Used to be, a white man could compliment a stacked dame's tits--what happened?

[Himu]

If a girl is a booth babe that means her job is to be a slut (tm) all the time, every time, at least according to my limited worldview in which I slap girls asses and compliment their breasts.

[etiolate]

My issue isn't "everyone lighten up", but "everyone have a real discussion". It's either OMG this or OMG that. There's been very little real discussion. After awhile, it gets tiring and you don't even want to venture into that fog.

[Brehvolution]

Why do people care about kotaku? I had to change a bunch of passwords when gawker got hacked a few years ago because I had an account on kotaku. That was a lot of fun.

[thisismyusername]

I figured all the FGC bashing was just projection and picking on minorities.

The FGC is a symptom (way before this became a "huge problem") of the problem.

People like Aeris or whatever his name is, the sexist Tekken dude harm that community more than they help. "BUT THAT'S JUST THE COMMUNITY JOKING!" isn't a valid excuse for things like that. The same could be said of the industry. If the industry wants to be taken seriously, it has to realize that sexist/homophobic jokes and observations and the like don't fly. Wither that's internally in a studio with female employees or at events like E3.

Actually, let me back that up: The FGC isn't a symptom: It's a microism(? I think that's the right term) microcosm of the problem. It shows a pretty abrasive community that when held up the light will insult the person that shined the light on them without learning anything from it. Just like the comment writers in articles about this thing.

[Steve Contra]

Like I was talking to Patel about earlier, the surface shit that the media likes to talk about is just a symptom of the main problem in the games industry, and that it is staffed with juvenile white dudes that are for the most part hostile towards women (especially) in the workforce.  Sitting around complaining that women are portrayed poorly in games won't get you anywhere until there is some seismic shifts in the industry as a whole.

But that's not going to happen because the whole industry is about to take it in the pooper anyway.

[magus]

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598051

All this shit makes my head hurt. Let's just talk about video games.

a post on gaf makes more sense than the one on bore

this is a sad day for all of us

[Himu]

Um.

[Human Snorenado]

My issue isn't "everyone lighten up", but "everyone have a real discussion". It's either OMG this or OMG that. There's been very little real discussion. After awhile, it gets tiring and you don't even want to venture into that fog.

It takes two parties with their heads out of their asses to have a conversation about stuff.

[magus]

magoose, most human beings are capable of all sorts of nuances such as enjoying a product while critically viewing problematic aspects of the industry behind it.

well, most developmentally mature adult human beings, anyway.  so almost no gamers, probably.

whatever old man

wait... is this ageism?

[Steve Contra]

magoose, most human beings are capable of all sorts of nuances such as enjoying a product while critically viewing problematic aspects of the industry behind it.

well, most developmentally mature adult human beings, anyway.  so almost no gamers, probably.

whatever old man

wait... is this ageism?

Mental ageism

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Can't we all just get along?

And by "get along," I mean you shut up and I return to my position of unquestioned privilege.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't we all just get along?

And by "get along," I mean you shut up and I return to my position of unquestioned privilege.

"How is it privilege? It's just how things are. I'm tired of non-gamers trying to make everything so complicated."

[Rahxephon91]

My only problem with this stuff is that it in it's effort to change games, it seems everything that sure has sexist undertones get's attacked. Look, I wish games would be more diverse. It would be nice to play protags who aren't white, male, or American. it would be nice to play games where there's more to it then killing people. I'm all for that. Sometime's though I like fucking boobs and I like shooting guns. I don't need everything to be this thing that pushes game's forward, nor do I need every game that dosen't aspire to do that be talked down to. Hell, I don't want to be talked down to because I like to partake in these things.

These growing pains of video games are just very annoying.

[Steve Youngblood]

My only problem with this stuff is that it in it's effort to change games, it seems everything that sure has sexist undertones get's attacked. Look, I wish games would be more diverse. It would be nice to play protags who aren't white, male, or American. it would be nice to play games where there's more to it then killing people. I'm all for that. Sometime's though I like fucking boobs and I like shooting guns. I don't need everything to be this thing that pushes game's forward, nor do I need every game that dosen't aspire to do that be talked down to. Hell, I don't want to be talked down to because I like to partake in these things.

These growing pains of video games are just very annoying.

Are boobs and guns in any danger of going away?

[Positive Touch]

well here's the neat thing - you can have that! like i just said up there you can still have games just like this because dudes can still make games like that and will always be able to find a publisher and prolly an audience. everyone else is shit out of luck tho because they cant get financing to make a game out of the mainstream.

again, you already have everything so please dont complain when people get mad that they do not.



edit: yessss jaydub showed up

[Himu]

God fucking DAMMIT.

[Hock]

Some gamers need to take themselves out of the argument and stop looking at criticisms of the games and the industry that you love as a criticism of you yourself. I think a lot of people get caught up in that and then it becomes an "i just want to play games" thing. 

[Steve Youngblood]

Some gamers need to take themselves out of the argument and stop looking at criticisms of the games and the industry that you love as a criticism of you yourself. I think a lot of people get caught up in that and then it becomes an "i just want to play games" thing.

