Sony used games block patent

[maxy]

copy-paste from gaf

Sony has been working on new technology for limiting used game sales, and has applied for a patent. The patent was filed 09/12/2012 by SCEJ.

According to the present embodiment, realized is the electronic content processing system that reliably restricts the use of electronic content dealt in the second-hand markets. As a result, the dealing of electronic content in the second-hand markets is suppressed, which in turn supports the redistribution of part of proceeds from sales of the electronic content to the developers. Though in the following description a game application (AP) is exemplified as the electronic content, the present embodiment is similarly applicable to various kinds of electronic content such as an office suite, images, and music content.

By employing the game playing system 1000 according to the present embodiment, the use permission tag 220 together with the game disk 210 is supplied to the user, and the use permission tag 220 actively determines the use permit/rejection of electronic content. Thereby, the use of game AP stored in the game disk 210 can be restricted as appropriate according to the attribute of a reproduction device. Consider, for example, a case where used is a game package 200 distributed in the second-hand market. Then the ID of reproduction device for the game disk 210 differs from the legitimate use device ID stored in the use permission tag 220, so that the game disk can be reproduced in a mode which is predetermined for those bought and sold in the second-hand market. Also, for example, a content key may be supplied to the reproduction device 130 and the encrypted game AP may be decrypted using the content key only if the reproduction device ID matches a legitimate use device ID. Hence, use of game APs bought and sold in the second-hand market can be eliminated.

It works by supplying a contactless RF tag with each copy of a game (NFC?), which can (independent of a network connection), remember if a game has been tied to a different machine or user account previously. The system checks with the tag before playing the game.

the application refers to a system that can tie a game to your user ID (i.e. your account), or a machine ID via the RF tag.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2013/0007892.html

VG24/7 asked Sony for comment

UPDATE: Sony has issued a ‘no comment’ reply on the below story. Treat this as you will[./quote]

[archnemesis]

Yes, this is stupid and a good way to lose customers.

[maxy]

Squeezing more out of existing consumers is fun.

[pilonv1]

At least Microsoft will probably be a little more subtle about it.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

The anti used games crusade grinds my gears more than any other gaming topic.

[archnemesis]

I'm equally passionate about region locking.

[Don Flamenco]

have fun implementing that and getting even further away from the PS2 glory days.

[Eel O'Brian]

Not surprising. There were so many rumors about this stuff last year you just knew some of it had to be true. This particular system might just be for Sony-published games, but I'd imagine both companies are going to implement some variation on this type of thing for all games.

[Eel O'Brian]

This won't last long, btw. They'll try it, people will flip shit, then they'll furiously backpedal and drop it .

[Don Flamenco]

you'd think mega corporations would have some kind of failsafe against using this kind of shitty logic.  it's about as useful as combating piracy. 

[Eel O'Brian]

It's fun to watch them publicly flail and "bubububu" when they try this kind of thing, though.

[Diunx]

Meh no one will implement something like this anytime soon, just more patenting for the sake of patenting

[Tasty]

I don't really care, but this is pretty lame. Also, I can see some big lawsuits about this.

[Mr. Gundam]

That takes a lot of the fun out of shopping in Japan. 

[maxy]

The documentation goes into detail about Sony's desire and past efforts to "suppress" second hand game sales, and notes that the technology is a neat alternative to a simple password or Online Pass solution.

"Where the reproduction device [console] is not connected to the internet, use of the content cannot be controlled," the text states. As for a simple passcode feature, "users may communicate to share the password between them and therefore the second-hand sales and purchases cannot be eliminated reliably."

Sony aims for its new technology to be able to change that.

[Tasty]

The documentation goes into detail about Sony's desire and past efforts to "suppress" second hand game sales, and notes that the technology is a neat alternative to a simple password or Online Pass solution.

"Where the reproduction device [console] is not connected to the internet, use of the content cannot be controlled," the text states. As for a simple passcode feature, "users may communicate to share the password between them and therefore the second-hand sales and purchases cannot be eliminated reliably."

Sony aims for its new technology to be able to change that.

[mjemirzian]

Don't like it, don't buy it.

99% of the nerd outrage will not lead to a lost sale

[Human Snorenado]

I'd invite y'all to the PC world future where you can get shit cheaper sometimes within a week of launch, but a lot of you bitches that are up in hurr qq'ing over this are the same douchenozzles bitching about "smug pc gamers" over in Lager's thread, so really just eat a dick and enjoy what your precious console overtards are giving you, good and hard with no lube.

