Let's teach ourselves a language!

[Rufus]

Why not?

Our two public TV networks both have online archives, but I'm not sure if you can access them without a VPN.

ardmediathek.de
zdf.de

As for shows, "Die Sendung mit der Maus" (ARD) should be a decent starting point. It's "How it's made" for children, but a lot of adults like it, too. The twist is that they don't tell you what's being made, it's gradually revealed by showing each step of the process.

I don't watch much TV or movies, so I'm quite uselss for recommendations. I'm especially rubbish with German productions.

Everything's dubbed over here though, so you could always just re-watch something in the German version.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I mean why learn a language of a country where most people speak some English 

[Rufus]

That would make sense for a brief visit, but it seems like he want a window into the culture.

[Mupepe]

Why not? (Image removed from quote.)

Our two public TV networks both have online archives, but I'm not sure if you can access them without a VPN.

ardmediathek.de
zdf.de

As for shows, "Die Sendung mit der Maus" (ARD) should be a decent starting point. It's "How it's made" for children, but a lot of adults like it, too. The twist is that they don't tell you what's being made, it's gradually revealed by showing each step of the process.

I don't watch much TV or movies, so I'm quite uselss for recommendations. I'm especially rubbish with German productions.

Everything's dubbed over here though, so you could always just re-watch something in the German version.

That's awesome.  Thanks!  I love How It's Made so I'll probably try to track that one down.  Is that show aired on the public networks you linked to?

That would make sense for a brief visit, but it seems like he want a window into the culture.

This is basically it. 

[Sman]

Not really much at all.  But I figure I'll start finding something.  German movies or tv or something. 

Try those German variety shows where they get some middled-aged, German bands/singers and have them singing outdoors with picturesque mountains.

The whole tackiness is always funny to me.

[Rufus]

That's awesome.  Thanks!  I love How It's Made so I'll probably try to track that one down.  Is that show aired on the public networks you linked to?

Here's the page you want.
http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Die-Sendung-mit-der-Maus/Sendung?documentId=1458&bcastId=1458

Those sites can't compete with the BBC's iPlayer. I wish I could just link to a list of all the episodes instead of this jumbled mess of random segments.

Youtube can't help, either. I guess they're having them pull everything, because all I see are endlessly repeated clips of the cartoon segments...

edit:
Good god, I'm trying my best to find a way to display just the episodes, but it's fucking impossible. Our public TV is in shambles. Money out the ass, but can't make a web archive worth shit. It's so shameful.

edit2:
!
Apparently this page will always show the most recent episode for a week:
http://www.wdrmaus.de/aktuelle-sendung/index.php5 (the second link named "hier" on the left-hand side leads to last-week's episode)

One important thing I forgot to mention about the show. The intro is always repeated in a random foreign language, so don't be confused.

Here's an alphabetical list of the non-fictional segments of the show. I don't know why they pull everything apart like this. Sigh.
http://www.wdrmaus.de/sachgeschichten/filme.php5

I hope my frantic editing is not too confusing. I'm way too excited about this.

[Mupepe]

 

I'm going to give some episodes a watch tonight. 

Not really much at all.  But I figure I'll start finding something.  German movies or tv or something. 

Try those German variety shows where they get some middled-aged, German bands/singers and have them singing outdoors with picturesque mountains.

The whole tackiness is always funny to me.

The ones where they yodel and wear suspenders???  Or is that a different culture?

[Rufus]

That's Bavaria. Their culture is what many people outside of Germany think of as typically German. The whole lederhosen and pretzels thing. They probably have more in common with Austria and Tyrol than the rest of Germany. They're also pretty much our version of Texas. Conservative, pious (catholic), individualistic, don't like them Prussians from up north, distinct accent/dialect and it's our biggest (and wealthiest) state. Home to the one true Oktoberfest.

Watch Musikantenstadl if you want to know pain. There's some on Youtube.

[Mupepe]

Holy shit.

https://m.

