Author Topic: Randy Pitchford, a poor man's Denis Dyack  (Read 44442 times)

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ManaByte

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #180 on: February 14, 2013, 02:34:08 PM »
They had time to reference Spaceballs, but not make a good game:
CBG

Huff

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #181 on: February 14, 2013, 02:38:29 PM »
rumbler, i was kinda surprised at the original thread and you buying it right away as from leaked reviews it sounds like garbage

had you already bought the steam key before hearing about the shittiness of this game?
dur

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #182 on: February 14, 2013, 02:45:34 PM »
rumbler, i was kinda surprised at the original thread and you buying it right away as from leaked reviews it sounds like garbage

had you already bought the steam key before hearing about the shittiness of this game?

Bought it Wednesday of last week from GMG, got the key a day later. The ugly truth didn't really start to come out until Sunday and Monday of this week.
dog

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #183 on: February 14, 2013, 03:04:51 PM »
They had time to reference Spaceballs, but not make a good game:
(Image removed from quote.)


au contraire-- they made a bad game, but the reference to Spaceballs made it a good game

Sho Nuff

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #184 on: February 14, 2013, 03:32:19 PM »


From Rab Florence  :lol

Steve Contra

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #185 on: February 14, 2013, 04:03:12 PM »
This definitely puts Gearbox's "we made the best game we could from a bad situation" in regards to DNF in a new light.
vin

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #186 on: February 14, 2013, 04:11:17 PM »
To be fair, DNF probably really was an awful, awful situation. Gearbox didn't do much to help it, though.
dog

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #187 on: February 14, 2013, 06:10:55 PM »
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/gamereport/aliens_colonial_marines_utFzud6bSAPpIjIucF7YOO#axzz2KqOjw9Cz

Quote
Let me sum up our forthcoming review quite simply: Don't buy Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Don't consider it. Don't even let your brain ponder it.

What Gearbox has done is effectively a massive bait & switch. It feels like fraud.

It looks like fraud too.

Did you post a link to the New York Post? :rofl
That's like making a political argument and linking to Breitbart. :rofl

Or like making a political argument and linking to the New York Post

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #188 on: February 14, 2013, 06:15:46 PM »
GreatRumbler stop playing this game, I keep seeing you on Steam subjecting yourself to this assrape

The true horror of this game needs to be seared into my brain, so that I never ever feel like maybe it wasn't so bad after all and that I should go back and try to replay it.
dog

Bebpo

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #189 on: February 14, 2013, 06:26:06 PM »
To be fair, DNF probably really was an awful, awful situation. Gearbox didn't do much to help it, though.

Or Gearbox is a mediocre FPS studio that's made a couple of good games and a lot of bad ones. 

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [ronpaulitshappening.gif]
« Reply #190 on: February 14, 2013, 10:12:10 PM »
dog

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #191 on: February 15, 2013, 12:39:44 AM »
Updated the thread title and OP to properly reflect the quality of the game.
dog

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #192 on: February 15, 2013, 04:24:13 PM »
i just bought the newest AvP game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
nat

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #193 on: February 15, 2013, 04:47:26 PM »
Saw a few people buying this today whilst in the local city - complete with "oh wow - Aliens - i saw that advertised. Let's get it"

O=X

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #194 on: February 17, 2013, 12:10:06 PM »
the first level is... ok.

then the second level.

 :-\
nat

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #195 on: February 17, 2013, 03:08:55 PM »
There are moments in this. Fleeting moments where you can sit back and say "yeah that was cool." Well mostly if you're already a fan of the Alien(s) franchise... mostly.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 03:11:39 PM by fistfulofmetal »
nat

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #196 on: February 17, 2013, 07:35:13 PM »
That stealth sequence wasn't so bad.

Maybe my expectations are just so so low, but all the areas where you face XENOS aren't that bad.

But I believe I know where the game is going next and I am not happy.
nat

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #197 on: February 18, 2013, 02:33:52 AM »
does anybody want to start a list of quagmire games.  Shit that was eventually shoved out the door years late, knowingly shitty, possibly by a different studio that began the game just because the damn thing was a money pit and the publisher needed to have at least something to show for it.  Something like this...