[archnemesis]

Looking out for consumer rights is not nerd outrage.

[Purple Filth]

"IT WILL BE LIKE STEAM" 


tbh i dont by used anymore really  or resell stuff so its not bothering me as much, but i can see other people having issues (especially if there is no "sanctioned" way to resell these things after this thing comes into play).

[cool breeze]

The only real benefit to consumers is if you get a installed/digital copy with the retail disc.  Otherwise 

It'll get confusing when you want to take your game to a friend's house, unless it's tied to the account, and maybe has limited activations like bad old securom.  Then maybe there's a revoking tool too.  Ah, everything old is new again.

[Mr. Gundam]

1. What does this do to rental systems like Gamefly and Redbox?
2. What does this do the Japanese market? Rentals are illegal over there and because of this, the second hand market is huge.

[archnemesis]

1. It would force them to abandon Sony products and instead only promote games on platforms from Nintendo and Microsoft.
2. Maybe they'll stick to pachinko or something?

[Eel O'Brian]

- lots of stickers saying "Requires Internet Connection and $__ Pass Key (available at register)"

[maxy]

Don't like it, don't buy it.

99% of the nerd outrage will not lead to a lost sale

Nerds are not the only ones hit by this.In fact nerds are the least affected category.

Most affected categories:
-kids
-parents with kids
-everyone that has gamer friends

Most unaffected categories:
-Gamestop
-Gamestop
-Gamestop
They will happily sell codes supplied to them by Sony/publishers

2. What does this do the Japanese market? Rentals are illegal over there and because of this, the second hand market is huge.

Sony announces "Japan is all yours,Nintendo"?

[Steve Contra]

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it in action.  Companies patent bad ideas all the time that never come to fruition.  I do like seeing nerd rage however.

[originalz]

Heh, and the Japanese were pissed because the Xbox scratched game discs and reduced their resale value.  It would be really interesting to see how this goes if true...I can't imagine Sony being so ignorant of their home market...

[Mr. Gundam]

Used games in Japan are a thing of beauty. I love the discounts I've got on used games over there for "defects" that I still have yet to discover.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Everyone that says "oh well i don't really trade games anyway": fuck yoooooouuuuu! Why are gamers so passive about something that would be viewed as a heinous violation of consumer rights in any other industry? Doesn't matter that it doesn't really affect you. People should care that they are having the option taken away to do what they want with things they own.

[Eel O'Brian]

i'd bet most of them are lying about not trading/selling, to score some sort of ephemeral message board credibility

[BobFromPikeCreek]

I can't even believe we still have games that block content from used copies. How are people not just constantly freaking the fuck out about that? Ugh. Gamers.

[Stoney Mason]

i'd bet most of them are lying about not trading/selling, to score some sort of ephemeral message board credibility

I'd go with the message board credibility thing. I do know people who collect videogames but that's a very very small percentage of people. Most people don't treat videogames as family heirlooms to be passed down to their children.

I collected that shit for a long time and then took an honest look at myself and said wtf am I doing. I got rid of all that shit a few years ago. I only keep what I'm actively playing not that there is anything wrong with having collections especially for the retro systems that aren't in vogue anymore.

But back on topic most of those people looks at devs as gods and anything that is needed to sustain them should be happily cheered on by us lucky consumers.

My attitude is I'll take a poison pill occasionally, but I know its a poison pill. I don't pretend its candy.

[Eel O'Brian]

yeah, a lot of the opposing arguments fall apart when you point out that this type of DRM would preclude loaning to friends/family, as well - perhaps even if you had two systems in the same house

of course there are strident manchildren who would respond to that with "your friend/brother/etc should buy their own copy and support the industry which has given so much to us MOM THAT FUCKING POT PIE AIN'T GONNA COOK ITSELF"

[Don Flamenco]

i buy two copies of every game.   One to play and one to support the game industry. 

[Eel O'Brian]

I was trying to keep a collection of WWII games at one time, but man there's an awful lot of shit out there

[Don Flamenco]

i had a ton of shit for all 3 last gen systems and a bunch of retro consoles about 7 or 8 years ago.  Went nuts after I joined CAG...yard sales, thrift shops, pawn shops, clearance sales at places before the entire internet was watching for clearance sales at stores, etc.  It was actually a lot of fun going on the hunt for stuff.   EBgames.com had a morning update where all kinds of stuff popped up in real time, just hit F5 and shit would appear!  This was before GS and EB merged.  They had everything from SNES/Genesis to last gen, I think.   Scored many SNES + DC games for cheap through that.   

then i took a look at it one day and realized that a) i'd never play all of it, b) it was worth a lot, c) nobody should own that many PS1 RPGs.  sold.

kinda regret getting rid of the X'Eye though.