Or, they just have some sort of mental deficiency. See for instance JayDubya.

[Trent Dole]

My only problem with this stuff is that it in it's effort to change games, it seems everything that sure has sexist undertones get's attacked. Look, I wish games would be more diverse. It would be nice to play protags who aren't white, male, or American. it would be nice to play games where there's more to it then killing people. I'm all for that. Sometime's though I like fucking boobs and I like shooting guns. I don't need everything to be this thing that pushes game's forward, nor do I need every game that dosen't aspire to do that be talked down to. Hell, I don't want to be talked down to because I like to partake in these things.

These growing pains of video games are just very annoying.

Are boobs and guns in any danger of going away?

Boobs yes guns no.

[Rahxephon91]

Some gamers need to take themselves out of the argument and stop looking at criticisms of the games and the industry that you love as a criticism of you yourself. I think a lot of people get caught up in that and then it becomes an "i just want to play games" thing.

Oh god this is me. I've become like the moe fans.

I just feel like I'm being told I'm dumb because I'm perfectly happy with current games I could not understand why so many bore members were so uninterested in what was shown.

Meanwhile I see people gushing over games like Flower and Daid Cage's stuff and I'm just like "this looks boring".

[Himu]

If you're fine with current games, cool. Many of us are. That doesn't mean we can't critique the games nor their content.

[Steve Youngblood]

Some gamers need to take themselves out of the argument and stop looking at criticisms of the games and the industry that you love as a criticism of you yourself. I think a lot of people get caught up in that and then it becomes an "i just want to play games" thing.

Oh god this is me. I've become like the moe fans.

I just feel like I'm being told I'm dumb because I'm perfectly happy with current games I could not understand why so many bore members were so uninterested in what was shown.

Meanwhile I see people gushing over games like Flower and Daid Cage's stuff and I'm just like "this looks boring".

To me, it's never been about attacking fans in as much as it's about challenging creators. If you are apathetic in regards to this cause, that's fine. You don't have to join in on deriding stuff you enjoy. It's perfectly fine to simply shrug your shoulders and go on about your day.

[Himu]

We are hating because game creators and journalists have the tastes of 12 year olds.

[Himu]

Well the crux of this topic started from sexism in the industry. I think we can start there.

[Himu]

 I agree that content is just a mirror of a larger, more complicated issue. The kotaku article is a good starting point.

[Human Snorenado]

I'm not sure I'm ready to blame anyone entirely for the "way games are".  There are a lot of journos who do their best to highlight games that are different and give them an extra boost, even if they don't really deserve it on their own merits.  As for the game makers, it's become a very risky business, so they're playing it safe, and in an industry historically dominated by young males, that means boobs and guns.  And the customers themselves, while shouldering some blame for buying the same stuff all the time, can't take the full blame because they largely buy whatever is put in front of them with the shiniest spotlight.  Everyone's a little to blame.

If anything's going to change in the big picture, we've got to stop worrying about what's happening in front of the curtain, because that stuff is just a necessary outcome of the real problems happening behind the curtain.  I roll my eyes at stuff like Dead or Alive because I'm a bit of a prick, but the real stuff that needs addressing is the type of thing that Kotaku article was talking about.  The pervasive sexism within the industry itself.  If that gets sorted out, even partially, then you'll start to see more games catering to a variety of demographics.

This, this, this, a thousand times this.

[nudemacusers]

whatever happens please don't take my games away. I get so few os x ports already  :'(

[Himu]

Well jaydubya if you would read the thread we are mostly talking about the industry and how poisonous it is for people who aren't male. This tends to usually be reinforced in the games we play, from the design of Quiet in MGS5 to even the people who rage over Dragon's Crown or Bayonetta as if sexuality is always a case of sexism. When I said the game makers and journalists are like 12 year olds I meant the entire industry, clearly. When the industry continues to make ridiculous comments and views on gender and race, it tends to be seen in the products we buy.

You can't discuss the games without bringing up the industry like Oscar said.

You can gouge the industry by reading the kotaku article Jay.

Also while more women characters are playable, that doesn't stop Suda 51 from making a 10 minute trailer with 30 second clip of game play with just a bunch of loosely dressed women talking about random crap. And that is him trying to SELL THE GAME TO PEOPLE.

[Himu]

Jaydubya:

[Positive Touch]

focusing on BIG TITTAHS misses the point. the point is that we have an entire industry filed with dudes who say"yessss I just got$20 million now I can make my game and fill it with BIG TITTAHS" but when someone comes along and says"hey I got this game idea but I don't want big tittys in it" then everyone else says"NO WE DO NOT WANT THAT" and it never gets funded.

[CajoleJuice]

I was on page 1 of this thread and I cannot stand mojo's one sentence paragraphs. That's all I have to post.

[Don Flamenco]

^thanks

if youre the person being shit on, theres a pretty good chance you dont get any recourse besides places like twitter. white dudes have pretty much everything on lock around here, and we're not giving an inch without a long, pathetic, embarrassing fight. 