-Aliens Colonial Marines
-Inversion
-Quantum Theory
-Rogue Warrior
-Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
-NeverDead
-The Cursed Crusade
-Duke Nukem Forever
-Splatterhouse
-Alone in the Dark
-Dark Void

feel free to add your own.

chronovore

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #198 on: February 18, 2013, 03:26:16 AM »
Bubsy 3D

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #199 on: February 18, 2013, 09:45:06 AM »
Wii U
©@©™

demi

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #200 on: February 18, 2013, 10:20:28 AM »
does anybody want to start a list of quagmire games.  Shit that was eventually shoved out the door years late, knowingly shitty, possibly by a different studio that began the game just because the damn thing was a money pit and the publisher needed to have at least something to show for it.  Something like this...

-Aliens Colonial Marines
-Inversion
-Quantum Theory
-Rogue Warrior
-Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
-NeverDead
-The Cursed Crusade
-Duke Nukem Forever
-Splatterhouse
-Alone in the Dark
-Dark Void

feel free to add your own.

Defiance
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fat

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #201 on: February 18, 2013, 10:47:19 AM »
crackdown 2?
sup

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #202 on: February 19, 2013, 04:44:09 PM »
So...yeah, Randy Pitchford is currently waging a Twitter war against people who don't like Aliens: Colonial Marines, going so far as to block just about anyone that sends a message to his Twitter account saying they didn't like it or question his promotion of it [including writers for Destructoid].
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:30:27 PM by Great Rumbler »
dog

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #203 on: February 19, 2013, 05:17:27 PM »
that guy is sketchy.  That magic trick presentation about fooling people's perceptions seems very devious in retrospect, like he's some kind of villain. :lol 

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #204 on: February 19, 2013, 05:30:48 PM »
It should go without saying at this point, but there's no way I'm buying another Gearbox game until it gets Bore approval.
dog

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #205 on: February 19, 2013, 05:37:02 PM »
anyone know if you can run pirated Borderlands 2 packs with an official steam copy of the game?

drew

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #206 on: February 20, 2013, 02:23:14 AM »
i can't even make it through this game, can't do this to myself anymore.  I have it rented till friday and am seriously considering just putting it in the dropbox a couple days early...

Cormacaroni

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #207 on: February 20, 2013, 02:24:08 AM »
Too Human
vjj

chronovore

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #208 on: February 20, 2013, 03:36:02 AM »
Looks like users are taking matters into their own hands, at least where they can:
http://kotaku.com/5985102/pc-modders-still-hard-at-work-fixing-aliens-colonial-marines

i can't even make it through this game, can't do this to myself anymore.  I have it rented till friday and am seriously considering just putting it in the dropbox a couple days early...

A wise man knows when to walk away from a fight from which there is no chance of victory.

maxy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #209 on: February 24, 2013, 12:20:43 PM »
Quote
An anonymous writer, who has been regularly spilling details from within SEGA on the blog SEGA Awakens, has addressed the ongoing Aliens: Colonial Marines saga, adding fresh perspective and blaming SEGA, TimeGate, and Gearbox in different ways. Mostly Gearbox, though.

I've independently corroborated the blogger's information using my own resources, which is why I'm confident enough to share his rather valuable insight. In his blog, the man writing under the alias "Bryan Danielson" states that the torrent of rumors following Colonial Marines' release are "99% true," but wished to correctly apportion the blame.

In an engrossing read, the writer separated the culpability of the three main entities involved, detailing exactly how SEGA, TimeGate, and Gearbox messed up. He begins with TimeGate, the studio rumored to be responsible for most of Aliens' development under Gearbox's command.

"TimeGate is at fault for: Wanting to even take on this project and their shoddy work," Danielson wrote. "Granted, I heard about their claims about Gearbox having full creative control, but they should have tried to show their side of the argument and fight more if they had problems with Gearbox's creative control and creative direction.

"Honestly, I thought they should have risked some arguments and the possibility of losing the contract, if they had problems with the project like the Reddit poster said. However, there still is a chance of their claims being a lie or a half truth, but as I said above, TimeGate has some responsibility."

