The brown/black folk thread #DSF

[Kara]

An abstraction isn't a metaphor. It often treads close to / steps over into straw man.

I find it a problematic abstraction for the reasons you described and others I don't feel it's relevant for me to share, but I didn't feel it was my place to label it as such itt.

Great post (point of disagreement aside).

[Rufus]

If you go by the modern definition of 'defend' he very well might be.

[Himu]

An abstraction isn't a metaphor. It often treads close to / steps over into straw man.

I find it a problematic abstraction for the reasons you described and others I don't feel it's relevant for me to share, but I didn't feel it was my place to label it as such itt.

Great post (point of disagreement aside).

It becomes a problem when people cite Malcolm's legacy at its most reductionist. But after all, in this case, we are talking about comic books and comic books need super villains. But Malcolm X is not a villain, hence the problem.

[Phoenix Dark]

The thing I don't understand is...why does she give a fuck. What harm is being done to her? Feminine gay dudes don't exclusively talk to black women like that...they talk to everyone like that.

There are major hurdles between the communities, although I feel like most of them are propagated by black people. Specifically the general resentment of gay people, whether it's born from religious sentiment or hyper masculinity. Or this ridiculous idea about culture appropriation. Gay people referencing the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s in no way "steals" or lessons that movement.

And on another note...can we stop listing various shit some black people do as "black culture?" Twerking isn't "black culture," it's an urban dance that some black people do. You would never hear someone argue racketeering is Italian culture - it's something a certain group of Italians, ie mobsters, participation in. I can't take her argument seriously do to this shit.

If you're tired of gay white dudes allegedly trolling you, go hang out with someone else. Go hang out with black guys or something...assuming you can find one.
(Image removed from quote.)

To me the article read like it was more in opposition to gay white men and others pulling the whole "I'm a strong black woman" thing as though black women's identity is a costume you can throw on whenever you're feeling sad.  Saying such racist things is harmful to black women in a lot of ways.  The CNN piece focused a lot more on cultural appropriation, which I personally don't feel as strongly about.  The line between participation and appropriation seems razor thin.  Black people come up with a lot of cool shit, so it's understandable that others would also like to enjoy our stuff.   

I don't really have a counter to the bolded.  I'm reluctant to call racketeering a part of Italian culture only because viewing any kind of criminal activity as one of a group's defining characteristics is obviously pretty racist  (Italian is more of a nationality than a race, but you get what I mean).

I'm curious as to why you're so resistant to accepting twerking as part of black culture though.  Your comparison to racketeering above as well as previous comments on GAF tell me that you really don't like that idea.  I'll concede that "it's an urban dance that some black people do" isn't strong criteria for making it a part of black culture, but let's just say for the sake of argument that this is a good reason.  Is twerking such a negative thing to be associated with?  Is it something to be ashamed of?  What about sagging pants or AAVE?  Those fall under the same category of "things associated with blackness that some black people wish weren't."

I'm not sure being sassy or acting like a "queen" is exclusive or owned by black women. A lot of the imitation that goes on seems to focus on diva behavior, and I'm not sure that's owned by anyone. Madonna was quite a diva in the 80s for instance. As was Grace Jones.

When I think of "black culture" I think of a variety of things, and dancing is one of those things. What I don't think of is twerking, which to me is just a stripper dance that has grown beyond its original southern origins. When someone twerks I don't automatically think of black people, nor do I get the argument that people are mad at Miley for "stealing" it. I want to ask these people "why the fuck do you care?" It's an urban dance, sure I get that. I'm just baffled at the idea that it is somehow "black culture" or something we need to prevent white people from doing.

Personally I don't dislike twerking. I think it's tacky, but it doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is the idea that one can experience black culture by going to a black strip club and seeing black women twerk. I would like to believe "black culture" is more than that, and considering I've been black all my life and twerking never played a role or had any influence on me...I can't help but shake my head. If you want to discuss how dancing, religion, soul food, masculinity, spoken word, etc are a part of the culture fine, I'm all for it.

[Kara]

Reductionist and utterly decoupled from the period from which it arose (cf. your great post about the times in which Malcolm X was a leader on the previous page). Anti-mutant stuff can get pretty bad in X-Men, but its presence in the universe is hardly used to hold up a mirror to white America's governance and extrajudicial violence.

