Shadowrun Returns - This time it's Hong Kong

[Great Rumbler]

using "checkpoints" instead of "autosaves" is either a poor choice of words or an unfortunate choice of for the game.  not that autosaves aren't problematic, too.

Here's what they say about saves:

The game auto-saves at each checkpoint, which we try to space to at most 15 minutes apart. Your checkpoints will be listed on the main menu by character, you can reload any auto-save on the list. Multiple characters will not mess with each other's save games.

[brob]

save & quit + permadeath. This checkpoint or manual save nonsense is for softbodies and wimps.

[Joe Molotov]

 :weeaboo

[Great Rumbler]

And in the case of Kickstarter, "cancelling your preorder" could actually derail development of the game, even keep it from being released entirely.

[Human Snorenado]

And in the case of Kickstarter, "cancelling your preorder" could actually derail development of the game, even keep it from being released entirely.

Let's all kickstart Shenmue 3, then demand our preorders be cancelled.

[Great Rumbler]

Hey Evilore, maybe if you mewl a little louder, HBS will somehow find a little extra money in the budget or time in the schedule to make the game exactly the way YOU think it should be. Ye Gods, whoever it was on this forum that said it last year [Oscar?] was right, Kickstarter is going to bring out frothing gamer entitlement like nothing before. You get 9/10 things you want, but flip out because you don't get the tenth. smh

[Great Rumbler]

Yeah, and now imagine if the game comes out and it's actually BAD. You know, I really thought that maybe this wouldn't happen, that including people in the process and having them be invested in the project [not just in terms of money] would help bring out the best in people. Instead, it's just given people an even greater sense that the game should be exactly the way they think it should be, and anything less is a personal insult from the developer. So yeah, thanks a lot, gamers, thanks for taking something great and ruining it because you can't see beyond the end of your own nose.

[Cormacaroni]

In a KS situation, gamers are investors, sure, but any investor realizes that they have effectively no representation whatsoever unless they have enough shares to get a seat on the board. Evilore may have paid a bit over the odds but that doesn't make him Warren Buffett, able to pick up a phone and get shit done

[Stoney Mason]

I have increasingly more issues with Kickstarter. I think it can create bad habits for devs and consumers.

That being said anybody could forsee Evilore being Evilore and whining about shit and using GAF to rally his legions of kiss-asses.

[Great Rumbler]

That being said anybody could forsee Evilore being Evilore and whining about shit and using GAF to rally his legions of kiss-asses.

That bothers me the most about this, Evilore using his bully pulpit to the lead the gamer entitlement charge against a developer not prioritizing the features he cares about.

[Sho Nuff]

How much did Evilore donate

[pilonv1]

That being said anybody could forsee Evilore being Evilore and whining about shit and using GAF to rally his legions of kiss-asses.

That bothers me the most about this, Evilore using his bully pulpit to the lead the gamer entitlement charge against a developer not prioritizing the features he cares about.

Neogaf is shaping the gaming media agenda, didn't you hear?

[Cerveza mas fina]

People behaving like people, no news here, really.

I know I know, it's just that this sense of entitlement is coming from people that supposedly belong to the hardcore and informed crowd and should know better. Being ignorant is annoying.

As people said, these folks that threw in 20 bucks aren't shareholders, heck they won't ever seen any penny cause this is crowd funding not investing.

Yeah, and now imagine if the game comes out and it's actually BAD. You know, I really thought that maybe this wouldn't happen, that including people in the process and having them be invested in the project [not just in terms of money] would help bring out the best in people. Instead, it's just given people an even greater sense that the game should be exactly the way they think it should be, and anything less is a personal insult from the developer. So yeah, thanks a lot, gamers, thanks for taking something great and ruining it because you can't see beyond the end of your own nose.

  gamers

Then again these are the same people that think companies have agenda's beyond making moolah

[Human Snorenado]

The thing is though, they aren't investors.  Investors would potentially see some sort of fiscal gain if the product sold well.  These people are only going to get a game and some useless tchotchkes.  They're providing the service of an investor (capital during development) with none of the potential benefits.  I have kickstarted all of 3 projects because of this.

[Human Snorenado]

but but but they're gonna save Veronica Mars!

[Diunx]

Not only do backers get no money whatsoever for their "inversion" but they have no decision making power within the develop company like typical investors do, in KS you are donating money for a cause and the sooner gamers learn that the sooner this sort of drama will stop.

By giving refunds these guys are setting a really bad precedent.

[Rufus]

How about "collective patronage"?

[Great Rumbler]

How about "collective patronage"?

Kickstarter is basically a PBS pledge drive.

[cool breeze]

I dunno what exactly to call them.  They're not typical investors, to be sure, for the reasons you mentioned.  But they're not exactly donating, either, because they're getting something in return (and that something is clearly the main if not only reason they're contributing money).  Nor are they customers, though that's the mindset most of them are in.

