APARTMENT TIME WOOOOOOOO

[fistfulofmetal]

As a lot of you have seen, I've been thinking a lot about things in the last 6 months. I've been trying to figure out why I'm not *happy*.

One of the things I've realized is that I really don't like living in Buffalo. In fact I really don't like living in the USA if I'm honest.

The work culture that exists in this country is disgusting and it makes me sick to my stomach. Company's are able to treat their employees like garbage and Americans take it because we think it's acceptable. I hate it.

Plus the culture in general in this country is pretty awful, especially here in Buffalo.

I think I need a complete culture shift and the only way to do that is to move. Not just move to another city but to another country.

And after thinking about where I would like to go, Sweden sounds like a place for me. Runners up would be Finland, and Norway.

So let's say I wanted to move there. What kind of advise would you have for me? Keep in mind I've already been thinking a lot about the things I would need to do but assume here this is the first time I've thought of this. What would you say to me?

[ToxicAdam]

Are you mentally okay with doing something like this and it not working out the way you wanted it to?

For instance, what if this 'answer' to your problems only creates even more problems you didn't forsee? Can you handle that or could it potentially break you?

I think that would be my greatest concern.

[headwalk]

i'd put denmark on that list too, though i think immigration there is a fair bit tighter than sweden.

[lennedsay]

Coming from someone who has the exact same conversation every day about moving to Sweden, do it now! Don't wait until you're locked into a crappy job and mortgage and have kids. GTFO. I wish we would've done it. Half of my family keeps up on FB and the other half are assholes anyway so it's not like we'd be missing much. STLbore and a few good friends, my parents. That's it.

It's 16F right now in STL with nasty slushy snow all over and a crappy commute. And it's 41F in Malmö. Ughhh

[Mupepe]

If you really want to move I'm with Lennedsay.  Do it before you develop some anchors.  But your reasoning sounds a bit naive to be honest.  Make sure that you actually have an understanding of these cultures and you're not projecting on them (see gaffers and Japan).  Corporate culture is indeed very different in that part of the world (I work a ton with people in Norway and Finland for my job) and it's not all positive.

[fistfulofmetal]

Are you mentally okay with doing something like this and it not working out the way you wanted it to?

For instance, what if this 'answer' to your problems only creates even more problems you didn't forsee? Can you handle that or could it potentially break you?

I think that would be my greatest concern.

That is a concern. However I think that ultimately DOING it and FAILING is better for me then NOT DOING IT.

Also, my company has a policy where if you leave but come back in 3 months, it's like you never actually left. So if I do this and it I dont think I can make it work in 3 months, I have a safety net.

Obvs 3 months is not  A LOT but it's something.

[fistfulofmetal]

If you really want to move I'm with Lennedsay.  Do it before you develop some anchors.  But your reasoning sounds a bit naive to be honest.  Make sure that you actually have an understanding of these cultures and you're not projecting on them (see gaffers and Japan).  Corporate culture is indeed very different in that part of the world (I work a ton with people in Norway and Finland for my job) and it's not all positive.

Yeah. I agree. It's definitely one of those "US SUX" and I'm all wide-eyed for the magical land of Sweden or whatever.

But really, the point of this is getting the EFF out of the USA. That's the point. Where I go is not set in stone. If some other place makes sense then that's that.

[Reb]

It's easy to blame your surroundings for your state of being.
Consider the fact that if your have trouble connecting with people, it will be way harder to do with an added barrier of culture and language.
To be honest I don't know your particular issues, but changing scenes this drastically could realistically add to them.

I personally found it hard to make lasting connections in England, a country only separated from mine by a little bit of water, where I had a good grasp on the language.

On the other hand, if you're young, it wouldn't be so bad to change your mind after a few months and move back if it doesn't work out.

I do believe change stimulates personal growth, but I would be cautious to see a change of scenery alone as a solution.

[T-Short]

Hehe. So how much do you actually know about Sweden? What's the depth of your research, here? Pretty sure we're at least as bad as Buffalo

[demi]

Find a Swede to shack up with like Cloud, problem solved.

[brob]

Isn't Lager moving to Denmark? Maybe he has some info/tips n trix on the immigration process

And to echo everyone, you can't really run away from anxiety or similar issues. If you feel like some of your problems with your current environment is due to such factors I'd consider that priority one.

[ToxicAdam]

That is a concern. However I think that ultimately DOING it and FAILING is better for me then NOT DOING IT.
.

I think that's a healthy outlook and hopefully you can maintain it.

Personally, I think moving (anywhere else) at least once in your life is one of the greatest things you can do for yourself. It builds character, self-reliance and gives you space to define yourself (instead of constantly attempting to meet the definitions that others put upon you).

