ZimmerMAN is the hero we deserve

[Madrun Badrun]

Bullshit

If you are going to walk around and make judgement calls base on your own predetermined vision of people and what you suspect they have done that you take so far to instigate a confrontation that , absolutely regardless of what did or didn't happen, results in you shooting an innocent person dead than that is the utter height of "dangerous"

Top and bottom of this sorry mess : Zim acted on his prejudice , -something- happened that HE instigated and as a consequence an innocent teen is dead.

None of this happens if Zim doesn't act on his prejudice

bububu so confusing! grey areas! we werent really there so we dont know!

for real tho, all that is proven fact so to try and argue innocence is disingenuous and fucking sick

I don't think Dubya was arguing innocence, he was pointing out that there are alternative stories and hence guilt couldn't be proven.  And no racial profiling isn't justification for convicting on man slaughter or 2nd degree murder. 

[Mandark]

He's allowed to walk on streets and he's allowed to be an asshole.  Those things aren't dangerous and they aren't illegal.  If he physically attacked Martin first, he cannot use a weapon and claim self-defense.  But if on the contrary he was attacked by Martin, he could certainly do so.  Who attacked whom first is crucial to the case.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but this comment really sums up the, I dunno, mechanistic view of human behavior that I and a bunch of others find to be pretty alien and disconnected from real life.

For example, I can't imagine anyone having been around or involved in fights (or even shouting matches that get broken up before they get physical) expecting there to be a clear line between assailant and victim that determines sole responsibility for the violence.

Likewise, I can't see deliberately following someone around with a gun as a God-given right.  Like, I can see the calculus of Right to Guns + Freedom of Movement covering what Zimmerman was doing in the narrowest sense, but I've known a couple too many people who had to seek restraining orders or who should have to believe that stalking is a non-threatening pastime that's protected by the Constitution or some accounting of natural rights.

[Mandark]

Final verdict on Zimmerman's ethnicity:  Not guilty, so he's white.  If he had been a murderer, he'd be latino.

Since the One Drop Rule doesn't apply, we go by the My Kid/Your Kid rule parents have.  Like how Andy Murray is British when he's winning, Scottish when he's choking.

[radioheadrule83]

I would donate upwards of 500 dollars to the cause of seeing Zimmerman or a member of his family shot dead. I don't care if that's right or wrong or any of that shit, that's the only justice there can be for me now. Your laws around guns and murder are a fucking joke, your media is a joke. Feel so fucking sorry for Trayvon's family.

[MCD]

Come on now, radio.

[Himu]

I would donate upwards of 500 dollars to the cause of seeing Zimmerman or a member of his family shot dead.

if you're gonna do it, make sure they're not black

[Shadow Mod]

Why's it so hard for some people to realize and recognize that racism permeates our society? Jesus. The denial.

[Shaka Khan]

I would donate upwards of 500 dollars to the cause of seeing Zimmerman or a member of his family shot dead. I don't care if that's right or wrong or any of that shit, that's the only justice there can be for me now. Your laws around guns and murder are a fucking joke, your media is a joke. Feel so fucking sorry for Trayvon's family.

[Oblivion]

Why's it so hard for some people to realize and recognize that racism permeates our society? Jesus. The denial.

Then why do we have a black president, hmm?

[radioheadrule83]

Justifiable homicide or self defence is shooting unarmed teenagers now?

I'm sorry, your gun laws and your homicide and self defence law is a joke. This guy got off with murdering a kid because his defence and friends in the media painted the implausible story that an unarmed kid was threatening the life of an over zealous, MMA trained neighbourhood watchman. The only reasonable doubt created was through the defence and the media crafting a hooded ooga booga bogeyman in the place of an innocent, dead, child.

Zimmerman deserves death. He deserves to have a family member popped with the same reckless abandon.

The USA once again, can look to the outside world as the bonkers backwater of the civilised world that it is.

[Mandark]

First, you're proposing collective punishment.  Whatever Zimmerman "deserves," I think the perspective of his family member has to be taken into consideration when you're talking about, oh, fucking killing them.

Second, while the incident has highlighted a bunch of shit in America, I'm going to go ahead and roll my eyes at any Euro pretensions of moral superiority.  At least Martin's killer was prosecuted, which is more than I can say for Jean Charles de Menezes.

[radioheadrule83]

.. a guy who wouldn't be dead if the UK gov't weren't in steadfast support of attrocious US foreign policy.

Yes to be fair, suggesting his family members should die is perhaps a bit extreme, but I do honestly hope someone gives the kids family some proper justice. I'm out anyway, my ability to remain cold and calm about this non existent. The verdict is disgusting.

