Adventures in North Korea

[Joe Molotov]

Cuba bans American tourists?

Actually it's America that bans travel to Cuba. Or at least heavily restricts it.

[Great Rumbler]

So, on a scale from communist cesspool to inexplicable socialist utopia, what was your overall impression of North Korea?

[bork]

I'd like to post some videos of the real North Korea, but they're just too damn depressing.   

[brawndolicious]

Cuba bans American tourists?

Actually it's America that bans travel to Cuba. Or at least heavily restricts it.

ah that's what I thought.

[originalz]

What is unreal about these photos or his own experience?

Indeed, I'm not going to say that I could do anything that I wanted on the trip, but I still think I got a pretty good feel for the country and its people.  Most people come into the DPRK with an agenda to serve, and will use what they've seen in such a way to paint a negative image.  Anything positive is considered propaganda and discredited instantly, so you get garbage like that Vice documentary as a "real" look into the country, despite the rest of their travel guides being seen as worthless.  Shit, give me a few days and I can come up with some footage of Japan that only focuses on poverty in Tokyo and traveling around the decaying countryside.

So, on a scale from communist cesspool to inexplicable socialist utopia, what was your overall impression of North Korea?

It's really hard to say.  I definitely saw a lot of poverty, but at the same time people seem to be satisfied with their life.  There's stability, low crime, everyone has a job, it's a hell of a lot better than lots of impoverished nations like those in Africa and Southeast Asia.  I'd say the system "works" there, but it only works because the people don't know any better.

It still does feel very old though, that was a feeling that never went away.

Anyway, lunch break!  Barbecue in the park!

Ah damn, I forgot to resize the pictures.  Don't really feel like reuploading them again so I guess you get the full-rez shots on this post.  I'll try to remember to resize the next batch.











They call it "Dragon Park", due to there being statues that construct a huge dragon which wraps around the place.







Time for some Korean Barbecue!





Duck meat seems to be the thing to barbecue in this country, we had it several times on the trip.



Your typical outdoor public toilet.  You really gotta hurry up or the insects will eat you alive.







So, next up was Kim Ill Sung's old house.



One thing that the Koreans love to express is how Kim was just a normal guy who grew up very poor, like you and me.  Truly a man of the people.





Pictures of Kim and his parents.



The family well.  I took a drink of the water.



Picture showing the young Kim going on an adventure.

[bork]

What is unreal about these photos or his own experience?

Go check out any number of videos that show footage of what North Korea is really like outside of the tours foreigners get, showing the privileged denizens of Pyongyang.  Either the footage of villages that has been recorded or the horrific stories from people who escaped the country.  The government being more tolerant of black markets seems to have helped, but you still have public executions and people dying in the streets from disease and hunger.  The footage that was smuggled out of the country backs this up.

I don't think it's that anything positive gets discredited so much as it is that there's way, way more negative things about the country that overshadow it -rightfully so- in a big way.

I also think it's fascinating that the tour originalz went on seemed to be more "open" than the tours others have been on.  Wonder if that is a result of the new Kim in power...

[bork]

I'm not derailing the thread- I simply mentioned that he was taken to and shown specific places for obvious reasons.  People who have been on these tours have in fact pointed out the "fake" nature of things so it is interesting to get originalz' perspective on it.  There's no hate on him coming from me-- he's one of my best friends.

[originalz]

Damn reds!  I swear I looked for the resize option!  For some reason it only appears if you upload from your album and not the main page, stupid user-unfriendly nonsense.  Imageshack never gave me that problem, other than the images dying fast and all...

Next time I'll def find the right option so that you don't have to mess around with these huge images!  Just suffer this last time!

Oh well, driving back to the hotel...





Near the main train station is a huge TV which shows movies and other programs, always seemed to have a lot of people watching.



The hotel elevator uses flat-touch buttons.  I think there were 47 floors or something which seems unnecessary, but the hotel was actually pretty damn busy while we were there.  The majority of tourists were Chinese from what I saw.



In the basement lies Casino Pyongyang!  It's apparently run by the government of Macau and DPRK citizens can't go in.



Loads of slots.  I went into the main casino but the big games were majhong and some Chinese card game, neither of which I knew how to play.  They also had a blackjack table but the minimum bets were 10 euro and it seems to be the style where you keep raising against the other players.  I would have played if the bets were a few euro or so, but I'm not that great at blackjack and didn't want to waste money.





One of the hotel shops.  They carried various things, from candy to shampoo.  Lots of the stuff was imported.  The purchasing system in the country is extremely backwards.



