another mass shooting, now NY

[AdmiralViscen]

facebook explodes with 2nd amendment fanatics seeing this as proof they are right

[Eric P]

* 11:19: Mayor Bloomberg says some victims may have accidentally been shot by police.

and these are people who are trained.  imagine if you gave the a street full of the average American a gun then put them in this kind of situation.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-celebrates-full-week-without-deadly-mass-sh,29293/

Nation Celebrates Full Week Without Deadly Mass Shooting
UPDATE: Never Mind

[Eric P]

yesterday i got to see a dead body on my lunch break

today; this!

it's been an exciting work week in Manhattan

[Beezy]

I love the Onion so much.

[Mupepe]

I wouldn't doubt if this was some political ploy by Obama to push gun restrictions to the forefront.  He's most likely getting some brainwashed communists to sacrifice themselves for the "greater good."  It makes me sick.  If someone was there with a CHL this would have never happened.

[Diunx]

First world problems.

[Eric P]

First world problems.

this

[Eric P]

and now, the lighter side of shootings in new york

http://gothamist.com/2012/08/24/food_vendor_shooting.php

Two people were shot after an argument between food vendors about space on the street near Yankee Stadium ended in gun violence. According to reports, 52-year-old vendor Horace Coleman allegedly fired three to six shots around 1:30 p.m. Thursday in front of the Crown Diner at the corner of 161st Street and Gerard Avenue. The two victims—60-year-old newspaper vendor Douglas Watkins and an unidentified 41-year-old—were both hit in the abdomen. They are both listed in stable condition now.

Investigators told CBS that Coleman owns a water stand in the concourse area, and witnesses said Coleman was seen arguing with Watkins over the spot before the shooting. "He turned around and shot the man in the newsstand, then he turned around and shot down the block, a couple of bullets," said witness Debbie Haughton. "I don’t know whether he hit somebody. They say he hit another person. Then he turned back, leaned over the man in the newsstand, and shot him again."

Local vendor Leroy McGrant told the Post the shooting was caused by a turf war gone haywire: “One guy wanted the spot, the other guy had it, and that was what the argument was about," he said. “It’s a simple argument that got out of hand. One guy just took it too far, and lots of people got hurt.” Coleman, who previously served three years at the Clinton Correctional Facility upstate for a drugs arrest, has been taken into custody. His mother told the Post, “He’s just working hard, trying to make an honest living. He’s been selling water every day for 10 years. He’s got a family to take care of.”

[Joe Molotov]

Well, I'm definitely not getting into any arguments over parking spaces in NYC anymore.

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Unless I'm packing.

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[Phoenix Dark]

Someone on GAF was on the scene, and is being quoted by news sites

I was about 50 feet away from the guy who was killed, and it was definitely a targeted shooting. Apparently he walked right up to the guy and shot him in the head. I was one of the first there, thinking I could take my jacket off to help the guy who was shot, but he was gone already.

Just FYI, this has nothing to do with the ESB. It just happens to be right across the street from where it occurred. It's not a shooting that took place in the building, or some kind of terrorist activity. Just stating this because some would assume it's a guy who opened fire in a tourist attraction, and that was not the case.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41362327&postcount=42

[ManaByte]

Are news sites quoting the GAF thread? Because according to the TOS Evilore owns that content.

[Phoenix Dark]

Are news sites quoting the GAF thread? Because according to the TOS Evilore owns that content.

http://gothamist.com/2012/08/24/five_shot_outside_empire_state_buil.php#photo-5

[drew]

this wasn't really a mass shooting though, was it?  it's my understanding that dude shot his former coworker then tried to get away, and when confronted by police they traded shots that hit 8 more people.

[Phoenix Dark]

this wasn't really a mass shooting though, was it?  it's my understanding that dude shot his former coworker then tried to get away, and when confronted by police they traded shots that hit 8 more people.

Agreed. Alas it fits a narrative so the media is running with it

[drew]

also it should go without mentioning that owning a pistol like the one used in the murder is illegal in NYC, yet Bloomberg still mentioned gun control in his impromptu street side press conference

[Human Snorenado]

What's really depressing is that no other fellow citizens had guns to defend themselves.  The police, who are trained in these situations, managed to shoot like half a dozen innocent bystanders.  If only everyone had been armed!

[drew]

it didn't seem like their training had any effect on their real life performance, seemed like they wildly mag dumped on the perp until he was down.  which hey, is all you can really expect from any human not named Massad Ayoob. stress is a bitch.

i'd really like to see the CCTV of the confrontation

[Barry Egan]

i'd really like to see the CCTV of the confrontation

http://gawker.com/5937796/nypd-release-footage-of-shootout-with-empire-state-building-gunman

[Cerveza mas fina]

How the fuck did they hit other people at that range.

He drops so weird.

[brawndolicious]

it didn't seem like their training had any effect on their real life performance, seemed like they wildly mag dumped on the perp until he was down.  which hey, is all you can really expect from any human not named Massad Ayoob. stress is a bitch.

i'd really like to see the CCTV of the confrontation

Isn't that what police officers are basically trained to do? You keep shooting until you're absolutely sure the guy is dead?

Regardless, the gawker video shows they were like 10 feet away from the shooter and there was nobody between them. The cops fired 16 shots and 9 bystanders were injured. I don't blame the cops for missing but it does go against the argument that anybody should shoot back at a random gunman.

