Author Topic: Replaying Chrono Cross  (Read 7011 times)

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Human Snorenado

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Replaying Chrono Cross
« on: December 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM »
...aka, the best psx era jrpg :jawalrus

Dat element field system

No traditional leveling system

Best jrpg music for it's generation

Making nostalgiatards cry moar when you heap deserved praise upon it

:jawalrus

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...dem furries tho :snoop
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 03:17:32 PM »
dat soundtrack

:noah

I'm happy that 15 (oh god ... 15?) years later I can look back and still be happy I gave it a 10.0

is it a perfect game? no

is it the one game I would preserve from Square's prolific, top-notch PSX JRPG output? yes
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 03:19:41 PM »
I'ma get all the endings this time. ALL THE ENDINGS.
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magus

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 03:19:51 PM »
chrono cross was ze lame sequel oui?
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 04:51:08 PM »
Great game play and music. Not a better psx RPG than Suikoden II though. I'd love to replay it down the line.
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 05:02:43 PM »
Also amazed Triumph enjoys such a non traditional approach for someone who prefers iteration. Then again you like BOFDQ so you don't mind experimentation I guess.
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demi

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 05:05:28 PM »
I'd pick Parasite Eve as my "archival" game
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 05:08:59 PM »
Parasite Eve is okay.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2013, 05:14:02 PM »
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2013, 05:29:16 PM »
Also amazed Triumph enjoys such a non traditional approach for someone who prefers iteration. Then again you like BOFDQ so you don't mind experimentation I guess.

I love innovation that results in something GOOD. Innovation for the sake of "let's do something different" that turns out to be shitty is a dumb idea. You can say all you want about hindsight, etc, but that's just the way I look at things.
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2013, 06:19:53 PM »
It makes sense. But one could easily make that argument about Cross. It didn't feel anything like Chrono Trigger and came off as a bad Suikoden wannabe. If the name didn't involve Chrono, you could hardly tell it's even in the same series. Isn't that innovation for the sake of innovation? Not that I'm disputing your point or even disagreeing with it, just opening a dialogue.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2013, 06:20:27 PM »
PSX-era Squaresoft  :mouf
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2013, 06:22:30 PM »
IYKYK

Great Rumbler

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2013, 06:34:19 PM »
PSX-era Squaresoft  :mouf

The pinnacle of greatness.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 07:40:12 PM »
It makes sense. But one could easily make that argument about Cross. It didn't feel anything like Chrono Trigger and came off as a bad Suikoden wannabe. If the name didn't involve Chrono, you could hardly tell it's even in the same series. Isn't that innovation for the sake of innovation? Not that I'm disputing your point or even disagreeing with it, just opening a dialogue.

A) I don't personally put the Suikoden series on the pedestal y'all seem to; I prefer CC to every Suikoden, even 2.
B) The game had enough nods thematically and gameplay wise to CT for it to suffice, imo. I didn't want a "sequel" to CT, ever. It was a great game and had a passable story, but I felt like it was resolved in that game.
C) See above. I don't think that's innovation for the sake of innovation. What, in your mind, would a CT "sequel" look like?
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 07:45:04 PM »
A) I don't personally put the Suikoden series on the pedestal y'all seem to; I prefer CC to every Suikoden, even 2.

omg. :tocry
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2013, 07:47:34 PM »
Collecting 108 characters is fucking boooooooring.
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magus

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2013, 07:51:24 PM »
Collecting 108 characters is fucking boooooooring.

dude but collecting annoying character is all you do in chrono cross :beli

at least suikoden has nobody that is as awfully bad as the "cha" family

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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2013, 07:55:30 PM »
yeah, but there's way less than 108 to collect, and if I remember correctly you can use all of them in your party, none of this "bro come be a cook at my castle, shit will be tight yo"

usefulness > window dressing

Also, if you actually read dialog in jrpgs, you're doing it wrong, assholes
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2013, 07:57:43 PM »
But all you do in CC is collect characters. And they are so random and have zero back story or relevance. In Suikoden, characters have backstories and are often blended into the main plot. Suikoden V's cast of recurring characters who are included in the main plot borders in 30's or 40's. It has the best character writing I have seen in an rpg considering its scope. Compare to Chrono Cross where I recruit...a talking dog and a strawman. Why, I don't know. But in Suikoden it's usually tied to Chinese/Japanese history or The Water Margin. But either way, even with the smaller character roster in CC, there are so few characters are actually involved in the actual story. It feels so pointless.

