The Dark Knight Rises

[Cerveza mas fina]

PD, while you're making fun of Jarosh he's living happily ever after with Cloud.

[Himu]

I can see Jarosh's point about pacing, but BB and TDK both had pacing issues so I'm not sure why it's considered a surprise. BB itself takes an hour for Batman to even show up, and TDK has too much bloat. TDKR? Everything added to the whole, even if the whole was flawed. I just don't understand the majority of the complaints.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

TDKR is down 60% from last weekend.  Might not even hit TDK numbers when it is all said and done.

[MrAngryFace]

Memento was my first Nolan movie- but I liked Prestige the best. I havent got around to watching Inception or Insomnia

[Cerveza mas fina]

The only bad bad bad thing about TDKR is the that ending, it's almost up there with Indiana surviving a nuclear blast in the fridge.

Memento was my first Nolan movie- but I liked Prestige the best. I havent got around to watching Inception or Insomnia

Memento is very different in style from the others if I recall, it's been really a long time ago damn.

By the way:

Insomnia > Prestige > Inception

[fistfulofmetal]

The only bad bad bad thing about TDKR is the that ending, it's almost up there with Indiana surviving a nuclear blast in the fridge.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

he escaped from the bat long before it exploded. not really comparable.

[close]

[MrAngryFace]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thats an ending- even if its not the ending some people want. I dont really like the ending cause it feels like pandering but then again im not Nolan- maybe he just wanted that ending. who the fuk knows.

[close]

[Cerveza mas fina]

The only bad bad bad thing about TDKR is the that ending, it's almost up there with Indiana surviving a nuclear blast in the fridge.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

he escaped from the bat long before it exploded. not really comparable.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

To where? This is a nuclear bomb with a huge blast radius. Also where was the Tsunami after the blast? The chopper flew super low there should have been a motherfucking wave of water

[close]

[Himu]

Appropriate:
https://twitter.com/mattzollerseitz/status/229678224051929089

This is pretty much my point.

You are making complaints that exist throughout the course of the entire trilogy. None of those complaints are new, and it's shocking you'd even watch TDKR with the expectation of expecting anything different. I went in expecting what I got with BB and TDK, a very dialogue heavy, not-so-literal take on one of my more favorite super hero mythos and I thought it came out being the best one of the bunch. That's not to say it isn't flawed, because it is, but much like Prometheus, I am able to enjoy the film on its own merits because there is enough to like.

Why did you expect TDKR to be anything different?

[MrAngryFace]

ANYWAY

[fistfulofmetal]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

To where? This is a nuclear bomb with a huge blast radius. Also where was the Tsunami after the blast? The chopper flew super low there should have been a motherfucking wave of water

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i dunno. sometime before it exploded? it's not really up for debate, they make it blatantly obvious he wasn't in the bat later on when the Wayne tech said that the autopilot on the Bat systems had been repaired months earlier. he escaped. doesn't matter how really.

[close]

[Himu]

Jarosh: what did the Chinese guy sections of TDK add to that film, and why are you giving TDK a pass for adding non-essential scenes that add absolutely zero to the story in light of TDKR's more contained narrative structure and subject matter?

[cloudwalking]

I liked all the super hero movies this year- they were all fun. Maybe its cause I went in thinking -hey! comic book movies!

that's how i went in too but i came out of TDKR thinking "fuck, that was anything but fun." it felt tedious watching the movie and i was bored the whole time. because, as my husband much more eloquently stated, i found the movie to be wholly uninteresting while at the same time bordering on pretentious. baffling i know. seriously the movie might as well have had some voiceover with a guy whispering the whole time "ooooh this movie is dark and mysterious and suspenseful oooooooooooo." maybe it would have helped hide some of the shitty character development, plot, and pacing?

after it was over i felt kind of awkward and maybe a little dirty. like watching gay porn or something, i just asked myself after it was over "why? why did i watch this?"

like i said, i LIKE the previous two movies. i am a comic book fan and batman fan. and i definitely don't always agree with jarosh (i thought take shelter was boring, and he loved it). but i feel like TDKR was a total waste of my time.

[Himu]

Well, that's cool. Everyone is not always going to see eye to eye on every film. That's a part of the fun; tastes are subjective, not inherently wrong.