This made one of my dogs start whining. I actually like it.

It reminds me of Mexican Ranchero music. What else do you have??

[Mupepe]

Also, some of the women in that are    Those outfits are pretty erotic.

Also, Texas seems like a spot on comparison. So many white people and one of those fucking kids has a mullet

[Rufus]

Apparently Musikantenstadl is now known as Stadlshow. I don't know a lot about this stuff. The only names that come to mind are Helene Fischer (she had a played to death hit that I don't even want to think about), Stefanie Hertel and Roberto Blanko (gotta see his hair). Here are some keywords for you: Schlager (pop), Volksmusik (the lederhosen kind), Blasmusik (if you like brass) and Volkstümliche Musik (not quite lederhosen, but calls back to it). Heino is probably the biggest name there. He's covered Rammstein recently.

Buncha names here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlager_music#Germany_and_Austria

Germans view Schlager as their Country Music and in fact American Country and TexMex are both major elements in the Schlager culture (Is This the Way to Amarillo is regularly played in Schlager contexts, usually in the English original).

Here's a classic you may have seen before.


Man, my Youtube recs are gonna look real weird.

[Mupepe]

Oh dammit. I'm going to be on YouTube for the next couple of hours. This is awesome. I had it on while doing my first Duolingo lesson.

Die Frau, Der Mann. Ich bin ein Mann. Ein Mann und eine frau und Brot und Wasser

[Cerveza mas fina]

Schools starts again today, 5 hours of Danish every week after work. Pfff.

Im on the last module so I could be "done" by Christmas, but I sure don't feel ready, really need to step up my game.

[archnemesis]

Are you using Danish in your everyday life? Attending classes won't be enough to learn the language.

Have you tried listening to public service radio? In Sweden we have news shows made for beginners. You could also borrow novels in simplified language from your local library.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Nope, don't need it. Talk to my wife in Danish sometimes and my baby (and her family). Hard to learn in a country where you don't need to speak the language really.

Reading is not a huge problem really, it's more talking etc. We watch Danish tv and tv with Danish subs all the time. Like the subs are always on no matter what we watch so I'm reading a lot.

I can definitely feel I learned a lot in two years, but I just want to be fluent.

[Mupepe]

So I think my German has gotten to the point that I really need to start being around the language to progress.

So I'm looking for recommendations on news sources or something I can subscribe to on Facebook. Also any TV shows I can easily access on YouTube or something?

[Rufus]

So I think my German has gotten to the point that I really need to start being around the language to progress.

So I'm looking for recommendations on news sources or something I can subscribe to on Facebook. Also any TV shows I can easily access on YouTube or something?

The oldest and I think most watched news show on TV:
https://www.youtube.com/user/tagesschau

Popular science with fancy animations. Sadly went English only a while ago, but there are still a lot of German videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/KurzgesagtDE

Arte's Mit Offenen Karten. In-depth geopolitics. French dubbed over in German, which might be confusing (the host died recently :'():
http://ddc.arte.tv/alle-folgen

Deutsche Welle have their own learning section:
http://www.dw.com/de/deutsch-lernen/s-2055
http://www.dw.com/en/learn-german/s-2469 (same section in English)
http://www.dw.com/de/31122016-langsam-gesprochene-nachrichten/a-36960294 (slow and clearly enunciated news, with transcripts)

Found a Quora thread with many more, including Youtube channels focused on teaching:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-best-resources-online-to-learn-German

[Rufus]

Youtube would probably be the best resource for colloquial German, but I know all of two German Youtubers by name. Never actually watched any of their videos so I can't give any recommendations.

H-have fun going through this list, I guess?
https://socialblade.com/youtube/top/country/de

[Mupepe]

Thanks guys! I chose news because I wanted to start seeing some things from different perspectives and the wide range of exposure to different topics and vocabulary through news. That was my thought process at least. I'm almost done with Duolingo but for awhile I haven't felt like any skills besides vocabulary have progressed.

