Author Topic: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"  (Read 4930 times)

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Flannel Boy

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"gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« on: May 31, 2013, 07:11:42 AM »
 :beli :comeon :gurl :kobeyuck :mindblown :what :picard

archie4208

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 07:15:57 AM »
 :badass

chronovore

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 07:17:53 AM »

fistfulofmetal

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 07:19:33 AM »
naughty gods
nat

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 07:20:20 AM »
When the console gaming industry crumbles apart in the coming years, a lot of pseudointellectual game reviewers/journalists are going to get washed out.  It's going to be glorious.
🍆🍆

fistfulofmetal

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 07:27:35 AM »
Funny considering the quote comes from Empire Online and not one of the typical gaming websites.
nat

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 08:10:28 AM »
What is this aboot?

hampster

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 08:23:02 AM »
Call me when gaming has its Die Hard moment :rock
Zzz

Flannel Boy

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 08:30:33 AM »
What is this aboot?
A phrase in a review of "the Last of Us." A similar comparison has been made before in reference to other games, such as Metroid Prime or Bioshock.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 08:35:34 AM »
How embarassing  :lol

archie4208

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 08:39:39 AM »
Call me when gaming has its Die Hard moment :rock



Awesome game.  :rock

Great Rumbler

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 08:53:17 AM »
:zzz
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 09:23:31 AM »
I'd bet good money most of the folks that toss around these "Citizen Kane" comparisons have never seen the film.
sup

Flannel Boy

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 09:33:24 AM »
I'd bet good money most of the folks that toss around these "Citizen Kane" comparisons have never seen the film.

Don't act so superior just because you watched the movie on its opening weekend.

magus

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 10:04:10 AM »
I'd bet good money most of the folks that toss around these "Citizen Kane" comparisons have never seen the film.

i actualy watched the whole thing just to see what was the big deal :lol
<----

Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 10:31:01 AM »
I'd bet good money most of the folks that toss around these "Citizen Kane" comparisons have never seen the film.

I'm waiting for the remake. Hopefully, the title will be shortened to either being simply "Citizen" or "Kane."

Powerslave

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 03:32:44 PM »
Uncharted sucks.

Steve Contra

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2013, 03:58:48 PM »
I'd bet good money most of the folks that toss around these "Citizen Kane" comparisons have never seen the film.

I'm waiting for the remake. Hopefully, the title will be shortened to either being simply "Citizen" or "Kane."
"Kane" a Baz Luhrmann film
vin

etiolate

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2013, 04:04:40 PM »
"It's A Sled." a Michael Bay film

Steve Contra

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2013, 04:11:18 PM »
I'll spoil Citizen Kane Manabyte style:

So it turns out the name of his sled all along was

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Rosebud
[close]
vin

Human Snorenado

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2013, 04:36:41 PM »
yar

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2013, 04:48:02 PM »
I'd bet good money most of the folks that toss around these "Citizen Kane" comparisons have never seen the film.

I'm waiting for the remake. Hopefully, the title will be shortened to either being simply "Citizen" or "Kane."

neither, it'll be called "CKX"
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Joe Molotov

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2013, 05:16:36 PM »
Sounds like an awesome game, can't wait. :rock
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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2013, 05:18:49 PM »
Why isn't there already a Citizen Kane: The Game?

Eel O'Brian

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2013, 05:31:58 PM »
Hearst Corporation has ties to the Gaming Illuminati
sup

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2013, 06:01:39 PM »
Well, when I first watched Citizen Kane my first thought was "this would be better with QTE"
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 06:04:28 PM by Phoenix Dark »
010

etiolate

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2013, 06:38:29 PM »
Hearst Corporation has ties to the Gaming Illuminati

Citizen Operate Communist Kane X Lynch.

Damian79

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2013, 07:04:18 PM »
So exactly what would make a Citizen Kane moment for you guys in a game?  IMO its the gameplay that would do it for me.  I would say Expeditions Conquistador is coming close.  But then a lot of games come close.