The whistle blower addressed the idea of TimeGate throwing out Gearbox's original project work when it took over, but could only offer speculation. The possibility is entertained that TimeGate may not have been legally allowed to use Gearbox's work, but it's also entirely possible the new studio decided to start again from scratch for some other reason.

"SEGA is at fault for: Announcing the project in 2007 when no work was done at all," he continued. "In my views, a game project should be announced publicly when it is 50-60% done, so you won't have to wait 6 years for a game that turns out to be shit.

"SEGA is also responsible for not permanently cancelling the game in 2008. I don't know who found out about the mishandling of funds by Gearbox, but [canceling Colonial Marines] had to be one of the few right decisions the board has done, or this person is one of the few board members who knew what they were doing (from what I heard, this person may have left the board a while ago when SEGA decided to start the project again). This game should have been cancelled permanently, and the final product is undeniable proof of it.

"Despite that, I believe SEGA wanted to try to get some of the money back, at the fans' expense. So another blame for SEGA there. SEGA should have also watched the project and development a lot better, because there was a lot of warning signs that said this was a disaster in the making. So whoever was assigned to watch Gearbox and the game has some responsibility too, unless the board was forcing him to do it. SEGA and their lawyers also have some blame on the wording of the contract too, but more on that later."

The blog then moves onto the main event, addressing the involvement of Gearbox Software and its CEO, Randy Pitchford. In no uncertain terms, the studio is accused of robbing its publisher and lying to its face.

"Now here is the company that should get most of the blame: Gearbox Software and Randy Pitchford. Gearbox stole from SEGA, they robbed us, lied to us about the game, and tried to get another company to make the game instead. Let's see where the funding went shall we? Everyone said the game went to both Borderlands games, but Duke Nukem Forever gets a mention as well, but it's pushed out of the spotlight, because people want to forget about that game, and I don't blame them! Duke Nukem Forever had a big impact on Aliens: Colonial Marines as well."

A Gamasutra article was used to back up the claim. The article in question is an interview with Pitchford, in which he explains how his studio got the rights to Duke Nukem Forever.

"It clearly shows that Pitchford and Gearbox wanted to focus heavily on Duke Nukem Forever, but how would they get the money to hire some of the 3D Realms team and even buy the intellectual property? Sure, they made a lot from Borderlands, but guess where they got the money to fund Borderlands in the first place? Yup, SEGA.

"So Gearbox essentially lied to SEGA, mishandled funds, broke agreements and contractual obligations to work on other projects, didn't want to work on a game they were contractually obligated to work on and gave it to another team, poor organization and direction on ACM, took on too many projects from different companies at once, and other things that we may not even know about. Hell, part of me believes that Gearbox wanted this thing delayed as much as possible so they can get more funding money to embezzle from SEGA."

Danielson concludes by saying he's heard rumors of possible legal action being taken by SEGA, but admits the contract may preclude such a step from being taken. All Gearbox apparently had to do was ship the game to fulfill the agreement, which it's now done. He added that SEGA should have canceled A:CM and taken the studio to court, rather than try to make the fans pay for the investment. The writer even goes so far as to suggest SEGA ought to have published Borderlands, given it paid so dearly for it.

"In this case, what happened clearly was SEGA had a decent eye on the project, rightfully cancelled it, when they saw the problems, then someone decided to restart the project, leading to this massive mess," he concludes. "Where is our money Randy? We should get sales from Borderlands 1 and 2, since it was our money that funded it."
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml
cat

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #210 on: February 24, 2013, 10:51:14 PM »
dog

Positive Touch

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #211 on: February 24, 2013, 11:05:57 PM »
does anybody want to start a list of quagmire games.  Shit that was eventually shoved out the door years late, knowingly shitty, possibly by a different studio that began the game just because the damn thing was a money pit and the publisher needed to have at least something to show for it.  Something like this...