Here's a receipt.  I tried so goddamn hard to take a clear picture but for some reason my camera refused to focus.  I kept taking pics and the store staff started to look at me strange so I gave up.

Anyway they don't use computers or any machines for receipts.  You go to the counter, choose what you want to buy, and they write down the item and price.  You then bring the receipt to the front cashier, pay for your stuff, and they stamp the receipt.  You then go back to the initial counter, give them the proof of purchase, and they'll give you what you bought.  Takes forever.

Next up was exploring the Pyongyang subway system!  Lots of these pictures came out bad for some reason.



Your typical station entrance.



Station lobby.



They use an IC card system, somewhat surprising.





This thing lets you press the button to the station you want to go to and it'll light up your route and any transfers you have to make.  Not a bad idea, although it seems kind of unnecessary for a network with only two lines.



Station platform.



The trains were all quite packed, although this was a terminus station.











Inside the car.



Notice the graffiti on the glass!



Another station.  Going in the subway was a lot of fun actually, you really saw how the city moved.  Also funny to see random schoolgirls get off the platform and be absolutely shocked to see foreigners.







Back in the train!  Only one station and it's already quite full.



Something I found interesting is that I saw some people playing games on their cell phones.  No matter what the country, people need to kill time!  Tried to get a pic of the guy but it was too dark and I wasn't about to use flash, the pic came out unusable.



Another station.



Yet another one.



We got off here.













Kiosk inside the station.



Random crap to buy.



Back outside.  The outside of the stations really don't match the insides.





Public restrooms.









I guess there's no escape from overpriced tourist photo services.



Underpass.



Next was the subway museum!







The museum is less about the actual subway and more about Kim Ill Sung's influence on it.  Everything that he used is on display, from chairs that he sat on to ashtrays and flashlights that he used. The majority of the rooms banned photography to preserve the objects or some shit.

Still, there were some cool things I could get pics of...







This was a huge 360-degree diorama room.  Holy hell was it amazing, probably one of the most impressive things I've ever seen.

Next was dinner!





Streetcars all over the place.  They also seem to run extremely frequently during rush hour, you can see the upcoming tram from the stop.  The stops always had insane lines during rush hour.





So here's a story.  One of the guides mentioned that there aren't many ethnic restaurants in Pyongyang, only Chinese and Italian.  We were all interested in trying some DPRK pizza, and convinced to guides to change the dinner to the restaurant and get us reservations.  We had to pay for everything out of our own pockets, but it's the kind of experience that you really can't pass up.



I was kind of expecting some generic ugly interior, needless to say I was pretty surprised.



The majority of the menu was normal pizza choices, I chose the strangest one possible which was this ham with french fries monster.  To be honest, the pizza was a hell of a lot better than I expected.  It wasn't gourmet or anything, but it was legit enough.  The cheese was also really good.

It was night by the time we finished.





Here's something worth talking about.  Karaoke is absolutely HUGE in the DPRK.  Every restaurant seems to have a karaoke setup, and we heard the staff singing songs several times.  Karaoke is also on TV constantly.  There isn't enough programming to occupy 24-hours worth of TV space, so between normal shows and the news they just show karaoke.  I kind of got used to DPRK music after awhile and became a fan of some songs.  I bought a few CDs but didn't really know anything so just randomly bought some shit and most of them were these revolutionary songs which I'm not the biggest fan of.  I kind of regret not getting suggestions for more poppy music.

Anyway, here's a song which was very, very popular.  Almost guaranteed that it'd get sung if someone started up for a karaoke session.

[bork]

Damn reds!  I swear I looked for the resize option!  For some reason it only appears if you upload from your album and not the main page, stupid user-unfriendly nonsense.  Imageshack never gave me that problem, other than the images dying fast and all...

You have to use the "Large" option when selecting picture links.  You can also just put a lowercase L after the last part of the generated filename.  I did this for you in your post since there's too many pics and they were MASSIVE.   

[tiesto]

Indeed, I'm not going to say that I could do anything that I wanted on the trip, but I still think I got a pretty good feel for the country and its people.  Most people come into the DPRK with an agenda to serve, and will use what they've seen in such a way to paint a negative image.  Anything positive is considered propaganda and discredited instantly, so you get garbage like that Vice documentary as a "real" look into the country, despite the rest of their travel guides being seen as worthless.  Shit, give me a few days and I can come up with some footage of Japan that only focuses on poverty in Tokyo and traveling around the decaying countryside.