[Eel O'Brian]

now, thanks to the miraculous steam future, we can all own hundreds of games we will never play without ever having to actually see them

[Don Flamenco]

now, thanks to the miraculous steam future, we can all own hundreds of games we will never play without ever having to actually see them

i was just thinking "I wish I could just will that stuff into existence every once in a while....oh right, my HDD has entire catalogues of games for some of those systems."   

[Eel O'Brian]

well, if collecting is someone's bag, i'm not gonna dog on them in any way, i can totally understand the thrill behind the hunt

i used to have dozens of comic boxes full of shit i was going to flip through once, bag up, and never read again

[Huff]

any large collection of games, magazines, etc is only still in my possession because I'm lazy and it's easier to keep where it is then either trash it or try to sell it

I imagine this is a common situation

[Don Flamenco]

the hunt started to suck in my area.  Everybody and their mom started raiding all the retail stores and a lot of pawn shops caught on that they were selling highly valuable games.  I started hearing "we had games, but some guy knocked on our door before the sale started and bought all of it" at garage sales.  no way was I gonna do that desperate shit. 

[Human Snorenado]

the hunt started to suck in my area.  Everybody and their mom started raiding all the retail stores and a lot of pawn shops caught on that they were selling highly valuable games.  I started hearing "we had games, but some guy knocked on our door before the sale started and bought all of it" at garage sales.  no way was I gonna do that desperate shit.

Flea markets, man.  A truly awesome display of humanity if ever there was one.  I've seen some crazy shit being sold at the one near my place.

[benjipwns]

I keep most everything (games, books) but that's the way I am. I think I have one friend who really keeps all of his games (but he ditches the boxes and keeps discs in a big book), most people I know keep maybe a few games they really love or play regularly and then have a cycle of trading back in to cut the cost on the next game until they beat that one and repeat.

Those people are probably buying more full price at release date copies than I am with all these Steam and Amazon sales and Gamersgate fuckups. Even if they don't have plastic tubs of shit and hundreds of Steam games.

[maxy]

I can't believe so many people buy GameStop's "trade in credit funds new game sales" justification so completely. Sure, people may put trade in credit towards a new game, but it's a vanishing amount the more you do it. You get so little in trade that it only takes about two or 3 generations of transactions to run out of credit. The fact is GameStop literally siphons off about 2 billion dollars a year from the industry. That is money they have taken out of the hands of publishers, developers and consumers. Anyone can do the math and see the false economy at play. The idea that gamers wouldn't be able to buy new games is as much a myth as the idea that the pricing of new games wouldn't change in the absence of a used game after market.

[benjipwns]

I didn't mean to suggest that they're actually saving a ton of money, just that they think they are because they're looking at what they're paying on each new game individually. I think there would be an effect where because of that they won't buy as many games at full price. I don't know how big it would be though. In my lone anecdote (which is therefore a strongly representative sample size) these are the same people who are actually buying Ass Creed and Halo on release week. I could rationalize them cutting out the Max Payne 3's or whatever because they aren't "saving" anything to get them.

Again though, no clue how big of impact it would be. It would probably hurt GameStop more than the publishers though.

[maxy]

hehe

[Human Snorenado]

I can't believe so many people buy GameStop's "trade in credit funds new game sales" justification so completely. Sure, people may put trade in credit towards a new game, but it's a vanishing amount the more you do it. You get so little in trade that it only takes about two or 3 generations of transactions to run out of credit. The fact is GameStop literally siphons off about 2 billion dollars a year from the industry. That is money they have taken out of the hands of publishers, developers and consumers. Anyone can do the math and see the false economy at play. The idea that gamers wouldn't be able to buy new games is as much a myth as the idea that the pricing of new games wouldn't change in the absence of a used game after market.

...which whack ass gaffot said this?

[maxy]

One of the biggest internet Sony defenders,Brad Grenz

[Don Flamenco]

they literally siphon off the industry.  they have a little hose connected to the industry's cash flow, and they suck money out of it into a separate container.

[chronovore]

I'm equally passionate about region locking.

God, I fucking hate region-locking.