Scholars to present evidence Christ was fictionalized

[Himu]

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

 

[benjipwns]

And who created these "first-century Roman aristocrats"? That's right, G-o-d.

FACED.

[Himu]

IT'S NOT JUST ANCIENT HISTORY

[benjipwns]

"Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

And you people laughed at Dan Brown.

[Himu]

"Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

And you people laughed at Dan Brown.

Re-reading Da Vinci Code now to solve this riddle.

[Phoenix Dark]

nope

One can believe he wasn't God, but it's hard to outright deny that Jesus once existed. I'd prefer focusing on other shit. Like the fact that there are historical records of him being killed, but none of him resurrection. You'd think that Josephus' account wouldn't just be "this guy lived and then he died" if Jesus rose from the dead and hovered in the sky to preach to 300+ people before flying into the sky.

[benjipwns]

nope

One can believe he wasn't God, but it's hard to outright deny that Jesus once existed. I'd prefer focusing on other shit. Like the fact that there are historical records of him being killed, but none of him resurrection. You'd think that Josephus' account wouldn't just be "this guy lived and then he died" if Jesus rose from the dead and hovered in the sky to preach to 300+ people before flying into the sky.

If magic is all we've ever known
Then it's easy to miss what really goes on
But I've seen miracles in every way
And I see miracles everyday

(Are you a firm believer in miracles)
Magic everywhere in this bitch
(Do you notice and recognize miracles)
It's all around you, you don't even know it
(Are you a firm believer in miracles)
Magic everywhere in this bitch
Shit's crazy
(Do you notice and recognize miracles,
So many miracles, the magic miracles)

[Phoenix Dark]

abrahamic religion

India has the best religions breh. Bitches with 4 breasts, 8 arms, swords n shit. It's like Diablo Curry.

[Himu]

I dunno. If I were ever to go into the pit of religion again, it'd be down to Buddhism, Taoism, or Confucianism. That is, if you consider these religions. There's some good things about religion, but for the most part, I'm pretty apathetic towards it. There's no reason to be anti-theistic, though.

[Smooth Groove]

I dunno. If I were ever to go into the pit of religion again, it'd be down to Buddhism, Taoism, or Confucianism. That is, if you consider these religions. There's some good things about religion, but for the most part, I'm pretty apathetic towards it. There's no reason to be anti-theistic, though.

Been watching Kung-Fu movies lately?

[benjipwns]

I'm a fan of Taoism.

[nudemacusers]

zoroastrianism is the best religion. sounds like some shit from a scifi fantasy novel, and Angra Mainyu sounds like a killer end-boss in an RPG.

[Himu]

I dunno. If I were ever to go into the pit of religion again, it'd be down to Buddhism, Taoism, or Confucianism. That is, if you consider these religions. There's some good things about religion, but for the most part, I'm pretty apathetic towards it. There's no reason to be anti-theistic, though.

Been watching Kung-Fu movies lately?

No, I read the Tao Te Ching, though. Taoism has some nice insight but it's fairly anti-intellectual and it prides itself on this footnote. Buddhism, and further, Zen/Chan/Seong Buddhism strike a better balance given that Chan originally married Buddhism with the Tao. I've had an interest with eastern stuff going back a long time, both of my xbl tags have something to do with Eastern faith (Muladhara, which comes from Hinduism) and Ren Li Zhong (which comes from Confucianism).  But I'm too lazy and disinterested to apply them into my life. I've been getting into Metta Meditation though, and that certainly helps.

So if I were to pick a religion again it'd definitely be Buddhism. Stuff is fun to study though.

[Himu]

I'm a fan of Taoism.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm a fan of Taoism.

(Image removed from quote.)

had to read that in a philosophy class, really enjoyed it

*prepares for Eschalon shade* 

[CatsCatsCats]

Requesting thread title change to "man sells book"

All my self explorations make me attracted to eastern religion far more than anything else.

[Himu]

The Tao of Pooh is a good book but undermines many of the Tao's basic tenants. For one thing, I really dislike how the author actively shits on other philosophies, namely Confucianism (he calls Confucians "Confusionists"). That's not very Tao. And the way he shits on scholars and science is even worse. The author constantly rejects Pooh's friends in favor of Pooh, but never accepts his friends for what they are; very un-Tao. It's like reading a book from this guy who decided - from pure ego - to pen something definitive on a subject, without understanding its core philosophies, and manages to become a millionaire from it. That being said, it does contain some wonderful insight.