There's a blog called Spike Japan (http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/) that has a lot of pics of the decaying Japanese countryside, and discussions on its demographic troubles. It's kind of interesting to see the rural decay, since the average foreigner never hears anything about "ghetto" or "rural decay" when they hear about Japan.

I love reading your insight, Z. And believe me I'm jealous... going to DPRK would be an amazing experience, but I can't go since that'd cause me to lose my clearance and my job

[chronovore]

That spikejapan guy needs a goddamned editor.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[originalz]

Day 3.





First stop, the tomb of Tangun, the first king of Korea.









The man with his wife.

Moving on...





Some village.







Turtle factory.  Don't ask me.



Yup, turtles.



Frogs too!





Lunch was at the hotel's revolving restaurant.





Some cheese french fry things, I think they were pretty good.  These were the only food pictures I took here so it must have not been very interesting.

Regardless, the revolving restaurant did provide some nice views of Pyongyang.



























Back to the streets!











Off to Kaesong we go!





Kaesong was pretty cool so stay tuned!

[originalz]

On the way to Kaesong...a good 2 hour journey.  There's a highway which connects the two cities.















Stopping at a rest area.









Not much traffic on these roads.  I asked my guide about it and they said that it's because the highway is only used to go to Kaesong, and most people don't really have a reason to do so.  Makes sense.





We arrived at the tomb of some ruler of the Koryo dynasty.















It was actually quite refreshing to see that the people here are so proud of their history and preserve everything.  Many communist countries condemned the past and destroyed cultural landmarks.

After all this it was getting dark so we went to our hotel.  It was more of a traditional-style inn, actually.

Kaesong is one of the few cities that wasn't torn up during the Korean War, I guess it was a neutral zone or something.  It's an awesome place, really felt like being in a movie.







Living in Japan has made me used to sleeping on the floor, although I guess some people had trouble.









Dinner time!





Here it is, the legendary dog soup!



Dog meat is actually really goddamn good, maybe one of the best things I ate in the country.  It's not like they're hunting stray poodles or anything, these are special giant dogs bred specifically for food.



The inn's bar.



I had a shot of every single one of those bottles, within the span of 30 minutes.  Well, wouldn't be a proper trip to Korea if you didn't get completely hammered!



Snake liquor.  I thought it was pretty good, thought about bringing a bottle back but I think it would be considered bringing an animal across borders.



Dried fish, a good pair to drinking.  We eat it in Japan as well, although here they give you the entire fish to tear apart.

The next morning I walked around the streets a bit since there was some time.













All right, next up is the DMZ and more adventures in the city!

[T-Short]

(Image removed from quote.)

Not much traffic on these roads.  I asked my guide about it and they said that it's because the highway is only used to go to Kaesong, and most people don't really have a reason to do so.  Makes sense.

Might also have something to do that there's almost no private car ownership. hehe. think there was some estimate that there's only like 30000 cars at best in the country?

[Robo]

This recent batch of shots are my favorite so far.  Just amazing.

[originalz]

Oops, I went back to the States and forgot to backup my pictures to the CLOUD so no updates until I return in 2 weeks!  I'll make it worth the wait!

[chronovore]

Seriously. Keep them coming! This looks like a country that I really wouldn't mind occupying some day.

[originalz]

Yeah so I came back to the States but who would have thought that taking two long vacations in a short period of time makes the work pile-on.  Haven't had time to post any new pics but they'll be coming soon you can sure bet on it!

Anyway as the next section is the DMZ and Korean War here's a short preview video!  Real DPRK stuff right here!



From what else I read they seem to think that the Americans are partly responsible for the Japanese occupation of Korea by making an agreement with Japan to not mess with them if they leave the Philippines alone.  Considering that the Philippine occupation was based on the Spanish-American war and thus completely unrelated, I found that amusing.  Upon further research apparently there is some truth to the matter, there was an informal agreement between the two countries between a couple of people who didn't really have any decision-making power, but despite the overall irrelevance the Koreans love to jump on it to demonize the Americans.

I knew better than to bring up the finer points of the war but there were a couple of people in the group who tried to debate it with the guides, to no progress being made.  They have their own version of history, and it's simple fact for them.  They talk about it the same way that we'd talk about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, it's simple fact.  They don't go on rants against the States or make a big production, they just talk about it as this is the way things are and have always been, imagine what we'd think if some Japanese guy started telling you that Pearl Harbor wasn't instigated by the Japanese but was a counterattack from an offensive operation that's been heavily covered up, you'd think he was crazy.

