I keep trying to convince her to start doing Hentai and Furry commissions to make some dough, but she refuses.
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youre clearly butthurt about SOMETHIN!
Quote from: MrAngryFace on July 28, 2012, 04:41:15 PMyoure clearly butthurt about SOMETHIN!i was kidding with you about the books, man
But it's still ultimately a man in a bat suit. Serious, realistic, and even sophisticated are not really accurate descriptors despite the tone.
Quote from: Van Cruncheon on July 28, 2012, 01:20:30 AMQuote from: jaroshI don't think any of Nolan's Batman movies posess much character insight (there's a glimmer of it in the Joker character) or even actual character development. It's all just superficial make-believe: tedious exposition, trite, simplistic visual and spoken metaphors.so what you're saying is that it's a comic book movie.i coulda told you that because it stars a man who dresses like a nocturnal rodent and features an antagonist named "bane"Pretty much is what I think. This isn't fucking Oscar-bait
Quote from: jaroshI don't think any of Nolan's Batman movies posess much character insight (there's a glimmer of it in the Joker character) or even actual character development. It's all just superficial make-believe: tedious exposition, trite, simplistic visual and spoken metaphors.so what you're saying is that it's a comic book movie.i coulda told you that because it stars a man who dresses like a nocturnal rodent and features an antagonist named "bane"
I don't think any of Nolan's Batman movies posess much character insight (there's a glimmer of it in the Joker character) or even actual character development. It's all just superficial make-believe: tedious exposition, trite, simplistic visual and spoken metaphors.
Did you know that Egans spelled backwards is Snage?
Snage A female homosapien with beautious qualities. Most notably surrounding the buttox. Her booty to overall body size ratio is estimated around 50/1. Directly influencing history, the Snage booty has even being blamed for the sack of Rome in 500AD. Overall, Some would compare the urban legend of Snage to Bigfoot... if bigfoot was hairless and had the body of a godess...Alex: "look at the BUNS on that Snage"
I don't know what you mean tried to be more than a comic story considering the second half of the story is ripped right out of No Man's Land.Again, this tone is consistent with Batman stories.
Then again sometimes I think not everyone wants to talk about what makes a movie like Johnny Mnemonic so brilliant.
Inception had some pretty good action scenes [thinking specifically about the hotel fight with JGL].
then again I have yet to see a Nolan film that I would rate as anything less than "very good" personally, so I guess it was right in my wheelhouse.
Nolan's Batman's are still very comic booky, the real pretentiousness comes from fans looking for it, putting up Nolan's trilogy on a pedestal.As a huge Batmantard and Nolan fanboy, they are very pulpy comic books with over the top characters. Hell TDKR is arguably the most like a comic book out of the 3.
You and me both, brother. Let's go somewhere quiet and talk about how awesome Nolan is.
Quote from: BrandNew on July 28, 2012, 04:32:00 PMQuote from: Van Cruncheon on July 28, 2012, 01:20:30 AMQuote from: jaroshI don't think any of Nolan's Batman movies posess much character insight (there's a glimmer of it in the Joker character) or even actual character development. It's all just superficial make-believe: tedious exposition, trite, simplistic visual and spoken metaphors.so what you're saying is that it's a comic book movie.i coulda told you that because it stars a man who dresses like a nocturnal rodent and features an antagonist named "bane"Pretty much is what I think. This isn't fucking Oscar-baitThat would be a fair argument had the movie aimed to be your average comic book flick, however it aspired to be something more complex, with depth, and strong themes. It tried more than any other movie in the genre to blur the comic books lines and tropes. So I think it's fair to call it out on its failure to reach those lofty goals. Nolan tried to set his trilogy aside from the pack and push it into different directions, so get used to it being judged based on different standards.Edit: Whoops, beaten by Egan.
I think what Jarosh has a problem with is the fact that Nolan makes it appear as though his Batman series is serious and sophisticated when really it has all the superficiality that's expected from comic book pap. It doesn't justify it's own pretentiousness. I don't necessarily agree with this, but I think an argument could definitely be made.
