Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.

[magus]

This has always been an incredibly-distinguished mentally-challenged "debate."  Smash is a "party fighter" if you want to give it a sub-classification, but yeah...it's a fighting game.  One with random elements thrown in, sure, but still a fighting game.  This is like someone in 1993 saying that Virtua Fighter isn't a fighting game because it doesn't play like Street Fighter.

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion.

saying that is a party fighter means that a game has element from both genre,so what's wrong if i say "i think the party element are more relevant than the fighting element,therefore it's a party game" that was the argument i was trying to make with all these rule before someone went "nuh-uh,what about games with ring outs?"

How can you even say the party elements outweigh the fighting ones? The fighting game is its core. That's why it's a "party fighter" and not a "fighty partyer." Like Rumbler said you can turn all the party stuff off, you can't say the same for the fighting stuff. Even in SSE the focus is on fighting.

do i have to post it again?



nobody plays with all the random element removed because it's the randomness that make the game special,you can play an FPS with all the guns turned off but that doesn't magicaly turn into another genre because some people have decided that gun are unfair

and really? the focus of SSE is on fighting?

so i take it power stone and battle arena toshinden aren't fighters either?

we'd have to talk about how many fighting game rules power stone break and how much randomness is in it
i think power stone weight more on the fighting scale,therefore it's a fighting game simply by virtue of being 1 on 1,having traditional health bar and having character that don't spend 5 minutes in air tumbling around like pinball balls but you could probably make an argument for the sequel
but nobody cares about power stone so it's ok

[Tasty]

Either magus is literally the devil, as in the devil's advocate, or he's just really really dumb. I don't really know which I'd prefer at this point.

[magus]

how about Marvel vs Capcom, then?  Triple jumps, characters flying through the air like pinballs, multiple fighters at the same time...?

there are no random elements in marvel vs capcom and as far as i checked it's a 1 vs 1 game
1 on 1 means that 2 fighters and only 2 fighters fight at the same time and not stuff like having a tag team or something,i guess you could count strikers and tag assist as having multiple fighters since you can still punch them in the face before they pull out their attack but that's really forcing the definition

and true,marvel vs capcom character have a lot of mobility and air time,but they don't have the same absurd amount of mobility and air time a smash bros character have which move like a character in a kirby game which is why they made a whole mode that plays like a sidescroller,nor they risk bouncing on a wall,or catching on fire or fall trough a pit,which is the whole point of "the stage is flat" rule

just to reinforce that "randomness is more important in smash than punching" think what they added in brawl,they added a special move that's given to a random player at a random time,if the point of the game was fighting why not make the special move based on how much you punch people?

[Robo]

"Randomness" doesn't amount to anything in a fighting game beyond a discussion concerning "fairness" and competitive worth.  I'm making a real attempt to not read the millionth manifestation of this stupid topic, but I'm not sure why that's even part of the argument.

To wit, even Street Fighter 2 contains significant elements of randomness: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Randomness

• The amount of damage done by a move (This can be extreme)
• The amount of dizzy damage done by a move
• The charge times for special/super moves (Can vary up to 3 frames)
• Ryu's [cr.Short->cr.Short xx super] simply won't combo half the time, even when timed perfectly.
• Gief's standing 720 (He'll just jump half the time, even when timed perfectly)
• Who gets the throw when both players input the command on the same frame
• Getting a normal move when attempting a wake-up throw against a meaty attack
• Inputs windows for special moves and super attacks.

[Robo]

Smash is a party fighter—a sub-genre of fighting games whereby more than two individually player-controlled characters fight one another simultaneously.  Power Stone 2 is a party fighter.  Naruto is a party fighter.  Guilty Gear Isuka is a party fighter.  Thrill Kill is a party fighter.

[brob]

are we using "contemporary community standards" or "hypothetical reasonable persons" when determining what is, and isn't a fighting game?

magoose has already deemed Super Turbo a non-fighting game, so he is clearly neither.

[Tasty]

just to reinforce that "randomness is more important in smash than punching" think what they added in brawl,they added a special move that's given to a random player at a random time,if the point of the game was fighting why not make the special move based on how much you punch people?

Regardless of how you get it, the end result is always using it to fight other characters. AKA fighting game.