[DCharlieJP]

n't think Dubya was arguing innocence, he was pointing out that there are alternative stories and hence guilt couldn't be prove

okay - then lets take a step back and ignore the word "guilt" and use the word "responsible"

Due to whatever was going through his head , ignoring advice and his outburst about "always getting away" then , at least, Zim was responsible for starting the sequence of events that led to the shooting.

These were wholly avoidable and were down to out and out prejudgment of Tray. Zim had decided he was guilt of or related to recent robberies with absolute zero evidence to back up this beyond what seems like contempt.

Again - if we accept that we have two conflicting views of what happened - but ultimately the bad choices Zim made were to blame for what happened on that day. Be it murder , manslaughter or whatever - i find it pretty offensive to brush it off as "well, everyone is entitled to walk around being an arsehole because it's not dangerous" .... looks pretty fatal to me in some cases.

[Mandark]

suggesting his family members should die is perhaps a bit extreme

PERHAPS

[Shaka Khan]

Perhaps.

[DCharlieJP]

wait - i just saw the "animation" and the description of how it was put together .... is this some sort of joke?!

[Momo]

so this is a thing now eh

[Polari]

Under the law and the available evidence the jury had to find not guilty. Change the law if you want to prevent this from happening again.

On a side note, a lot of people seem to be focussing on the racial profiling aspect - that's not what Zimmerman was on trial for though.

Feel bad for the family. Tough one.

[Shadow Mod]

Amazing how people just define random groups as having some kind of authority over others in order to justify dumb shit. Neighborhood Watch as some kind of security that's allowed to interfere with individuals. For fucks sake US citizens sure love to bend over.

[Human Snorenado]

First, you're proposing collective punishment.  Whatever Zimmerman "deserves," I think the perspective of his family member has to be taken into consideration when you're talking about, oh, fucking killing them.

Second, while the incident has highlighted a bunch of shit in America, I'm going to go ahead and roll my eyes at any Euro pretensions of moral superiority.  At least Martin's killer was prosecuted, which is more than I can say for Jean Charles de Menezes.

Forget it, Mandark.  It's Nintendo fans.

[pickle]

There is no way this shit would fly in NZ.

[AdmiralViscen]

I still don't understand, even if Trayvon had bruised knuckles to indicate he was an aggressor, why he didn't have his own right to self defense from the armed man who was pursuing him and preventing him from "getting away."

[Shadow Mod]

I still don't understand, even if Trayvon had bruised knuckles to indicate he was an aggressor, why he didn't have his own right to self defense from the armed man who was pursuing him and preventing him from "getting away."

Because the law is written to protect assholes who wield firearms.

[Huff]

There was a point were TM had gotten away. The defense claim was that GZ was walking back to his car to leave and  TM restarted the conflicted. The prosecution couldn't prove otherwise, which is why the self defense part worked.

If that break didnt I don't see how he isn't charged with at least manslaughter

[DCharlieJP]

again - how believable is it that someone who ran away from someone would then go back and confront them? I mean ... that just seems a bit crazy.

Lets face it - i'm sure Zim wasn't shouting "young man, please stop so i may put to you some questions!"

[Shadow Mod]

again - how believable is it that someone who ran away from someone would then go back and confront them? I mean ... that just seems a bit crazy.

Lets face it - i'm sure Zim wasn't shouting "young man, please stop so i may put to you some questions!"

Fuck I was just posting about this too. Apparently stalking someone isn't threatening behavior. Shit's ridiculous.

[DCharlieJP]

If someone comes running towards me and i've no idea why -especially in the US- where random crazies carry guns then i'm sure as hell not going to go back and ask my chaser why they were pursuing me and i'm pretty sure a 14 year old is probably going to have even less inclination to go confront some crazy adult.


also - "At another point in the call, Zimmerman insisted to Serino that he wasn’t following Martin, saying, "I was just going in the same direction as he was.”" .... ... .. . . . . .

[Boogie]

I would donate upwards of 500 dollars to the cause of seeing Zimmerman or a member of his family shot dead. I don't care if that's right or wrong or any of that shit, that's the only justice there can be for me now. Your laws around guns and murder are a fucking joke, your media is a joke. Feel so fucking sorry for Trayvon's family.

Personal info reported to SOCA.  Wave at the CCTV cameras you pass during the day, they're watching you now.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

so how much longer til the GOP starts advocating a return to slavery?

What a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged thing to say. You're a real credit to your party.

[Eel O'Brian]

smh mexican peruvian kraut white people

[Eel O'Brian]

Also, wanting to kill Zimmerman or his family for some street justice is...pretty Zimmerman. Fucking punks. These assholes. They always get away.