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2013, 07:14:24 PM »
the Citizen Kane of games is Pac-Man, nobody noticed because it was actually a game
乱学者

Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2013, 07:25:06 PM »
So exactly what would make a Citizen Kane moment for you guys in a game?  IMO its the gameplay that would do it for me.  I would say Expeditions Conquistador is coming close.  But then a lot of games come close.

My position is that it's a stupid comparison to make and that anybody who attempts to compare a video game to Citizen Kane is an asshole.

Steve Contra

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2013, 07:26:24 PM »
anybody who attempts to compare a video game to Citizen Kane is an asshole.
Please either newsfeed this, or put it on the front page.
vin

Shaka Khan

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2013, 07:28:29 PM »
I never watched Citizen Kane, so whenever I hear reviewers throw that line around I go: "Wow, that good? Wait... I don't even get the reference." I wonder how many people out there are like that.

In other news I'm renting Citizen Kane this weekend from Amazon for 2.99.
Unzip

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2013, 07:39:08 PM »
No, I deserve it. I'm the Citizen Kane of message board losers.
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Flannel Boy

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2013, 07:46:24 PM »
Flower is the Duomo di Milano of videogames.

Flannel Boy

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2013, 07:46:45 PM »
In other words, neither are videogames.

Don Flamenco

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2013, 07:53:08 PM »
In other words, neither are videogames.

u can't tell me whut to think if it's like that to me then it is ghrreat and you can't tell me that it isn't because it is teh art and aret is whad i want it to be like bioshock infrinite and tom braider and everybody else agree wit me so u wrong why u hater stop being so seriously but bioshock and kingdom herts are better than any book or movie!

Great Rumbler

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2013, 08:15:54 PM »
Calling something that just came out the "Citizen Kane" of whatever subject you're discussing is absurd. Even Citizen Kane wasn't the Citizen Kane of movies until well after it had been released; much of its recognition as one of the greatest movies of all time didn't come until the 50's [an entire decade after it was first released].
dog

etiolate

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2013, 08:22:13 PM »
It is weird that people are looking at current releases to find some sort of landmark game. Of course, maybe I misunderstand what they intend by "citizen kane of videogames", since it seems to routinely be used for cinematic games. I assume CK of Vidya meant a game that showed the artfistic, interesting or powerful things you can only do in particular with a videogame. Instead of a game that does things we've already seen, just done very well in this case.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2013, 08:42:15 PM »
No, I deserve it. I'm the Citizen Kane of message board losers.

Well that's definitely the Citizen Kane of Mea culpas
010

Huff

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2013, 09:59:18 PM »
I never watched Citizen Kane, so whenever I hear reviewers throw that line around I go: "Wow, that good? Wait... I don't even get the reference." I wonder how many people out there are like that.

In other news I'm renting Citizen Kane this weekend from Amazon for 2.99.

I figured I was the only person in the boat of never having watched Citizen Kane. Unlike you, it's a nice boat and I'm going to keep on sailing
dur

Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2013, 10:03:02 PM »
I'm the Plan 9 from Outer Space of The Bore community.

Fine. But I got dibs on the title of being the Manos the Hands of Fate of The Bore.

Great Rumbler

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2013, 10:07:34 PM »
I'm the Plan 9 from Outer Space of The Bore community.

Fine. But I got dibs on the title of being the Manos the Hands of Fate of The Bore.

I'm the Last Action Hero of The Bore.
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Trent Dole

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2013, 10:39:01 PM »
I'm the Plan 9 from Outer Space of The Bore community.
ooh, Can I be the Robot Monster? Or maybe The Violent Years! :hyper
Hi

Eel O'Brian

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2013, 11:03:30 PM »
Calling something that just came out the "Citizen Kane" of whatever subject you're discussing is absurd. Even Citizen Kane wasn't the Citizen Kane of movies until well after it had been released; much of its recognition as one of the greatest movies of all time didn't come until the 50's [an entire decade after it was first released].

