It just adds fuel to the fire. Fast forward 50 years, people think we are in a post-racial land because of the civil rights act and affirmative action and it takes stuff like this for people to realize that race is still a VERY huge issue in America?

L. O. L.

[Human Snorenado]

I think the biggest thing here is that in summation Malcolm X was right. Look, I'm all for integration. But we integrated blacks and whites and other races without ADDRESSING those issues. It's like we said,"here, play with those people over there. You may not like them, but you'll need to bear with them." This does not contribute to open-mindedness, free thinking, or or freeing people of racial bias. It just adds fuel to the fire. Fast forward 50 years, people think we are in a post-racial land because of the civil rights act and affirmative action and it takes stuff like this for people to realize that race is still a VERY huge issue in America?

L. O. L.

BUT BUT BUT WE ELECTED A BLACK PRESIDENT!

[Human Snorenado]

I don't think people should go to jail or be fined for saying racist shit.  I do think they should have to wear a clown suit and a sandwich board that says "ignorant fucker" around until they learn to be better human beings, though.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't think people should go to jail or be fined for saying racist shit.  I do think they should have to wear a clown suit and a sandwich board that says "ignorant fucker" around until they learn to be better human beings, though.

Something like this would be suitable:

[Boogie]

On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models.   

Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" 

[Eel O'Brian]

Punishing people for saying things isn't addressing the root problem of why they're saying things like that.  I don't think it's much of a solution at all and would probably actually just make things worse, so I can't say I approve.

+1

[Himu]

On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models.   

Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" 

Though I realize Mandark was joking in his FB post, I was really speaking of general. Though Mandark was joking, there are many who actually say things like that and mean it, but...

Fine. I'll bite. You and Mandark tell me what was wrong with what I said. Just sounds like fruit laced naïveté to me, as if to say only black people have these problems. What if Rue was cast as Arabic? There are Arabic, Indian, Asians, and Latinos with dark skin and could easily fit the description of the character. Would they REALLY be treated THAT much better if Rue wasn't  cast as a girl with African origin?

If you think that you may or may not be a part of the problem.

I'm not saying this to boogie or Mandark, because you guys are better than that. I'm speaking in general. Because some people really do think this is a only a black and white issue (literally).

[tiesto]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120812/Shocking-Trayvon-Martin-t-shirt-bearing-rappers-crude-lyrics-sale.html

I'll admit, I laughed

[Hock]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/

Finally, a man of reason. I hate Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

This inspires me to make a comic on this.

I agree, if Sharpton and Jackson have ignored black on black crime, then they deserve to be hated. But I would think they do address it, it probably just doesn't get any press. Like when people say "why don't muslim leaders in the US condemn terrorists?", just because it doesn't get on the news and you don't look for it, doesn't mean they aren't saying it.

[Phoenix Dark]

We're getting into "black people, stop embarrassing me" territory. With respect to Jackson and Sharpton is completely fair to criticize them for not spending much time discussing black-on-black violence, in light of the grandstanding and exploitation going on with Martin right now. I'm sorry but saying killing black people is "big business" isn't helping anyone. What should be happening is an honest discussion on profiling and institutional racism, not a series of bad logic leaps and hyperbole; leave that to the far right.

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120812/Shocking-Trayvon-Martin-t-shirt-bearing-rappers-crude-lyrics-sale.html

Does this part seem odd to anyone else?

It was revealed today that Sabrina Fulton, the boy’s mother, filed two petitions last week to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to specifically gain the rights to the phrases ‘I Am Trayvon’ and ‘Justice For Trayvon’, both of which have been frequently used by protesters across the country.

[Boogie]

On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models.   

Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" 

Though I realize Mandark was joking in his FB post, I was really speaking of general. Though Mandark was joking, there are many who actually say things like that and mean it, but...

Fine. I'll bite. You and Mandark tell me what was wrong with what I said. Just sounds like fruit laced naïveté to me, as if to say only black people have these problems. What if Rue was cast as Arabic? There are Arabic, Indian, Asians, and Latinos with dark skin and could easily fit the description of the character. Would they REALLY be treated THAT much better if Rue wasn't  cast as a girl with African origin?