-Aliens Colonial Marines
-Inversion
-Quantum Theory
-Rogue Warrior
-Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
-NeverDead
-The Cursed Crusade
-Duke Nukem Forever
-Splatterhouse
-Alone in the Dark
-Dark Void

feel free to add your own.

final fantasy 13 :cookiem
pcp

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #212 on: February 24, 2013, 11:07:48 PM »
X-Men Destiny
dog

benjipwns

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #213 on: February 24, 2013, 11:21:46 PM »
Limbo of the Lost

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #214 on: February 25, 2013, 01:54:05 AM »
And then there's this:

http://www.gatheryourparty.com/articles/2012/11/12/pound-of-flesh/



That movie is from 2006 [Borderlands 1 is from 2009].
dog

Flannel Boy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #215 on: February 25, 2013, 06:55:33 AM »
Quote
"So Gearbox essentially lied to SEGA, mishandled funds, broke agreements and contractual obligations to work on other projects, didn't want to work on a game they were contractually obligated to work on and gave it to another team, poor organization and direction on ACM, took on too many projects from different companies at once, and other things that we may not even know about. Hell, part of me believes that Gearbox wanted this thing delayed as much as possible so they can get more funding money to embezzle from SEGA."
For there to be embezzlement here, among other things, SEGA will have had to have retained ownership of the funds it gave to Gearbox, which is almost certainly not the case.

Stoney Mason

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Positive Touch

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #217 on: February 25, 2013, 04:16:51 PM »
eternal darkness  :cookiem :cookiem
ico :cookiem :cookiem :cookiem
pcp

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #218 on: February 25, 2013, 04:31:15 PM »
I doubt Gearbox did anything illegal here.  Kind of falls on SEGA for being foolish with their money, something that comes all too naturally for them.

I dunno, if SEGA can show that Gearbox took money they gave them for Colonial Marines and spent it on Borderlands 1/2, isn't that a fairly clear breach of contract?

("if")
乱学者

Great Rumbler

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #219 on: February 25, 2013, 04:39:17 PM »
Sega: Here's $30,000,000 to make a game.
Gearbox: Cool!

*seven years later*

Gearbox: Here's a game we spent $10,000,000 on, by the way the other $20,000,000 was spent on something else entirely that you won't get any of the profits from.
Sega: :maf

I suppose it'll come down to how the contract is worded and what Sega can prove.
dog

ManaByte

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #220 on: February 25, 2013, 05:04:03 PM »
So apparently Craig Harris had something to do with the game on Sega's side:
https://twitter.com/crankycraig/status/300123872768966657
CBG

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #221 on: February 25, 2013, 05:04:14 PM »
That's pretty much it.  And you know what?  Even if the contract had something in there to make it embezzlement, Sega might get offset or precluded from collecting (not sure which)--at the very least, definitely off set--IF they weren't diligent in keeping track of the project.



but as the dude says "You're not wrong [Randy], but you're still an asshole." 

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #222 on: February 25, 2013, 05:05:24 PM »
So apparently Craig Harris had something to do with the game on Sega's side:
https://twitter.com/crankycraig/status/300123872768966657


...and Giancarlo Valdes never spoke to Craig again.

ManaByte

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #223 on: February 25, 2013, 05:26:51 PM »


Marketing? He was probably the guy who signed Brandon Justice's bribe check.
CBG

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #224 on: February 25, 2013, 05:56:19 PM »
I doubt Gearbox did anything illegal here.  Kind of falls on SEGA for being foolish with their money, something that comes all too naturally for them.

I dunno, if SEGA can show that Gearbox took money they gave them for Colonial Marines and spent it on Borderlands 1/2, isn't that a fairly clear breach of contract?

("if")

Cash is fungible

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #225 on: February 25, 2013, 06:03:28 PM »
cash is fungible but this is not a $30 million game :lol


man, i kinda wish this would go to court.  interesting stuff.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #226 on: February 25, 2013, 06:10:06 PM »
cash is fungible but this is not a $30 million game :lol


man, i kinda wish this would go to court.  interesting stuff.
How much did Too Human cost to make?
The defense rests.