[originalz]

Not really, the Japanese were basically forced into attacking the United States after the oil and steel embargo placed against them by the US, Britain, and the Netherlands. The Japanese were getting the vast majority of their oil from the United States at the time and could not continue their war in China without it. Global relations aren't as black and white as you may have been lead to believe.

I'm aware of how the embargoes affected them, but the attack was more or less a preemptive strike so that they could expand their empire into Southeast Asia without worrying about the Americans getting in the way.  They also used it as an opportunity to attack British Burma and take the oil fields there.  Japan was hardly innocent in the campaign and there's little question that they struck us first without any previous direct aggression.

[chronovore]

I love this board. I think it's great when people stay civil and respectful of each other, even when dealing with relatively high levels of anonymity.

[originalz]

I'm back and ready!

Well, I didn't mean do imply you didn't know what you were talking about. Sorry if it came out that way. I just think an opportunity to learn about WW2 via the North Korean perspective shouldn't be so readily dismissed. Most people don't get to see that viewpoint.

Oh indeed, it was a fascinating view on history.  Some of the arguments they make about the south starting the war even kind of make sense if there wasn't so much evidence against such views.  Either way, it's just a normal thing there.  It's not like they're all "THE AMERICAN IMPERIALISTIC PIGS CAME AND RUINED OUR COUNTRY", it's all very professionally done and in fact recognize that it was UN forces in conflict, not just the Americans.  I was actually kind of surprised with that, definitely less radical than I expected, but at the same time it's just simple historic fact for them.

Hell, I didn't know about that conversation about the Philippines, and although most people say that it was meaningless, who's really to know?

On the way to the DMZ...





Tank traps



Notice how the farm the hell out everything they can, even on steep hillsides.











This is apparently a DPRK-produced car.  Not bad.





The DPRK flag at the border, higher than the southern one!





Some conference room I guess.







The DMZ museum.  Nothing was in English so I didn't get much out of it.







This was the axe used in the famous axe murders.







The last signature of Kim Il Sung.



Welcome to the line!  I've been before on the Southern side, I found it interesting how there were no Southern guards on duty.  On the south, they keep making it out to be such a dangerous place where guards are constantly on duty, but I guess it's all for tourists.  The dress code is also pretty strict on the south, but no one cared on the north.  I actually joked about that with the guides.



This place looks familiar!  Heh, for most people this is the closest they get to the DPRK.









Well, I guess I saw some southern soldiers walking around.



I guess that's the ROK flag.



So close, and yet so far to Seoul.







Back to Kaesong.



We found some locals organizing for something.  One of the tour members took a picture of a girl and printed it out using a portable picture printer.  That was quite a scene, everyone in that group became extremely interested in the printer.  I'll bet that they didn't even know such a thing existed, I wonder what the locals think when they see the tourists using technology that doesn't exist in the country.



Views of Kaesong.











Kaesong was the old capital of Korea and still has a lot of preserved history, so the DPRK wants to keep things as they are and not demolish the old buildings.



The Kim Il Sung statue of Kaesong.



Off to the Koryo Museum!







Gift shop girls.



Construction work.  Notice how people are laying bricks by hand.



The Koryo museum is built on the sight of an old university, lots of old structures.  Inside the buildings are countless cultural treasures.













Korean ginseng.  Apparently Kaesong is famous for the stuff, they said it's the best in the world.  I bought some ginseng tea and snacks myself.

That's the end of that!  After that was a short stop in Pyongyang before heading to the city of Nampo, so keep watching!

[Joe Molotov]

Very neat. I've been fascinated with the DMZ since watching the Korean movie Joint Security Area back in college.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Way late to this thread, but just thought I'd mention something about that beer in case you weren't aware. The reason it tasted Western European is because it basically is. Kim Jong Il went to Germany and really enjoyed the beer, so he had a brewery (German brewery, though it was located in England) disassembled brick by brick and reassembled in NK.

I've had it here in the South and, yes, it's fucking delicious. It's hard to get and a little expensive in the south, but it blows everything made here away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taedonggang

[Verdigris Murder]

(Image removed from quote.)

This is a genuinely creepy image.

[Verdigris Murder]

But awesome pics also dude.

[originalz]

Back to Pyongyang for a quick stop...



The USS Pueblo, an American spy ship that was captured and is now proudly displayed as a trophy.  They're really happy about this thing.





Just an ordinary ship otherwise.

Next was the drive from Pyongyang to Nampo!







Just a random roller coaster!