"Randomness" doesn't amount to anything in a fighting game beyond a discussion concerning "fairness" and competitive worth.  I'm making a real attempt to not read the millionth manifestation of this stupid topic, but I'm not sure why that's even part of the argument.

To wit, even Street Fighter 2 contains significant elements of randomness: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Randomness

• The amount of damage done by a move (This can be extreme)
• The amount of dizzy damage done by a move
• The charge times for special/super moves (Can vary up to 3 frames)
• Ryu's [cr.Short->cr.Short xx super] simply won't combo half the time, even when timed perfectly.
• Gief's standing 720 (He'll just jump half the time, even when timed perfectly)
• Who gets the throw when both players input the command on the same frame
• Getting a normal move when attempting a wake-up throw against a meaty attack
• Inputs windows for special moves and super attacks.

Suck it maguguu.

[Shaka Khan]

Honestly, I don't really care how it's categorized, but I care *so much* about pissing off nerds.

So the minute ninthings collectively stop frothing and fuming in the face of others' denial, I'll call it a fighter.

Until then, it's not a fighter, you childish future fegs.

[Shaka Khan]

I edited "future" in because calling kids fegs is just wrong.

[Momo]

It's too late Oscar, you have already been splashed by (5) shit(s)

[Tasty]

I'm waiting for Oscar to throw his hands up and say "that's it, I'm done with the Bore now too. See you losers on WYL."

[Shaka Khan]

Haha, it would be hilarious if this lame topic for some reason is his last straw.

People would be like "DK chased him off GAF; Smash chased him off Bore."

[Shaka Khan]

Wait a second, were we actually discussing this topic seriously?

[Owl-faced Wizard]

Green chips are party chips.

[Momo]

Also why would Oscar leave? It hasn't taken me long to figure out Momo has stupid fuckin opinions

Uhm yeah. sorry I can't live up to your (high) standards?

[Momo]

Yeah I'm that guy, unsuccessful derail

p.s. I wasnt mad or anything, just making a weed counter quip =P

[Himu]

leave my momo alone

[cool breeze]

Redeemer-tier only Spawn demon hand is the one true fighting game.

[brob]

assuming his user name is after the pyuo pyuo character, I'm with himu.

[Momo]

You guys 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[magus]

Hard to say.  Magoose may have been Poe'ing the shit out of me, I suppose.  But I don't think he was.

if i have an argument,i'll bring that argument to death even if it's about the sky being dark blue instead of cyan or some stupid shit like that

[Tasty]

We're all fucking nerds.  I don't even see how a non-nerd would have gotten to the Bore.  It's just that some of us nerds are trolly nerds, some of us are idiot nerds, and some of us are angry nerds.

Actually, "Rainbow Nerds" seems appropriate given the homosexual overtones of this place.

[Fifstar]

How has this thread 3 pages in a little more then one day?

[brob]

four digits worth of members mayne 

[magus]

magoose is worse than shit. it's diarrhea.

Just ignore him Oscar.

shut up you poo-land moron!

[Van Cruncheon]

smash brothers isn't a fighting game in the same way that count chocula isn't a breakfast cereal.

meaning that it's something for children and fatties.

[Tasty]

smash brothers isn't a fighting game in the same way that count chocula isn't a breakfast cereal.

meaning that it's something for children and fatties.

Works for me.

[Sho Nuff]

It's a shitty fighting game

Like FIST for the PSX

(Tries to find Youtube footage of it)

Holy shit FIST is so bad that nobody's even fucking put it on Youtube! IT'S ABOUT THE SAME QUALITY LEVEL AS BRAWL THOUGH

[Robo]

I can't believe I forgot to mention Wu-Tang: Shaolin Style, the definitive party-fighter.

[Takao]

Playing DBZ: Ultimate Battle 22 as a kid made me sick.

I liked Final Bout though. I'm afraid if I replay that I might die.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I don't see why anyone cares other than pro smash players wanting a piece of that mlg money.  I mean yeah, it would be nice to get officially sponsored and have a go at big cash prizes and get afforded all the same opportunities and rewards as the relative minority of folks who play street fighter/marvel (because lets face it, Smash is the most popular fighting game by several factors).  But its all moot because Nintendo will never endorse the community.  Its not like the smash scene is in any risk of dying out.  Its pretty damn huge.

