Why is it that game makers cant replicate the awesomeness of SNES RPGS

[MCD]

Sorry breh. Just find it weird how gamers are all like GAMES TODAY ARE BABBY EASY AND ABOUT EXPERIENCES and shit then they gush about CT - a game I can beat without dying once and my most prized memories of it are stories contained. Then they're like GAMEPLAY and I'm all "what game play?"

Just weird shit.

CT and CC were all about Time Travel. No one can hate on that.

Gameplay was unique and it still holds up quite well today.

[Himu]

CC is not about time travel. If it were I'd like it more.

But yes, CT is timeless.

[Damian79]

Scarlet = Red Scarlet?

[Momo]

[magus]

man you guys are talking about CT?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

should have saved it for the inevitable "WHAT FF IS THE BEST" discussion for when FF13-3 get out

[close]

[benjipwns]

I like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI.

And Super Mario RPG.

And Freedom Force. Someone should make a new Freedom Force. I'm not sure what this has to do with SNES RPGs but I am sure that there should be a new Freedom Force.

[Damian79]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

should have saved it for the inevitable "WHAT FF IS THE BEST" discussion for when FF13-3 get out

[close]

Thats a false dichotomy there is no good FF13.

[recursivelyenumerable]

What was so great about snes jrpgs? There were many classics for sure. But jrpgs have kinda gone past snes a long ass time ago in a game sense. Tell me: what was great about the game play in FFVI?

FF6 was fun because it was a big toybox of wacky characters, abilities, etc. you could use along with wacky situations and dungeons you found yourself in and enemies you found yourself fighting. Admittedly it was also the FF where the balance started going to shit

[recursivelyenumerable]

ANSWER

Everyone responsible for those games were put into management positions

think this deserves a quote

[recursivelyenumerable]

I played CT while avoiding a lot of enemies, it made some of the boss fights fun and challenging but the regular enemies (the ones that can't be avoided, which is a lot of them), I still got through by mindlessly spamming attack or basic abilities. Which I think is kind of a big flaw (that many or most JRPGs have) considering how much time you spend in those battles.

Another thing that disappointed me about CT is that while early dungeons like the Cathedral or Guardia Castle dungeon (after the trial) were creative in terms of game design, and fun to explore, it seemed over the course of the game they gradually gave up on that and later dungeons became just a long linear sequence of battles that often weren't even avoidable.

[Himu]

What was so great about snes jrpgs? There were many classics for sure. But jrpgs have kinda gone past snes a long ass time ago in a game sense. Tell me: what was great about the game play in FFVI?

FF6 was fun because it was a big toybox of wacky characters, abilities, etc. you could use along with wacky situations and dungeons you found yourself in and enemies you found yourself fighting. Admittedly it was also the FF where the balance started going to shit

I'm not debating FFVI being fun. I'm debating snes rpgs "awesomeness". Not once in this thread aside from Toxic Adam's post has anyone offered any opinion in regards to backing up why they feel snes rpgs have not been topped when in reality, if we are talking about in a game sense, they were topped a long ass time ago. Surely, from a crowd of people that's emphasis ganeplay over anything else (see Triumph and his Shenmue tirades) they would see this. But the cognitive dissonance sticks. Chrono Trigger, a game where I can mash attack the whole game is a treasure and hasn't been topped apparently, but let's not mention Valkyrie Profile 2!

Seems like a nice case of nostalgia mixed with cognitive dissonance. They can't even admit that the main reason games like FFVI and CT were so good were their stories and settings and scale. You will see the same arguments used against VII or hell, IX - too easy, too attack mashy, brain dead combat when their treasured games have the same shit. Bring that up, and they sweep it under the rug.

I wouldn't have a problem if they were consistent about it which is funny coming from moi, but hey there it is.

[Damian79]

I played CT while avoiding a lot of enemies, it made some of the boss fights fun and challenging but the regular enemies (the ones that can't be avoided, which is a lot of them), I still got through by mindlessly spamming attack or basic abilities. Which I think is kind of a big flaw (that many or most JRPGs have) considering how much time you spend in those battles.

Another thing that disappointed me about CT is that while early dungeons like the Cathedral or Guardia Castle dungeon (after the trial) were creative in terms of game design, and fun to explore, it seemed over the course of the game they gradually gave up on that and later dungeons became just a long linear sequence of battles that often weren't even avoidable.

Yeah the dungeons dropped in quality later on in the game.

[Damian79]

What was so great about snes jrpgs? There were many classics for sure. But jrpgs have kinda gone past snes a long ass time ago in a game sense. Tell me: what was great about the game play in FFVI?

