SHENMUE FANS - let's kill ourselves, all five of us

[Himu]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/117856/Analysis_On_Shenmue__Dare_to_Be_Dull.php

[Positive Touch]

But unlike games that just fall flat and end up being dull, Shenmue 1 is dull...on PURPOSE.

  bitch go to the park

[Owl-faced Wizard]

shenmue doesn't have gameplay, it has you walking around a city asking people repetitive questions

Thanks for proving my point and exposing you know shit all about games.



Same shit. Talk to people, find out where to go, get direction, solve puzzle, get new plot advancement, get a few items, start process over.

Go back to your xbuck and play Mass of Shit 3, Positive.

Because that is clearly all you do know how to play, punk bitch.

The Secret of Monkey Island is really only nominally a game - it's better described as a set of puzzles.  It doesn't require any judgement/decisions, only problem-solving.  While we're on the subject, most rhythm games aren't best-described as games either, for similar reasons - they're purely tests of reflexes and memory.  Chess - game, Jigsaw puzzle - puzzle.
Shenmue has barely any puzzles or gameplay.

[Himu]

I dunno man. It depends on how you see it. When you talk to people you're kind of expected to use real world common sense. If you're looking for say, sailors, you don't go asking fucking Nozomi about them. You go to a bar, late at night, asking about sailors. Shenmue works in a way other games don't. It operates on real world common sense, at least the puzzles, and that's why I really enjoy it.

Also, it does have puzzles. Finding Chen and the Warehouse? That is one huge puzzle. Finding the second mirror? You have to buy batteries, grab a flashlight (either at Tomato Convenience Store or find one in your house). Then you have to find the KEY to unlock the sword in the dojo. Use the sword in the slot in the door, then you use the flashlight to explore the basement, look around for new items to grab. How is that any different from Monkey Island, in any way? It's the same shit.

But more than that, all of this is expounded upon in its sequel. In the sequel, oh man. You have to find out four codes of conduct martial artists must hold. You only know, I don't know, TWO - and that's a maybe if you haven't encountered Jianmin practicing tai chi in the park - martial artists at the outset. Then you slowly uncover all of this fucking awesome shit - through, again, exploration and real world common sense. I don't understand how this isn't considered puzzles? It's no different to me than sailing from one island, changing Guybrush's Wanted poster and getting the map chick arrested in Monkey Island 2, except Shenmue's puzzles tend to be larger scale.

Shenmue's puzzles tend to be exploration-based - as in, how the hell do I find x to achieve y? Monkey Island and its derivatives tend to be logic-based, as in, I've got x so I'll try to use it to achieve y. This does not take away from the fact that they are puzzles.

[Himu]

But unlike games that just fall flat and end up being dull, Shenmue 1 is dull...on PURPOSE.

  bitch go to the park

You think a game where you actually go to work and stack crates isn't trying to be boring on purpose? That's the entire fucking point and an element that many games are lacking: embracing the mundane. That is the entire fucking point of Shenmue.

[Himu]

God fucking damn am I in a mood to explore some Japanese harbor town and China. Fuck. Dreamcast, why have you forsaken me?

[Owl-faced Wizard]

I dunno man. It depends on how you see it. When you talk to people you're kind of expected to use real world common sense. If you're looking for say, sailors, you don't go asking fucking Nozomi about them. You go to a bar, late at night, asking about sailors. Shenmue works in a way other games don't. It operates on real world common sense, at least the puzzles, and that's why I really enjoy it.

Also, it does have puzzles. Finding Chen and the Warehouse? That is one huge puzzle. Finding the second mirror? You have to buy batteries, grab a flashlight (either at Tomato Convenience Store or find one in your house). Then you have to find the KEY to unlock the sword in the dojo. Use the sword in the slot in the door, then you use the flashlight to explore the basement, look around for new items to grab. How is that any different from Monkey Island, in any way? It's the same shit.