Instead of holding up a mirror, they muddy up the Holocaust instead. As if one problematic foray wasn't enough for this character. (I think Magneto even says "never again" in X3?)

[Himu]

the whole holocaust thing in x-men...I just never saw that magneto being a holocaust survivor improved his character and severely limits him and makes the story more complicated than it should be.

[Phoenix Dark]

I had th first season of the X-Men cartoon on VHS as a kid and it includes a long interview with Stan and Jim Lee among other important comic figures. Stann specifically said he thought of Magneto as a Malcolm X type, and MLK as Xavier. I underwood the comparison as a kid and still do, with respect to Magneto's focus on separation from mankind, focus on superiority, etc. I have no problem with it nor so I feel it's a 1:1 comparison.

And now some people view the X-Men through the lense of homosexuality. It's just how people relate to certain things.

[Positive Touch]

Malcolm X is the violent, angry white-hater, while MLK is the hand-holding, give-peace-a-chance type. I've heard countless older white people describe them as such. I know it's inaccurate, but it was clearly what they were going for magneto and prof x.

[Himu]

Another big problem I have is that no one talks about Malcolm X post-hajj. Like him rejecting NOI never happened. Also, did Malcolm really have a focus on superiority?  I didn't think so, but that's my interpretation. I've always interpreted it as black pride more than superiority.

[Kara]

the whole holocaust thing in x-men...I just never saw that magneto being a holocaust survivor improved his character and severely limits him and makes the story more complicated than it should be.

And provides a lot of opportunities to really fuck up.

e.g. I think that Magneto disfiguring "never again" is one thing, and depending on your opinion of the Internet's Favorite Country possibly prescient, but when you couple it with the fact that he's a racist (speciesist?) on top of that it just gets . At least Asteroid M wasn't someone else's land I guess.

e: There's also the kind of "get over it" undercurrent to the First Class movies which didn't really sit right with me, despite Fassie's pain on screen.

[Himu]

How come people are fine with Jewish people having their own country but not with Black Americans separating ourselves from American society and making our own country? That was the crux of Malcolm's separatist argument. Is there something I'm missing?

[Kara]

I know it's not exactly what you mean, but there is (was) Liberia.

[benjipwns]

Liberia has one fucked up history. Reading the early history of it and then skipping ahead a hundred years is like some Mirror Universe shit.

I never understood why so much of the culture adopted the standard tribalism of Africa so quickly (while keeping all the bad parts of 19th century American politics) but in some weird insane manner involving their slave pasts and American ties and blah blah. They'd probably think Reverend Wright is a cac now, Obama definitely would be one.

Basically what I'm saying is that there aren't enough streets in Liberia to cross when I see anyone walking towards me.

[Kara]

Not to make light of one-party rule, or its unfortunate prevalence in African history, but you've got to admit it's pretty out there to have had a country with one-party rule and that one party was a Whig party.

[benjipwns]

Not just any Whig party, the TRUE Whig Party.

[Mandark]

How come people are fine with Jewish people having their own country but not with Black Americans separating ourselves from American society and making our own country? That was the crux of Malcolm's separatist argument. Is there something I'm missing?

Lots of people aren't and weren't fine with it, particularly the people who were dispossessed and disenfranchised by the creation of Israel.  Many Americans are supportive because the US didn't have to give up anything, and the calls for a Jewish state didn't directly challenge the legitimacy of (white) American government or society.  It's a lot easier to be sympathetic to ethnic nationalism when you're carving up someone else's nation.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Liberia is some crazy alternative history fanfic that somehow crossed over into actual history

edit: I'm pretty sure my posting this was a cactivity

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/separate-and-unequal/

Jesus the emotional white dude "These children.  They are why we do this".  He totally was thinking "These *white* children"

"It's about bringing community back" *fondly remembers segregated times.

 

[Himu]

How come people are fine with Jewish people having their own country but not with Black Americans separating ourselves from American society and making our own country? That was the crux of Malcolm's separatist argument. Is there something I'm missing?

Lots of people aren't and weren't fine with it, particularly the people who were dispossessed and disenfranchised by the creation of Israel.  Many Americans are supportive because the US didn't have to give up anything, and the calls for a Jewish state didn't directly challenge the legitimacy of (white) American government or society.  It's a lot easier to be sympathetic to ethnic nationalism when you're carving up someone else's nation.

