HALLOWEEN UPDATE: PRODUCTION DELAYED, ZOMBIE TO REWRITE SCRIPT

[The Fake Shemp]

... it's awful.

The script starts out with a home movie of the Myers family, which freezes on a gap-toothed young Michael Myers grinning for the camera. The title HALLOWEEN is placed here. From this point on, we're treated to over 40 pages of the Young Michael Myers Chronicles. In these adventures, bullies pick on him, his stripper mom's redneck boyfriend (to be played by William Forsythe) calls him a taco and keeps talking about fucking his mom in front of him and the 10 year old Myers masturbates to Polaroids of various animals he's killed while listening to them die on playback from his trusty tape recorder.

...

In the original film, Myers was bigger than a serial killer or a psychopath. He was evil. Unemotional. Uncaring. He was the boogeyman. Hence the ending line. His character was never even referred to in the script as Michael, but as The Shape.

When you explain away Michael, giving him modern day serial killer hellish upbringing, you take away his power. He no longer represents a myth bigger than a person, he doesn't represent death incarnate. He's just an average psycho in a mask. There's nothing special to him anymore.

I was hoping that Zombie, as a professed fan of Carpenter's film, would understand that and it's my biggest disappointment in the script that Zombie doesn't seem to.

...

We meet adult Michael Myers on page 48 and here's another shocker. There's a reason Tyler Mane was cast. Michael Myers is described in the script as being 6'10" and 280lbs. Again, that strikes me as being untrue to the original character. Making him a hulk of a being kind of puts him into the Jason or Leatherface realm, no?

As an adult, Michael Myers feels like an amalgam of the Myers we know and Leatherface from the CHAINSAW remakes. He's big and he chases people down. Gone is the sure and steady, calm and unemotional Myers.

Laurie Strode isn't introduced until page 69 and the final moments of Myers stalking Haddonfield don't really happen until the last 20/25 pages. And yes, it does feel rushed.

And yes, adult Michael Myers, with the mask, does speak. Ugg... And yes, they try to show Myers' "human" side in the last act. Double Ugg...

The good news is just from a pure exploitation angle, Zombie included lots of gore and a ridiculous amount of nudity. It's going to really weird me out if Hanna R. Hall (the first Jenny in Forrest Gump) reveals as much as the script requires Judith Myers to reveal. And the 10 year old Myers groping her before stabbing her is also going to freak me out a tad. Sheri Moon's character is always wearing something skimpy in the script and Danielle Harris' Annie (a great move casting Harris, by the way) gets very exposed (Woo!). Actually, pretty much every female in the script except for Laurie Strode, will get naked. Great. I just wish he'd make that a different movie, take the mask out of it, change the names and not draw the comparisons.

I can see Malcolm McDowell (another great bit of casting) being excellent in the role of Dr. Loomis and I can see him making some of the weak dialog work just out of sheer charisma and talent, but compared to the Donald Pleasance Loomis, I'm afraid he's going to fall short. This Loomis, as written, is too weak and when he goes a little mental trying to talk people into the threat of Myers he just comes off as annoying.

The script has a very high body count, ample nudity and a solid cast. But I firmly believe Zombie completely missed the boat on Myers and is making a big mistake with the story. The script really feels like he just wants to make Halloween... but super-badass hardcore and fuckin' extreme, without a thought to the character work that went into the original.

WTF, ZOMBIE.  WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Update: Zombie delayed production to re-write script! Hooray!

[TVC15]

So it's a radically different take on the story, more in line with what audiences buy today.  Some AICN flunkie is offended because it's not exactly the same as the original.  I'll judge the finished product, thank you very much.

[The Fake Shemp]

Oh, shut it.

I don't care if it's radically different, but he's right.  Creating an elaborate, sympathetic generic serial killer profile backstory for Michael Myers ruins the fucking point of Halloween.  There's no way you can spin this.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's not like the originals were some brilliant works of film either so who cares lol. A bad, stupid horror movie? SAY IT AIN'T SO BATMAN

[The Fake Shemp]

Uh, the original is considered a landmark film, Phoenix Dark.  Don't make me open up a can of whoop ass on your feeble cinematic understanding.