But more than that, all of this is expounded upon in its sequel. In the sequel, oh man. You have to find out four codes of conduct martial artists must hold. You only know, I don't know, TWO - and that's a maybe if you haven't encountered Jianmin practicing tai chi in the park - martial artists at the outset. Then you slowly uncover all of this fucking awesome shit - through, again, exploration and real world common sense. I don't understand how this isn't considered puzzles? It's no different to me than sailing from one island, changing Guybrush's Wanted poster and getting the map chick arrested in Monkey Island 2, except Shenmue's puzzles tend to be larger scale.

Shenmue's puzzles tend to be exploration-based - as in, how the hell do I find x to achieve y? Monkey Island and its derivatives tend to be logic-based, as in, I've got x so I'll try to use it to achieve y. This does not take away from the fact that they are puzzles.

Well, I was careful to say 'barely'.  Also, please understand:  I'm not trying to marginalise Shemue by saying it doesn't comfortably fit into X existing category.  I don't like Shenmue, but not-fitting-comfortably-into-well-understood-paradigms is not a reason to shit on it.

[Himu]

Shenmue rules, but I realize it's not for everyone. It even took me a while to warm up to it. So I don't have anything against anyone who says they don't like it, because I understand where they're coming from.

[Mr. Gundam]

[Momo]

Buying the fuck out of that Yakuza

[Raban]

IT'S TRUE THOUGH.

YOU KNOW HOW I SAID GAMES CAN'T BE ART BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE BORING GAMES?

Shenmue is case example number 1.

I think this is my favorite post of yours.

EDIT: Stop saying "games" and "art" in the same sentence though. Oscar kinda nailed this in the other thread where he pointed out how useless the word "art" is. People aren't ever going to agree on what the fuck that word even means, so don't use it.

What you could use instead is "affective", something with some science behind it. But your point is still right and succinct in a way I hadn't thought to put it before. There really is this notion that video games must be "fun" (another rather useless word) that prevent people from enjoying what could be meaningful experiences.

[Himu]

HEY!

Shut the fuck up about Yakuza!

Have they left Kamurocho yet?!

[Mr. Gundam]

RGG5 takes place in Sapporo, Osaka, Nakoya, Fukuoka and Tokyo.

[Himu]

need to play RGG4

[Momo]

By RGG3 you are already in Osaka

[Purple Filth]

Finally an actual game that can be discussed in here.

[Himu]

You've never played Shenmue OR Yakuza, have you, PF?

[Purple Filth]

You've never played Shenmue OR Yakuza, have you, PF?

Played Shenmue for a bit (wasn't my cup of tea at all)

Watched Shenmue 2

Watched Yakuza

[Mr. Gundam]

RGG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shenmue.

And I played Shenmue 1 and 2.

[pilonv1]

[cool breeze]

What are the chances Yakuza 5 will be released in English?

edit: lol someone on gaf said Sleeping Dogs has references to Yakuza and Shenmue and stuff.  I'd wear Kazuma's boss outfit if it's there.

[Himu]

TOLD YOU.

SLEEPING DOGS IS SHENMUE 3

[pilonv1]

TOLD YOU.

SLEEPING DOGS IS SHENMUE 3

I'm yet to see him feed a kitten

[Himu]

But he's in China, doing awesome shit. That's all I need.

If he goes on a martial arts journey where he punches trees until leaves fall, and is required to catch three leaves falling from a tree in a row as a test of patience, it will be even better! 

[bork]

But unlike games that just fall flat and end up being dull, Shenmue 1 is dull...on PURPOSE.

[pilonv1]

Himu is just a parody of himself now

[archie4208]

so you're saying chinese and japanese all look the same to you, eh himu

[Raban]

img

+1 copy sold

[Himu]

But unlike games that just fall flat and end up being dull, Shenmue 1 is dull...on PURPOSE.

[bork]

Himu: "Shen Mue 1 is dull...on purpose!  To prove my point, here's footage from Shen Mue II." 

[Himu]

Himu: "Shen Mue 1 is dull...on purpose!  To prove my point, here's footage from Shen Mue II." 