[benjipwns]

I haven't seen the anti-intellectual complaint about Taoism before, any links or whatever? (Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding.)

[Himu]

I understand that. For many, that's the appeal of it, but for me it's a downside. Buddhism offers a better variant and sense of balance, I think.  Daoism though, I can still fuck with it.  It gets to a point though, when I can't tell the diff between Taoism and Buddhism.

For example:

30

Whoever relies on the Tao in governing men
doesn't try to force issues
or defeat enemies by force of arms.
For every force there is a counterforce.
Violence, even well intentioned,
always rebounds upon oneself.

The Master does his job
and then stops.
He understands that the universe
is forever out of control,
and that trying to dominate events
goes against the current of the Tao.
Because he believes in himself,
he doesn't try to convince others.
Because he is content with himself,
he doesn't need others' approval.
Because he accepts himself,
the whole world accepts him.

[Himu]

I haven't seen the anti-intellectual complaint about Taoism before, any links or whatever? (Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding.)

19

Banish wisdom, discard knowledge,
And the people will be benefited a hundredfold.
Banish human kindness, discard morality,
And the people will be dutiful and compassionate.

[benjipwns]

translations of the Dao De Ching

Yeah, I just came across this looking up Himu's quote and it is no help at all: http://www.wayist.org/ttc%20compared/chap19.htm 

Quit distinguishing the wise and their wisdom, the saints and their holiness, and the people will be a hundred times better off.

For example, this is like an entirely different concept.

[Himu]

The Mitchell translation is better (as always):

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html#19

Throw away holiness and wisdom,
and people will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit,
and there won't be any thieves.

If these three aren't enough,
just stay at the center of the circle
and let all things take their course.

[Himu]

Also:

48

In pursuit of knowledge,
every day something is added.
In the practice of the Tao,
every day something is dropped.
Less and less do you need to force things,
until finally you arrive at non-action.
When nothing is done,
nothing is left undone.

True mastery can be gained
by letting things go their own way.
It can't be gained by interfering.

[Himu]

translations of the Dao De Ching

Yeah, I just came across this looking up Himu's quote and it is no help at all: http://www.wayist.org/ttc%20compared/chap19.htm 

Meh, there is a lot of terrible stuff out there on the net; a lot of it falls into this tao of pooh shit about 'going with the flow' type new age spiritual capitalism hippie faggotry.

http://www.daoistcenter.org/ is a good site. The articles in the basic section are a cool place to start.

Thank you! Fuck that book and fuck that author

[benjipwns]

http://www.daoistcenter.org/ is a good site. The articles in the basic section are a cool place to start.

This is quite a bit more helpful than the Wiki entries. I read the Dao and Zhuangzi years and years ago, but going through the mess* that is Wiki entries on most philosophies was just getting things more confused than helping to remember and learn.

*At least I can say it's somehow still better than any Wiki entry on Aristotelian philosophy seems to be. Though I haven't checked in a while, the last time they were complete gibberish after five hundred people had reworked them to "better explain."

[Himu]

That is a solid site, Esch. What got you interested in Daoism?

[nudemacusers]

buddha was fat, jesus was lean and ripped. and white. gonna have to go #teamjesus on this one.

[benjipwns]

google my signature.

It's all in wingdings.

[benjipwns]

You can admit the real reasons:

In the Dead or Alive series of video games, Gen Fu and Eliot employ the style while in the Tekken series, Wang Jinrei uses pure Xingyiquan, while Michelle Chang and her daughter, Julia Chang, use Xingyiquan mixed with wrestling and Kung fu. In the Mortal Kombat series, Shao Kahn employs Xingyiquan as well as Tai Tsu Chang Quan.[20] Jet Li also performed Xingyi in the action movie The One.

[Rufus]

Boob physics and doll people aside, it's actually pretty fun. Me and my cousin put a lot of time into DoA2 on the PS2. It's a very quick game and the counters are so easy to do it gave me a fighting chance against him. He had played it so much that the rough texture of the dpad was polished away.

[demi]

I'm a fan of Taoism.

(Image removed from quote.)

Kingdom Hearts

[Himu]

Depends on what you want out of Buddhism. If you want a good resource, just go to the library. Check out Buddhism Plain and Simple. If you're interested in the actual teachings of the Buddha, you can't do better than the Dhammapada.

