Author Topic: Blacker than a moonless night, hotter and more bitter than hell itself...that is  (Read 14068 times)

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Steve Contra

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Neither of those coffees are brands.  They're regions where the coffee is grown, and that is what makes people want them.  I agree that they're both swindles to a certain extent.

They're brands in how they are marketed.  You just said you can get away with adding just a touch of each and call it that.  You know why?  Because they realized they could market the shit out them simply by slapping the name on them.  I've never had either one that comes close to the best stuff coming out of Guatemala, Costa Rica, Somalia, Colombia etc.  (and I try more coffee than anyone on the 'bore by a good country mile).
vin

Don Flamenco

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I don't think you can call it a pure bag of a particular bean when it isn't without adding "blend"

The Hawaiian gov't has an official grading system for Kona:
http://www.konamountaincoffee.com/kona-coffee-information/coffee-grading.html

it's just that even with that officialness, it's still pretty whatever. 

chronovore

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Neither of those coffees are brands.  They're regions where the coffee is grown, and that is what makes people want them.  I agree that they're both swindles to a certain extent.

In all honesty, Blue Mountain coffee is extremely rare to find by itself.  Most of the time, coffee that is marketed as being "Blue Mountain" is mostly a blend of coffees from all over Jamaica with a little bit -or none at all- of Blue Mountain thrown in.  I've been told that Kona is the same way.

You want to talk about brands that people are familiar with?  Folgers, Maxwell House, Dunkan Donuts, and Starbucks.  (Rated in order of fanciness!  :derp)

The meaning of "brand" is both what you've defined it to be, and in a broader sense it is also as Steve Contra had stated. Brand itself is fairly fluid (no pun intended). Ze Frank had a brilliant bit on this, but his old site isn't working right now. Here's a transcript, which lacks the timing and punch of the original video:
http://www.zefrank.com/thewiki/the_show:_08-29-06

The entire summary of which can be stated, "A brand is an emotional aftertaste that's conjured up by, but not necessarily dependent on, a series of experiences."

Kona, itself, as a brand associated with coffee has tremendous value. This is why Hawai'i protects that brand with policies, or attempts to, as Lion Coffee's Kona Blend is pretty much the crappiest coffee around.

Champaign-as-a-brand has similar value, to the point where France briefly succeeded in getting other white sparkling wines to discontinue referring to themselves as "champaign." I'd always wondered what would happen if a sparkling white wine had been grown in Champaign, Illinois during that period. I mean, other than a rather poor wine being created.

Groogrux

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I see the point that both you and Steve are making.  It's like bourbon isn't "bourbon" unless it's made in Kentucky.

Anywho, I've tried a Kona blend but never one from Blue Mountain.  TBH, I don't like coffees that come out of the Americas that much.  My heart, as far as coffee is concerned, is in Africa.  I generally prefer stuff that comes out of Ethiopia.
WTF

Don Flamenco

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i'd like to try that cat shit coffee at least once before i die

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak


...actually i take that back.  sounds like it would be a similar experience as the Kona, except i'd be paying $100 to cat shit

chronovore

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Wow, I'd never even heard of that before. Sounds interesting!

Don Flamenco

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I think it's the grind, beans, heat, and amount of pressure that makes espresso what it is?   I got schooled on it a few pages back when I called aeropress coffee "espresso."


I want that cold brew thing for the summer! 

edit: only $32 at amazon, sweet.  and the concentrate really stays good for weeks?!   might just switch over altogether. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 09:02:06 AM by Don Flamenco »

chronovore

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http://www.funraniumlabs.com/the-black-blood-of-the-earth

This guy is a FOAF, so I'm supposed to meet him the next time I'm in the USA and our mutual friend is not-in-China.

I am excite.

As for espresso, and why AeroPress is technically not-espresso, I'd say it's down to these:
  • The amount: A single shot of espresso is like a "shot" of liquor, it is a more-or-less decided amount. The AeroPress makes about a cup or cup-and-a-half of joe; I don't think the machine works optimally if you'd just make a shot's amount.
  • Blooming the grounds: The best AeroPress technique uses a 10 second pre-moistening of the grounds, while espresso is a burst process, for lack of knowing the correct term in my ignorance.
  • Steeping: grounds are steeped in AeroPress, whereas the espresso is out of contact with water until the "pull" begins.

Honestly though, I am no expert. I would call the AP's coffee "espresso-like" if only to keep some safe distance between me and the cajoling of espresso purists, who are --to a man-- completely insane.

Don Flamenco

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feel of espresso, in ninja theory terms

Groogrux

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As for espresso, and why AeroPress is technically not-espresso, I'd say it's down to these:
  • The amount: A single shot of espresso is like a "shot" of liquor, it is a more-or-less decided amount. The AeroPress makes about a cup or cup-and-a-half of joe; I don't think the machine works optimally if you'd just make a shot's amount.
  • Blooming the grounds: The best AeroPress technique uses a 10 second pre-moistening of the grounds, while espresso is a burst process, for lack of knowing the correct term in my ignorance.
  • Steeping: grounds are steeped in AeroPress, whereas the espresso is out of contact with water until the "pull" begins.