Are you stupid? Shenmue II has more action than Shenmue 1, but it still operates on similar principles.

In Shenmue I you go to work, every day, on disc 3. You get on a fork lift, pick up crates from 8 am to 12 pm, have a lunch break where you beat up dudes, then you go back to THE GRIND at 1pm and work until 5 pm.

In Shenmue II, immediately at the beginning of the game, you wake up, go to the docks at 8 am, and they have you picking up crates for an hour.

Later, in order to progress the story because MARTIAL ARTISTS NEED PATIENCE and "you need more kung fu, Ryo!" you take out books and air them from 9 am to 12 pm,  EVERY DAY, until you advance the story and leave Xiuying's apartment.

Even later in Shenmue II, you are tasked with a martial arts test: catch a leaf from the tree. You can't continue the game until you do. After that, you are forced to catch three leaves in a row.

Please tell me a counter-argument that suggests this is a game that is not trying to be as mundane as possible on purpose to immerse the player into its world.

Then I will stop treating you like you are an idiot.

"It's boring!" No fucking shit. That's the entire point, dumb fuck. When I brought up Shenmue 1 being dull, I mostly meant it's slow, plodding, and nothing ever happens. Shenmue II? Even if there are slow parts, there's still parts where you're being chased by a Chinese transsexual with a chainsaw. In comparison, Shenmue 1 is nothing BUT slow, which is hard to explain if you have not played either game.

[FatalT]

Shenmue was boring. I only liked it when it came out because it was a new type of game. Rose-tinted glasses.

[Positive Touch]

this is HoF-level embarrassment right here folks

[recursivelyenumerable]

Shenmue was the inspiration for my approach to starting new threads. I tried to make them shorter, though.

[Joe Molotov]

Shenmue was the inspiration for my approach to starting new threads. I tried to make them shorter, though.

Also there's less cat petting.

[Human Snorenado]

I think we all know the real reason Himu-chan lurves him some Shenmue

[Himu]

[Himu]

[bork]

But unlike games that just fall flat and end up being dull, Shenmue 1 is dull...on PURPOSE.

Shenmue II Part 16 Working With Books Again

Are you stupid? Shenmue II has more action than Shenmue 1, but it still operates on similar principles.

Himu has completely lost it and is now replying to himself!

[Tasty]

Title change. :'(

I feel for you Himumumu. Both our spirits have been crushed by Gamescom. 

That said, Animal Crossing is Shenmue Done Right™.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Stop comparing Yakuza to Shenmue.

Why not? I mean, Yakuza is obviously Sega's attempt to expand and improve on the failed Shenmue series.

[Himu]

Shut the fuck up Andrex.

[Himu]

Stop comparing Yakuza to Shenmue.

Why not? I mean, Yakuza is obviously Sega's attempt to expand and improve on the failed Shenmue series.

They play nothing alike and are not even remotely similar besides (the first one at least) taking place in Japan and having a semi-"open" world.

[bork]

Stop comparing Yakuza to Shenmue.

Why not? I mean, Yakuza is obviously Sega's attempt to expand and improve on the failed Shenmue series.

Yup.

[Himu]

But Shenmue and Yakuza hit completely different spots. I love both and for different reasons. Comparing the two and saying Yakuza is an improvement on Shenmue proves either three things: a. you are trolling, b. you have not played both games at length, or c. baka.

But more than that, more people have played Shenmue in the west than Yakuza.

[Himu]

Also, I like how lyte edge goes into some stupid semantic argument i don't give a fuck about

[Human Snorenado]

Animal Crossing *is* a better game than Shenmue.  And Animal Crossing is a piece of shit.

[Tasty]

Shut the fuck up Andrex.

Just tryin' to empathize with a brotha.

Animal Crossing *is* a better game than Shenmue.  And Animal Crossing is a piece of shit.

Yeah! Hey, wait...

[Himu]

Haha, I am looking forward to Animal Crossing 3ds. But it will never come out. When it does, I will add you to my friends list and we can trade fabrics like homos, Andy-kun.