[Himu]

News is a great source but if you get bored of that check out hobbyist stuff in German like German gun/car fan sites and stuff

[Himu]

If you're going to use genki, and you're learning via self study, you'll have to use external sources. Genki is made for university students. Not self learners. It has homework and stuff. And homework is hard to do if you're using a university textbook outside of a class setting. For this reason, you need to use outside help to check your homework for you.

I highly suggest this site to use to check your homework via Genki. Or for people like Mupepe who feel they should be around their target language more.

http://lang-8.com

What I wrote on lang8 earlier:

6. If you want to practice writing and reading your target language (any language), join Lang-8 and Skype.

http://lang-8.com/

It supports multiple languages. It's a social network meets language study. You make friends with natives of your target language. The point is you write something in your target language, and one of your native friends who knows that language corrects what you wrote and makes suggestions. Then you help people learn your native language. It's a give and take process. Some people (like me) write what what they're thinking in their native language so someone trying to learn English can read what I'm writing and then read the Japanese version I wrote. That way they can compare and help themselves too and we can help each other get better. It's an amazing resource. You can use Lang 8 with Genki if you get Genki. Genki is made for a classroom setting and one of the things about that is that there's homework to be graded. You obviously can't grade your own homework on your own. So one way to use Lang 8 is writing your Genki homework in Lang 8 and having someone correct it. The main issue with Lang 8 is it is entirely dependent on that persons level of language. We obviously all don't use the same rules and styles of the same language, but it's generally an amazing resource no matter what language you're learning.

Skype will allow you to talk directly to natives who speak your target language. There are programs on the internet that people do and speak to each other to help listening comprehension, speed, vocab, whatever.

As for learning kana words vs kanji I suggest learning kanji first.

[VomKriege]

So how good DuoLinguo is really ?

I tried it today and will continue and do my best with constant effort for Italian : I have some terrible experience doing german in school, I think I'm really bad at accentuating the correct syllabe and keeping all that info in mind because French accentuate the end one in most cases, so I wanted to do something that is fairly familiar by virtue of common roots and where pronunciation is not an issue.

DuoLinguo seems very well done and free but I guess at some point I will have to supplement it with something more beefy, at the very least an exercice book (or classes but those cost $$) on top of using films and/or books for immersion ?

Would be interested to hear some feedback on this.

[Samson Manhug]

Theoretically duolingo can make you fluent enough to translate written documents. That's the point and why they bother teaching people for free. Obviously verbal fluency will require supplementation with actual people. It's my favorite program/app I've ever used, though. Better than Pimsleur tapes, Rosetta Stone, military proprietary language learning software, etc.

[VomKriege]

That's really fascinating, what a wonderful world 
I'll try doing this for a few weeks, can't hurt and let's you learn some core before getting really serious if possible.

[Samson Manhug]

I should add that they want people to translate written documents because they present it to you as education and then sell those translations. #worthit

[VomKriege]

I should add that they want people to translate written documents because they present it to you as education and then sell those translations. #worthit

Can't get nuthing for nuthing I guess...

[Samson Manhug]

Duolingo gives you a placement test.

[Himu]

In regards to duolingo/lang8, at what level should I jump in?

Never used duolingo but for Lang8 any level so long as you're writing actual Japanese and not romaji.

[Himu]

Install Japanese IME into Windows.

http://www.yesjapan.com/video/pages/install-japanese-windows-7-vista.html

Anyways, don't have time for language studies anymore with all of my free time invested in my art/working out. I try to keep it up though by reading nhk and the occasional skype. I need to keep it up to par for when I actually visit Japan next year. I really want to get to N2 level which is an advanced level but that requires a lot more time than I have now. It really sucks, but I've accomplished my goal I guess.

[chronovore]

Speaking of media like movies and tv shows that give you exposure to the language.