NO ONE is stopping these fucks (or most any white dude) from making anything they want or saying anything they want. hell, they can even still get rich as fuck off it. the only backlash they usually have to deal with is the people theyre shitting on criticizing and insulting them. THATS IT. but when you have millions of dicks that have been spoiled since birth and have never really had to deal with any kind of consequences to their actions, this is what you get. straight, middle-class white dudes acting like we're the most victimized people on the planet and boo hoo why wont these asshole be nice to us.

if you feel persecuted because people are being mean to you because you acted like and asshole, then please log off your computer and put a damn gun in your mouth.

Yeah, that's convenient.  Set up a little wall of rage so that nobody can discuss it without being labeled evil white male, sucking all the nuance out of the discussion so that it's an "us vs. them" situation.  go fuck yourself.  You guys don't know shit and are just looking for excuses to boil over. 

edit:  In the real world, people don't work these things out by yelling "WHITE PRIVILEGE" in other people's faces and by enacting action hero movie justice on the evil video game comic artists of the world.  Movements are actually organized and tactical, not a bunch of random rage bullshit. 

[Positive Touch]

 

dons scared they're coming for his doa volleyball. thanks for proving my point that white dudes are the biggest crybabies in the discussion and the biggest obstacle in having a constructive conversation. fortunately there ARE plenty of people (even white dudes!) that are working to get real results.

[Himu]

What's all this bullshit about "white dudes?"  You're relegating people's thoughts to their gender and skin tone and you think that means you're somehow enlightened, and totally not a bigot?

Gotta agree, but white people being self hating fucks is nothing new. Especially when the video *I* posted and the very game Positive called out (DOAX) are made in Japan.

But keep on the crusade against irrelevant debates about white people.

[Positive Touch]

What's all this bullshit about "white dudes?"  You're relegating people's thoughts to their gender and skin tone and you think that means you're somehow enlightened, and totally not a bigot?

this thread has turned out just as awesome as i had hoped

[tiesto]

Like I was talking to Patel about earlier, the surface shit that the media likes to talk about is just a symptom of the main problem in the games industry, and that it is staffed with juvenile white dudes that are for the most part hostile towards women (especially) in the workforce.  Sitting around complaining that women are portrayed poorly in games won't get you anywhere until there is some seismic shifts in the industry as a whole.

But that's not going to happen because the whole industry is about to take it in the pooper anyway.

That's a problem in the whole American tech industry, not just the games industry. My college CS classes were almost all men, and the few women there were Indian or Chinese exchange students. Oh and some cute American girl who scored a job at MS. Go out in the working world and there are very few females in STEM too, at my current job (education management software) only 2 women are in development (one Asian one Indian), we have a few in QA and customer service though... About 80% of all the females I have met in my professional career are Asian or Indian immigrants. I don't know why there are so few American women who are interested in the STEM field.

[Positive Touch]

I don't know why there are so few American women who are interested in the STEM field.

because they read the comments sections

[chronovore]

Can't we all just get along?

And by "get along," I mean you shut up and I return to my position of unquestioned privilege.

"How is it privilege? It's just how things are. I'm tired of non-gamers trying to make everything so complicated."

I was so confused until I noticed the quote marks.

[Don Flamenco]

.

[Positive Touch]

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Inspire Feels - 25 pts.

[brob]

the fullbright dude (dunno if they are a team or if it's just him) used to be on idlethumbs a lot and still guests sometimes. stand up dude. previously worked on bioshock 2 I think.

[Rufus]

Steve Gaynor and (I think) the rest of the team worked at 2K Marin. They made Minerva's Den for Bioshock 2 before they founded the Fullbright Company.

[brob]

1second reply?

 

[Rufus]

1second reply?

 

I added his name after the fact. I was fast enough for the edit message to not show up.

[Himu]

Jesus Christ Don. I love you bro

[Positive Touch]

  holy fuck i just read that. he so mad. that cheev should have been worth more points.

[Robo]

Look, you people will have your turn; but for now, it's a white man's world. 

[headwalk]

[brob]

the preferred nomenclature is 'fair skinned' thanks.

[Trent Dole]

this thread, holy crap.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I want to know where rahxephon is finding all these games that involve fucking boobs

[Trent Dole]

dlsite maybe?

[Don Flamenco]

holy fuck i just read that. he so mad. that cheev should have been worth more points.

of course, you got nothing but "cool forum comebacks," because there's just nothing else there but some sad fuck who hasn't done anything with his life.  as expected.  stay free

[Himu]

Don are you really homeless?

[chronovore]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/06/21/going-one-step-further

I’ve spent the last few days trying to apologize to people I hurt. I’ve been doing it via email and I’ve given out my phone number a lot. I realize I was wrong and I’m genuinely sorry. I also realize I can’t possibly apologize on the phone to each and every person I hurt. I’m going to keep trying, but I’ve also decided to personally make a donation to the Trevor Project of $20,000.00. I also plan to keep interacting with people on a personal level and I understand that will be an ongoing process. In the meantime I’m hoping this donation will do some real good for a group that desperately needs it.