I mean, semantics aside, the main issue here is that they are *not* customers.  The money they've contributed is not a purchase and could very easily be lost entirely without even the meager gains promised fulfilled.  That's the mindset people ought to be in.  However, as usual, it's going to take some very hands-on learning for a lot of people to get it, and once all the dust is settled, well, KS will go on, but I don't think it's going to seem like quite as much of a miracle drug as it has been treated for the last year.

Kickstarter's clear with its messaging.  Pledges and Rewards.

It's on the kickstarters playing with peoples' misunderstandings.  This Shadowrun project providing refunds is only going to create more confusion.

[Trent Dole]

I have donated to two KS things. Neither were games.

[Great Rumbler]

I haven't even thought about this before, but a small group of people who decided halfway through the production of a Kickstarterd game could totally screw over everybody else. They ask for refunds, they get refunds. Now, the developer doesn't have the money to finish the game, since they budgeted having 100% of the Kickstarter funds [minus fees and such] and maybe a little bit more from other operations. Suddenly, they lose a chunk of that budget. So, they gotta either release a broken game that they know everybody is going to hate or they just fold and everybody gets nothing [except the people who got their refunds already].

[Cerveza mas fina]

They don't have to give refunds though.

[Great Rumbler]

They don't have to give refunds though.

No, they don't, and the above is why they shouldn't. It's a bad precedence and it obfuscates the purpose of Kickstarter, and potentially screws over the people who still want a game.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I don't think so either, good think no one can force them.

[mjemirzian]

You mean an investment means there's a risk of loss? Oh god, what have I kickstarted done?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

as Oscar said I foresaw most of this, the part I missed (which should have been obvious) was that gamers would not only demand too much and refunds/retribution, but that they would see this action as noble/correct on their part and the developer as corrupt and evil. JUSTICE HAS COME AND IT WANTS ITS $15

[mjemirzian]

One of the reasons I avoided this was that the shadowrun license itself probably takes a ton of money on its own. I'm not paying for an IP, I just want a good game to play.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

it should be pretty obvious, though. who wants to feel disappointed when they can feel HANGRY

[Cerveza mas fina]

Hungry + angry?

[Great Rumbler]

I just want a good game to play.

And it looks like that's probably going to happen, despite all the hand-wringing going on over at GAF.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Ill prob buy it, videos looked nice

[Cormacaroni]

I don't even get why checkpoint saves is such a big effin deal anyway. Did people boycott Bioshock Infinite over this?

[Human Snorenado]

It's regressive game design for sure.  But a game that is (wrongly imo but whatever) gonna be on a lot of people's goty lists uses it, so whatever.  Basically, the internet is terrible and video game fans on the internet are probably the worst part of the internet. 

...that's kind of an overstatement.  But they're right up there with furries and bronies, for sure.

[Human Snorenado]

We all have our bete noires, Oscar.

[Great Rumbler]

Update on decking:

To be clear, runs centered around the Matrix don’t occur often and you can’t jack in whenever you want to and travel the vastness of cyberspace. Nevertheless, Matrix runs should be quite a ride.

A Decker's Matrix avatar is automatically created based on his or her "meat-world" appearance. Every three turns a decker’s avatar takes in the cyberspace equals one turn the rest of the party gets in “meat-world”. (Things moves faster in there!) While the decker’s consciousness is running around cyberspace, his body is inert in the real world and the rest of the party needs to defend him until he returns. To exit a Matrix LAN, the decker needs to leave from the same portal he entered or eject and suffer dumpshock damage to his physical body.

As the decker’s avatar navigates a Matrix LAN node, it will encounter Intrusion Countermeasures (IC) which will attack him. To fight the IC, the decker uses computer programs and deploys ESP - Expert System Programs - which are “independently operating artificial life simulations”. ESP operate under the player’s control and each has its own abilities.

The decking skill is used to derive the decker’s “to-hit” calculation and the ESP subskill determines the power of his ESPs. The decker’s cyberdeck determines how many and what level of programs can be taken into the Matrix. There are a variety of different programs for attack, defense, buffing, and debuffing. The cyberdeck is also the decker’s first line of defense - damage the decker takes is first applied to the deck which has its own equivalent of health points called IP. But Black IC or attacks from enemy deckers can damage the decker directly. Every Matrix LAN has an alarm threshold and every action the decker takes within the LAN moves him closer to that threshold. When an alarm is tripped, it might trigger the arrival of Black IC, an enemy decker, or bad things back in the meat-world.

With all the danger inherent in cyberspace, why go there? Because the Matrix LAN nodes can control things in the meat-world like doors, security cameras, automated turrets, security clearances, and even poison gasses flooding into room. And, of course, the Matrix holds the most valuable thing in the 6th world - information.