Honestly though, I am no expert. I would call the AP's coffee "espresso-like" if only to keep some safe distance between me and the cajoling of espresso purists, who are --to a man-- completely insane.

That's actually a really good description of why the two are not the same.
WTF

Groogrux

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I guess you could make just a shot with it.  It's not meant for it, but it's possible.  The other thing that would have to be taken into account is the bean being used in the AP.  If it's not roasted to espresso standards, it's not espresso.
WTF

chronovore

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The steeping/blooming makes sense but why does an Aeropress not optimally make a shot? That's almost exclusively what I make--a single shot.
Oh, for that I was just thinking about the manufacturer's instructions and the other fan-made "optimal" cup of AeroPress videos I'd seen. If you're making single shots and it is tasty, then my argument is not valid. HOWEVER, I am going to add one more point to my post:
  • Density of grounds: Espresso uses a puck of compressed grounds, through which water or steam is rapidly processed. AeroPress starts with loose grounds, which result in a puck by the end of the press, but are not compressed from beginning to end of the procedure.

chronovore

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Am currently WIRED AS FUCK on Phil'z Coffee's Ambrosia. Good god, it's after 5PM, what was I thinking. I'll be awake until Monday.

I'm drinking shitty work coffee today. At least it's not instant stuff.
野球

Steve Contra

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So like I mentioned earlier, my buddy purchased a $12,000 roaster. He and three other guys started a coffee roastery here in Oklahoma and have started selling and sourcing to the locally coffee-concious. But, they are also selling online. You can purchase a few of their single source coffees online with free 1-3 day shipping:

http://redearthcoffeeco.com

These are definitely some of the best coffees I've ever tasted and freshly roasted single source really makes a difference. I highly recommend the Ethiopia if you like smooth, nutty, darker roasted (but not ashy or burnt) with coffees. If you haven't had freshly roasted coffee, give this a shot. If your palette is a little more experienced, a couple of the others have more complex, fruity, citrusy flavor profiles.
You should PM me their info.  I'm good friends with one the best coffee importers around.
vin

chronovore

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I'm drinking shitty work coffee today. At least it's not instant stuff.

I can't believe how many people drink instant coffee here. It is just amazing, and amazingly bad. The worst bit is when I see famed coffee connoisseurs used on advertisements promoting the coffee which I know taste like an ashtray.

chronovore

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I've actually no idea who the guys are, they're just shown with their name and some kind of title, espousing their expertise. They're no-one I've actually heard of previously.

TakingBackSunday

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Stumbled upon this article looking for a solid french press pot:

http://gizmodo.com/5868602/why-you-shouldnt-buy-anyone-a-french-press

looooooool
püp

That article is funny. Coarse grounds, dude.
野球

chronovore

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Yeah, they're full of it. Coarse grounds, press, give the coffee a moment to settle before pouring: no problem.

Just don't pour the very last bit out, to avoid the lees, just as you would with a bottle of wine.

chronovore

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Sure, but you mean seeing it at the bottom of the cup, right? Letting it settle in the cup, or letting it settle in the press, there's not any difference.

You're not actually drinking it, are you?

Howard Alan Treesong

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I shoulda read this thread before. Steve probably has me beat but I'm no slouch in the snooty coffee department. I mean I moved to Seattle and immediately started bitching about the quality of the coffee here. It took me 6 months to find some reasonable places.

Excellent: Kuma Coffee (beans), Milstead & Co (shop)
Not Bad: Seattle Coffee Works
Swill locals go gaga for some reason: Victrola, Caffe Vita, Stumptown, Cafe Ladro

I'm also months late to the pile-on but Kona is ABSOLUTE CRAP and Blue Mountain coffee is about as good as the eCards
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 06:57:37 PM by Howard Alan Treesong »
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Howard Alan Treesong

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When we went to Victrola my wife turned to me and asked, "how are we supposed to choose our coffee if there aren't any tasting notes?"

Smart woman. If your coffee is being described to you as "coffee" then it's probably not very good or interesting coffee.
乱学者

Herkimer and Zoka are my favorite locals.
野球

Groogrux

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Swill locals go gaga for some reason: Victrola, Caffe Vita, Stumptown, Cafe Ladro


I've never had their coffee, but I do know that Stumptown at least has an awesome website for coffee brewing education.  I've learned a lot about the various methods of making it from their site.

http://stumptowncoffee.com/brew-guides/
WTF

I bought some Stumptown in a cafe in New Orleans not even realizing I was buying coffee from Seattle.

Stumptown is actually from Portland, but has a roaster and shops in Seattle. I like it just fine.

Strangely enough, I don't like Kuma at all.
野球

chronovore

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How does this work? Is there a name for this method?