Author Topic: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan  (Read 3301 times)

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MCD

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Joe Molotov

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 07:40:50 PM »
Thanks, Obama!
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Steve Contra

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 07:53:20 PM »
#defundobamacare #fundyakuza #tcot
vin

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 08:00:28 PM »
Another victim of the dead of america.
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mjemirzian

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 01:00:41 PM »
Valkyria Chronicles pages also taken down.

Not a good sign for anyone who enjoyed JP developed games for their gameplay.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 01:11:23 PM by mjemirzian »

Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 01:03:15 PM »
Sad, but I'm apathetic since I contributed to this by not supporting 3 and 4. Oh well, it is what it is.
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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 01:06:32 PM »
Sad, but I'm apathetic since I contributed to this by not supporting 3 and 4. Oh well, it is what it is.

They cut content from 3.  Fuck 'em. 
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2013, 01:08:07 PM »
That and the fact it was another game in Kamurocho is why I did not buy Yakuza 3. In hindsight it was petty, but we all make mistakes. However, I won't convince myself that I alone could save Yakuza. If the first and second games weren't successful, there was no way other games would be.
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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 01:35:19 PM »
I'm sick of the whining at GAF. The games don't sell well here and they're expensive to localize. It's not like some fansub anime that can be turned out in a day. Sega localized 5 games and they continued to sell worse and worse.

I'm probably part of the problem, though, since I've been importing the RGG series since Kenzan came out.
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Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »
You aren't part of the problem if you don't need to experience it in English. :)
IYKYK

Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 01:40:44 PM »
I know we'll never get it, but I'd love to see how much it costs to localize one of the games and then compare that to total copies sold/profits.

I don't enjoy the games no longer coming here, but I really wish the people complaining would actually listen to logical reasons why they're not.
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brob

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2013, 01:51:00 PM »
the last game in the series sold, what, 10k? 10 000+2 doesn't suddenly make this shit profitable for sega. You can't vote with your wallet from a position of no influence.

The only way I see these games getting play outside of Japan is if someone internally at Sega fights for it (for instance putting english subtitles in the japanese release), or if some utopian deal is set up with Atlus' US branch.

how are your japanese studies coming along, himu?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 01:59:52 PM by Brobzoid »

Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2013, 02:09:49 PM »
the last game in the series sold, what, 10k? 10 000+2 doesn't suddenly make this shit profitable for sega. You can't vote with your wallet from a position of no influence.

The only way I see these games getting play outside of Japan is if someone internally at Sega fights for it (for instance putting english subtitles in the japanese release), or if some utopian deal is set up with Atlus' US branch.

You'd also have to translate all the menus.
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brob

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2013, 02:22:59 PM »
well yes. In this fantasy example of mine all the text in the game would be available in english. Maybe the game would present you with one of those nifty "choose a flag" menus on start up, or maybe you would have to maneuver into the options menu to find it like sega was trying to sneak it by their japanese-reading audience.

The point was more that doing the localization as part of the development and releasing the product as one version seems like a way to go that they haven't tried. Obviously there is still cost associated with the translation work, but rather than treating this cost as it's own separate entity/problem, someone at Sega could fight to have it included in with all the other costs of making the game. I don't know the business realities at play, nor any of the costs, so it's not really a suggestion as much as me trying to think out-loud about what options are even available at this point.

Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 02:44:37 PM »
well yes. In this fantasy example of mine all the text in the game would be available in english. Maybe the game would present you with one of those nifty "choose a flag" menus on start up, or maybe you would have to maneuver into the options menu to find it like sega was trying to sneak it by their japanese-reading audience.

The point was more that doing the localization as part of the development and releasing the product as one version seems like a way to go that they haven't tried. Obviously there is still cost associated with the translation work, but rather than treating this cost as it's own separate entity/problem, someone at Sega could fight to have it included in with all the other costs of making the game. I don't know the business realities at play, nor any of the costs, so it's not really a suggestion as much as me trying to think out-loud about what options are even available at this point.