[Great Rumbler]

Got my key and activated it on Steam! 10 days and counting!

[Great Rumbler]

[Cerveza mas fina]

Goddamit, looks great.

I just got 3 games on the steam sale, do I really need this NOW?

Maybe at xmas sale it will be half price.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Pretty dumb too to release a few days after the sale. They should wait till august.

[Great Rumbler]

Gotta strike while people are still flush with cash from selling cards.

[Great Rumbler]

Eurogamer review is out early:

The initial campaign - Dead Man's Switch - is superbly written, a canny balancing act between world-building backstory, instantly memorable characters and a murder mystery plot that keeps the twists and turns coming at an agreeable clip.

For those who just want to relive the isometric action of the SNES and Megadrive days, Shadowrun Returns easily delivers. It's not the deepest or most flexible game of its type, but there's a lot to be said for simple ideas realised intuitively. Add in some excellent writing and, judged purely as a standalone game, it's an unambiguous success.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-25-shadowrun-returns-review

8/10

[D3RANG3D]

I can't wait to be the Mexican Dwarf.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

or the Mohawk Elf.

[close]

[Himu]

Can you completely customize your appearance?

[Great Rumbler]

Can you completely customize your appearance?

Yes.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Will buy on a sale for sure, cant spend 18 on this when i got tomb raider for 12!

[archnemesis]

Dude, the DRM is Steam and it's a 15-20 hour RPG for €17. You didn't even back the project, why are you feeling entitled?

[archnemesis]

Ideally they would also offer a GOG version, but Steam is the preferred platform for most PC gamers. With a limited budget they had to cut some corners. There are several aspects of this release that are unpolished and that's why I'm waiting for a price drop. If you consider over-promising to be a shady business practice then you might as well pirate every other Kickstarter project.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I think this is one the best kickstarters as its actually delivered a good game.

Kickstarter seems like a 101 on the big bad world of money, projects etc. for so many people.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I wonder if the same people pissing away money on KS are also suprised about the credit crisis.

[Great Rumbler]

They lied to their backers and tried to do some shady shit with the DRM and Berlin campaign. Fuck them.

1. The DRM is through Steam and was totally out of their hands [Microsoft still holds the SR license]

2. The Berlin campaign is still free, upon release, to anyone who backed through Kickstarter

Cause what they did is a shady practice that goes against the KS spirit.

it's a 15-20 hour RPG for €17

To make no mention of fan-made campaigns that are already showing up in the Steam workshop.

[Human Snorenado]

Oh hey, it's another thread where Borys is a point-missing fucktard, who would have known.

[chronovore]

I stopped pirating games some time ago but I will pirate this one

They lied to their backers and tried to do some shady shit with the DRM and Berlin campaign. Fuck them.

Stop rationalizing. Buy it, or don't play it.

[Human Snorenado]

Yeah, it's only ok to pirate Nintendo games.

[Bebpo]

So when they say the gameplay is shallow/simple, how shallow/simple are we talking about?  I couldn't even make it through 5 hours of Costume Quest's battle system. 

Interested in playing this for the good writing and nostalgia, but never a fan of strategy games/rpgs where reviewers throw around the word simple or shallow. 

[Great Rumbler]

So when they say the gameplay is shallow/simple, how shallow/simple are we talking about?

Have you played the new XCOM? It's kinda like that.

[Himu]

um. the new xcom is shallow?

[Human Snorenado]

um. the new xcom is shallow?

No, but "shallow" is video game journalist speak for "like something that already exists" apparently

[Great Rumbler]

Pretty much, yeah. The combat in SR is perfectly fine; it's not anything new or fancy, but it doesn't really need to be.

The only real downsides to the game are the save system [auto-save only, but it's not the worst thing ever] and the length of the main campaign [about 10-12 hours is what I've heard]. As for the latter, there are already two fan-made campaigns up on the Steam Workshop.

[Rufus]

um. the new xcom is shallow?

Relatively. There really isn't much to the way combat works. A hand full of classes, weapons and abilities. Enemy composition, what class you bring with you, when and where you place people is much more important. That's more broad than it is deep, if that makes any sense. Final Fantasy Tactics and maybe even Fire Emblem are more complex, systems wise.
It's probably like the Infinity Engine games, which might look complicated, but unless you crank up the difficulty you'll be sticking to a hand full of abilities and the good old RPG tactic of "tanks tank, casters and archers stay in the back and do a lot of damage, (maybe abuse summoned creatures, maybe have a thief backstab someone)", no matter how many theoretically useful or more ideal spells and abilities are at your disposal.

[Cerveza mas fina]

10/12 hours seems decent for the campaign considering the meat will be all the mods.

And yeah xcom wasnt very complex, at least not on normal.