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #227 on: February 25, 2013, 06:11:21 PM »
cash is fungible but this is not a $30 million game :lol


man, i kinda wish this would go to court.  interesting stuff.
How much did Too Human cost to make?
The defense rests.

much as Gearbox did for 6 years
乱学者

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #228 on: February 25, 2013, 06:17:36 PM »
cash is fungible but this is not a $30 million game :lol


man, i kinda wish this would go to court.  interesting stuff.
How much did Too Human cost to make?
The defense rests.


wouldn't that be the Canadian government v. SK?    Don't they live off of some grant/subsidy? 

also a lawsuit I'd like to see, though i don't know shit about your legal system.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #229 on: February 25, 2013, 06:50:00 PM »
cash is fungible but this is not a $30 million game :lol


man, i kinda wish this would go to court.  interesting stuff.
How much did Too Human cost to make?
The defense rests.


wouldn't that be the Canadian government v. SK?    Don't they live off of some grant/subsidy? 

also a lawsuit I'd like to see, though i don't know shit about your legal system.
They never did get the grants.

We both have common law systems (except for Quebec), derived from hundreds of years of English case law. Canada's civil statutes (e.g., securities acts, corp acts, privacy acts, etc.) are often modeled after similar acts in other common law jurisdictions, like America.

It's been four or five years since I took contracts or torts, so I'm a little rusty. The amount of money SEGA gave Gearbox seems irrelevant in the absence of a condition in their contract that Gearbox was to use x dollars in development (for business efficacy and based on industry standards, a term can be implied that a certain level of funding is required, but I'd hate to hear the expert evidence on that issue). The contract probably contained milestones and such, but if the milestones were met, what's SEGA's case? That the game sucked? Outside of technical requirements, how much assurance can a developer give a publisher that its product will be good? 


chronovore

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #230 on: February 25, 2013, 07:18:35 PM »
One of the thing Bungie's contract with Activision has stated repeatedly and publicly is that they're only allowed to use 5% of their staff for projects which are not Destiny. Activision can mandate that kind of stuff. They've got the money, and if other companies want some of that money, they have to agree to a lot of stuff with Activision.

Sega has an incredibly low level of organization and very poor communication across their offices. It also would not surprise me if the main office was in charge of mandating the terms of this contract. Sadly, it is not even marginally surprising that there were not clauses and checks and balances built into the contract. If Sega Is not suing gearbox, you know that there is no place to stand, legally.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #231 on: February 25, 2013, 07:39:18 PM »
One of the thing Bungie's contract with Activision has stated repeatedly and publicly is that they're only allowed to use 5% of their staff for projects which are not Destiny.

That sounds onerous. In return, Activision must have promised Bungie all of the Wranglers stocked in Washington state.

edit:
SEGA should have included these Bungie bonuses:
$7,500,000 ON-TIME BONUS
$2,500,000 METACRITIC BONUS
$25,000,000 SALES KING BONUS
$25,000,000 SALES MASTER BONUS

« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 07:42:33 PM by Flannel Boy »

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #232 on: February 25, 2013, 07:55:54 PM »
I love how Bungie left MS so they wouldn't have to keep grinding out one franchise forever, and then immediately took that deal.

Flannel Boy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #233 on: February 25, 2013, 08:22:14 PM »
I assume these aren't in Gearbox's deal with SEGA:

Licensor shall be responsible for and agrees to diligently perform the following, subject to review by Activision . . .
(a) the complete development and production of the Products. . . .
(b) the payment of any and all development costs. . . . such development shall include:
(i) develop the Products to AAA status/quality (or equivalent);*
(ii) creating or implementing all computer code for the Products;
(iii) creating all visual and audio assets for the Products, including, as applicable, all game design aspects, art direction and creation, character development, script writing, screen graphics, character development, animation, in-game cut scenes, movies and cinematics, sound design, sound recording, sound effects, music composition, music production, music recording, voice talent, motion capture, video production, sound recording and effects, and ambient music creation, production and recording

8.3 Except with respect to its obligations related to Halo: Reach . . .  one hundred percent (100%) of Licensor’s studio/development personnel shall be exclusively dedicated to working on the Products during the Development Term (the “Exclusive Period”); provided, however, subject to the further restrictions set forth in Sections 8.4 and 8.5

14.1.4 All Development Advances paid by Activision to Licensor hereunder shall be utilized by Licensor solely to fund the costs of creation and development of the Products and otherwise cover day-to-day overhead and operational expenses that are reasonably necessary and related to the _ creation and development of the Products (e.g., office lease, computers; employee salaries, etc.), but excluding any built-in profit margin.