This destroys the point of Halloween.  Myers is not supposed to be your Court TV movie-of-the-week serial killer, whose bitter childhood and horrible upbringing give berth to a hulking serial killer... he was the boogeyman.  He's evil.  He kills because he's evil.  Not because he was picked on in school or that his mom is an alcoholic.

[Christopher]

No Hermaphrodite no sale.

[Phoenix Dark]

Meh it was pretty good, not great.

At least it's not cheesier than the shit fest that is Friday the 13th lol

[TVC15]

Oh, shut it.

I don't care if it's radically different, but he's right.  Creating an elaborate, sympathetic generic serial killer profile backstory for Michael Myers ruins the fucking point of Halloween.  There's no way you can spin this.

How about this, Mr. Falls Back on Box Office Records When He Realizes He Can't Defend Spidey 2's Shitty Quality, the script is catering to what sells today.  And from the sound of things, this isn't even a script ready to be shot.  Plus, the person reviewing about is clearly so biased about remaking this using anything other than the original script that it's difficult to take his words at face value.

And look at you talking about THE POINT of Halloween.  Isn't the point basically that we get to see some titties and some girls get killed?  This isn't high art.  It's not like the film is making some high and mighty statement on the nature of evil.  Calling Michael PURE EVIL in the first movie was just a fucking PLOT DEVICE so they didn't have to explain why he was a psycho killer.

[Eel O'Brian]

Well, the original will still be around.  This sounds like a Brentwood direct-to-DVD.  Zombie sucks ass as a film director.  He's about as subtle as farting in church.

[The Fake Shemp]

How about this, Mr. Falls Back on Box Office Records When He Realizes He Can't Defend Spidey 2's Shitty Quality, the script is catering to what sells today.

Nothing you mentioned is relevant to this discussion, other than you like to read what you type!

And from the sound of things, this isn't even a script ready to be shot.  Plus, the person reviewing about is clearly so biased about remaking this using anything other than the original script that it's difficult to take his words at face value.

You are so blinded by your spin that you did not read that the author was not against a remake, is a fan of Zombie and is looking for a shooting script.

You fail again - live your spin at the door!

And look at you talking about THE POINT of Halloween.  Isn't the point basically that we get to see some titties and some girls get killed?  This isn't high art.  It's not like the film is making some high and mighty statement on the nature of evil.  Calling Michael PURE EVIL in the first movie was just a fucking PLOT DEVICE so they didn't have to explain why he was a psycho killer.

No, the point was Carpenter wanted to shake up the genre and make a thoroughly entertaining horror film - which he did.  But he'd be the first person to tell you that Myers was a tool of evil, not an invention of bad parenting.  It's why he's referred to as The Shape; that's been one of Carpenter's big themes from day one.

Dur.

[TVC15]

How about this, Mr. Falls Back on Box Office Records When He Realizes He Can't Defend Spidey 2's Shitty Quality, the script is catering to what sells today.

Nothing you mentioned is relevant to this discussion, other than you like to read what you type!

And from the sound of things, this isn't even a script ready to be shot.  Plus, the person reviewing about is clearly so biased about remaking this using anything other than the original script that it's difficult to take his words at face value.

You are so blinded by your spin that you did not read that the author was not against a remake, is a fan of Zombie and is looking for a shooting script.

You fail again - live your spin at the door!

He's just saying that he wasn't against the remake because he's trying to make his opinion sound credible.

And my first statement, you defend Spidey to the death using only it's box office numbers as a sign of quality.  Box office success was clearly used as a measuring stick when deciding what direction this movie should lean.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's just complete bullshit you pulled out of you ass, and is in no way relevant to the discussion at hand - especially since Zombie is such a so-called horror purist.

I don't use box office figures to defend Spidey, but I will mention it's commercial success combined with critical success to prove it has mass appeal.  I never lean on box office figures as a crutch and I don't have to - Rotten Tomatoes can defend it for me.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm personally against a remake, not because the original is some grand piece of master filmmaking, but because it's done so well and is so entertaining that to attempt to remake it just seems foolish.  I'm willing to give a remake a fair shake, as I was entertained by Snyder's re-imagining (buzz word get!) of Dawn of the Dead.  But it's not supposed to piss all over the original source material.  Carpenter didn't do that with his remake of The Thing, Cronenberg with The Fly or Snyder with Dawn of the Dead - all three quality horror remakes.