You'd then be expecting fans to import the game from Japan, because if you tried to sell it here legally at retail, you'd run into similar licensing issues (ie. the theme songs that are always cut, 3rd party IPs, facial likenesses, etc.) that past titles that actually got localized had to deal with.

I just don't think Sega of Japan cares enough to do that. Not hatred, just lack of interest based on the poor sales numbers. It's pretty obvious these games are made with the Japanese audience in mind.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 02:47:45 PM by Mr. Gundam »
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brob

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2013, 02:50:32 PM »
Yes, I was operating under the assumption that the interested consumers would import. And yes, I agree that sega doesn't care enough to bother.

Frankly I'm impressed they bothered for as long as they did, going by the numbers Oscar has posted.

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2013, 03:37:10 PM »
The point was more that doing the localization as part of the development and releasing the product as one version seems like a way to go that they haven't tried. Obviously there is still cost associated with the translation work, but rather than treating this cost as it's own separate entity/problem, someone at Sega could fight to have it included in with all the other costs of making the game. I don't know the business realities at play, nor any of the costs, so it's not really a suggestion as much as me trying to think out-loud about what options are even available at this point.

just so you know, this is fairly ludicrous, simultaneous translation and release is 150%-250% more expensive than staggered translation and release
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Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2013, 03:41:37 PM »
how are your japanese studies coming along, himu?

Decent, could be better.
IYKYK

brob

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2013, 03:46:23 PM »

just so you know, this is fairly ludicrous, simultaneous translation and release is 150%-250% more expensive than staggered translation and release

that seems counter-intuitive, likely because I have no knowledge of the process.

 thx.

 the_more_you_know.png

Steve Contra

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 04:45:40 PM »
Don't listen to Howard he has no idea what he's talking about.  Sega just hates fans in the west and wants you to suffer like G did.
vin

Tasty

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 04:59:10 PM »
Speaking of where the heck is my HotD5 Sega?

Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 07:12:01 PM »
I liked Majima in 1 but in 2 it just got silly.
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Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 07:22:23 PM »
I love you too.
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Tasty

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 08:06:48 PM »

I liked Majima in 1 but in 2 it just got silly.

Well, you suck anyway, so who cares what you think.

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thisismyusername

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2013, 08:56:15 PM »
The point was more that doing the localization as part of the development and releasing the product as one version seems like a way to go that they haven't tried. Obviously there is still cost associated with the translation work, but rather than treating this cost as it's own separate entity/problem, someone at Sega could fight to have it included in with all the other costs of making the game. I don't know the business realities at play, nor any of the costs, so it's not really a suggestion as much as me trying to think out-loud about what options are even available at this point.

just so you know, this is fairly ludicrous, simultaneous translation and release is 150%-250% more expensive than staggered translation and release

Wat? Explain why some in-house translations by Japanese devs were done this past generation. Demon's Souls, IIRC, had an "Engrish" translation done in-house. I know Toro: Let's Party was also translated by the devs internally within SCEWW's department.

thisismyusername

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2013, 10:01:54 PM »
Well, yeah, obviously. But translating at the same time no matter the script size shouldn't be that huge, right? It's text mostly. I can't see how that would be an exorbitant cost for an Engrish translation. Now, proofing it... yeah, I could see there being a bit of a cost then.

Himu

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2013, 10:07:44 PM »
Yakuza games are full of accents and different dialects, particularly kansai. So no, it isn't just a matter of translating text. Then factor in UI costs, licensing of real world products, and you've got one hell of a localization to do. It isn't worth it for a fanbase of ~10k.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2013, 10:26:18 PM »
hey guys lets question the knowledge of industry insiders even tho we have no idea what the fuck we are talking about thatll be cool huh
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Trent Dole

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2013, 11:28:07 PM »
hey guys lets question the knowledge of industry insiders even tho we have no idea what the fuck we are talking about thatll be cool huh
You'll never make me stop lamenting PSO2's nonlocalization no matter the amount of logical reasoning and facts you present! :P :punch :gun
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Steve Contra

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »
Yeah I was actually kidding (I HOPE YOU ASSHOLES GOT THAT).  There's actually very few people you could ever talk to who could give you a better sense of what localization takes than our very own Howard.
vin

MCD

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2013, 05:06:43 PM »
If Hentai games with tons of text can be translated in mere months for free, why should anyone listen to excuses for Sega?

