Author Topic: Integrity  (Read 906 times)

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Bebpo

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Integrity
« on: June 26, 2013, 06:40:54 AM »
In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions


So with all the drama that's been going on in my life, I've been pondering a lot on the existential existence of integrity. 


You can live your life, not purposefully fucking people over, and generally attempting to do the right thing and help people.  From what I've experienced in life, the downside of this is you generally lose out on the benefits of capitalism (aka, screw over everyone, it's all about me): wealth, jobs, sex, relationships.  The upside is having integrity and a good conscience and meaningful friendships as people can trust you not to fuck them over.


But at the end of the day, what's integrity worth on an existential level?  What's it worth on a death bed?  When you're there at the end of your life and you look back, what does "I didn't screw people over, and I tried to always do the right thing and help those around me" mean?  A little bit of good feelings before you pass away?  Versus, being on your death bed and looking back at all the money, and women (or men), and great life experiences you had.

Life isn't a game, by "doing the right thing" and being a decent person you don't get the best ending and the most achievement points in the end.  Yeah, the people you don't fuck over actually might hold you up as a better person, a trustworthy person, since they can depend that you won't screw them over.  So you do get meaningful friendships instead of just having a billion friends on a superficial level where no one actually trusts someone deeply.  Maybe that's enough.  Maybe great friendships that can last and give you even better life experiences over the length of it is what makes integrity and a good conscience worth it on your death bed.  Maybe that's the answer.

And then usually in life, things are not so black & white.  People aren't "good" or "bad", they just make choices.  However a consistency of one's actions confirming their core values is the definition of integrity and in modern society it is usually associated with honesty and a good conscience.  So if you say "hey, nobody is perfect.  I'll just shoot for 51% or higher integrity in my life" how can you keep a good conscience and honesty and integrity in your values of not fucking people over and then still go ahead and occasionally fuck someone over, especially if it's someone close?  How can you screw over a close friend and hurt them for your benefit and rationalize that with your integrity?  It just seems to me that although there are usually grey areas, it's hard to be intentionally shooting for grey with integrity.  If you believe in doing the right thing, you can't just "not do it" sometimes when it would greatly benefit you (to the detriment of someone else who trusts you).

Which all goes back to the start of how much all that is worth then.  A life time of integrity, a good conscience, honesty and trustworthyness.  If those are important values for a person to have with those around them, then when it comes to those people, they'll always have to choose their integrity if they want to keep it and not be hypocritical, even if it means losing many opportunities presented to them in life because of it.  But what does that person get at the end of the day in a world with no heaven or hell, no true good or evil?  What does the person get other than a "feel good for being a decent person" moment at the end of their life in exchange for missing out on all the opportunities they gave up throughout their lives because they needed to maintain integrity and do the right thing?  Which is probably about the same as asking just what's the meaning of life at this point.  Maybe it's also 42.





tl;dr, why is it worth being a decent human being instead of a horrible capitalistic pig in the game of life?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 06:57:17 AM by Bebpo »

Momo

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 07:28:45 AM »

demi

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 07:39:06 AM »

tl;dr, why is it worth being a decent human being instead of a horrible capitalistic pig in the game of life?

Why is it worth being a horrible capitalistic pig instead of a decent human being?
fat

MCD

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 07:45:52 AM »

DCharlieJP

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 07:58:12 AM »
Quote
Which all goes back to the start of how much all that is worth then.  A life time of integrity, a good conscience, honesty and trustworthyness.

if you want to get all deterministic and existential then -nothing- matters - there's nothing at the end of it other than your body matter going back into the Universe.

The one thing that does at least have some life, no matter how short, post death is your legacy.

What good does being "a good guy" (short form) give you? Peace of mind? More real friends? A sense of connecting with your fellow man on a true level of honesty?

And to flip the existential question somewhat given i assume capitalism and screwing people over is inherently linked with cash money : no one on their death bed thinks "i wish i'd earned more money"
O=X

headwalk

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 11:14:32 AM »
good band.

backed.

Bebpo

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 12:30:27 PM »
This is how evil lawyers are born, ladies and gentlemen.

 :lol

Don't worry, good is my nature and even if I wanted to I couldn't go against it.  I'm just doing a little mental arguing to feel better about all the opportunities I've lost from not being able to go against my nature and do the "wrong" thing. 


Real talk:  I was born to a good caring family (no divorce, everyone still gets along great) that was upper middle class and so I always felt even as a little kid that I got lucky and I shouldn't take it for granted.  That if I had it relatively "good", that it's in my power to do my best to help everyone else be better off as well.  I used to give part of my allowance to fireman's charities and stuff when I was in Jr. High School.  I always tried to help my friends out with chores and be there as emotional support for everyone I knew.  Not a whole lot has changed since then.  The nature/nurture of the environment I was raised in pretty much made it really hard for me to be a jerk and screw people over.  I mean even as a lawyer now, I won't take on cases if I don't feel it's the right thing to do.

And to flip the existential question somewhat given i assume capitalism and screwing people over is inherently linked with cash money : no one on their death bed thinks "i wish i'd earned more money"

But what about if it's not just money.  What about if in order to get their happiness (a romance, a family member saved, their rosebud, etc...) they would have had to do something really wrong that would screw someone over.  That's where it gets complicated.  Maybe those things are what would have made the person happy their whole life, but would they have been worth the cost of integrity in the end?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 12:33:19 PM by Bebpo »

Flannel Boy

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 01:14:50 PM »
The independent, coherent self that is inside my head is but an illusion, a narrative created by my brain out of a multiplicity of desires, processes, and values to give me a sense of power, a sense of control, and a sense of purpose. Internal consistency with a fiction is not that important.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Integrity
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 01:39:12 PM »
I'm sure there's a really good Xenosaga quote for this thread.
dog

Re: Integrity
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 02:11:50 PM »
What happened? You're being too vague.
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