I take back everything good back that I said about the Metroid Prime games

[TVC15]

Talk about all dressed up with nowhere to go.  My memory treated Metroid Prime MUCH kinder than it deserved to be treated.  I just popped in both games to check em out, probably the first time I've played an MP game since the year the original one came out.

Let me try to be kind first.  Presentation is top notch.  Everything is kinda low poly, but Retro works with it, and the games look very nice.  The textures are largely pretty good for a GC/PS2-era game.  The environments are moody.  The ambient noise is perfect and the soundtrack is no slouch, either.  The graphical effects are particularly nice.

Jumping is also handled pretty well.  I remember when we were all pissy because we thought jumping Metroid-style would be impossible in an FPS.  Good job at proving us wrong, Retro.

The bad:  Jesus Fuck the controls are so poorly conceived.  No dual analog really takes a giant dump on what could've been great.  Yes, I know the game is not built around dual analog controls as far as things like enemy placement goes, but you are fooling nobody if you state that these games would've been far, far better if the controls were dual analog.  It takes me out of the game so much.  Why bother with this sort of control scheme at all?  Everyone is used to dual analog FPSes at this point, so why did Retro and Nintendo think it would be okay to pointlessly fly in the face of a convention that there was nothing wrong with?  Because they are cunts, that's why.

Also, the scanning is out of control.  It is worse in MP, but it's still bad in MP2.  I hate having to go into scanner mode every 5 seconds because I am afraid I will miss something important.  Visor switching was a poor idea.  It lead to lame, annoying puzzles.  The weapon switching is similarly out of control.  It's like they said "Hay, you know how we made all those awesome puzzles with ivisor switching?  I bet if we put our minds to it we can apply a similar annoyingly awesome mechanic to weapon changing."  And they did.  And it sucks.

These games are perfect examples of shit that would be getting 5s and 6s if Nintendo's name wasn't stamped on the box.  These are not good games.  If you think they are you are probably either too attached to this franchise or to Nintendo on the whole.  And think:  I didn't even get to Metroid Prime's lame ass, backtracking late game fetch quest.

I hold out hope for Metroid Prime 3 because I believe wiimote controls can rescue this series.  Unfortunately, it sounds like they're already making non-intuitive decisions concerning button placement.  At least they'll hopefully have to take out either visor switching or weapon switching since the wiimote offers fewer usable buttons than the GC controller.

Anyway, fuck you and your shitty games, Retro.

[Christopher]

It's probably one of the most boring games I've ever played - and I WANTED to like it too

[etiolate]

Yes, I know the game is not built around dual analog controls as far as things like enemy placement goes, but you are fooling nobody if you state that these games would've been far, far better if the controls were dual analog.

Shriek bats and bosses would have been a pain with dual analog and without the system in place, you gain little with dual analog within the confines of the game.  I'm not sure where you need it.  It's not like you headshot space pirates to kill them.

I've stated before about games, if the system is set up to work within a gameplay idea and this idea is executed then it works well.  Like the lack of jump in Zelda, it's not really needed, because the game doesn't ever make you wish you could.  You don't need to headshot anything in Metroid.  It's *gasp* not a shooter. It's set at an Adventure game pace with enemies you break down through more puzzlesque means than simple mad blasting. You even see this upcoming in the third game, with disabling shields.

The main prob with Prime is that Samus is slower than she was in the side scrolling games.  I wish they would have forgotten about multiplayer, which doesn't belong in the series, and focus on giving Samus a speed boost.

The games are great because they manage to translate probably the highest quality game series into 3d and the level design puts most modern games to absolute shame.  They accomplished the nimble jumping movements in 3d, which is quite a feat. 

I think what will really show how pointless these dual analog arguments are is the third game, which will have more true mouse-look, but still contain the lock-on.  I bet people will still use the lock-on most of the time, because the system fits the game.  (Unless they really rework the game system.)

[Vizzys]

I rented it and didn't like the scanning everything. The aiming controls were archaic but you get used to them.

[TVC15]

Yes, I know the game is not built around dual analog controls as far as things like enemy placement goes, but you are fooling nobody if you state that these games would've been far, far better if the controls were dual analog.

Shriek bats and bosses would have been a pain with dual analog and without the system in place, you gain little with dual analog within the confines of the game.  I'm not sure where you need it.  It's not like you headshot space pirates to kill them.