As for a CT sequel, I've always envisioned it as a heavy emphasis on adventure just like the original, that's self-contained like Final Fantasy - but with nods of a larger lore ala Dragon Quest, larger emphasis on techs and combos, expanding upon the time travel story by blending it with gameplay. Let's be honest, the time travel didn't really impact CT's gameplay TOO much. But in a sequel, you should be able to do things in any order, and have a different outcome happen in a non-linear manner to usher the urge to replay and make every players individual experience different. That could keep it in line with the trademark CT multiple endings gimmick while also making it more relevant to the players experience. It doesn't even have to be related to Crono and the gang. I don't see why it's so hard, and I don't see why CT is put on such a pedestal. It was a kick ass rpg with a knack for adventure not unlike Dragon Quest. There are a lot of areas CT could have expanded and improved upon: game difficulty and balance (it is pretty fucking easy), more gameplay and story ramifications for dabbling with time, and more sidequests.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 08:00:13 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2013, 07:58:24 PM »
Also, if you actually read dialog in jrpgs, you're doing it wrong, assholes

I always read the dialog in JRPGs. :smug
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 07:58:50 PM »
Also, if you actually read dialog in jrpgs, you're doing it wrong, assholes

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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2013, 08:22:34 PM »
But all you do in CC is collect characters. And they are so random and have zero back story or relevance. In Suikoden, characters have backstories and are often blended into the main plot. Suikoden V's cast of recurring characters who are included in the main plot borders in 30's or 40's. It has the best character writing I have seen in an rpg considering its scope. Compare to Chrono Cross where I recruit...a talking dog and a strawman. Why, I don't know. But in Suikoden it's usually tied to Chinese/Japanese history or The Water Margin. But either way, even with the smaller character roster in CC, there are so few characters are actually involved in the actual story. It feels so pointless.

These are pluses. STFU AND BE STATS.
yar

Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2013, 08:27:20 PM »
I don't get the point of playing an rpg if you tune out the story. I mean, it's a big part of the games and I say this as someone who mainly plays rpgs for gameplay - Suikoden being the lone exception. It's like playing an Bethesda game and skipping all the text. You're missing such a huge part of the game, I don't see the point in playing it.

But opinions are opinions for a reason I guess.
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Rufus

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2013, 08:43:55 PM »
i think it's okay to *read* the dialogue, but don't make the mistake of taking that shit seriously
I actually get some amount of pleasure from spotting the nonsense. I also like to know what's going on, no matter how dumb. I'm playing Wild Arms 4 right now and I just saw a scene where the villains, apropos of nothing and amongst themselves, laid out why they are evil and the villains.

Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2013, 08:54:50 PM »
Yeah, I have to know what's going on in a game to enjoy it. Skipping dialogue in an rpg the first time you play it just makes no sense to me.
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Great Rumbler

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2013, 09:39:20 PM »
If you don't want to read text, go play Tetris or something.
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Trent Dole

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2013, 10:40:09 PM »
Hi

magus

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2013, 06:47:02 AM »
i think it's okay to *read* the dialogue, but don't make the mistake of taking that shit seriously

are you saying xenogears isn't the best story ever since the reinassance?
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2013, 01:32:10 PM »
chrono cross was ze lame sequel oui?

oh no! as a fan of Chrono Cross I've never heard this before in the past 15 years. lo, I am slain
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tiesto

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2013, 05:22:33 PM »
It may be a bit of a lost art in these days of "go to the big red X to advance", but I miss the days of RPGs (east and west) where you actually had to go around towns and talk to people for clues and shit.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2013, 05:25:16 PM »
can you imagine what it would be like if someone made a gigantic game like that and it was one of the best games ever and it sold like 20 million copies and everyone loved it
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2013, 06:03:01 PM »
If youre talking about Sky rim, it has markers so you didn't get his point.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2013, 06:20:12 PM »
wikipedia is a reliable source
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2013, 06:26:43 PM »
I thought Skyrim didn't sell that much, but I thought it'd be at 12 m by now.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2013, 06:34:13 PM »
apparently the 20 mil number comes from recent eso press release so :fistfulshrug

my point is that in skyrim you find clues and quests by talking with townspeople, proving that they still do make games like that.
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2013, 06:38:26 PM »
Yes, and then you hit the quest button, and follow the quest marker, so no, they don't make games like that.
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Positive Touch