Quote from: Phoenix Dark on July 28, 2012, 01:49:51 PMbut what about TEH THEMES in my comic book summer blockbuster filmzDid *I* create the themes? Did you? Or any of the critics? No, it was Nolan. And if you inject your movie with all these grim, serious, delicate and complex themes, then you better know how to explore them properly. Otherwise, don't bother. It is not enough to try. If your movie simply doesn't *attempt* to explore complex themes and/or at least doesn't proudly, obnoxiously wear them on its sleeve, there's nothing wrong with that; it can shine in other areas instead. It's not a necessity for a movie to feature an array of themes that are difficult to tackle for it to be good/fun/interesting/entertaining.Which leads right into my next point. Never once did I say that the movie failed to live up to any of my previously held personal expectations. I had *zero* "hype" built up for it. I do not and never have cared about "hype". I don't go out of my way to watch trailers or read *anything* about the movies I intend to watch. I do not participate in message board threads about them. I do not even read reviews before watching a movie unless I have zero interest in it. There is nothing I could care less about than movie hype.What I *am* complaining about are the expectations the movie itself builds up. Which really should have been obvious from my previous posts. No, again, I'm not talking about interviews any of the film crew might have given in advance of the release. It is the movie that sets up something it never delivers on. It repeatedly informs the viewer of its intentions in the most un-subtle way imaginable, mostly through dry, heavy-handed and artless dialogue/exposition, but then never has anything interesting to say about any of the subjects or ideas it puts into the spotlight. This is pretty awkward. Of course if you stop at the movie's intentions - which, sadly, most critics are pretty content to do - you'll find yourself with a film that *has* a lot of themes and then frequently gets praised for that simple achievement of posessing them versus Actually Having Something To Say About Them.Here's a positive example from the second movie (TDK): I was really quite surprised on how the little stories the Joker tells about the origin of his disfigured face were handled. I don't remember if he tells two or three of these and I don't recall any of the details, but it doesn't matter. He first tells the story about his face to, I believe, one of his "victims". It's something about his childhood, maybe something about a knife being used to cut a permanent smile into his face. It doesn't matter. I remember my reaction to it: I thought it was a moderately interesting backstory, but nothing that added all that much to his personality, but I had also almost kind of hoped his origins, his history and motives would have stayed completely in the dark. Then, a while later, he tells an entirely different story about those same cuts to someone else. Now, this was interesting. All of a sudden we wonder: Obviously the earlier story couldn't have been true. Is this one? Probably not. Why does he make up these elaborate, cruel stories about the origin of his disfigurement? Now here's an interesting aspect of his personality, more so than the (made up) story about his childhood (which once again would have been nothing more than exposition feigning insight); here's something we are watching the character do right now on screen, something that goes beyond the *literal* content of the dialogue. I admit I half expected one of the Joker's goons to openly start wondering about the reasons for his deception, in typical Nolan fashion, and then for the Joker to answer with a throwaway quip/faux insight about The Nature Of Truth. Thankfully that didn't happen.Now, letting your characters say how they feel about themselves or others, letting them tell stories about their past and/or how that changed who they are today, letting them state their opinions (most of which consist of platitudes and vague moralistic or spiritual truisms) about The Themes, none of that is good or interesting writing, none of it *really* tells us anything about the characters, it's just pretense, affectation. Characters don't *do* anything to show that something shaped them in a certain way, something that will make us go "oh, that's interesting", they simply *say* that it happened and move on. It's really a simple case of Tell over Show, something that Nolan has yet to learn about apparently. And this has *nothing* to do with genres or super hero movies. Hell, lose the themes, tell us something true about the characters instead, independent from any overarching, crude attempt at letting us know - nudge nudge wink wink - that you have something important to say about the human condition. Or at least have good action, or be FUNNY - or something. Don't waste so much time and energy on trying to convince us that your movie is something it so clearly *isn't*. Iron Man, Spider-Man 1 and 2 are all ultimately more successful movies than TDKR, because, for the most part, they don't try so goddamn hard to be more than comic book movies.So, then, Amazing Spider-Man. A great movie? Hardly. But an entertaining one. It has plenty of problems too and it is ultimately probably pretty forgettable, but it has one thing over Nolan's Batman movies (more than one really, but I'll focus on this one): It has moments of genuine, heartfelt human connection, of compassion and empathy. One example: When Parker comes home to Aunt May late at night, after he's been beaten up, nearly died, but still, naturally, finally saved the day, they share a quiet intimate moment. They look at each other, her full of sorrow but finally relieved to see him alive, him guilty about the earlier argument. Then they exchange a few words, finally hug each other. It's brief and very simple, nothing rich with meaning or subtext or anything, but it feels genuine. Moments like these are *nowhere* to be found in TDKR (they are plentiful in Raimi's Spider-Man 2 as well) . It simply doesn't have time for them. It's a 3 hour long montage, mercilessly scored into the ground by Zimmer. It never comes to a halt, but still has many long, oddly paced and even boring stretches. Because, while it doesn't take the time to explore some, *any* of its themes or characters in more detail - which would require the odd quiet moment without music or expository dialogue or (shockingly conventional) action - it does take the the time to linger on inane plot details and devices that further the story for no other reason than to further the story. The script is pragmatically, hurriedly working down a list of story bullet points and at the end is finally relieved when it's all over, and that everything sort of fit into those 164 minutes.spoiler (click to show/hide)Ang Lee's Hulk, by the way, for all its faults, has ten times the character depth and insight of Nolan's Batman movies, but is magnitudes less Dark with a capital D.[close]
but what about TEH THEMES in my comic book summer blockbuster filmz
Not sure *what* I was expecting. Clearly I've given you guys way too much credit.
Here's a clearly more worthwhile subject to discuss and obsess over then, currently at 650 pages: http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=35993.0Have at it!
And you wonder why quality posters like me don't bother anymore guys.Shame.
wow what a rebel you are, PD. Couldn't afford it because they'd get in the way of Olive Garden night?
I liked all the super hero movies this year- they were all fun. Maybe its cause I went in thinking -hey! comic book movies!