Also depends on what you want out each school. Best way is to just get out there and visit a temple, see what you like, and experience it. For example, I have never visited a Theravada temple, but I have visited Mahayana (particularly Zen) temples. Talk to a teacher. You will get information. Practice meditation.

There's a lot of differentiation between the schools. A lot of theravada schools are basic and just try to honor the original path Buddha laid before people. They're very literal in their interpretations, especially in regards to things like Mara. Zen/Chan/Seong tends to think in the allegorical, Mara, to them, is the ego and we battle Mara in ourselves. Tibetan is fulllll of metaphysical stuff, Zen concentrates on applying meditation to everything you do. Then there's Vipassana, and all this other stuff. The fascinating thing about Buddhism is how it has transmigrated to each and every cultures values it meets. The way it had transformed in the west is fascinating, for instance. Honestly, I'd suggest looking into all of them. Buddhism is diverse is just a wealth of knowledge and wisdom, none of them "wrong" per se, but different.

If you want an actual resource, surprisingly I would suggest no further than r/buddhism:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/wiki/faq

It is a wonderful community of informative people just trying to help eachother out. Check out the faq linked above.

buddha was fat, jesus was lean and ripped. and white. gonna have to go #teamjesus on this one.

The laughing Buddha (Budai) wasn't Buddha. He could have been *a* Buddha, but he was just a Chinese Buddhist monk who liked passing candy to children. He's not THE Buddha, however. Western knowledge of Buddhism is quite pathetic for the lay people.

[Himu]

As for me, video games (notably Digital Devil Saga 1+2) are what got me into Eastern stuff. Not ashamed in the least.

Games have amazing imagery.

Esch have you read the Ramayana or the Mahabharata?

[Himu]

What do you think?

[Diunx]

Lol not even gonna bother sharing this on FB would most certanly lose a couple of friends.

[Himu]

BTW Esch, due to your interest in Daoism, I'd suggest looking into Chan Buddhism first. Chan is a Mahayama school birthed in China. It is the precursor to Zen - no, it IS zen, just the Chinese version - and married the tao to Buddhism. You will find a lot of the Tao in Chan.

[Steve Contra]

Well that wraps it up for Christianity.

[Himu]

Wordup

Himu how did you become a muslim

I was taught there was something wrong with being a non-believer at a young age. I was taught not to ask questions and that would lead you from faith. I had a crisis in faith at 16/17. By 17, I no longer believed in God, but I couldn't accept it, as it seemed wrong, and I was very angst-fueled with my atheism. So I went to college, stopped going to church, and still couldn't find anything to latch on to. Not believing in anything wasn't working, and I hated Christianity. There had to be something out there, there has to be truth, so I convinced myself to believe in a God again. You can tell by my old posts that my theism was shaky, at best. It wasn't so much belief, as it was belief in belief, and I really wanted to believe. I felt that the monotheistic tradition of Islam would be better suited than secular humanism or Buddhism, or Taoism, because frankly, monotheism was all I knew. So I got into Islam, and told myself that,"well, I don't agree with THAT, but I need religion since everyone else is religious, so whatever." Bear in mind, my search for truth had nothing to do with "saving" myself or going to heaven. I never cared about heavenly reward - still don't - and my pursuit was based purely on what was true.

Eventually, I realized I was deluding myself and realized there was nothing WRONG with being a non-believer. I read the God Delusion, and for the first time I was comfortable with my own spirituality and could come to terms with it.

How did I become a Muslim? In a word: naivete.

[Phoenix Dark]

Muslim Himu was a drag.

Collect calls to the tip saying how you changed
Oh you a Muslim now, no more porn games

[Himu]

I was never particularly religious as a kid either. I had other priorities. I didn't understand the importance of Jesus' sacrifice until I was a teenager, and by that time, it was too late. However, everyone dear to me IS religious. That is the defining factor. Having the confidence and conviction to stick to your guns amid pressure to conform is tough. Those people at my old church still try to contact me and act like I'm a participant despite coming maybe twice a year.

[Himu]

those are mean things to ask

On a good note, at least you can eat cow now

[Himu]

your parents

[Phoenix Dark]

Stopped being religious a long time ago, but I'd still find myself defending religion or expressing religious views (see: my 2006 posts here). My family is quite religious. We started off as Pentecostals, which is hardcore mode. Then my parents moved away from that and joined a church/non-demonination that was the complete opposite of that shit: no more speaking in tongues, no more baptism, no more works, no more focusing entirely on The Gospels, etc. If I had to compare it to music, I'd say it would be like moving from being into trap music to listening entirely to backpack rappity rap: technically better, but boring as shit.