The city of Nampo







Nampo hot springs resort














The baths were in the individual rooms, not public like I was expecting, I suppose that's not surprising though since most tourists wouldn't like that.  Really damn hot, but enjoyable.  Living in Japan has really made me fond of them!



Before dinner we did a traditional Korean-style clam bake!



Burn baby burn!  They just pour gasoline on them and light them on fire.



You can really taste the gasoline!  The smell was on me for the rest of the night as well.



Was quite a fun experience, overall.



Well, time for dinner!











Damn good chocolate, this was.



During my stay the Olympics were still in progress.  Surprisingly, they showed a good variety of sports, not just ones that the DPRK were successful in.  Kim Jong Un must have determined some of the lineup since I saw a lot of Olympic basketball.

Bonus video!  Watch some basketball with thrilling DPRK commentary!  SHOOOOOT!

[originalz]

Revival!  You know how you kind of just get lazy if you don't update something for awhile and it just dies out?  I'll never let that happen!

Exploring the Nampo countryside.





























The Nampo salt fields.















The Nampo West Sea Barrage.  Functioning as a dam and bridge across the sea, it's actually pretty impressive.

















Going to downtown Nampo...the city is a major port with a large shipbuilding industry.















Nampo's Kim Il Sung statue.





















Stopping by for lunch...





I guess the North and South can agree on some things after all!



This is such an amazing picture.  Kim looks so happy whereas Clinton just looks like he wants to get out of there.



The road back to Pyongyang.

This thread will survive forever, much like the juche ideals of the DPRK!

[Don Flamenco]

this is all very cool, but apparently tourists get a very manicured picture of the country.   Like, you wouldn't get to see the forced labor camps or get to take a free stroll through a middle/lower class area.

[chronovore]

I just spent half an hour reading about the USS Pueblo. It sounds like it wasn't prepared for what it had to face.

[originalz]

this is all very cool, but apparently tourists get a very manicured picture of the country.   Like, you wouldn't get to see the forced labor camps or get to take a free stroll through a middle/lower class area.

Somehow I don't think a guided trip of NYC would take you to Rikers Island prison or the deprived areas of the Bronx, of course they're not going to take you to questionable areas.  I'm just showing what I saw, nothing more and nothing less.

[Don Flamenco]

this is all very cool, but apparently tourists get a very manicured picture of the country.   Like, you wouldn't get to see the forced labor camps or get to take a free stroll through a middle/lower class area.

Somehow I don't think a guided trip of NYC would take you to Rikers Island prison or the deprived areas of the Bronx, of course they're not going to take you to questionable areas.  I'm just showing what I saw, nothing more and nothing less.

wow, so discussion over, just like that 

The "underbelly" of NYC is not even a tiny iota as crazy as North Korea. 

Try reading this before being like "oh, they don't actually have it so bad there" or making comparisons to anywhere in the U.S.:
http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0670023329/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1353944667&sr=8-3&keywords=north+korea

[Don Flamenco]

I didn't say that he shouldn't share his pictures, i just said that the tour is pretty much entirely planned from the places you go to the people you see, to the answers to the questions they get.  The comparison to new york seemed pretty flippant considering the differences between the two places.

[Joe Molotov]

I think it's neat to see a side of North Korea other than just "communist hellhole" like you usually think of when you think of North Korea.

[Steve Contra]

So how many cars did you see on the road besides the one you were in?

[originalz]

So how many cars did you see on the road besides the one you were in?

In all honesty it seemed like there were a lot more than what you can see in pictures, at least in Pyongyang.  Major intersections had plenty of cars waiting, and the roads could get quite busy during the evening.  The pictures really don't convey that, I did take some videos of going through the city where you can get a better picture of things.  Sure, compared to most capital cities it was nothing, but they do exist.

[bud]

is it possible to hook up with a north-korean girl?

[Don Flamenco]

is it possible to hook up with a north-korean girl?

she would be arrested and have generations of her family kept in labor camps.


apologies in advance for painting north korea in such a negative light and for seeming like I'm trying to take OP's thunder

[originalz]

is it possible to hook up with a north-korean girl?

I'm sure that absolutely nothing good would come out of it.  There were a few guys in the tour group who kept trying to hit on one of the young tour guides, to no success (they sucked anyway, shit was embarassing to watch).  I did get along with one of the guides and we had a lot of fun talking to each other, but I also had the sense to not try to go any further.  I'm sure that the guides are trained about the evils of western men and I would guess that there would be severe penalties if something was to happen.

The citizens that we came in contact with didn't speak English so maybe if you knew Korean you could try to get your game on, but again, I'm sure that they know better.