So, if you can keep that attitude of it being a life experience that helps shape who you are and not the answer to your problems, then you should be able to land on your feet if you do not succeed in the way you hope.

[demi]

I'd consider moving out of Buffalo, place is a black hole, really. Somewhere with some culture and stuff to do. Like Chicago! Or Boston.

[lennedsay]

If you really want to move I'm with Lennedsay.  Do it before you develop some anchors.  But your reasoning sounds a bit naive to be honest.  Make sure that you actually have an understanding of these cultures and you're not projecting on them (see gaffers and Japan).  Corporate culture is indeed very different in that part of the world (I work a ton with people in Norway and Finland for my job) and it's not all positive.

Yup, do your research first, then get out. Have you ever been to Europe, fistful? I basically hated my life when I got back to the states and I was only in Germany for a month. There's always a "grass is greener" aspect, and it's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows. But personally, I'm tired of a 3+ hour daily commute to and from a typical "don't expect decent pay, just be happy you have a job with benefits" US corporation.  As a working mother, I'm pretty much shit on here. I have a ton of health issues I can't even afford to address. I absolutely hate it here.

I already figured out the taxes for us, and it's about the same overall percent, and when you factor in everything we'd get from paying taxes in Sweden, we're losing money continuing to live here.

[Stoney Mason]

I definitely don't have an issue with thinking America sucks but as others have mentioned I'd be careful not to make a huge move based on some idealized fantasy of a different culture.

Why not Canada? Seems to offer some similar conceptual benefits and its probably a lot less expensive move with an easier transition.

[Stoney Mason]

From the outside looking in Canada seems like a better version of the US. But Canada for some reason has an image issue. I think people think its boring or unhip or something.

I've definitely noticed that in recent years Sweden has moved up in the hip factor of countries.

[lennedsay]

Why not Canada? Seems to offer some similar conceptual benefits and its probably a lot less expensive move with an easier transition.

Agreed, only drawback is that you're a Canadian though.

He's from Buffalo, so he's basically Canadian now without any of the benefits.

[archnemesis]

Sweden is a pretty nice place, but make sure you have a plan if/when you arrive here. Without a job or a school to go to it's going to suck.

[fistfulofmetal]

I'll admit. There is definitely a "pie in the sky" notion going on here. Getting out of the country is super alluring.

If I were to STAY in the USA, I'd probably want to go to Seattle or something like that.

[lennedsay]

Do you know any foreign languages, fistful?

[fistfulofmetal]

NOPE.

[fistfulofmetal]

But if I were to move and I solidified a place, I would hire a professional to teach me.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Always remember, Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

[Atramental]

Aw snap.

Last night I was actually thinking about making a thread asking about the process of becoming a Canadian citizen.

I'm at work right now so I can't really devote too much attention to this subject.

But feel free to enlighten me, Canada-Bore.

[archnemesis]

But if I were to move and I solidified a place, I would hire a professional to teach me.

That's a good approach but there are also several free alternatives. In Sweden we offer all immigrants free Swedish courses and you might even get a bonus if you excel at it. You can also borrow novels in simplified Swedish from your local library.

[ToxicAdam]

But if I were to move and I solidified a place, I would hire a professional to teach me.

How would you pay this? What kind of job can someone get in a foreign country when they don't speak the native language?

[fistfulofmetal]

That's a good approach but there are also several free alternatives. In Sweden we offer all immigrants free Swedish courses and you might even get a bonus if you excel at it. You can also borrow novels in simplified Swedish from your local library.

Yeah, I saw that. In fact there seems to be a pretty good resource online for people looking to immigrate to Sweden on their website.

How would you pay this? What kind of job can someone get in a foreign country when they don't speak the native language?

I mean I would hire someone before I went. Learn the language and THEN go. But from what I've seen, and this may be just a wild assumption, but English is pretty common in Sweden so it's not impossible to get by.

[archnemesis]

That's actually the biggest hindrance. You'll get by fine with English and that prevents many from ever learning the local tongue. It will however limit your job prospects if you don't know any Swedish.

[T-Short]

We'll let you in as long as you don't like Garden State

[Eli Gulgin]

If you really intend to learn the language you might want to forget about Finland:

http://depressingfinland.tumblr.com/post/65222506844/what-do-you-mean-finnish-is-difficult

(Someone on GAF posted that so I don't know what's up with the missing lines.)

Swedish at least seems like it would be somewhat logical for an English speaker to learn, at least enough to get by in basic everyday situations.

[archnemesis]

[fistfulofmetal]

I think the first thing first, start saving money. I have around 5k in the bank and could easily increase that by not spending unwisely or better managing it.

[Great Rumbler]

(Image removed from quote.)

[Rufus]

Yeah. You know how German declension looks difficult? German has four cases: nominative, accusative, dative, genitive. Four. Finnish has sixteen.
And I haven't even touched verb conjugation.