FF6 was fun because it was a big toybox of wacky characters, abilities, etc. you could use along with wacky situations and dungeons you found yourself in and enemies you found yourself fighting. Admittedly it was also the FF where the balance started going to shit

I'm not debating FFVI being fun. I'm debating snes rpgs "awesomeness". Not once in this thread aside from Toxic Adam's post has anyone offered any opinion in regards to backing up why they feel snes rpgs have not been topped when in reality, if we are talking about in a game sense, they were topped a long ass time ago. Surely, from a crowd of people that's emphasis ganeplay over anything else (see Triumph and his Shenmue tirades) they would see this. But the cognitive dissonance sticks. Chrono Trigger, a game where I can mash attack the whole game is a treasure and hasn't been topped apparently, but let's not mention Valkyrie Profile 2!

Seems like a nice case of nostalgia mixed with cognitive dissonance. They can't even admit that the main reason games like FFVI and CT were so good were their stories and settings and scale. You will see the same arguments used against VII or hell, IX - too easy, too attack mashy, brain dead combat when their treasured games have the same shit. Bring that up, and they sweep it under the rug.

I wouldn't have a problem if they were consistent about it which is funny coming from moi, but hey there it is.

I liked VP1 but not 2 it was kinda grindy.  Any rpg that forces you to grind levels is not a good rpg imo of course.

[Himu]

VP2 is grindy? News to me.

[hampster]

Did the genesis have any good RPGs?

I didn't play jrpgs until the ps1 where they became one of my favorite genres. I went back later and tried some snes final fantasies and CT but I could tell I missed something by not playing them at release

[magus]

Did the genesis have any good RPGs?

I didn't play jrpgs until the ps1 where they became one of my favorite genres. I went back later and tried some snes final fantasies and CT but I could tell I missed something by not playing them at release

Phantasy Star 4 is decent

[Himu]

Did the genesis have any good RPGs?

I didn't play jrpgs until the ps1 where they became one of my favorite genres. I went back later and tried some snes final fantasies and CT but I could tell I missed something by not playing them at release

Phantasy Star IV is great and Crusader of Centy is a great Zelda like. If you're down for side scrolli g Zelda II RPG goodness play Wonder Boy in Monster World for the best that genre has to offer.

[demi]

Did the genesis have any good RPGs?

I didn't play jrpgs until the ps1 where they became one of my favorite genres. I went back later and tried some snes final fantasies and CT but I could tell I missed something by not playing them at release

Not particularly, it got more action RPGs (Zelda-likes) and strategy RPGs.

Off the top of my head:

Phantasy Star 2, 3, 4 (I think only 4 is playable)
Light Crusader
Landstalker
Beyond Oasis
Shining Force 1, 2
Shining in the Darkness
Crusader of Centy

[Momo]

Did the genesis have any good RPGs?

http://www.listal.com/list/rpg-world-genesis-mega


http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega-genesis-megadrive-rpgs

[hampster]

I think I'll give Phantasy Star IV a shot. I don't know why I never bought any rpgs when I had a genesis. Sega Visions must not have been pimping them as hard as Nintendo Power was

[tiesto]

Yeah, I think for English gamers the 16 bit era is filtered heavily by the fact that we generally only got the very best JRPGs.  Having poked around a lot at the many unlocalized games of that period, I can safely say the genre on the whole was 85% shit even in the "glory days".

There were some pretty great unlocalized games during that era too. Live A Live, Seiken 3, Dark Half, Tales of Phantasia, Tactics Ogre, DQ5 and 6, FF5, the Romancing SaGa series, Emerald Dragon. But yeah there was a lot of, not crappy games but pretty bland ones.

SNES and PS1 are definitely the 2 best eras of RPGs for me, but for different reasons. SNES was the peak of the 'traditional' RPG, while PS1 RPGs ramped up the experimentation in both gameplay and game progression. PS2, I think that's when the genre got a bit too filled with bloat and excess.

[Himu]

I feel I should say I'm not explaining myself because I don't see much point.  I see no end of this conversation where I don't end up pissed off.

Therefore, I'm opting to spare us both the misery.

I don't see why you would get pissed off seeing as how I have not attacked CT or FF6 in terms of quality. For me there is no disputing that considering I feel the snes FFs were the most consistent period for FF in terms of quality. All three are classics and among the best the series has to offer. As for CT, what else needs to be said about CT?

I'm just fighting this idea about snes rpgs being awesomeness when the same people bitch about game play and REAL GAMES and shit. So the next time Triumph makes his stupid REAL GAMES tirade I am going to remind him of his love for a game that can be won mashing attack.

[Powerslave]

Real and good RPGs have died after FF9.

