AMD ft. DICE - Mantle

[Eschaton]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-could-amd-mantle-revolutionise-pc-gaming

http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-to-optimize-pc-gpu-performance.html

 At AMD's GPU14 Tech Day event in Hawaii, alongside the brand new Radeon R9 290X GPU, the company has also unveiled a new development model called 'Mantle'. As a combination of both API specifications and GPU drivers, Mantle will allow developers to fully unlock the graphics potential of the GCN architecture of the new (and likely the previous) Radeon series, through low-level high-performance drivers.

Battlefield 4 will be the first title to use Mantle, with the technology coming through a free update in December. Mantle brings greater control of the GPU and CPU to game developers, especially in the memory department, which will allow games to harness the full potential of graphics cards. This model will be more similar to what is found on consoles, where developers have huge control over what hardware they use in their games.

While the technology is still in early stages, EA says it will allow PC game developers to harness even more graphics power than ever before. Where possible, Mantle will be used instead of DirectX 11 on compatible AMD hardware, although it's still compatible with other rendering APIs. AMD claims Mantle enables nine times more draw calls per second than other APIs, which is a huge increase in performance.

We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs. It should also make cross-development between PC and console games a lot easier, and also more incredible for those with a high-performance AMD GPU.

More information on Mantle will be available at the AMD Developer Summit in November.










:nvidiacry

[Eel O'Brian]

What does this mean in non-nerd terms

[Eel O'Brian]

Okay, thanks

[Sho Nuff]

Give me real performance numbers or this is just marketing bullshit

[Eel O'Brian]

Yeah, I put a 7850 in the PC I built for a friend, he seems to like it okay but has some weird issues with older games.

[Sho Nuff]

I seriously wonder if they would bother to make a Linux version

[Stoney Mason]

I've never owned an nvidia card that wasn't an integrated card in my laptop or something. For some weird reason I've always been attached to AMD video cards.

[Brehvolution]

 I was looking to upgrade my 6850 to a 7900 series, but I'll wait til the 290s come out instead. It will cozy up to my 8 core FX 8350.

[Sho Nuff]

Oh shit, if Carmack's down, then it's legit

[Sho Nuff]

Oh shit, if Carmack's down, then it's legit

I can never tell if youre being sarcastic or not .

I think that if mantle can deliver on their promises, it might be the go to. Smaller devs without all that abstraction layer stuff will probably stick with OpenGL because of mobile popularity(). The only one i see maybe being thrown in the bushes is DirectX

:mscry

No sarcasm at all. Carmack is the first one to call bullshit on anything.

Just hope this shit works fine on nVidia too

[MCD]

You guys want console performance now?

[Joe Molotov]

(Image removed from quote.)


, I dont think MS and Sony consider Steambox a threat. Working with Mantle just makes sense for them, especially since they have AMD GPUs

I called it. Consoletards are shook.

[Phoenix Dark]

Console like graphics on PC? Why?

or am I missing something

[Rufus]

Console-like access to the GPU/memory, i.e. more direct control, i.e. better performance.

[Joe Molotov]

Yeah, one of Carmack's big things that he always talks about during his Quakecon keynotes is how when you code a game for the PC, you have to go through layers and layers of drivers and crap before you can get to the hardware, whereas with consoles you get more direct access to the hardware.

Coding to the metal, as the kids say.

[Himu]

AMD

[Rufus]

For some weird reason I've always been attached to AMD video cards.

Same. My first GPU was an Ati Rage 128 or whatever it was called. I still have it in a box with some other PC parts. I kinda like supporting the underdog and their prices suit my dirt person self more.

[D3RANG3D]

AMD

Why the hate? Dudes have cornered the consoles and are making power moves, and ones like Mantle can be construed as being a potentially big boost to the consumer. You can definitely argue (as Sho Nuff has intimated here) that this is something that could and probably will fragment PC gaming somewhat because Nvidia will never adopt this API, despite it being open. It is optimized for AMD's architecture and I don't see Nvidia taking the performance hit in benchmarks laying down or somehow adopting AMD's GCN architecture.

basically

They can corner the console market all they want, that doesn't change the fact that their drivers have been historically shit, so this gives me a reason to be skeptical about how good this will be, and the fragmentation is going to be shit for PC gamers while AMD might "win"  but we lose.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fuck yeah I'm mad!

[close]

[Brehvolution]

THe ATI driver complaints came mostly before they were bought by AMD, which is now years ago.  I wouldn't put any stock in it anymore. AMD now has a distinct advantage that Intel and nVidia doesn't have.

[Himu]

AMD

Why the hate? Dudes have cornered the consoles and are making power moves, and ones like Mantle can be construed as being a potentially big boost to the consumer. You can definitely argue (as Sho Nuff has intimated here) that this is something that could and probably will fragment PC gaming somewhat because Nvidia will never adopt this API, despite it being open. It is optimized for AMD's architecture and I don't see Nvidia taking the performance hit in benchmarks laying down or somehow adopting AMD's GCN architecture.

basically

Don't believe I care about this news. I only support Nvidia and Intel. I don't care about AMD.