*How do you determine AAA status/quality? Does Moody's or Standard & Poor's determine this rating? Obviously, this is an attempt to express an obligation incapable of being clearly defined--to make a great game, but I don't see how this obligation is enforceable, unlike specific conditions or milestones.

benjipwns

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #234 on: February 25, 2013, 10:28:15 PM »
From Stoney's link: http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines
Quote
And then there was interference-with three companies involved in decision-making on Pecan, bureaucracy was inevitable. According to one source, Sega's producers wanted Colonial Marines to feel like Call of Duty—in other words, more shooting marines, less shooting aliens. Upper staff at both Gearbox and TimeGate disagreed with this mentality, the source said, and there was a tug-of-war between developer and publisher on how the game should be designed.
:fbm

Quote
Because of this sudden success, Gearbox decided to immediately start working on Borderlands 2—internally codenamed Willow 2—so they decided to outsource the bulk of development on Colonial Marines—codenamed Pecan—to a company called TimeGate, best known for the first-person shooter Section 8. At the time, TimeGate was finishing up development on the sequel, Section 8: Prejudice.

Around November or December of 2010, TimeGate had a company meeting to talk about their next project. Things went well.

"There was really good synergy between both teams about what needed to happen," one source told me. "It was a very love-love situation."

"Everyone at [TimeGate] was pretty stoked," said another source.

So Gearbox sent over the game materials, and TimeGate's team started to work on project Pecan—although at least a few staffers were shocked by how little progress Gearbox had made on the game.

"There was obviously not four years of work done on the game," one source said.


According to three people familiar with the project, Gearbox didn't put a lot of work into Colonial Marines between 2007 and 2010. Instead, those people told me, Gearbox chose to focus on Duke Nukem Forever, Borderlands, and Borderlands 2. Colonial Marines was not a priority.

One source told me that when TimeGate got the project, Colonial Marines was "basically a hodgepodge" of assets, including the shader—or lighting processor—from Borderlands. "A lot of assets just didn't seem like they fit there," the source said.
Quote
Another issue: incompatible management styles. Gearbox and TimeGate are two very different developers that approached the game in two very different ways.

"You could not pick two companies whose general workflow is more diametrically opposed," said one source. "Gearbox is used to 'work, work, work, iterate, iterate.' TimeGate is the exact opposite—they're always about shipping the product."
Quote
The truth might not be as malicious as some have speculated. According to a few sources I spoke with, the demo for Colonial Marines was built by TimeGate—with animation assistance by Gearbox—and ran in real time. As is standard for E3 demos, it ran on a high-end computer with specs that would be unfeasible for a normal console game.

"We were told many times through demo production, 'Don't worry about performance, just make it awesome,'" said one source. "There was a reason [the demos] were never playable."

(Press attending E3 2012 could join hands-on multiplayer sessions, but the single-player demo was not playable there.)

The demo looked better than the game does because the demo didn't have to be optimized for old hardware. Though these games are created using powerful PCs, any console game has a "performance budget"—the ceiling above which an Xbox 360 or a PS3 cannot go. The Colonial Marines demo was way over performance budget, and the development team had to cut back significantly for the final product.

"We were constantly cutting back more and more in terms of texture, shader and particle fidelity, in order to fit into the jacked memory restraints," said another source.
Quote
once Gearbox had finished most of Borderlands 2, they took the project back from TimeGate. And Gearbox changed everything—partially because what TimeGate had produced was not very good, two sources told me, and partially because it couldn't run on the PlayStation 3.

"[Gearbox made] big changes to lighting, texture and shader complexity," said one source who had not played the final game, but was familiar with some of the later builds. "Design elements were altered or redone entirely. It looks like a lot of [TimeGate's] assets remained intact, with the exception of lower-res textures and faster-performing shaders."

A number of TimeGate staff were removed from the project and, in some cases, let go from their jobs. And while Gearbox's staff knew that they didn't have enough time to fix this disaster of a project, according to one source, they felt like they couldn't ask for another extension from Sega. Not after seven years.