[Beezy]

How the fuck did they hit other people at that range.

He drops so weird.

They said most of them were hit in their legs. Apparently the bullets ricocheted. Still smh at the NYPD for shooting like movie villains, but whatever. They did what they had to.

[Joe Molotov]

If only there was a hero with a gun there to bravely take down those cops before they had a chance to shoot everybody.  :'(

[Eric P]

GOOD NEWS!

this wasn't a case of a lone nut after all!

it was good old fashioned enthusiastic cops shooting civilians!

ok, time back on the clock everyone!  we've gone over a week w/o a mass shooting

http://gothamist.com/2012/08/25/ray_kelly_9_empire_state_building_c.php

[Boogie]

16 shots fired between two officers facing a subject pointing a gun at hem is quite reasonable.

A deadly force scenario in a crowded public place is pretty much the nightmare scenario for law enforcement.

Their accuracy is unfortunate, but not surprising.  Accuracy goes to shit when the shit hits the fan.  It's called the psychological and physiological effects of stress on the human body.  There have been studies of police shootings which have found that officers tend to have a hit rate of about 35%.  It's just the way it is, folks.

There's no cause for any blame on these officers.

[huckleberry]

16 shots fired between two officers facing a subject pointing a gun at hem is quite reasonable.

A deadly force scenario in a crowded public place is pretty much the nightmare scenario for law enforcement.

Their accuracy is unfortunate, but not surprising.  Accuracy goes to shit when the shit hits the fan.  It's called the psychological and physiological effects of stress on the human body.  There have been studies of police shootings which have found that officers tend to have a hit rate of about 35%.  It's just the way it is, folks.

There's no cause for any blame on these officers.

says you, PIG!!!!

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[Madrun Badrun]

16 shots fired between two officers facing a subject pointing a gun at hem is quite reasonable.

A deadly force scenario in a crowded public place is pretty much the nightmare scenario for law enforcement.

Their accuracy is unfortunate, but not surprising.  Accuracy goes to shit when the shit hits the fan.  It's called the psychological and physiological effects of stress on the human body.  There have been studies of police shootings which have found that officers tend to have a hit rate of about 35%.  It's just the way it is, folks.

There's no cause for any blame on these officers.

These officers must be pretty good shots then, since of 16 shots fired, at least 10 of them found targets.  That's like 62% hit rate.

[Madrun Badrun]

stolen from reddit

    When the NYPD switched from Smith & Wesson revolvers, which had about a 12 lb trigger pull, to Glock semiautomatics, which have a 5.5 lb trigger pull, the NYPD found that their officers were having a high incidence of negligent discharges due to the lower weight trigger pull. Instead of altering their training, as every other police department did, and teach the officers not to put their fingers on the trigger until they're prepared to fire, they decided to re-engineer the Glock trigger to add an 8 lb resistance spring to the trigger, effectively giving it a pull weight about the same as the old revolvers (~12 lbs).

    Due to the design of the Glock's firing mechanism, using a spring-loaded striker instead of an external hammer, this didn't exactly result in a trigger that had the same feel and function of the old revolvers; it just made the trigger very cumbersome to use, especially for rapid follow-up shots. What ends up happening is the increased trigger pull weight causes the user to torque their grip on the firearm, resulting in the muzzle waving off the target for rapid follow-up shots.

    It has been documented* that NYPD officers have some of the lowest accuracy scores, both in the controlled, low-stress environment of the qualification range, as well as in real-world officer-involved shootings. This includes an incident where officers fired a total of 73 rounds at a suspect, hitting him a total of two times. That sort of performance from a police force is unacceptable.

    The NYPD are the only police department that use the modified heavy trigger in their Glock pistols. All other departments worldwide use the standard 5.5lb trigger.

    To compare the performance of their officers to another large police force, the LAPD use standard Beretta 92F (US Army designation M9) 9mm pistols, which have triggers that operate in double-action (12 lbs) for the first shot, and single-action (5 lbs) for all follow-up shots. The LAPD officers have a 51% hit rate.*

    The NYPD's modified Glocks operate in double-action for every shot with a 12 lb trigger pull, and their officers have a 15% hit rate.* *[Source: SPECIAL REPORT: FIREARMS, Aveni, Thomas; Law and Order, Vol. 51, No.8 August 2003]

    A 15% hit rate is absolutely unacceptable, especially by officers that may have to use their firearms against armed suspects in a crowded city environment, as was the case in this incident. 16 shots were fired, and 9 bystanders were struck. It's unknown how many shots struck the suspect, or how many struck no-one at all.

    Instead of training their officers to be safer users of firearms, the NYPD decided to modify their guns, which resulted in guns that are much less effective, and quite frankly, more dangerous to bystanders than the alternative.

[Beezy]

smfh...

[brawndolicious]

Yeah Glock's have a weird safety mechanism that can cause accidental discharges. Seems like it would be better idea to just add a more conventional safety rather than mess with the trigger pull.

I believe the Beretta 92f has a safety that you disengage with your thumb. Seems like it would be quick and safe enough for law enforcement.

[AdmiralViscen]

this wasn't really a mass shooting though, was it?  it's my understanding that dude shot his former coworker then tried to get away, and when confronted by police they traded shots that hit 8 more people.

this wasn't known when the thread was posted, was it?