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »
or you dont use the completely optional quest marker and then congratulations! you do have a game like that
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2013, 07:17:30 PM »
Don't bother, PT. It's not surprising Himumu celebrates the horribly mundane shit in games, though- this is someone who had a sad that SRIV cut out all of the "driving around bullshit" in that genre, and who loves collecting all 108 stars of destiny.
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Damian79

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2013, 07:20:50 PM »
I also dont play JRPG's for story.  However Cronotrigger  was the better game if you take out the story.

Enemies werent always placed in a straight line form each other and moved from time to time.  Allowing for some interesting strategies.  The skills/spells in CT had different shapes atleast early.  Late game it was "one or all" like all games today.  Thats the main difference between CT and CC in terms of gameplay.  As for best playstation era rpg game for some reason i enjoyed FF8 purely because of the guy that did streetfighter moves as skills forgot his name.  It was mostly forgettable for me.

PS2 era had awesome RPG games though.  Best was BoF:DQ.  I am sad that that game didnt sell enough that it didnt warrant a sequel.

Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2013, 07:30:12 PM »
Don't bother, PT. It's not surprising Himumu celebrates the horribly mundane shit in games, though- this is someone who had a sad that SRIV cut out all of the "driving around bullshit" in that genre, and who loves collecting all 108 stars of destiny.

Actually, I'm a gamer with eclectic tastes. I can enjoy SRIV and GTAV, I can enjoy Suikoden, and I can enjoy Skyrim. I can play FIFA and play Yakuza. All of those things you listed in your post are merely a symptom of your own lack of varied tastes and means of wanting to have new and different experiences. And in this case, we're talking about playing Skyrim without a quest marker. I sure as fuck play Skyrim with a quest marker - but I guess reading is too mundane.

As for playing Skyrim without a quest marker, good fucking luck. :lol Assuming you've traveled the entire world and have every location marked on your map, you're going to be using a quest marker. Not to mention most of your quest logs mention how and where to go to your next objective anyway. Skyrim is baby food compared to older rpgs where you needed to talk to npcs. Not saying it's a bad thing - because I prefer the streamlined take of Skyrim over the bullshit in Final Fantasy 1 - but saying that Skyrim is exactly like those older rpgs Tiesto was referencing is not only incorrect, but fucking laughable.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 07:32:10 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2013, 08:03:23 PM »
:yeshrug

I'm in a bitchy mood, why else would I be playing all these jrpgs???
yar

Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2013, 08:05:29 PM »
For the fun and adventure. For the quest! For the NUMBERZ!! For the npc dialogue!!!
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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2013, 08:13:33 PM »
He couldn't be talking about Skyrim, it didn't even sell half that many copies.  At 20 million, he's either talking about Pokemon, Minecraft, Super Mario, or Call of Duty.

As the follow-up to the 2002 Role-Playing Game of the Year, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind®, and the 2006 Game of the Year, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion®, Skyrim earned hundreds of ‘Game of the Year’ awards and has sold over 20 million copies.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2013, 08:39:17 PM »
I'm pretty sure it got the coveted "Cruncheons GOTY" award.
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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2013, 08:40:41 PM »
It's always interesting when PRs differ from independent sales tracking, isn't it?

:yeshrug
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2013, 08:45:22 PM »
It's always interesting when PRs differ from independent sales tracking, isn't it?

It's always interesting when Oscar throws around his "insider" cred without backing it up with any evidence.