Some movies are not so good for this. Or tv shows. I tried to watch some fancy German show but there was very little dialogue. Basically sometimes film makers try to use the cinematography to tell the story instead of lots of talking, but that's not very good if you wanna hear people speak the language.

I thought Aguirre The Wrath of God was such a movie. Not very little dialogue, but not very heavy on dialogue either. You want something chatty to get some exposure to a language.

I saw season 1 and 2 of a French TV series Engrenages (Spiral). That was reasonably chatty and suitable to get some exposure. Especially because there's some cursing as well.

But it's a pain having to search for stuff like this, I have to say. Getting exposure to Japanese has been easy. French, a bit more difficult and German a lot harder.

Yeah, anime is not great for learning Japanese, because it's difficult to parse sounds when we can't see someone's speaking mouth. Many SF anime, such as Evangelion, also use pseudoscientific Japanese terms which don't have any common use-case.

[tiesto]

Anybody here have any good recs for a 'learn Japanese' podcast series? A number of my coworkers are eager to help me practice and I have a 45 minute commute, so this would be the perfect time to pick it up again (I took 2 years worth in college but that was so long ago).

[Rufus]

I wouldn't memorize sentences, no.

Standard phrases are useful as fallbacks, but to be creative, you're going to need a solid grasp on grammar (and vocab) to do anything, so grab those conjugation charts and do the work. Feels redundant to say, but you asked...

[Valkyrie]

bu, you don't have to be formal with ないです。Even in formal speech, I can't say I ever hear people use the polite form.

I've done sentences memorization a lot, but it's probably different when you live in the country whose language you're learning, since it works well with immersion. After learning the grammar etc, of course.

[chronovore]

So ではありません is the most formal way to write a "negation sentence" (やまださんは学生ではありません） and じゃないです is the most colloquial way to write it.

 You can also mix it so it can go じゃありません or ではないです since じゃ is a contraction of では and ありません/ないです mark the same "not" sentence.

 But if I were to practically go around in Japan, which would I use more often? My books contradict which is the most common, is it safer to just go around using the most formal way possible of speaking sentences? Or is that too stiff?

I'm usually using じゃないです most commonly. I use ではありません only when I'm in opposition to someone else, because I become stiffly polite when I'm angry. Then it all falls apart if I get pushed past that that, when it becomes 「やけどそうじゃないやろう、このfuckingやろう。ああ？どうやこの態度？」but at that point there's no actual communication happening.

[Mupepe]

Rufus recommended me some German shows earlier in this thread.  Those really helped me with my German practice.  They were pretty entertaining to boot.

[EVOL]

Rufus recommended me some German shows earlier in this thread.  Those really helped me with my German practice.  They were pretty entertaining to boot.

I better check those out, I've been interested in picking up a new language for shits and giggles.

I can speak Korean and English perfectly fluently, while my Japanese is decent - N1 level on the JLPT test, so I thought it'd be interesting to check out German. My interest in German is pretty much limited to Einstuerzende Neubauten's music and German philosophy (which I'm obviously not going to be able to read comfortably in this lifetime). I don't really give a shit about learning any other language though, so it's probably my best choice for now.

Assimil seems to be recommended a lot, does anybody have any experience with it?

[chronovore]

N1 level on the JLPT test

 

[EVOL]

N1 level on the JLPT test

 

Learning Japanese by using Korean as a reference language is pretty much playing on very easy mode

Other than mastering the 使役 and 受動 forms there weren't really too many grammatical barriers to go through. Memorising Kanji is a bitch, but learning traditional Chinese characters is a part of the Korean public school curriculum though, so I have a lot less trouble memorising/writing them than what the average Westerner would.

It probably helped that I was already bilingual, I seemed to pick it up a bit quicker than my peers despite having absolutely no interest at first and not taking classes seriously at all. Still took me 3 years tho

[Himu]

Started Assimil French and began the immersion stage. A+ quality as always and it's such a foot off my neck to learn a language with a Latin alphabet. French pronunciation is different in that words don't sound how they're written but listening repeatedly and playing back everything I hear helps with that.