I definitely didn't mean to imply that everyone is fine with the existence of Israel, because I'm not one of them. I just meant that, domestically, in the US, there seems to be plenty of support for Israel. But Malcolm's idea was vilified despite hundreds of years of slavery and lack of rights.

To be honest, though. We're getting besides the point and it was a rhetorical question anyways, because I already know the answer.

[Steve Contra]

Israel also supports a good many Americans particular eschatology, a black state does not.

[Kara]

Immanentize the eschaton with your foreign policy brehs.

[Phoenix Dark]

How come people are fine with Jewish people having their own country

[Phoenix Dark]

whole thing is interesting but skip to around 40sec for some self hating

I don't understand how someone raised by a black woman can hate on them so casually; sure maybe your mom was a piece of shit, but if she wasn't and you respect her...how can you make broad statements about black women being disgusting, unworthy, etc? It's self hate.

Imagine being a dark black chick hearing this shit from kindergarten to adulthood, and how it could easily warp your perspective of your self worth; I can't imagine dealing with that shit nonstop. A few weeks ago I was buying groceries and ran into a family friend; 50 something year old black lady.

Her: I heard you're dating Such-and-Such's daughter
Me: We're not dating, we're just friends
Her: Close friends from what I've heard
Me: I guess
Her: I've never seen her but I know she's beautiful. She got good hair like her dad?

For reference, her dad is mixed and rocks his hair like Rick Fox. I didn't know what to say...on one hand I wanted to just avoid further conversation, on the other I'm so tired of the "good hair" bullshit I often want to combat it. So I kinda just said "I don't know what that means" to which she replied "straight hair."


This chick was wearing a ridiculous weave. I'd imagine she's probably bald or balding due to decades of weaves and bad chemicals. Shit is just pathetic to me. Natural hair styles are awesome, I don't see why more black women aren't rocking them. Sure it takes more time/effort but even weaves take a lot of time and effort apparently. My ladyfriend just has a big curly hair style similar to this but shorter. Actually many black women can do that (or something similar) with their hair and natural products. And if not there are a host of great hair styles available to do.

The casual way some black people shit on their own hair is just repulsive to me. And I hear it all the time since I have natural waves, which constantly causes annoying conversations or comments.

[Squiddy]

The obsession with straight hair (or aversion to curly/wavey hair) feels like leftover societal conditioning back when racism was way more acceptable, yet I keep hearing about it every now and then on forums.

People are so fucked up

[Himu]

Again, natural hairstyles have absolutely taken over, PD. Except with old folk. They still do that relaxer/weave shit because that's all they know.

And I thought we got past that in the 60's and 70's Squiddy with the black power/grow a fro movement. But then again maybe it was a fad. Everything the boomers did was a fad anyways. It certainly wasn't a fad for the men, because no black man conks today. Black men get the most boring hair cuts though so it even out.

[Phoenix Dark]

Nah black people never got over it, and it seems even worse now as "light skin v dark skin" is bigger than before, at least for black women. I don't think it matters for dudes. There was always a dark skinned dude winning for us out chea, from Jordan to Wesley Snipes to Idris Elba today. Dark chicks haven't really had that since Lupita guess...

Himu: I guess Houston is different. When I was in Texas I saw a lot of black women with natural hair styles, whereas here there are a lot of weaves or straightened hair.

[Himu]

I just watched that yt and that nicca old. Of course he hating.

[Himu]

Nah black people never got over it, and it seems even worse now as "light skin v dark skin" is bigger than before, at least for black women. I don't think it matters for dudes. There was always a dark skinned dude winning for us out chea, from Jordan to Wesley Snipes to Idris Elba today. Dark chicks haven't really had that since Lupita guess...

Himu: I guess Houston is different. When I was in Texas I saw a lot of black women with natural hair styles, whereas here there are a lot of weaves or straightened hair.

When I went to Atlanta it was the same thing. If you're talking about Detroit, do you think it's a socio-economical thing? Because I mostly know middle class blacks or hang in places where middle class blacks go. And Detroit has some of the harshest conditions in the country. If you're talking about Ann Arbor, I don't know what to say.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm talking about Ypsilanti, which is like 10 minutes away from Ann Arbor. Lots of weaves, especially amongst younger and older women. The women in the middle, say 28-35, often have natural hair styles though. I rarely see a black women with a big curly hairdo outside of my ladyfriend.