This is just bad.  And there's no way to spin it.  Even if it wasn't alienating fans of the original, the concept of a generic serial killer with a sympathetic, horrible childhood is so cliche and ridiculous that it should stop ticket purchases AT THE DOOR.

[TVC15]

Sorry, it's been spun.  You lose, Willco.  Go cry your bitter bitter tears with the AICN flunkies you love so much.  Also, you know marketing will pay off Carpenter in order to get a quote from him saying "This is so much better than what I did.  This is the Halloween I've always wanted to make!  I can't wait for the sequels!"

[The Fake Shemp]

Carpenter will do anything for money, so I don't know why you think I'd defend his artistic integrity.  He directed for AICN scribe Drew McWeeny in one of the most absurd episodes of Masters of Horror yet.

As for spinning, how do I favor AICN flunkies?  I almost never back their opinion.  Their news is credible, though and you can read it right there - Myers now has a cliche serial killer profile.  Myers was The Shape.  The Boogeyman.  Now he's just a Dahmer wannabe.

[TVC15]

Myers was The Shape.  The Boogeyman.  Now he's just a Dahmer wannabe.

Was, Willco, was.  The market wants serial killers.  I want death and tits.  We all win.

[The Fake Shemp]

Considering how profitable the Halloween franchise has been, even when Miramax churns out shitty installments, I highly doubt that.  People want a return to form.

[TVC15]

Considering how profitable the Halloween franchise has been, even when Miramax churns out shitty installments, I highly doubt that.  People want a return to form.

And we all know that won't happen, they've been trying to do make an adequate sequel for 2 decades with very small success.

At least give it this much, going the serial killer/tough childhood route is better than the REALITY TV angle from the last sequel.

[Van Cruncheon]

why can't he be evil exacerbated by bad parenting!

Dexter would pwn Myers, anyhow

[TVC15]

mmmm, Dexter    Best show ever

[The Fake Shemp]

why can't he be evil exacerbated by bad parenting!

Dexter would pwn Myers, anyhow

For someone who has slammed serial killer idol worship in pop culture, and the emo movement in general, I have no idea how you could possibly be for this new plot device other than to make me tear my hair out in rage.

And this isn't evil excerbated, this is just evil created by, and that's so cliche.  The whole let's make him a more-grounded-and-sympathetic-villain-with-a-sad-backstory routine is so overplayed that I want to cockpunch Rob Zombie.

And I like Rob Zombie.

Dexter does rock, though.

[TVC15]

Notice he didn't respond to my previous post because he CAN'T ADMIT I'M RIGHT.

[Bloodwake]

I agree with Willco, this sounds like total shit.

However, I will save my final judgment for whenever I see the film.

[Stocky]

Willco hates zombies.

[Solo]

Halloween is my favorite horror film by a landslide. With that said, I am still giving Zombie the benefit of the doubt after The Devil's Rejects. If he can get hus wife to do some nudity then thats even better.

[The Fake Shemp]

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with an interesting rumored development on Rob Zombie's HALLOWEEN.

My script review wasn't very flattering, but I also purposefully tried to keep the criticism constructive. I think Rob Zombie could make a great movie that is both his own and true to the spirit of HALLOWEEN.

Bloody-Disgusting is reporting a rumor that Zombie has decided to put off production for a little while in order to rewrite the script.

AWESOME.  Best thing Zombie has done yet.

[PhoenixWright]

Trying to make him sympathetic. I KNOW THE SECRET ENDING!

After seeing all the sympathetic stuff, it cuts to his lawyer arguing for him in court. He was caught fior his murders and all that is just what his lawyer is telling the jury in order to win him sympathy points. They still find him guilty, he escapes, and the rest of the movie goes from there.

[Phoenix Dark]

The movie is going to suck just like all of Zombie's movies

[Solo]

Boy I am glad you have no taste, PD. Makes me feel all the better about having the opposite opinions as you. The Devil's Rejects rocks.

Where I agree with Willco: I like this move too. I shows that Zombie actually wants to take the time to get it right....
Where I disagree with Willco: .... which DOESN'T mean a straight up remake. I mean, what's the point? Halloween is the best horror movie ever, and a shot for shot remake will do nothing but disgrace the original. A fresh take is absolutely required, if you ask me.