[Himu]

When I taught myself Japanese and did Assimil I translated every single word in to English and back into Japanese to instill kana and kanji memory. With French I feel like, I don't have to do that. Although it's passive, it's also still a challenge.

[Raist]

French pronunciation is different in that words don't sound how they're written

I always find it funny. It doesn't sound how it's written from a non-french speaker perspective. But it's overall extremely consistent.

Tell me, which one of these sounds like how it's written:

Enough
Through
Though
Borough
Plough

English pronunciation is the worst

[Himu]

I agree.

I decided to drop Assimil French. It's not clicking the way the Japanese course did. I'm doing a different immersion program.

[Raist]

My favourite when english friends/colleagues go on about "bu-bu-but why do you guys have words with so many letters you don't even pronounce  :'("

Oh yeah? Explain "Leicester" or "sword" to me motherfucker

[Raist]

Yeah well I don't live in the 1200's now do I.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not until Brexit fully hits at least.

[close]

[Himu]

I switched from Assimil to FSI's course. It works far better for me and course is utterly fantastic.

Starting with French Phonology.

[Raist]

Good luck with "r". Apparently it's one of the most difficult things to pronounce right. People tend to go for the Spanish or German version, which isn't quite right.


And, everyone's favourites, "an/en" "on" and "in/un/im".

Although it's funny when Brits tell me "an/en" is really hard to pronounce, cause it's really close to the sound in "can't". Following the British English pronunciation, that is.

[Himu]

What's the difference with the French r?

Oh, by the way. Il est midi.

[Raist]

It's hard to explain. It's closer to the German "ch" (as in "ach") but softer, and at the same time more vocalized.

There's probably a million videos on youtube "teaching" it.

[Himu]

This channel might be one of the greatest language learning resources I've ever seen.

There's a super easy series



And then a regular series where they talk to French people about politics and philosophy that's more advanced.



Then there's an entire channel with free French cinema.



The amount of learning resources available to me when learning French is an ocean compared to what I had when learning Japanese.

[Raist]

If you want a super technical explanation on the French "R" (or Rs as the title says, since there are some very subtle variations), there you go:



Bonus points for the cliché pedantry - this guy has to be the Frenchiest of French dudes on Youtube 

[Himu]

French is such a rhythmic language.

Take the following sentence.

Je vais déjeuner.

It's simple and means something as basic as I'm going to lunch but basically every syllable rhymes. It has such a nice flow and said normally, or fast in other words, it sounds like poetry.

I can only imagine french poetry. Much less french hip hop. I imagine it sounds amazing.

[TEEEPO]

[Raist]

Much less french hip hop. I imagine it sounds amazing.

There you go. Probably the most successful and influential French hip-hop singer. Born in Sénégal tho.

[Raist]

people that fetishize the french language

 

[Himu]

Wow. French is such a logical language. For example, I thought Raist's name was Ray-st all this time. After doing French Phonology course for FSI I now know it's likely just pronounced Rays or Ray. Not sure yet as I haven't gotten to st enders.

Also FSI is fantastic.

[Raist]

Well, yes and no. It would be pronounced that way if it were French, but it's from Dragonlance so even in French the "st" is pronounced.

Although it's more likely to be pronounced as "Rest".


Fun kind of related fact, the circumflex accent has in many cases in Modern French replaced an "s" before a consonant.

Forest > Forêt

Hospital > Hôpital

It still however remains in words derived from those, like "déforestation" or "hospitalité".

[Himu]

é, ez, er, ais all sound the same. So logical.

Vous, ou, mou, joue, doux all have the same OOH sound in the ou. Contrast with English: south, you, mouth. Like Japanese, French appears to be logical in contrast with English.

[Nintex]

You should all try hard mode and learn Dutch

Jullie zouden allemaal een hogere moeilijkheidsgraad moeten proberen en Nederlands gaan leren.