[Momo]

The vehicle combat genre is a bit stranger for me.  Let's look at Twisted Metal, not a racing game, not a fighting game. It's sort of an arena based vehicle mayhem game, there arent enough of these to make it it's own genre really, hence why I put it with party games since it is most similar to that particular genre, although it's not a very comfy fit.

[Great Rumbler]

The vehicle combat genre is a bit stranger for me.  Let's look at Twisted Metal, not a racing game, not a fighting game. It's sort of an arena based vehicle mayhem game, there arent enough of these to make it it's own genre really, hence why I put it with party games since it is most similar to that particular genre, although it's not a very comfy fit.

Vigilante 8, Rogue Trip, and Interstate '76, fool.

[Momo]

And San Fransisco Rush. Doesnt make enough, even then, what do we call it so people would know what we are talking about?

[Momo]

San Fransisco Rush 2097 on N64 had a pretty awesome car combat arena mode, one of the finest examples of the genre.

Car combat in the name itself will definitely evoke a more accurate description of what you find in the box, just kind of hard to get people to accept it as a genre. The only reason we really label games is to be able to quickly summarize and easily communicate with our peers as to how a game will play. I feel for you and me, it's a perfect description, I'm not sure if it will work for those not familiar with the genre, not that "party game" works better in this instance at all.

[Sho Nuff]

SF Rush series

[etiolate]

Rush fans should check out http://nitronic-rush.com/

[bork]

I liked Final Bout though. I'm afraid if I replay that I might die.

 
 
 

One of the biggest piece of shit fighting games ever released.  When I worked at a game store, we used to tell customers how bad it was and recommend that they get Ultimate Battle 22 or Legends, but it didn't matter because it was Dragonball GT so Super Saiyajin #905903240324324324030423 was available or whatever.  Even the store owner would tell people that the game sucked because he knew they were going to buy it anyway, sell it back, and then he'd make more money selling the game used and repeating the cycle. 

[magus]

i liked final bout too

i remember if you got behind the opponent you could punch him to death and he would never be able to turn around
janky psx 3D fighting game

[Takao]

Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

[bork]

Takao, you can stay.  Leper magus.

[Himu]

Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

How did you guys play it? i played imports by disc swapping which was such a fucking hassle

[Takao]

I actually don't own a copy of Final Bout, it was just me playing at a friend's who had a modded PS1. I've never played The Legend. I tried getting it to run on an emulator but accidentally deleted some PS1 files and couldn't be bothered to fix it. I do own the North American release of UB22.

[cool breeze]

Final Bout is so awful, so is Ultimate Battle 22.  Legends is the only good PS1 Dragon Ball game and it's pretty great.

I own Final Bout and an imported Legends, but my friend and I mostly played Psychic Force if we wanted a good Dragon Ball video game on the ps1.

[Tasty]

Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

Best not be talking about the awesome Budokai Tenkaichi series.

[Takao]

I'm thinking Spike shitting out some horrible games this generation is warping my opinion on their older games. I had fun with Tenkaichi Tag Team, but that's basically the only Spike DBZ game I can say that about in recent times.

Somehow Ultimate Tenkaichi shipped 700k, so I imagine we're not done seeing Spike after DBZ for Kinect...

[magus]

Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

How did you guys play it? i played imports by disc swapping which was such a fucking hassle

playing pirated psx games is as easy as installing a chip and the streets around where i live are full of people selling bootlegs,i still remember the day i found someone who sold me a copy of lunar silver star story after reading about it as some mystical super rare game,for some reason it had the cover of the sequel

some bootlegs would turn up bad tough sometimes it was pretty obvious,like when someone was selling the bootleg of resident evil 6,maybe they saw the future?

[Momo]

I still have my PSX, it still works amazingly. I had mine chipped because that was the only solution back then.

[Tasty]

I'm thinking Spike shitting out some horrible games this generation is warping my opinion on their older games. I had fun with Tenkaichi Tag Team, but that's basically the only Spike DBZ game I can say that about in recent times.

Somehow Ultimate Tenkaichi shipped 700k, so I imagine we're not done seeing Spike after DBZ for Kinect...

BT2 and 3 were awesome.

[Himu]

here is mocking a magus argument

Don't you see? Randomness makes it less of a racing game. :imgur

Didn't you see this random comic I posted?



It nails why Mario Kart isn't a racing game. There are too many variables at work and you're always getting knocked out of your place. That's not a race, that's a cock fight.