[Phoenix Dark]

Solo it's too easy to troll you

I've never seen any of his movies

[Solo]

Oh, I forgot trolling is fun for some peeps. Carry on.

[Error Macro]

Well, I hope the rewrite has none of the elements previously discussed.

If it does, then Zombie has jumped the shark!

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm not asking for a shot-by-shot remake.  I don't even really want a remake.  But at least stay true to the source material.  Please see the Dawn of the Dead remake for pointers.

[TVC15]

Fuck staying true to the original material.  If I'm going to see a Zombie flick, I want to see something different.

[The Fake Shemp]

Y'know, it is possible to be different and stay true to the spirit of the source material.  I'm all for a fresh take, but this isn't even fresh - it's just bad.

[TVC15]

Willco you sound like an old man.  And you look like an old man when naked as evidenced by the Willco/Okami sex tape.

[Van Cruncheon]

Halloween isn't even remotely scary! I wanna see some Cell-like fucked up scenes of Myer's childhood, like him taking a hot crumpet in the backside without blubbing.

[TVC15]

Really, Halloween is a nice little movie, but let's not get sentimental here:  It's a definite product of its time and it helped father a genre that's showed us way crazier things.  Halloween seems downright simple compared to what's happened in the nearly 30 years since. 

Willco, we love the movie because we probably saw it for the first time when we were still lil tykes, and at the time it was the coolest shit ever.  If such a simple script were being brought forward for the first time today, not only would it sound pretty tame, but it would sound kind of boring.

Halloween was the bombdizzle when it came out, but its descendents have raised the game.  Some have done it in a brainy way (see Scream), some have gone for being sheer visceral experiences (oh, let's say Saw).  Of course a remake is going to pack in some new tricks, especially with someone as nutty as Zombie behind it, and of course those ideas are influenced by the movies that have been made since Halloween changed the game.

[The Fake Shemp]

Scream is a satire.  Saw is a piece of shit that now negates any criticism you ever make pertaining to film.

[TVC15]

Scream is a satire.  Saw is a piece of shit that now negates any criticism you ever make pertaining to film.

Scream is a satire and a slasher pic.  Last I checked they weren't mutually exclusive.  I have a dirty love for the Saw movies, but my statement had little to do with the actual quality of Saw, and more to do with it showing us things that indicate where the horror barometer is at these days, and how a straight Halloween remake would be well, off the charts.

Not to mention that I guarantee you'd be bitchin' if it was identical.  I can already hear an alternate universe you criticizing Malcolm McDowell (sp) as Loomis, and how this Michael doesn't seem as "evil" as the one in the original, or how this chick isn't just like Jamie Lee, or how the movie will always be inferior because it doesn't satiate your hunger for 70s banana boobs.  No matter how this movie was cut, you were destined to hate it.

[Ecrofirt]

I'm not asking for a shot-by-shot remake.  I don't even really want a remake.  But at least stay true to the source material.  Please see the Dawn of the Dead remake for pointers.

What the fuck are you talking about? The only thing Dawn '04 had that was true to Dawn '78 was the mall.

[Cheebs]

How about that...Evil Dead.

[TVC15]

How about that...Evil Dead.

Boy, I wonder how Willco will react to that?

[Van Cruncheon]

Will Evil Dead have a competent director this time? Me, I vote for Fincher, although he probably wouldn't go so lowbrow.

[The Fake Shemp]

Oh hush, Drinky.  You know you love to smear poop on your chest and watch The Evil Dead.

I don't mind a remake, but it'll be hard to top Bruce Campbell so I think it's folly for anybody to try.

What the fuck are you talking about? The only thing Dawn '04 had that was true to Dawn '78 was the mall.

Snyder took Romero's original, gave it a shot of 'roids, a couple of pills of speed and dropped the social commentary in favor of action.  At the core, it's a zombie movie in a mall.  I know changes to fast moving zombies are considered blasphemous, but it really didn't bother me.  It's not the kind of film Romero made and I wouldn't want a shot-for-shot remake (Gus Van Sant's Psycho comes to mind).  But it takes the basic premise of Romero's film and gives it a fresh coat of paint.

[TVC15]

At the core, it's a zombie movie in a mall.

Just like how at its core, the Halloween Remake is a slasher flick in small town america, with tits?