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Positive Touch

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2013, 08:50:01 PM »

As for playing Skyrim without a quest marker, good fucking luck. :lol Assuming you've traveled the entire world and have every location marked on your map, you're going to be using a quest marker. Not to mention most of your quest logs mention how and where to go to your next objective anyway.

soon as someone tells you about a location, whether in passing or because of a quest, it is added to your map. all you gotta do is open the map to find out how to get where youre going.
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benjipwns

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2013, 05:44:52 AM »
One thing I've always found surprising is how well the Chrono games tie up a lot of their dangling threads. (Though I seem to remember Trigger doing this better. Probably because of the nature of a single universe.) Which is pretty unusual for time travel stories across all mediums. I think it's because they try not to tie everything to the main plot and allow for small "corrections" related to the characters rather than more grand ones tied to the central plot. The multiple endings helps since they didn't have to bring everything back to a single timeline.

Then again I also liked the time travel in God of War II and Singularity. (And the Futurama game. :-[) Though God of War II's is mostly because it's so literally insane and like "okay, fuck yeah, that'll work" probably because it didn't have to finish the cliffhanger. (And how everyone in the game treats it like this thing you just do when you have shit luck, "oh yeah, go see the sisters of fate.")
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 05:48:32 AM by benjipwns »

Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2013, 10:44:26 AM »
Chrono Cross doesn't have time travel. It has alternate worlds.
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benjipwns

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2013, 04:21:25 PM »
I thought you did some time traveling within the alternate universes. I admit I haven't played it in probably at least twelve years.

Maybe I should.

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lol yeah right, *sighs* and mentally expands the "backlog" yet again...
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2013, 04:37:26 PM »
Let me correct myself. Cross has time travel, but in small gulps, and it's not front and center like in Trigger.  If it were an actual time travel story, where you go from different eras like in Trigger, I think they would be liked it more than Trigger. Reason being, that in Cross, gameplay and story was actually affected by the two alternate worlds where in Trigger, it usually wasn't. . However, Cross still has time travel as a plot element. Kid for example goes in time to save Serge and shit, and iirc, you go in time to the final dungeon though I could be wrong. I have no clue what you mean by Cross making all of its elements work, though, because it doesn't; it's a convoluted mess. FFVIII makes more sense.

Benji, I do share your love for time travel stories. Something about them makes me just forget all flaws. Don't give a shit.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 04:52:56 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
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magus

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2013, 04:59:23 PM »
i don't hate chrono cross but the plot is sort of non-sensical (heck even now if you asked me what the plot of the game is about i wouldn't have a clear answer... there is this cat guy and he's evil and... something to do with dragons?) the way they ram chrono trigger into chrono cross is so badly done you'd think modern square traveled into the past and ruined it and the battle system is more complicated than what is worth

honestly when you remove all the production value from it (amazing production value,those 3D model could pass for an early ps2 game) all that remains is the colorfull cast of dumb character like the dancing voodoo doll and the skeleton clown which for me make it the worst squaresoft psx game (we aren't counting saga games because anything kawazu touch loses the right to be called games)
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2013, 04:59:55 PM »
The plot is absolutely terrible and makes Xenogears blush.
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2013, 05:03:42 PM »
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ZephyrFate

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2013, 05:07:27 PM »
Suikoden 2 was heavily flawed and this game was way better.

magus

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2013, 05:11:11 PM »
The plot is absolutely terrible and makes Xenogears blush.

xenogears is a game i love but the pacing is so awfull and there is so much foreshadowing it gets stupid
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2013, 05:12:16 PM »
Suikoden 2 was heavily flawed and this game was way better.

:lol :lol

I can't get over calling Suikoden II "highly flawed" (:what :sabu) while defending Chrono Cross, a game with a cast of 45 characters and only 5 of them have development or relevance, whose character recruitment faculties - for the most part - are literally "talk to character, recruit character" while holding the premise of being a "game", with a plot so convoluted it makes Xenogears look like baby food.

Cross' flaws eclipse any flaw Suikoden II has that you made up in your mind. :lol
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 05:34:24 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
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Himu

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2013, 05:35:54 PM »
The plot is absolutely terrible and makes Xenogears blush.

xenogears is a game i love but the pacing is so awfull and there is so much foreshadowing it gets stupid

I loved XG when I played it a long time ago. But it is pretty ridiculous.
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Trent Dole

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Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2013, 06:46:05 PM »
What? CC's plot isn't complicated. You're supposed to be dead, but you're not and this causes a rift in whatever thus there being a timeline where you ain't dead. Also, cat man.
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