[Himu]

Shut the fuck up.

[mjemirzian]

Why is it that forum posters can't discuss RPGs without becoming extremely ass damaged?

[Himu]

Ass damaged

You just said the magic words, MJ. :word

[Momo]

I think I'll give Phantasy Star IV a shot. I don't know why I never bought any rpgs when I had a genesis. Sega Visions must not have been pimping them as hard as Nintendo Power was

Assuming you are only interested in the traditional JRPG(?) if so play Lunar as well and Phantasy Star II

[Don Flamenco]

The question is if we'd recognize it if they did...every once in a while I get sucked into something that promises SNES RPG and ends up disappointing like Breath of Death, Penny-Arcade 3, etc. 

[tiesto]

Some low production values and backtracking aside, Radiant Historia and Trails in the Sky were the 2 most recent games that came closest to feeling like a late 16bit/early 32bit RPG.

Why is it that forum posters can't discuss RPGs without becoming extremely ass damaged?

Their niche status, the persecution complex against RPGs lately (or Japanese games in general), and the great time investment the games require.

[Don Flamenco]

Is Barkey's Shut Up And Jam Gaiden on the mark or that more like a Zeboyd Games (Breath of Death) effort?

[Great Rumbler]

So far nothing indicates you really mean snes rpgs and not just Chrono Trigger. CT is in the top 5 jrpgs period. Games like that don't come often.

I only meant Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger.   I just want clones of those.

We've got plenty of Secret of Mana/Chrono Trigger clones, the problem is that they're [mostly] all terrible.

[Van Cruncheon]

because snes rpgs suck, real talk. chrono trigger was shallow and dull back in the day, you were just too dbz-tarded to notice

[Himu]

Ben it depends. The games I mention in this thread pushed jrpgs to the next level. Shame not one single jrpg this gen built up on what they did. Though I have yet to play RoF. I just really want more VP2 but I realize I'm not gonna get it because people just want more shallow traditional RPG crap.

[Sho Nuff]

Can someone help me figure something out? I abhor all JRPGs but I play the ever-loving shit out of Persona. Where does this put me in regards to my weeabosity

[archnemesis]

I guess that would make you a fan of the dating sim genre.

[Himu]

MORE MODERN SETTINGS PLEASE.

[magus]

Can someone help me figure something out? I abhor all JRPGs but I play the ever-loving shit out of Persona. Where does this put me in regards to my weeabosity

[archnemesis]

There are Japanese role-playing games with a modern or sci-fi setting, like Infinite Space, Resonance of Fate, and The World Ends with You, but I get the impression that most people complaining about the state of the genre stopped playing games a decade ago.

[demi]

Can someone help me figure something out? I abhor all JRPGs but I play the ever-loving shit out of Persona. Where does this put me in regards to my weeabosity

Relationship issues

[Himu]

While those are good examples, I think they're big exceptions. Outside of games like Persona and TWEWY most jrpgs stick to sci-fi and fantasy or hybrid settings. It's not like wrpgs are any better about it though, they're actually far worse.

[Steve Contra]

Probably because JRPGs now appeal to pedophiles instead of normal folk.

[tiesto]

MORE MODERN SETTINGS PLEASE.

were a lot better with that nowadays. alpha protocol, vampire the masquerade is one too right? a lot of the modern games tend to be 'slashies' to me, action RPGs and FPS like stalker and all that with a sprinklin' of role playing. im talking about different cultural settings though. i dare an rpg dev to base a game on ANY setting having to do with dark people. they might do azns with Jade Empire but the day i see an RPG, or any game based on aztec or african or indian or pacific islander or whatever, ill eat my fist.

i personally blame it on CACs like MAF who say they 'cant identify with a black GTA protagonist'

Mayan - Tombs and Treasure (though it's a J-Adv and not an RPG, even if it has the occasional turn-based battle)
Indian - Digital Devil Saga setting seems loosely based on Indian settings
Shadow Hearts: From The New World also has a few Pacific Island/Native American type settings (as well as a 1930's USA setting)
and obviously there's a few RPGs with Arabian settings such as the Oasis series

I'd like to see more games with these settings too though.

As an adult JRPG's are coma inducing. Unless it is a Shin Megami game that doesn't involve stupid teenagers going to school I can't fuck with them.

agreed. the graphics art and asset wise are crap, the battle systems seem old, outdated, and boring as hell, and the stories havent improved...shit just seems archaic. i could of course be talking out of my ass but i dont check for em anymore. wrpgs havent.really evolved or xhanged much either but at least they have serviceable visuals...