I know changes to fast moving zombies are considered blasphemous, but it really didn't bother me. 

I know changing the movie to possibly explain Myer's past can be considered blasphemous, but I don't think it is a guaranteed bad idea.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's completely irrelevant.

It's one thing to make zombies faster, they're still undead beings that eat people alive at the core and that remains unchanged.  Just as I really don't mind Michael Myers being played by Tyler Mane, who was one a slow, methodic killer that usually had a pot belly into a big, hulking monster.  At the core he's supposed to be the boogeyman.

Try to learn some trollin' from Drinky, please.

[TVC15]

That's completely irrelevant.

It's one thing to make zombies faster, they're still undead beings that eat people alive at the core and that remains unchanged.  Just as I really don't mind Michael Myers being played by Tyler Mane, who was one a slow, methodic killer that usually had a pot belly into a big, hulking monster.  At the core he's supposed to be the boogeyman.

Try to learn some trollin' from Drinky, please.

Boogeyman?  You're elevating a merely good movie into something great.  It's a slasher flick, and that's what the remake is. 

[The Fake Shemp]

Now you're just being distinguished mentally-challenged.

[TVC15]

Now you're just being distinguished mentally-challenged.

I don't think so.  Awesome soundtrack aside, if I want to watch a classic slasher flick, I'll throw in a Friday the 13th movie.  Same kills, same tits, funnier.  Holloween has kills, tits, and no humor value.  It's a good movie and certainly an innovative one, but I don't think it's something to be worshipped.  Carpenter did much better movies.

[Ecrofirt]

Dawn '04 and Dawn '78 are vastly different. I just can't call it slapping on a fresh coat of paint.

[Eel O'Brian]

The difference between Halloween and most of the other movies you're all talking about is that I can watch Halloween again and again.  It's really Jaws on land.  Good horror films don't stop being good over time, even though the effects in new films are gorier, and the jittery camera work is intentional nowadays.  The Hills Have Eyes remake wasn't one bit scarier than the original, no matter how many Jason Voorhees-style prosthetics they applied to the actors.  I hate the new crop of horror films for the most part, with their MTV quick-cuts, their stupid ironic hipster meta references, their insistence on turning just about every slasher into some sort of anti-hero, and the constant "topping" of each "kill."  Most of todays genre directors wouldn't know a subtle, suspenseful moment even if Hitchcock's lecherous ghost whispered what to do in their ear.

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

Hell, IMO the new Dawn of the Dead is nothing like the original -- no fresh coat of paint, they literally took the most basic plot elements and name from Romero's classic and hit the ground running.

[TVC15]

I don't think the standard horror audience really wants suspense these days.  The trend is towards envelope pushing, and while I figured I would hate something so obvious, it's actually put some entertaining movies on the table.  Note that I don't think it's better than any other horror trend, but the violence exploitation has proven entertaining, at least.  In 2 years people will want something else, and they'll get it.

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

Well, The Hills Have Eyes remake was a pleasant surprise for me, considering it was less about cheap scares and suspense and more about just creeping you the FUCK out.

[Eel O'Brian]

I actually thought The Hills Have Eyes remake was a solid mainstream shocksploitation flick, but the original was actually scary.  Michael Berryman rules.  Fun Berryman fact - he was born without sweat glands (Hypohidrotic Ectodermal Dysplasia), so they had to continually douse him with water during filming.  And I did enjoy the Texas Chainsaw remake.  I'm not opposed to remakes, or new ways of exploring the horror genre, but sometimes it seems most of the new horror films were all written and directed by the same person.

And with all that in mind, this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0437857/

looks really interesting.

[TVC15]

But you were just ranting against ironic meta hipster references!

[Eel O'Brian]

Well, that's why I wrote "with all this in mind."  It's a neat take on the slasher genre, even if it is dripping with meta.

[Solo]

For the record:

- I have to disagree with Whitey about one thing. I don't think Carpenter did make a single better film than Halloween (although The Thing is close). All the points you've made in this thread further serve to prove just how special and influential Halloween was/is. That it's been imitated to the nth degree for 30 years, and still hasn't been best at what it does, shows what a little gem Carpenter made.

And I will slap the first person to bring Black Christmas into this shit.

- I loved the remake of The Hills Have Eyes. Not so much about scares is at was about making you uncomfortable. Loved it.