[Cerveza mas fina]

TDKR was worth it for Bane alone

spoiler (click to show/hide)

To where? This is a nuclear bomb with a huge blast radius. Also where was the Tsunami after the blast? The chopper flew super low there should have been a motherfucking wave of water

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i dunno. sometime before it exploded? it's not really up for debate, they make it blatantly obvious he wasn't in the bat later on when the Wayne tech said that the autopilot on the Bat systems had been repaired months earlier. he escaped. doesn't matter how really.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

What about the killer tsunami from the blast? The Bat only had seconds to fly away from the city

[close]

[Himu]

I liked all the super hero movies this year- they were all fun. Maybe its cause I went in thinking -hey! comic book movies!

maybe it would have helped hide some of the shitty character development, plot, and pacing?

Again, TDKR's main issue is exposition. Once you know all that is going to happen, it makes for a much smoother ride. The second time is thoroughly better than the first.

[Phoenix Dark]

PD, while you're making fun of Jarosh he's living happily ever after with Cloud.

You can't Fresh Prince me

[fistfulofmetal]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

What about the killer tsunami from the blast? The Bat only had seconds to fly away from the city

[close]

After the last few Nolan movies it's become pretty obvious he's more of a "big picture" guy. He doesnt worry too much about the smaller details as long as the story comes together. Stuff like that is irrelevant to the plot. Plus I think you're overestimating how much of an affect it would have to create a tsunami.

[Cerveza mas fina]

For me it's not a small detail that's the problem, the world where this is happening should still be governed by physics.

[cloudwalking]

PD, while you're making fun of Jarosh he's living happily ever after with Cloud.

yep and getting BJs on the regular  

[Himu]

Well, MAF said he didn't go in with expectations. I did. I expected a Nolan Batman movie and got that.

But I understand your predicament. I keep watching Ron Howard films and get burned every time!

[fistfulofmetal]

For me it's not a small detail that's the problem, the world where this is happening should still be governed by physics.

do you have any evidence that it would have created a tsunami? doing some quick google searches, i've found that a bomb like this probably wouldnt cause a tsunami.

[MrAngryFace]

Ultimately I guess im just a big picture movie guy- I watch a movie with my gut, and if it gets me what I want (to be entertained, not mentally provoked) then awesome. Sure, I watch some movies people consider all smart and good, but I do that at home alone, and I keep my interpretations to myself cause wtf who cares about what I get out of a movie. If I like something I just run around screaming that people should see it or theyre idiots and generally let it go at that because the minute I permit discussion is the minute people begin to unravel every aspect because guess what? People value different shit.

So in the end WHATEvER!!!!! barf *poop*

[Cerveza mas fina]

For me it's not a small detail that's the problem, the world where this is happening should still be governed by physics.

do you have any evidence that it would have created a tsunami? doing some quick google searches, i've found that a bomb like this probably wouldnt cause a tsunami.

I cant find anything on it, just seemed logical to me. But maybe Im wrong.

[Positive Touch]

i agree 100% with maf and will cast my ballot for him this november

[Great Rumbler]

Not sure *what* I was expecting. Clearly I've given you guys way too much credit.

The problem is that you're far more passionate about tearing the movie down than any of us here are in building it up.

[Himu]

Personally, when it comes to Nolan Batman movies I need the blu ray release before I can fully judge it because a lot of times i miss what they're saying those fucking accents

[MrAngryFace]

Not sure *what* I was expecting. Clearly I've given you guys way too much credit.

The problem is that you're far more passionate about tearing the movie down than any of us here are in building it up.

[Eel O'Brian]

Memento was my first Nolan movie- but I liked Prestige the best. I havent got around to watching Inception or Insomnia

i liked the prestige because

spoiler (click to show/hide)

the ending reminded me of a tales from the crypt or old ec horror comic story

[close]

[Great Rumbler]

You raise a lot of good points, Jarosh, and I even agree with a lot of them, but, and here's the sticking point for me, I go back and take the movie as a whole and still really, really enjoy it. A lot of Nolan's movies are like that: sketchy with the small details, but excellent as a single, large picture. Obviously you don't feel that way and that's fine, things would be rather dull and everyone agreed about everything. Having said that, if you're expecting a long, detailed rebuttal of your posts in this thread, then you're aren't going to get one, sorry to say.