[headwalk]

there's an honesty to the PC gaming etiquette of building a belching dragster to outrun those neatly composed little electric cars. i'm not sure how i feel about the idea of an electric dragster.

fuck your low level instruction set, i got a tank of 99% nitromethane back here and i'm ready to die.

[D3RANG3D]

THe ATI driver complaints came mostly before they were bought by AMD, which is now years ago.  I wouldn't put any stock in it anymore. AMD now has a distinct advantage that Intel and nVidia doesn't have.

Maybe they do over Nvidia, I doubt it... I admit I have always had problems with their cards due to shitty drivers but their CPU's are total netbook quality.

[Smooth Groove]

nothing but hype for a company that's still way behind in the high-end performance category

Like others have already mentioned, ATI is just not as reliable as Nvidia at provinding smooth, glitch-free gaming, especially with older games

I gave ATI a try about 1-2 yrs ago with two of their fastest GPUs in crossfire and they caused way more headaches than Nvidia ever did

Benchmarks all ran well but there were plenty of stuttering and little glitches during actual gaming

After 3 months, I just said F it, sold the cards at a loss and went back to Nvidia

The 580s and 680s have offered far better experiences than the many ATI cards which I've tried



It turned out that ATI was just making sure that the benches ran well while not doing much to improve real gaming performance.  ATI cards, even the newer ones, from the last generation have had much more severe problems with frame drops than Nvidia. 

Ever since tech sites caught on and modify their testing methods, Nvidia has been trouncing ATI

If budget isn't an issue, there really is no reason to go ATI instead of Nvidia

[Smooth Groove]

AMD

Why the hate? Dudes have cornered the consoles and are making power moves, and ones like Mantle can be construed as being a potentially big boost to the consumer. You can definitely argue (as Sho Nuff has intimated here) that this is something that could and probably will fragment PC gaming somewhat because Nvidia will never adopt this API, despite it being open. It is optimized for AMD's architecture and I don't see Nvidia taking the performance hit in benchmarks laying down or somehow adopting AMD's GCN architecture.

basically

Don't believe I care about this news. I only support Nvidia and Intel. I don't care about AMD.

AMD "cornered" the console market cuz AMD is cheaper not cuz AMD is smarter and better than its competitors

AMD is a proven manufacturer of budget hardware

Good for them.  It's just not what I want out of PC gaming

[mjemirzian]

I'll wait for the benchmarks.

[Sho Nuff]

No sarcasm at all. Carmack is the first one to call bullshit on anything.

Just hope this shit works fine on nVidia too

What API's do y'all work on? anyone at work talking about this?

Direct X i guess?

We are total hands off. We are on Unity which will do D3D and/or OpenGL. We have zero hot shit graphics coders on board and our game is pretty simple so this won't apply to us.

[Sho Nuff]

Glide was fucking awesome back in the day, but that was because 3Dfx was king shit and the only game in town. Nowadays anyone who tries to do proprietary shit is just pissing in the wind unless it's cross platform.

Remember how well TressFX did on nvidia GPUs?

[naff]

Glide was so hot. Showing off dat voodoo chipset with Mechwarrior 2, Quake 2 and Diablo 2

[benjipwns]

AMD creating AMD64 first didn't stop Intel from adopting it with basically only some minor differences. I'd have to imagine NVIDIA wouldn't just ignore it especially if EA is behind it. AMD cards might run the newest versions slightly better or something for a couple months.

In any case I'd assume it gets more support than PhysX does.

[Joe Molotov]

In 1000 years when our civilization has been destroyed, I hope this Anandtech review of the Voodoo 5 5500 where they test Unreal Tournament using Glide still survives.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/580/12

[fizzel]

The Wicked3D Open GL drivers were infinitely better than glide on my voodoo3.

[Smooth Groove]

Glide 3D was amazing for its time

It made N64/PSX look prehistoric especially once people got Mario 64 running on 3dfx with pristine image quality and much smoother framerate

[headwalk]

isn't this drinky's wheelhouse?

get the lead out.

[Cerveza mas fina]

In 1000 years when our civilization has been destroyed, I hope this Anandtech review of the Voodoo 5 5500 where they test Unreal Tournament using Glide still survives.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/580/12

Could you sum up whats so wrong with this?

[Joe Molotov]

In 1000 years when our civilization has been destroyed, I hope this Anandtech review of the Voodoo 5 5500 where they test Unreal Tournament using Glide still survives.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/580/12

Could you sum up whats so wrong with this?

Nvidia killed 3Dfx and Glide, that's what's wrong. And Epic makes console games now.

[Rufus]

Anandtech: AMD's Mantle PC API is the same as the Xbox One low level API (confirmed by AMD)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686645

[Joe Molotov]

In before "Digital Foundry is MS mouthpiece!"

Damn, wrong tab, I thought I was on GAF. Mods, delete pls.

[Diunx]

So is this like some shit I have to install instead of direct x?