"The game feels like it was made in nine months, and that's because it was," said a source.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 10:30:07 PM by benjipwns »

Sho Nuff

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #235 on: February 25, 2013, 11:12:12 PM »
Getting money from one publisher and channeling that chedda into another publisher's project is par for the course in this industry

benjipwns

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #236 on: February 25, 2013, 11:21:37 PM »
For as "in the know" as GAFfers claim to be they sure are acting like this is the first time anyone has ever pulled a pitchford. Some of them were boasting that this would shame him and Gearbox out of the industry forever. And that Sega couldn't do anything about it because they just never expected someone to actually go through with a pitchford! Worst of all, this embezzlement is why we aren't getting a multiplatform Bayonetta 2, Gearbox pitchforded the cash right out of the Bayonetta jar in the breakroom!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 11:23:15 PM by benjipwns »

Stoney Mason

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #237 on: February 25, 2013, 11:23:28 PM »
For as "in the know" as GAFfers claim to be they sure are acting like this is the first time anyone has ever pulled a pitchford. Some of them were boasting that this would shame him and Gearbox out of the industry forever.

Yeah the reaction to this whole thing has been a little surprising to me. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

Don Flamenco

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #238 on: February 25, 2013, 11:27:51 PM »
cash is fungible but this is not a $30 million game :lol


man, i kinda wish this would go to court.  interesting stuff.
How much did Too Human cost to make?
The defense rests.


wouldn't that be the Canadian government v. SK?    Don't they live off of some grant/subsidy? 

also a lawsuit I'd like to see, though i don't know shit about your legal system.
They never did get the grants.

We both have common law systems (except for Quebec), derived from hundreds of years of English case law. Canada's civil statutes (e.g., securities acts, corp acts, privacy acts, etc.) are often modeled after similar acts in other common law jurisdictions, like America.

It's been four or five years since I took contracts or torts, so I'm a little rusty. The amount of money SEGA gave Gearbox seems irrelevant in the absence of a condition in their contract that Gearbox was to use x dollars in development (for business efficacy and based on industry standards, a term can be implied that a certain level of funding is required, but I'd hate to hear the expert evidence on that issue). The contract probably contained milestones and such, but if the milestones were met, what's SEGA's case? That the game sucked? Outside of technical requirements, how much assurance can a developer give a publisher that its product will be good? 



The more I think about it, the less there seems to be a case, regardless of the contract.  Sega let it ship, which, I think, holds a lot of weight when it comes to the UCC.  That basically chills any claims about poor performance...they ship it, they're happy. If they tried now, judge would say "why didn't you do this after they asked for X extension after Y years....if you dicks would've just played the sewer level and saw how terrible the xenomorphs were animated, this all could've been avoided."   

I'd assume they wouldn't use things like "AAA" but apparently Activision thinks that's okay.  I think the technical specs can very specific though, to at least avoid having an embarrassing looking p.o.s. 

Do they not require some kind of log/breakdown for how the money is spent?   Publishers probably should when it comes to $30 million....but as we know, the whole world should be doing lots of things, but they just don't-- even when millions upon millions are at stake.   :lol 


I love how Bungie left MS so they wouldn't have to keep grinding out one franchise forever, and then immediately took that deal.


and the new universe looks almost exactly like the old one, right down to the logos and fonts and shit. 

Flannel Boy

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Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines [All Singing, All Dancing]
« Reply #239 on: February 26, 2013, 12:07:16 AM »
I'd assume they wouldn't use things like "AAA" but apparently Activision thinks that's okay.  I think the technical specs can very specific though, to at least avoid having an embarrassing looking p.o.s. 

Do they not require some kind of log/breakdown for how the money is spent?   Publishers probably should when it comes to $30 million....but as we know, the whole world should be doing lots of things, but they just don't-- even when millions upon millions are at stake.   :lol 
It seems that, by definition, Destiny will be an AAA title because that is what a big-budgeted, heavily marketed shiny game is, right?

There's no breakdown of how the money is to be spent, other than that "Advances . . .  shall be utilized . . . solely to fund the costs of creation and development. . . ." The parties agreed to quarterly project reviews, which seem to be guided by a milestone schedule, and monthly production reports.