[Eel O'Brian]

i usually don't catch huge logic flaws in big blockbuster movies until a second viewing, but the joker being able to rig an entire hospital to explode without anyone noticing just jumped right off the screen and sat down next to me for the rest of the movie

[MrAngryFace]

for the record I dont think TDKR is perfect, or an oscar contender, or Nolan's best. Im not crazy.

[Eel O'Brian]

The more recent one to come to mind is Avengers.

"Hey, we've got this mysterious cube, seems like it has almost limitless power and could change the way everyone on the planet lives. How much security do you think we need?"

"Four or five dudes, tops. Maybe that dude with the bow and arrow."

[MrAngryFace]

Dont care, THANOS! AWWW YEAH SHITS GOIN DOWN! They should loop in Wolverine and Spider-Man (if possible) for some new avengers shit

[Himu]

Spider-Man should not ever be an Avenger and Spider-Man being an Avenger is fucking gay in the first place.

[MrAngryFace]

OH GOD DAMN YOU

*wall of text here

[Eel O'Brian]

I don't like it when Spider-Man joins teams, I prefer him to be a loser who has to sew his own torn costume

Wolverine is fine, though, he's kind of a team whore

[fistfulofmetal]

OH GOD DAMN YOU

*wall of text here

did not read

[MrAngryFace]

Wolverine is like Batman- he's been on like, every fuckin team- how does he do it? I think what's hilarious about Spider-Man cameos in team based series is that hes usually all like 'wtf, why am I on a team? im just spider-man!'

[MrAngryFace]

OH GOD DAMN YOU

*wall of text here

did not read

Not even a gif? fuck YOU

[Himu]

I like Spidey being a lone wolf who does street level shit. Spider-Man just doesn't belong on the Avengers. I'm all for him with Fantastic Four though.

[MrAngryFace]

Well he WAS for a time so DEAL DUDE DEAAAAAAAAAAAALLL



or whatever, what do I care

[Eel O'Brian]

best live-action spider-man costume

[Himu]

Well he WAS for a time so DEAL DUDE DEAAAAAAAAAAAALLL



or whatever, what do I care

I know. Isn't he still an Avenger? I ignore that line  and read The Ultimates instead

[cool breeze]

Here's a good one from Emerson about TDKR and Nolan in general, really great bits he's taken from interviews with the man himself that help explain some of the typical Nolan problems:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2012/07/good_bad_or_mediocre_theres_st.html#more

Be warned, contains about 5 times as many words as my big post there. But he does have a comment section, so you can just post your LOL DIDN'T READ GIFS there.

Emerson quotes some very like-minded people (although he admits they're harsher than him), so there's a weird corroboratory vibe reading it.  Otherwise it's always entertaining to read criticism that don't come off as nitpicking or nerd "this ain't the comics" whining.
 

Has shao khan seen this movie yet? early on he mentioned how tapatalk breaks spoiler boxes so I've refrained by posting any.  But now I sorta want to to touch on nerd whining thing.

[pollo]

wow jarosh posted something more boring than opiate. didn't even think that was possible

[pollo]

maf i want you to know that i think my funniest gaf moment was when you posted about your experiences with Eve Online.

That shit had me rolling

[Cormacaroni]

So, I thought it was very very entertaining but hollow, unconvincing, had a cheap-ass, unearned ending, and featured a Batman that bears no relation to any Batman I've been reading for most of my life. Totally agree on the lack of any natural human interaction as well...the Bruce/Selina relationship was particularly hard to buy, other than on sheer 'match.com' style bulletpoints (i.e. She's hot! He's hot too! She's into cosplay! So is he! BOOM)

That lead to the whole thing feeling cold and distant. I can see Batman getting beat down, but I don't actually CARE the way I should because he is such a cipher. He only ever spoke to Rachel in plot summations so I never bought that they were that deeply in love. They barely even smiled at each other for two whole movies....

Bane was a great villain up until the ol' switcheroo at the end which made a nonsense of his whole cause - turned out he didn't really give a shit about the oppressed 99% at all and was just trying to impress some hot chick he was hung up on.