Some old folks like to retcon being influenced by it, for whatever reason. My favorite was reading an interview with Bob Kane years ago where he talked about how it influenced his art style when creating Batman, and the interviewer didn't call him out on the fact that Batman had been around for two years before Citizen Kane.

It's not even that great of a movie. Touch of Evil smokes it, IMO.
sup

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2013, 11:25:32 PM »
fuck Touch of Evil. Great movie, but I once rented it from the college library right before Christmas break. Totally forgot about it until New Years Day. Turns out it was one of those specially reserved film class movies that has to be returned after 24 hours. $70 fine
:fbm
010

pilonv1

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2013, 12:05:13 AM »
I'm the Plan 9 from Outer Space of The Bore community.

Fine. But I got dibs on the title of being the Manos the Hands of Fate of The Bore.

I'm the Howard The Duck of The Bore.
itm

Human Snorenado

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2013, 07:32:15 AM »
I'm the Caligula of the Bore.
yar

chronovore

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2013, 12:57:10 PM »
I'm the Plan 9 from Outer Space of The Bore community.

I'd call you the Heavy Metal animated movie of The Bore. You've got the underground, slightly dangerous vibe, lots of music, and boobs.

The Bore's own Plan 9 is Methodis, because posts are an incoherent mess, and we're never sure if it was even meant to be taken seriously.

Human Snorenado

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2013, 01:08:31 PM »
Seriously though, fuck everyone who keeps trying to do this.  Games should worry about being the best games they can be.  If you want a cinematic experience, watch some fucking movies.  I would rather game developers worry about making their game something that people years from now will accept as a universal benchmark for the top of the craft than trying to Citizen Kane-ify their works.  Fuck off, you wankers.
yar

Don Flamenco

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2013, 01:33:11 PM »
I feel like when I first started reading gaming sites in general, the sentiment was gameplay over graphics/experience.   that was around 2004 or so.  Even on gaf whenever I started reading that.  I'm still like 98% into gameplay, 2% the rest, with a couple of art style deal breakers (lolis.)  I can't accept this as me becoming an old man and not keeping up with the times or something because writing and VA are still both about the same as back then--awful.   I don't even have a standard in mind.  Deadly Premonition is awful, but at least it has its own identity and rips off something interesting.  A lot of these games are just dude's struggle set to orchestral music.

9 times out of 10, many flaws are ignored and big exceptions made in order for the game's story and cinematics to rise above.  A lot of times the gameplay is completely discounted, almost like someone has bought two products-- a game and a shitty movie that plays throughout the game.  All of Columbia attacking John Bioshock throughout the course of that game is just jarring.  As a whole, it's objectively bad in terms of story-telling. You MUST totally discount the gameplay in order to make Bioshock Infinite make sense-- almost every part of it is a video game where the things on screen are enemies that you deal with, who aren't trying to mimic real life in any way--they're shit to kill.  Tomb Raider is the other great example--goddamn they wanted your emotions so badly, but they made a regular mass murder TPS, which reveals itself about 10 minutes into the game.

Then there's other stuff where jillions of dollars have been poured into the project, but the story, whether it's in a game or not, is just completely terrible--Assassin's Creed. 

The Citizen Kane-seekers think that if they lower their standards enough (and if they've been gaming without thinking critically for 20 years, only stopping to take in some comics and shitty movies, those standards are at the bottom of the ocean) the things that blow them away can suddenly be held up as a great work that stands up in comparison to any other media. 

What's frustrating for me is that gaming has its strengths, but they are more difficult to talk about.   Think about how shallow gameplay talk is on most forums.  It's tough to put into words what's enjoyable without resorting to generalities.  But I think the only area in which modern gaming is really "itself" compared to other media (which all have unique identities of their own that gaming co-opts) is in gameplay.  Gameplay should be the thing that gets picked apart critically, while all the cinematic stuff gets generalized as "world building" with the connection between the two just being how the game world facilitates gameplay interaction. 