[Himu]

One of my least favorite blacktivity is some older black person telling my afro is not "professional".



The Daily Show had an amazing segment on this the other day. They fucking killed it, I was rooting at my tv, got me all talking loud and making me sound like Black Stereotype #1 but it was worth it.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/p3pawq/operation-black-hair

[Himu]

I'm talking about Ypsilanti, which is like 10 minutes away from Ann Arbor. Lots of weaves, especially amongst younger and older women. The women in the middle, say 28-35, often have natural hair styles though. I rarely see a black women with a big curly hairdo outside of my ladyfriend.

You...fucking...dick.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm talking about Ypsilanti, which is like 10 minutes away from Ann Arbor. Lots of weaves, especially amongst younger and older women. The women in the middle, say 28-35, often have natural hair styles though. I rarely see a black women with a big curly hairdo outside of my ladyfriend.

You...fucking...dick.

(Image removed from quote.)

27

[Himu]

 

Don't test me.

[Himu]

This is my fave yt channel.

[nudemacusers]

i understand your angst exodust but light skinned arab girls

[Madrun Badrun]

watching these now.  Pretty good.  The Yale history courses are great.

[Joe Molotov]

The Daily Show had an amazing segment on this the other day. They fucking killed it, I was rooting at my tv, got me all talking loud and making me sound like Black Stereotype #1 but it was worth it.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/p3pawq/operation-black-hair

The URL gives it away.

[Himu]

[benjipwns]

Sokath, his eyes uncovered!

[Phoenix Dark]

TYRONE NIGGUMS CONFRONTS GMS

[Phoenix Dark]

i'm done


I've seen it all folks

[Kara]

Well I just put this computer on yet another surveillance list, thanks Esch.

[Himu]

I believe that the so-called blacks(African American slaves), native Americans, and Latinos with Mayan decent make up the TWELVE LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL. The people over there in Israel ARE NOT THE REAL "JEWS" but are converts to Judaism who's lineage go back to the Khazars aka the "EDOMITES". All so-called white people who's lineage go back to the biblical Edomites are the Damn "DEVIL"!!! Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the BLASPHEMY of them which say they are Jews, and ARE NOT, but are the synagogue of "SATAN". The solid purpose of this blog is to wake up the REAL "JEWS"(Israelites) in time for the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN which will begin after WORLD WAR III. Yahawashi(Jesus) will gather his Elect of Israel from the four corners of the earth and save them from the Nuclear Destruction and establish a new Kingdom on earth with KING DAVID that will last for Ages. Ahman. And all of the other nations that survive WORLD WAR III will be slaves in the Kingdom of Israel!!!(not just you Damn Edomites)

[Kara]

As if ESAU's AmeriKKKan government is going to do anything to you, Khazar (Image removed from quote.)

Hey man, I only work in the mail room at Elders of Zion HQ.

[Joe Molotov]

OH YES! Even the proud ass white man who is the GOD DAMN devil that the Bible speaks of.

[Himu]

What if I don't want slaves because wanting slaves is stupid and barbaric? What do you think about that Yahawashi - so-called "Jesus"?

[Kara]

Since black antisemitic conspiracy theory lags behind mainstream antisemitism ~70 years, I wonder how this lot will handle Fansadox's catalog when they discover it in... 2084?

(Don't web search Fansadox BTW.)

[Himu]

Fuck the Bible, how bout that Yahawashi?!

[Himu]

Pediphilia

[toku]

Man

[Phoenix Dark]

Seems like the only unifying belief amongst multiple black idealogies is the hatred of black women.

[Himu]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfnxgl_the-destruction-of-the-so-called-blackman_news




















     


This so-called dude got a 14 minute so-called video of this so-called theory about so-called black men because emasculated.

[toku]

Seems like the only unifying belief amongst multiple black idealogies is the hatred of black women.

[Himu]

Get that pedicure girl







This dude is a psychopath. Some of the images on his site are shockingly violent and he THIRSTS for it.

[Himu]

what i wanna know is how come jesus got a japanese name now

[Himu]

man black folk have the best conspiracy theories

[Kara]

what i wanna know is how come jesus got a japanese name now

Just a guess, but I think the i at the end is making... whatever noun that's meant to be an adjective.

[Himu]

do what you like

[Himu]

What's your first name?

[Himu]

I thought it was pronounced Kah-vee. I was sorta close?