I've stated before about games, if the system is set up to work within a gameplay idea and this idea is executed then it works well.  Like the lack of jump in Zelda, it's not really needed, because the game doesn't ever make you wish you could.  You don't need to headshot anything in Metroid.  It's *gasp* not a shooter. It's set at an Adventure game pace with enemies you break down through more puzzlesque means than simple mad blasting. You even see this upcoming in the third game, with disabling shields.

Oh, I agree, lock on would probably still be a requirement with dual analog.  My main complaint is that it does not feel natural.  When I'm playing an FPS, I want to move with the left stick (including strafing) and look with the right.  That just feels natural and that's the way it should be. 

I think the jumping thing in Zelda is a somewhat different argument.  I wish there were jumping in Zelda, and I think it would add a lot to the series, and I think it is somewhat dumb that you can't jump, but within the confines of the game's design, it works.  On the contrary, in Metroid Prime, removing a control mechanic that is in EVERY FPS with dual analog controls, for no gain at all, makes the game feel unrealistic.  Like I said, lock on would still be necessary, but please, let me look around, and strafe.  The difference, in the end, is that I can still play and enjoy Zelda despite it not having jumping, whereas I can't with Metroid Prime.

[Bacon]

Prime 1 and 2 are two of my favorite last gen games.

[The Sceneman]

Prime 1 and 2 are two of my favorite last gen games.

Same here. I like scanning shit because its all sci-fi and all of that. Maybe I enjoy games for the wrong reasons or something.

[brawndolicious]

What part didn't you like because of no dual analog?

Exploring or fighting?

They both worked well for what the designers wanted in terms of pacing and overall fun (the only challenges in this game are the puzzles and the bosses).

[MrAngryFace]

WIND WAKER > TWILIGHT PRINCESS!

[TVC15]

What part didn't you like because of no dual analog?

Exploring or fighting?

They both worked well for what the designers wanted in terms of pacing and overall fun (the only challenges in this game are the puzzles and the bosses).

I'd have to say exploring.  Even with dual analog, lock on would still be needed for combat.  Not being able to look around while you move and easily strafe, thus moving efficiently, just feels unnatural.  It's not like Zelda, either, where the game works because it is designed around not jumping.  It just feels completely wrong and ass backwards not to provide natural and standard FPS movement and looking around, and there's NO GOOD REASON freelook while moving is not implemented.

I haven't hit wind waker yet, but if I remembered MP being better than it was, who knows.

[Bacon]

The controls are fine. Metroid is filled with mostly tight corridors where free looking isn't necessary.

[brawndolicious]

Well it's not like other fps' where 99% of the time when you press a button or a trigger you're going to kill something so the exploration is more "real" in that you actually have to turn to look in every corner and the combat is hit-and-run because of this.  Works when you get those down but the beginning 2-3 hours were boring because of lack of weapons.

[Himu]

I thought the first Metroid Prime was excellent, aside from the shitty scanning and those fucking pirates.

[Human Snorenado]

HOT LOCK ON ACTION

[The Sceneman]

[Cheebs]

WIND WAKER > TWILIGHT PRINCESS!

I agree for a very odd reason. I am at the third dungeon out of ten and I am like 18 hours into it. wtf? WAY TOO LONG. Wind Waker was just the right length. TP takes far too long.

[Yeti]

The only things I didn't like about Metroid Prime:

1. Sometimes when doing the sidestep maneuver it would often have you jump instead of dash to the side, especially in the heat of battle.

2. The thermal visor/x-ray visor was a bit of overkill. They should have only had one kind of invisible object, when I got the x-ray visor it didn't really add anything new to the gameplay.

I don't get people who complain about the scanning. You only NEED to scan doors to get them to open, if you don't like scanning then don't bother with scanning all the enemies and stuff.

[ToxicAdam]

One of the main reasons I picked up the Gamecube was for this game. Since I bought it in 2004, I have picked it up 3 times, only to quit after 2 hours of uninspired play.

But damn, what a travesty in controls and pacing. Like White Man said, the presentation is top notch .. and you definitely get the "feel" for being in desolate outer space on the first level. Once you make it to the planet, it becomes an utter borefest. All the colors are kind of muted/washed out, the scenery is very generic. Even as you gain new powers, it doesn't really help the controls feel any better.

I only fought two bosses, but both of them (while nice looking) offered no type of challenge or anything unique. Maybe the years of playing fast- twitch FPS has ruined me for MP.

[etiolate]

it becomes an utter borefest. All the colors are kind of muted/washed out, the scenery is very generic.

wtf? The enviroments on the planet were awesome.  No repeatitive rooms, great geometry, and just cool areas.