Otherwise, you're stuck chopping up games into little segments, totally throwing away the pieces that don't fit, and left with a bunch of elements that basically reduce games to shitty movies.

Not to say someone can't like games for their cinematic/experience elements, but the guys who are trying to claim "masterpiece" on certain titles just do it in the least honest way possible. 





It reminds me of crazed comic book geeks in so many ways that it's not even funny. Most people are cool with comics and videogames from my experience, it's just that the stigma stems from one thing and one thing only: being a creepy self obsessive nerd. Creepy self obsessive nerds don't realize that nobody actually hates them for liking videogames, but cause they are creepy and obsessive about it. And they think "legitimizing" videogames would suddenly make their dads less disappointed in them and have women fling their panties in their direction. While I do think games can be considered art, the whole "Videogames are art!" argument obviously wreaks of nerdlingers trying to justify all the wasted time. It's the main reason most human beings either don't care or don't take it seriously.


Nolan Batman!   

« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 01:37:07 PM by Don Flamenco »

brob

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2013, 02:09:03 PM »
I've always had a hard time reconciling the disparate nature of a video game's narrative and it's systems. Tomb Raider with it's Deer Kill™ for instance, which implies that Lara needs to eat to survive - which would have been a narrative element expressed systemically - is just a video where Lara takes a life for the first time and cries about it to set up the two hour arc to her becoming a walking ice-pick & bow massacre machine. Then you massacre for four more hours I guess? I've always found that resource management games are very good at telling stories so I was disappointed Tomb Raider didn't bother. The Void (my avatar) does this nicely. Everything in that game is tied to expendable (and continuously depleting) resources, it gives the game a sense of this creeping need to be productive, to scour for more resources, to be careful about using them, but always press forward in fear of running out. This is supported by the narrative presented in videos and dialog and it works together wonderfully.

The Void is kinda difficult to get into however, so let's use more recent, simpler games to state the same example: Cart Life let's you play as a immigrant coming to America trying to make a living running a small business. In the case of the demo you play as a dude setting up a newspaper stand. You have to pay for the stand, your rent, your newspapers, set prices, you have to small talk with customers, give them the accurate amount of change, if you want you can sell coffee which requires you to go get a coffee pot, coffee and cups at the store and of course set the price of coffee. Papers, Please is another indie game that posits you as a clerk at a border checkpoint and you have to do the menial tasks you assume a border checkpoint clerk does. It is also a great with it's narrative for the same reasons as Cart Life. 

All of this amounts to games where you feel much more connected to whatever it is that is going on in the game and the stories that are told there.

Another note is how strange it is that Bioshock(1) was credited with this grand deconstruction of player agency, something that Half-Life 1 tackled back when I was still struggling to tell time on a analog watch.  Half-Life only beats you over the head with this message a couple of times though, maybe players needed Bioshock to beat them into pulp before they figured out that video games are restrained by the design of the game, I dunno. People who play video games are dumb, I guess.

Great Rumbler

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2013, 02:53:03 PM »
2013's Citizen Kane of games is Wasteland 2.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2013, 03:42:26 PM »
I just wanna play some vidyas. :larry
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Flannel Boy

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2013, 03:51:54 PM »
This second page is the Loki of evilbore.

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2013, 04:56:33 PM »
Im the Brian Flanagan of the Bore.

Flannel Boy

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2013, 11:02:56 PM »
Im the Brian Flanagan of the Bore.

You can get away with a lot more on this forum if you were its Chinatown

Raban

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2013, 11:06:46 PM »
Im the Brian Flanagan of the Bore.

You can get away with a lot more on this forum if you were its Chinatown
:dead

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2013, 03:07:54 AM »
I'm not taking advice from 500 days of summer.

magus

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2013, 07:47:22 AM »
can i be the naked gun of the bore? :smug
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Don Flamenco

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Re: "gaming’s Citizen Kane moment"
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2013, 07:56:11 AM »
i'm the rainman of the bore