The 8 year retirement - this is the hero Gotham needs? Batman gets shot in the leg and just gives up? His whole deal is supposedly boundless determination and devotion to an ideal. Yes, it makes for an entertaining (if super predictable) story to see him torn down, then rise up...but it's alien to me. This is the tension caused by trying to have character growth in a comic character that only makes sense if it never changes.

The happy ending - very enjoyable to watch, because of course it's always nice to see the beat-down hero win and get a shot at happiness. But it wasn't organic at all. There was no internal struggle with continuing the mission. Despite the 8 year retirement, as soon as something 'interesting' happened (Catwoman appearing), Bruce just becomes Batman again. As if all he was waiting for was a hot chick or something to stroke his ego. Mere muggers or rapists literally weren't worth his getting out of bed. But once he does become Batman again, there is no agonizing over whether it is the right thing to do or not. It's all externalized in the incredibly heavy-handed bitching from Alfred. There was no 'I'm too old for this shit' or 'Oh God, Catwoman is SOOO HOT I want to sex with her but this Batman thing is getting in the way'. The big decision to quit just happens literally in a flash, with Batman offscreen. Not a single human moment of indecision or longing or anything to justify what he did, unless you count looking miserable for the entire duration of the film. It is also reasonable to ask - if he wasn't happy being an idle billionaire playboy OR a crusading CEO OR a sexy masked vigilante....why the fuck is he going to be happy sipping cappucinos in Florence or whatever? What is his conscience telling him for the rest of his life?

oh crap well past TLDR gif territory so better stop there for now.

The weirdest thing about it is that I genuinely enjoyed the crap out of it, for the most part! But for a movie that invites you to think about it, it sure gets worse and worse the more you do...

[Phoenix Dark]

[MrAngryFace]

(Image removed from quote.)

[Tasty]

The 8 year retirement - this is the hero Gotham needs? Batman gets shot in the leg and just gives up? His whole deal is supposedly boundless determination and devotion to an ideal. Yes, it makes for an entertaining (if super predictable) story to see him torn down, then rise up...but it's alien to me. This is the tension caused by trying to have character growth in a comic character that only makes sense if it never changes.

This bothered me too, as well as his retirement at the end. The Batman in the comics fights crime until he is absolutely physically unable to in like his 50's or whatever.

But let's think about this for a moment. After TDK ends, all five (?) mob bosses and their gangs have been killed/taken out by the Joker and cops. I guarantee you that was like 95% of the crime in Gotham. After that, Batman probably had almost nothing to do anyways. Especially with the Harvey Dent law or whatever.

The Gotham in the movies isn't the Gotham in the comics, the one that has always been and will always be an absolute garbage dump with a 99% crime rate or whatever, no matter what Batman does. In fitting with the actual movies, it's a bit more realistic. It can change.

Also, Bruce was close to giving up in TDK anyways so it's not like there wasn't precedence.

[Diunx]

Spider-Man should not ever be an Avenger and Spider-Man being an Avenger is fucking gay in the first place.

Hey fuck you buddy!

[Tasty]

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Is that the monk from Inuyasha?

[Cormacaroni]

The 8 year retirement - this is the hero Gotham needs? Batman gets shot in the leg and just gives up? His whole deal is supposedly boundless determination and devotion to an ideal. Yes, it makes for an entertaining (if super predictable) story to see him torn down, then rise up...but it's alien to me. This is the tension caused by trying to have character growth in a comic character that only makes sense if it never changes.

This bothered me too, as well as his retirement at the end. The Batman in the comics fights crime until he is absolutely physically unable to in like his 50's or whatever.

But let's think about this for a moment. After TDK ends, all five (?) mob bosses and their gangs have been killed/taken out by the Joker and cops. I guarantee you that was like 95% of the crime in Gotham. After that, Batman probably had almost nothing to do anyways. Especially with the Harvey Dent law or whatever.

The Gotham in the movies isn't the Gotham in the comics, the one that has always been and will always be an absolute garbage dump with a 99% crime rate or whatever, no matter what Batman does. In fitting with the actual movies, it's a bit more realistic. It can change.

Also, Bruce was close to giving up in TDK anyways so it's not like there wasn't precedence.