I used to enjoy trolling Baptists, "owning" people with bible passages, etc.

But despite my parents' disappointment, I haven't been religious in years. I realized there may be a god, but there's almost no way it's any god that man believes exists. It's probably just a higher power/consciousness, who knows. I still think atheism is stupid as hell, and I'm comfortable being a lazy agnostic.

[Phoenix Dark]

brehs as a child I was so shook by end times shit that I literally would start sweating at night if I heard anything that sounded like a trumpet.

[El Babua]

^ Yeah, a lot of religions basically list shit that's always been going on because of human nature so people will constantly think we're at the end times and must be saved.

[Phoenix Dark]

At least Jewish kids could ironically participate in Christmas stuff if they wanted. Whereas Jehovas Witness kids couldn't do shit and had no money.

[Himu]

Revelations scared the shit out of me. No joke. When I started going through puberty and I had thoughts of lust or got horny I would slap myself arm, leg, face, wherever - to snap myself out of it.

[Brehvolution]

Isn't it weird that the same fear mongering tactic the bible uses is the same thing the right wing media uses to manipulate behavior? 

[Human Snorenado]

Reading this thread is a trip, and reminds me how lucky I was (for once) to have been born to hippie dippie idiots for parents that didn't like religion.

[Diunx]

Revelations scared the shit out of me. No joke. When I started going through puberty and I had thoughts of lust or got horny I would slap myself arm, leg, face, wherever - to snap myself out of it.

My grandma had an illustrated book of revelations shit was fucking insane I used to love seeing the crazy images.

[ToxicAdam]

Reading this thread is a trip, and reminds me how lucky I was (for once) to have been born to hippie dippie idiots for parents that didn't like religion.

I had parents that raised me on religion, but once I was confirmed (8th grade), I was free to do what I want and have never went back.

It's pretty bizarre to me how involved people get into it.



Anyways, the past few years I've been having more and more doubts about our history. Not the recent kind, but the pre-industrial revolution history which was mostly oral stories passed on. Just knowing human nature and how much people are full of shit (in general) or easily misled, or willing to follow authority it really casts a pall on everything I've ever learned.

I'm not willing to go as far as say Christ didn't exist, but I'd be willing to accept that his existance is about the only thing factual about the guy.



 

[Human Snorenado]

It's weird- I'm pretty sure that I would have ended up as a lazy ass agnostic no matter how I'd been raised, because I'm a contentious fucker that likes to argue bullshit with no proof.  If I'd been raised by religious parents, there just would have been a lot of beatings involved, I'm sure.

Then there's my boss- who was interestingly enough raised by basically the same kind of parents, but decided he loved him some Jesus later in life (early 20's) when he met his wife.  (woman to blame, OF COURSE.  thanks based rib creatures!)

[Diunx]

tbh I wish I wasn't an atheist since the idea of ceasing to exist scares the shit out of me but I just can't bring myself to believe in all that illogical shit.

[Himu]

My thing is that I'm still spiritual at heart. When I mean spiritual, I don't mean spiritual but not religious, but I've been trying to treat all things with the respect they deserve. This combined with my lack of belief makes for some interesting scenarios. This is why I'm pretty down on the western philosophies, as while they contain a wealth of knowledge and wisdom, they pretty much try to answer the question,"why do we live?" rather than "how should we live?", which of course answers the first question. I find them spiritually dry and Ive always been more interested in the second question.

[Himu]

Mara is the lord of death in Buddhist mythology. In some schools of Buddhism, he's seen as a demon. In others, he's a figure for our own ego that we must defeat in order to obtain enlightenment. In SMT, Mara takes on the form of a penis, which is quite apt for Mara give its intentions.

Some nice koan on Mara:

One day Mara, the Evil One, was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face was lit up on wonder. The man had just discovered something on the ground in front of him. Mara’s attendant asked what that was and Mara replied, “A piece of truth.”

“Doesn’t this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?” his attendant asked. “No,” Mara replied. “Right after this, they usually make a belief out of it.”

[Brehvolution]

Mara is my daughter's name. 

Mara Grace

[Himu]

Mara is my daughter's name. 

Mara Grace

Fuck yes.

[Raban]

Mara is my daughter's name. 

Mara Grace

hopefully she doesn't look anything like this Mara

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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