If you think that you may or may not be a part of the problem.

I'm not saying this to boogie or Mandark, because you guys are better than that. I'm speaking in general. Because some people really do think this is a only a black and white issue (literally).

Well, it's nice that you edited that to look slightly less oblivious, Himuro.

[Positive Touch]

On FB I said we oughta recast all the superheroes as black (talking about this) and Himu explained to me very earnestly how that would merely exclude other minorities and leave Asian and latino kids without role models.   

Oh God, he even ended it with a "protip" 

Though I realize Mandark was joking in his FB post, I was really speaking of general. Though Mandark was joking, there are many who actually say things like that and mean it, but...

Fine. I'll bite. You and Mandark tell me what was wrong with what I said. Just sounds like fruit laced naïveté to me, as if to say only black people have these problems. What if Rue was cast as Arabic? There are Arabic, Indian, Asians, and Latinos with dark skin and could easily fit the description of the character. Would they REALLY be treated THAT much better if Rue wasn't  cast as a girl with African origin?

If you think that you may or may not be a part of the problem.

I'm not saying this to boogie or Mandark, because you guys are better than that. I'm speaking in general. Because some people really do think this is a only a black and white issue (literally).

PROTIP: responding seriously to joke posts makes you look kind of slow

[Boogie]

dcharlie, I am so bookmarking that post for future use.

[Madrun Badrun]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475

[Phoenix Dark]

hmmmmm

[Phoenix Dark]

Zimmerman's defence force assemble:

And we know this video was definitely taken that night of the shooting? Zimmerman is currently bald, etc?

smmfh

jesus christ

No broken nose, no bruises on the back of his head. There's not even blood on his shirt. I'm not Horatio Cain but if Martin had been on top of Zimmerman when the shot happened, he'd be covered in blood. Looks like he must have dis-tangled himself from Martin and shot him.

[Himu]

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Phoenix Dark]

The officers aren't even wearing gloves...

[Phoenix Dark]

Anyone who has broken their nose or seen someone break theirs knows blood gets everywhere. Dude is full of shit

also

I can't even imagine the mental hoops one would have to jump through to label Obama's comments as hate speech

[Mr. Gundam]

I saw that video footage last night on the news. What. the. fuck. Florida.

Throw the book at 'em all.

[Joe Molotov]

1. Zimmerman confronts Trayvon.
2. They scuffle.
3. Trayvon punches Zimmerman in the nose and he falls down and bumps his head.
4. Zimmerman is like "Screw you punk" and kills him.
5. Zimmerman gets lawyered up and a sore nose and a bump on the head become a broken nose and "he was pounding my head on the pavement".
6. 99% of the sane, non-racist public sees through this obvious bullcrap.

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

Things keep getting worse and worse for Zimmerman.

This is why its best to just mind your own business.

[Human Snorenado]

You really just have to question the mindset of some dude walking around with a gun looking for trouble... which is basically what Zimmerman was. 

[Timedog]

1. Zimmerman confronts Trayvon.
2. They scuffle.
3. Trayvon punches Zimmerman in the nose and he falls down and bumps his head.
4. Zimmerman is like "Screw you punk" and kills him.
5. Zimmerman gets lawyered up and a sore nose and a bump on the head become a broken nose and "he was pounding my head on the pavement".
6. 99% of the sane, non-racist public sees through this obvious bullcrap.

Basically.

[Boogie]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/28/after-trayvon-martin-was-shot-police-wanted-to-arrest-george-zimmerman-but-prosecutors-did-not-approve-warrant-reports/

[Phoenix Dark]

George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lost-job-party-security-guard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223#ixzz1qa229p00

fair and balanced edit: Trayvon listened to LITTLE WAYNE GANGSTER RAP

[Human Snorenado]

Also, TWEETS ABOUT WEED OMG GAAAAANGSTER