Yeah, I've gone through all those gymnastics as well, trying to square it. But it doesn't quite work. For a start, Batman's mission only became about organized crime because Joe Chill ended up bunking with Falcone in prison. The problems in Gotham extended far beyond organized crime, as demonstrated by Rachel to Bruce. Poverty, homelessness, petty crime, major crimes like murder and rape perpetrated by non-mob affiliated general scumbags, serial killers and madmen like Zsasz and the new breed of super-scumbags like Scarecrow...there would have been plenty to do if he'd been motivated. And why stop at Gotham? Why is it so special?

I realize that it's silly to cling too closely to the comics because this is a film, and people have to change in order to tell a proper story...but still, one of the aspects of Batman I like the most is that he treats it like a job, unlike Superman. He shows up all night, every night and just does whatever needs to be done. If he can't find anything, he keeps looking until he does. He is utterly dedicated to his mission, however crazy that may be. To me, that's THE key aspect of his character, and the most interesting. Why is he so insanely driven? What would that do to a person? At the same time, I realize that aspect is just to ensure a perpetual motion story engine in the comics.

[Cormacaroni]

To me, it should be the same basic conflict as Spider-man - everyone around telling him, you're crazy, stop the Batman shit...and Batman ignoring them all and paying the price anyway, because he thinks someone has to. In that respect, I loved the ending of TDK as much as I disliked the ending of DKR.

[Cormacaroni]

Bane's motivation: Doesn't this completely fall apart?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

What does he actually do that has any meaning after he takes over? All the rhetoric about freeing the oppressed and bringing judgement to the rich 1% and shit is exposed as meaningless once it becomes apparent that the bomb is going to kill EVERYONE no matter what. It also weakens his motivation massively when we find out he is just Talia's stooge, although I grant that that was a nice piece of storytelling with a good headfake or two, and it deepened Bane's backstory greatly.

Wouldn't it have made far more sense for him to make a ransom demand of some sort?

[close]

[Great Rumbler]

Bane's motivation: Doesn't this completely fall apart?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

What does he actually do that has any meaning after he takes over? All the rhetoric about freeing the oppressed and bringing judgement to the rich 1% and shit is exposed as meaningless once it becomes apparent that the bomb is going to kill EVERYONE no matter what. It also weakens his motivation massively when we find out he is just Talia's stooge, although I grant that that was a nice piece of storytelling with a good headfake or two, and it deepened Bane's backstory greatly.

Wouldn't it have made far more sense for him to make a ransom demand of some sort?

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Isn't his motivation the same as Ra's al Ghul's? Gotham was beyond saving so the only thing left was to destroy it. Talia had the added motivation of wanting to avenger her father's death and Bane had the added motivation of being in love with Talia, but it all came back to what Ra's was doing in BB. It was never about punishing the 1% and freeing the oppressed, that was just part of Bane's giving the people a sliver of hope before crushing it right at the last second.

[close]

[Cormacaroni]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

OK, but that makes it entirely uninteresting, and takes the teeth from most of what he does.  It makes him a stooge who merely bought into the rhetoric of Ra's al Ghul, not an independent thinker. He ultimately brought nothing new to the table in terms of ideology or themes. He was just a more bad-assed version of Ra's, with the same daft philosophy.  A genuine Marxist class warfare-advocating madman would have been much more interesting to me.

[close]

[Positive Touch]

ok the did not read gifs officially jumped the shark HARD itt.  please let them go away forever now

[Human Snorenado]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

OK, but that makes it entirely uninteresting, and takes the teeth from most of what he does.  It makes him a stooge who merely bought into the rhetoric of Ra's al Ghul, not an independent thinker. He ultimately brought nothing new to the table in terms of ideology or themes. He was just a more bad-assed version of Ra's, with the same daft philosophy.  A genuine Marxist class warfare-advocating madman would have been much more interesting to me.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You kind of had a hint that something was up before the swerve when it was revealed that the bomb was a time bomb during the scene with Fox, Tate and the other board member though- if he were truly some sort of crazy revolutionary blowing up the city would have never been his endgame- I always bought into him finishing Ra's Al Ghul's "work" as sort of proving himself after being kicked out of the League of Shadows as the real deal or whatever; obviously the swerve fucked that up but whatever.

[close]