[bork]

Animal Crossing *is* a better game than Shenmue.  And Animal Crossing is a piece of shit.

I dunno...Shen Mue has what...Afterburner, Hang-On, and Space Harrier?  Animal Crossing does have Punch-Out!! and Balloon Fight though, so maybe it still wins.

Also, I like how lyte edge goes into some stupid semantic argument i don't give a fuck about

Also, I like how you respond with the above after posting this block of text that nobody read:

Himu: "Shen Mue 1 is dull...on purpose!  To prove my point, here's footage from Shen Mue II." 

Are you stupid? Shenmue II has more action than Shenmue 1, but it still operates on similar principles.

In Shenmue I you go to work, every day, on disc 3. You get on a fork lift, pick up crates from 8 am to 12 pm, have a lunch break where you beat up dudes, then you go back to THE GRIND at 1pm and work until 5 pm.

In Shenmue II, immediately at the beginning of the game, you wake up, go to the docks at 8 am, and they have you picking up crates for an hour.

Later, in order to progress the story because MARTIAL ARTISTS NEED PATIENCE and "you need more kung fu, Ryo!" you take out books and air them from 9 am to 12 pm,  EVERY DAY, until you advance the story and leave Xiuying's apartment.

Even later in Shenmue II, you are tasked with a martial arts test: catch a leaf from the tree. You can't continue the game until you do. After that, you are forced to catch three leaves in a row.

Please tell me a counter-argument that suggests this is a game that is not trying to be as mundane as possible on purpose to immerse the player into its world.

Then I will stop treating you like you are an idiot.

"It's boring!" No fucking shit. That's the entire point, dumb fuck. When I brought up Shenmue 1 being dull, I mostly meant it's slow, plodding, and nothing ever happens. Shenmue II? Even if there are slow parts, there's still parts where you're being chased by a Chinese transsexual with a chainsaw. In comparison, Shenmue 1 is nothing BUT slow, which is hard to explain if you have not played either game.

You're letting the inner-fanboy take over pretty badly in this thread, himu.

[Tasty]

Haha, I am looking forward to Animal Crossing 3ds. But it will never come out. When it does, I will add you to my friends list and we can trade fabrics like homos, Andy-kun.

I just want your fruit and rugs. I will pay like an old white guy in a country club for that shiz.

[Himu]

is it true you are a mayor in Animal Crossing 3ds? How does that work

[bork]

It really says a lot when a Shen Mue thread turns into an Animal Crossing discussion.

[Himu]

Yes it says that the only thing people can do when talking about it is troll, leaving fans of the games incapable of discussing it to the point that they'd rather change the subject.

[MCD]

ITT: Nostalgia derp.

[Tasty]

is it true you are a mayor in Animal Crossing 3ds? How does that work

I assume you murder Tortimer and wear his shell. Nintendo be taking notes from S-A, yo.

[Himu]

I hope it doesn't have that gay city like animal crossing wii

[bork]

Yes it says that the only thing people can do when talking about it is troll, leaving fans of the games incapable of discussing it to the point that they'd rather change the subject.

You compare the game to Monkey Island but then say it shouldn't be compared to YAKUZA. 

You try to make some point about Shen Mue by posting footage of...Shen Mue II.

Then you go into mega-fanboy mode and of course the rest of the board swoops in to troll.

What actual discussion is going on here?  I just see posts saying that the game sucks and rants from the one guy on this board who somehow likes a game that he himself thinks is boring.

[Himu]

Almost all of my posts are rebuttals to idiotic claims and posts from people who clearly have not played Shenmue nor Yakuza. Shut the fuck up, Lyte Edge.

[bork]

Almost all of my posts are rebuttals to idiotic claims and posts from people who clearly have not played Shenmue nor Yakuza. Shut the fuck up, Lyte Edge.

No, they're not.  There have been plenty of posts clearly to the contrary here.  You're all riled up and in fanboy mode.

Again: You compare SHEN MUE to MONKEY ISLAND, but then say it shouldn't be compared to YAKUZA.