Yeah, you seem to be talking out of your ass, sorry Japanese RPGs at least seem pretty varied in their settings and game engines. Valkyrie Profile is nothing like Valkyria Chronicles is nothing like Last Remnant is nothing like Resonance of Fate is nothing like the Ys series is nothing like the Atelier series, hell even FF12 and 13 are such polar opposites. Not always does this gameplay work but the traditional DQ-esque turn based RPGs are in pretty limited number nowadays.

[TakingBackSunday]

I think suikoden II is better than CT.

Best jrpgs IMO:

Chronic trigger
Suikoden II
Dragon Quarter
Valkyrie Profile 2
Persona 3/4
Final Fantasy XII
Dragon Quest V



I'd take all over these over CT but CT is no slouch.

bolded and bumped this post because 

take a seat in the corner himu.  In no universe, this one or any parallel one where you're a woman, is final fantasy XII better than any of those games much less chrono trigger

[Himu]

DDS' is based off of hindu and buddhism architecture, but a lot of it is a mix of modern and sci-fi.

[tiesto]

I loved all the other games Himu mentioned (some even more than CT), but didn't like FFXII :shrug

[Himu]

I think suikoden II is better than CT.

Best jrpgs IMO:

Chronic trigger
Suikoden II
Dragon Quarter
Valkyrie Profile 2
Persona 3/4
Final Fantasy XII
Dragon Quest V



I'd take all over these over CT but CT is no slouch.

bolded and bumped this post because 

take a seat in the corner himu.  In no universe, this one or any parallel one where you're a woman, is final fantasy XII better than any of those games much less chrono trigger

Suikoden II has a better story and characters than CT, and is one of my personal favorite jrpgs of all time.

Valkyrie Profile 2 is probably objectively, in terms of mechanics, the best jrpg I've played and makes Chrono Trigger look like a fucking text adventure novel.

Dragon Quarter is a hard and punishing as nails dungeon crawler which rewards risk and has more tension in its pinky finger than CT.

Final Fantasy XII has amazing sense of scale and exploration, amazing difficulty curve scale, fantastic boss fights, and rewards creativity by way of the gambit system.

I am positive you have not played Suiko II, VP2, and DQ.

Suck my cheeseburger nut.

[TakingBackSunday]

suck my cheeseburger nut 

                       
 

[Himu]

good call but i meant from WRPGs. JRPG devs have been going to other cultures for sges. look at the environs in say, golden sun 2 for example. ill play tombs tho

If you want Japanese rpg commenting on Japanese culture play SMT games.

[Himu]

In Skyrim I play as a black person. :troll

[TakingBackSunday]

I play as a furry 

[Himu]

I play as a Nord and turn the skin tone up. Finally, I can play as my people.

[TakingBackSunday]

himu why don't you just play as a redguard?

[Himu]

Redguards look ugly, nords have better benefits and shit.

Reguards



vs

Dark skin nord



Turn the skin tone up and you've got a good looking black person:



Nords are the superior choice.

[Himu]

True. But I'm talking about QUEST bonuses and shit. I played as an elf first playthrough and people TALKED SHIT TO ME and I don't like dat.

[TakingBackSunday]

just kill all haters

[Huff]

have you guys tried quest 64?

now that was an rpg

spoiler (click to show/hide)

this thread sucks go kill yourselves

[close]

[Don Flamenco]

Probably because JRPGs now appeal to pedophiles instead of normal folk.

Hey now, i've Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory Special Edition with the lunchbox preordered

spoiler (click to show/hide)

to sell to a weeaboo for like $150

[close]

[Himu]

I don't think that is fair. I am willing to concede I am wrong than most people but fine be like that.

[mjemirzian]

Why is it that forum posters can't discuss RPGs without becoming extremely ass damaged?

Honestly, there are very few arguments I can have with Himu-chan where I don't end up pissed off in the end.  Not at him, but at myself for wasting time/energy.

I understand that, sometimes it's not worth the effort. Not saying anything in particular about anyone on this board, but just in general. This is one of the better gaming related boards I've checked out and I seem to get along with most people here.

I played a lot of SNES RPGs back in the day (also played action games and stuff too). Had the original carts for all those SNES games that go for hundreds now. For some reason I just consider them a happy part of growing up and don't feel the need to argue over them or cling to them. I remember FF6 feeling pretty epic, Chrono Trigger was really cool as a kid too. Hmm I also remember liking Secret of Mana a lot, the soundtrack was great. That's all I can remember right now. My taste in games are just different now.

[tiesto]

mj, how would you still rate 16-bit tactics games? Like, Shining Force, FEDA, the early Fire Emblems, Warrior of Rome, and Langrisser 1-2?