 :derp

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2013, 07:48:36 PM »
without getting into too much detail

the additional cost of simultaneous localization is caused by churn and inconsistency. it's like trying to paint a picture of a movie. by the time you're finished, you've had to re-paint half of what you did up front. this is unavoidable. games in development are continually in flux.

if you want to minimize cost of localization, a stable, completed product will always provide the best foundation for minimum word count (translation is generally cost per word) and minimum time investment.

at that point you can spend as much or as little as you like on quality. localization generally consists of three steps (translation, editing, proofreading or TEP) - you can do just some of those steps, but you're going to have a shitty product if you skimp out. many games skimp out.

whether you bill the localization to Sega of America or Sega of Japan is completely irrelevant

whether you use in-house localization resources or outsource the translation is also irrelevant. though generally speaking, outsourced localization companies usually use freelancers so they're going to be significantly cheaper than in-house resources, though at the cost of quality/context
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 07:52:12 PM by Howard Alan Treesong »
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2013, 07:54:12 PM »
tl;dr: the cheapest way to translate a game is to wait until the Japanese assholes who have no idea how to make games properly quit fucking around, revoke their SVN access, package the strings into an XLS and send them to a company that pays weeaboo third-year Japanese students $3.75 an hour to "live the dream" of working in the game industry

THIS I KNOW TO BE TRUE. :shaq2
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 08:01:06 PM by Howard Alan Treesong »
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MCD

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2013, 07:58:51 PM »
Quote
a company that pays weeaboo Japanese students $3.75 an hour to "live the dream" of working in the game industry

 :fbm :fbm :fbm

tiesto

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2013, 09:45:33 PM »
How is the programming for the translations (and tools creation) usually handled nowadays? Is it western translation groups hacking at it and adding their own changes (I know WD used to do this in the past, as well as XSEED with some of the Falcom releases), or is it the original Japanese team?
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Sho Nuff

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2013, 10:11:11 PM »
Treesong droppin troof bombs

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2013, 10:12:08 PM »
I knew if I waited long enough Howard would type it so I wouldn't have to.

How is the programming for the translations (and tools creation) usually handled nowadays? Is it western translation groups hacking at it and adding their own changes (I know WD used to do this in the past, as well as XSEED with some of the Falcom releases), or is it the original Japanese team?

Almost always the latter nowadays.  WD was a really rare case.  For example, the reason we aren't already playing Ys Calcutta in English?  Falcom's been busy as fuck with Sen no Kiseki.

hard-coding strings that requires hacking/recompiles is extremely bad juju. good practice is putting all localizable assets into a resource pack and then choosing the correct resources at time via a code switch (i.e. "load en-US/shityouwontread.csv instead of ja-JP/shityouwontread.csv). this also makes it trivial to mix text/audio assets from different languages. even though this is the easiest shit in the world a lot of companies still don't do it.

Falcom sucks at coding btw (tho Natsume sucks worse)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 10:15:29 PM by Howard Alan Treesong »
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Sho Nuff

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2013, 10:21:28 PM »
Back when I was working in the late nineties it was nuts, man. We had a floor full of translators for every freakin language, and when we didn't have a European translator  for a certain language we'd fly one in and put them up in a hotel for the length of the localization period. The translators would sit in with the team and move from project to project, bouncing around cubicles. It was very, very expensive but the quality was superb. We also had a blast because it was nonstop international PARTY TIME

Nobody does that anymore :(  Well, maybe Nintendo, but who knows what those weirdos do in the Treehouse, I never talk to those guys

Tasty

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2013, 10:42:48 PM »
Furry orgies, I'd guess. :phil

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 03:46:46 AM »
there was also that Vanillaware PSP game with the XSeed finished translation (Grand Knights History) that never came out in Murica because Vanillaware couldn't spare anyone off from Dragon's Crown.

you think they could have hired someone (like one friggin qualified guy), so at least they get to keep the liscencing fee they would have earned.  But what do I know.

Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 11:58:41 AM »
"Shut up you guys! You don't know what you're talking about! Sega is just stupid and mean and evil and is denying me what's mine! You could just get my buddies and I to do it, we translate anime fansubs in a couple hours, it's not like this game would take much longer! This stuff is cheap. The Yakuza games are really popular here, you'd make a lot of money."

 :dizzy
野球

Tasty

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 12:18:22 PM »
TBH I feel bad for Yakuza fans. We've all been there where we know a game probably won't be localized but we want it anyways.

It's probably doubly hard because they can't even feign indignation and point to decent-ish/good sales, like I did when Capcom was taking for-fucking-ever to talk about MH 3G. Sales that bad (for the last Yakuza) basically means there's no hope.

The people saying Sega should do it anyways are morons though, of course. But it's hard missing games in a series you like. It's like the five stages of grief.

Sho Nuff

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2013, 02:07:57 PM »
I buy all the fuckin Yakuza games day one, then I see em discounted to twenty bucks a month later. Shouldn't have bothered

It's not like those games are getting any better, almost all of them end with a bunch of dudes with their shirts off whaling on each other on a rooftop

Rahxephon91

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2013, 02:12:43 PM »
STRIP!!

Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2013, 02:13:47 PM »
It's not like those games are getting any better, almost all of them end with a bunch of dudes with their shirts off whaling on each other on a rooftop

As a member of The Bore, that should be your favorite part.
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 05:09:39 PM »
Speak of the devil, good in-depth look at Rune Factory 4 file format and the trials of videogame JRPG localization: http://kotaku.com/getting-jrpgs-out-in-english-is-harder-than-you-think-1441094168

What RF4 is showing is almost a best-case scenario, too.
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Bebpo

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2013, 07:12:44 PM »
I buy all the fuckin Yakuza games day one, then I see em discounted to twenty bucks a month later. Shouldn't have bothered

It's not like those games are getting any better, almost all of them end with a bunch of dudes with their shirts off whaling on each other on a rooftop

I heard 4 was pretty good though (as in a step up from Kenzan/Y3). 

Sho Nuff

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2013, 10:23:47 PM »
Speak of the devil, good in-depth look at Rune Factory 4 file format and the trials of videogame JRPG localization: http://kotaku.com/getting-jrpgs-out-in-english-is-harder-than-you-think-1441094168

What RF4 is showing is almost a best-case scenario, too.

Yeah, these guys have it easy compared to some of the shit I've seen. Can you say "20,000 text files"?

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 01:29:17 AM »
I can say 38,000 text files!
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Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 04:28:42 AM »
Im sorry but nothing can be as bad as translatinh hidden object games that were made by russians who wrote the source text in their version of english

Sho Nuff

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 10:07:48 AM »
and i can say how the hell did you convince yourself to stay at those jobs for more than a couple months, let alone several years?

must have been getting some pretty sweet benefits.

The people were nice, hours worked were okay, and the pay was better than pretty much any other Japanese game company out there… Which isn't saying much

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Sega has shut down all official Yakuza sub sites outside of Japan
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 12:57:27 PM »
and i can say how the hell did you convince yourself to stay at those jobs for more than a couple months, let alone several years?

must have been getting some pretty sweet benefits.

The people were nice, hours worked were okay, and the pay was better than pretty much any other Japanese game company out there… Which isn't saying much

by that point I was far enough along in my career that instead of managing the translation of 38,000 files I could focus on building a tool that manages the translation of 38,000 files and allows translators to view them as a reasonable set of 30 contextually grouped files. this gave me the technical background in localization management to eventually leave the game industry and join my current career. so it all worked out !
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