[Eel O'Brian]

dp

[Positive Touch]

so how much longer til the GOP starts advocating a return to slavery?

What a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged thing to say. You're a real credit to your party.

thanks, friend!

[headwalk]

I would donate upwards of 500 dollars to the cause of seeing Zimmerman or a member of his family shot dead. I don't care if that's right or wrong or any of that shit, that's the only justice there can be for me now. Your laws around guns and murder are a fucking joke, your media is a joke. Feel so fucking sorry for Trayvon's family.

this trial has become an all consuming morality vortex, to gaze in to it is to become the worst person you can be.

[tiesto]

Even the more liberal people on my Facebook think that Martin had some guilt in it. I'm confused as fuck.

Now I haven't followed the trial as much as I probably should have, but Zimmerman definitely should not have walked. Did Martin allegedly "slam his head into the concrete" before or after Zimmerman stalked him? Would a lanky black kid be able to throw down a 200lb MMA guy?

[headwalk]

Even the more liberal people on my Facebook think that Martin had some guilt in it. I'm confused as fuck.

Now I haven't followed the trial as much as I probably should have, but Zimmerman definitely should not have walked. Did Martin allegedly "slam his head into the concrete" before or after Zimmerman stalked him? Would a lanky black kid be able to throw down a 200lb MMA guy?

the defence had a lot of witness testimony as to zimmerman being an unfit sack of shit with zero fighting skills: "i didn't even want to let him shadow box for fear the shadow would win".

not something i'd find terribly hard to believe.

[Positive Touch]

and yet he was fighting a teen that was like 50 lbs lighter than him

also the prosecution had tons of evidence that zimmerman was a dirtbag racist who spent a shitload of time harrassing and stalking black dudes, and yet they werent allowed to talk about "racial profiling" in court

[brob]

rofl not even a manslaughter charge?

wild west rules

[DCharlieJP]

the defence had a lot of witness testimony as to zimmerman being an unfit sack of shit with zero fighting skills: "i didn't even want to let him shadow box for fear the shadow would win".

a lot of this could easily have been stage managed too.

Zimmerman apparently has a history of violence - yet when it comes to court everyone has a wise crack about how much of a pussy he is? Basically all that's come out in the run up to this is lots of innuendo about Tray and a lot of "he's just a guy, you know... " and "if you were frightened by a black man you'd do the same!" bollox about zim. But anyways... Let's role with this all being true - that all the stuff about him being super intelligent and a great student is all true, but the bits which might implicate him in anyway turn out to be false....

So... if it's true he couldn't fight despite being a doorman, despite being a security guard, despite being in fights with law officers, despite training MMA then he's even MORE negligent and even more at fault for what happened : no ability to look after himself, potentially too quick to draw his gun, but was acting as an aggressor and self appointed neighbourhood watch master....

I dunno why i'm typing at this point - everyone has an opinion on this but the whole trial just stinks.

Also - yeah, given the 50lbs difference and given that the on-the-ground struggle lasted for quite a sustained period and, according to Dat Animation , Tray was able to drag Zim around whilst on top of him to three separate locations.

Also - what sort of MMA club wouldn't be covering ground technique?

[headwalk]

the defence had a lot of witness testimony as to zimmerman being an unfit sack of shit with zero fighting skills: "i didn't even want to let him shadow box for fear the shadow would win".

a lot of this could easily have been stage managed too.

Zimmerman apparently has a history of violence - yet when it comes to court everyone has a wise crack about how much of a pussy he is? Basically all that's come out in the run up to this is lots of innuendo about Tray and a lot of "he's just a guy, you know... " and "if you were frightened by a black man you'd do the same!" bollox. But anyways... Let's role with this all being true - that all the stuff about him being super intelligent and a great student is all true, but the bits which might implicate him in anyway turn out to be false....

So... if it's true he couldn't fight despite being a doorman, despite being a security guard, despite being in fights with law officers, despite training MMA then he's even MORE negligent and even more at fault for what happened : no ability to look after himself, potentially too quick to draw his gun, but was acting as an aggressor and self appointed neighbourhood watch master....

I dunno why i'm typing at this point - everyone has an opinion on this but the whole trial just stinks.

Also - yeah, given the 50lbs difference and given that the on-the-ground struggle lasted for quite a sustained period and, according to Dat Animation , Tray was able to drag Zim around whilst on top of him to three separate locations.

Also - what sort of MMA club wouldn't be covering ground technique?

what i mean is, when i hear that testimony, i equate it to how i imagine 90% of people in tapout gear handling themselves in a real fight.

knocked down in one punch then spending the next 45 seconds screaming as they fumble for their firearm sounds right on the money.

[StealthFan]

Can't flim flam the Zimm Man.

[DCharlieJP]

what i mean is, when i hear that testimony, i equate it to how i imagine 90% of people in tapout gear handling themselves in a real fight.

knocked down in one punch then spending the next 45 seconds screaming as they fumble for their firearm sounds right on the money.

well, it's true that the vast majority of fights end up on the floor and hence why MMA/Ju Jitsu tends to be heavily teach ground technique.

Anyways, this goes back to the point above : if this is true then this is why Zim is even more responsible - he over estimated his ability to the extent that a 17 year old kid was apparently able to walk up to him, ask him some questions about being followed, then strike him and Zim be all over the place... this , again, AFTER Zim was initiating a confrontation.

I'd have also thought it pretty difficult to put down a person of Zim's build and weight especially with that sort of weight difference.

[Great Rumbler]

I’m a criminal defense lawyer in Wisconsin, but I’ll tell you my reaction to the Zimmerman verdict today. I’ve had friends in Florida asking for my take. I haven’t watched the trial very closely (it seems like an ordinary criminal case to me in many respects). But I was astounded that the defense would put on a “self-defense” argument without the defendant testifying. In most civilized jurisdictions, the burden is on the defense to prove, at least more likely than not, that the law breaking was done for reasons of self-defense. I couldn’t figure out how they could do this without the defendant’s testimony.

I got curious and read the jury instructions Friday night and, I was wrong. In Florida, if self-defense is even suggested, it’s the states obligation to prove it’s absence beyond a reasonable doubt(!). That’s crazy. But ‘not guilty’ was certainly a reasonable result in this case. As I told a friend in Tampa today though, if you’re ever in a heated argument with anyone, and you’re pretty sure there aren’t any witnesses, it’s always best to kill the other person. They can’t testify, you don’t have to testify, no one else has any idea what happened; how can the state ever prove beyond a doubt is wasn’t self-defense? Holy crap! What kind of system is that?

Bonus:

"I want to know if it's true, and I don't know if it's true, that Trayvon Martin was looking to procure firearms, or growing marijuana, or looking to make lean," [Robert Zimmerman] told Piers Morgan and Don Lemon.

[DCharlieJP]

I think the media coaches forgot to tell Zimmerman's brother that he doesn't need to demonize Trayvon now his brother is free.... or is this for the Civil case that we will have to endure stupid mud slinging from the Zimmerman's camp?

[Great Rumbler]

Victim-blaming! Always good for a laugh! See: rapes.

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/07/14/foxs-geraldo-rivera-you-dress-like-a-thug-peopl/194866

[Himu]

Jesus at that post, Rumbler.

[Atramental]

Fuck Geraldo.

[Himu]

I'm talking about the one with the tpm quote and the quote from Zim's brother.

[Yeti]

they're both nauseating

[Himu]

Sure but the Geraldo quote is a year old. I've been desensitized!

[Oblivion]

That awkward moment when George Zimmerman's brother says the family fears vigilantes who might try to take the law into their own hands.

[Atramental]

I'm talking about the one with the tpm quote and the quote from Zim's brother.

Oh yeah.

Fuck him, as well.

[nudemacusers]

black men need to start shopping at mens wearhouse. i for one would feel safer.

[Human Snorenado]

black men need to start shopping at mens wearhouse. i for one would feel safer.

Not worth the risk of getting shot on the way 

[Madrun Badrun]

Well it's their own damn fault for not shopping amazon. 

[Atramental]

/pol/ is (still) on fire.

[naff]

I got curious and read the jury instructions Friday night and, I was wrong. In Florida, if self-defense is even suggested, it’s the states obligation to prove it’s absence beyond a reasonable doubt(!). That’s crazy. But ‘not guilty’ was certainly a reasonable result in this case. As I told a friend in Tampa today though, if you’re ever in a heated argument with anyone, and you’re pretty sure there aren’t any witnesses, it’s always best to kill the other person. They can’t testify, you don’t have to testify, no one else has any idea what happened; how can the state ever prove beyond a doubt is wasn’t self-defense? Holy crap! What kind of system is that?

 

[Cerveza mas fina]

So its still self defence if you choose to confront someone?

Thats so fucking American.

Like pre-emptive strike.

[Verdigris Murder]

Yea when the power of the gov is turned against an ethnic group.
Bad thing Happen.
Ask Obama how he suppressed the Tea Party for example.
Prob putting Obama in line for another European Nobel Peace Prize.

[Squiddy]

maybe youths shouldn't be waering hoodies?
just dress nicely in like dress shirts and silken pantalons.