Swedish is a LOT easier.

[Shaka Khan]

I don't have anything to add aside from the posts I "liked." So mostly about putting more researching whatever destination you end up picking and rationalizing your motivations. But at the same time, don't allow it discourage or intimidate you too much, because this part bears repeating for emphasis—

I think that's a healthy outlook and hopefully you can maintain it.

Personally, I think moving (anywhere else) at least once in your life is one of the greatest things you can do for yourself. It builds character, self-reliance and gives you space to define yourself (instead of constantly attempting to meet the definitions that others put upon you).

So, if you can keep that attitude of it being a life experience that helps shape who you are and not the answer to your problems, then you should be able to land on your feet if you do not succeed in the way you hope.

It can't be stressed enough. It almost has nothing to do with your destination and almost everything with the fact that you're leaving your moldy comfort zone.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Why not Denmark? Its the most happy nation and its scandi too.

Im moving there in 4 weeks, we can hang. I dont speak the language but will get lessons once im there.

Have you travelled before? I agree with rebiak that a change like this might add anxieties, but it could also set you free. Maybe a nice big trip to see whats out there?

Ive found that a 2/3 month trip can give you loads of new perspectives already, you dont have to make a deep plunge and just move. Why not try a 2 month trip first?

[CajoleJuice]

It can't be stressed enough. It almost has nothing to do with your destination and almost everything with the fact that you're leaving your moldy comfort zone.

what if every time you do that, you fail miserably

[ToxicAdam]

what if every time you do that, you fail miserably

It's just how you want to frame it.

You can either view it as failing miserably or just one more step towards getting it right.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Amen Adam.

[CajoleJuice]

 

[ToxicAdam]

 

I know it's borderline pop psychology pap, but it really is true. Most of us only learn by our failures or mistakes. Even when we 'succeed' it's usually awkward, messy and not how we planned.

[Shaka Khan]

I agree. It depends on what you'd deem as a "success"— is it some naive definition of "happy" or the fact you can survive in a place thousands of miles away from the closest family member, friend, or native language speaker for more than a few months without choking on your own tears.

[Phoenix Dark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Sweden

[Shaka Khan]

[Mupepe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Sweden

fistful, need a roomie?

[Mr. Gundam]

(Image removed from quote.)

My grandpa is fluent in Finnish, his parents came to the states before he was born. He said it's absolutely insane.

[Skidmark]

As a lot of you have seen, I've been thinking a lot about things in the last 6 months. I've been trying to figure out why I'm not *happy*.

One of the things I've realized is that I really don't like living in Buffalo. In fact I really don't like living in the USA if I'm honest.

The work culture that exists in this country is disgusting and it makes me sick to my stomach. Company's are able to treat their employees like garbage and Americans take it because we think it's acceptable. I hate it.

Plus the culture in general in this country is pretty awful, especially here in Buffalo.

I think I need a complete culture shift and the only way to do that is to move. Not just move to another city but to another country.

And after thinking about where I would like to go, Sweden sounds like a place for me. Runners up would be Finland, and Norway.

So let's say I wanted to move there. What kind of advise would you have for me? Keep in mind I've already been thinking a lot about the things I would need to do but assume here this is the first time I've thought of this. What would you say to me?

Listen man, I get you, I know where you are coming from. So here's what's up, me and you get married that way you can live in Sweden and i can live in the states. What do you say? 

[Skidmark]

Coming from someone who has the exact same conversation every day about moving to Sweden, do it now! Don't wait until you're locked into a crappy job and mortgage and have kids. GTFO. I wish we would've done it. Half of my family keeps up on FB and the other half are assholes anyway so it's not like we'd be missing much. STLbore and a few good friends, my parents. That's it.

It's 16F right now in STL with nasty slushy snow all over and a crappy commute. And it's 41F in Malmö. Ughhh

How long have you lived in Sweden? Are you in Stockholm?

[Stoney Mason]

Coming from someone who has the exact same conversation every day about moving to Sweden, do it now! Don't wait until you're locked into a crappy job and mortgage and have kids. GTFO. I wish we would've done it. Half of my family keeps up on FB and the other half are assholes anyway so it's not like we'd be missing much. STLbore and a few good friends, my parents. That's it.

It's 16F right now in STL with nasty slushy snow all over and a crappy commute. And it's 41F in Malmö. Ughhh

How long have you lived in Sweden? Are you in Stockholm?

I think she is saying she wishes she had made the move. I don't she is currently there.

[Eli Gulgin]

Swedes can't read smh

[Skidmark]

Find yourself someone that is willing to marry you for the nationality. That's the best way to go about it i believe. After three or five years you get the nationality. You also have to go to school and learn Swedish. What skills do you have? what kind of work can you do? if you learn how to weld you get get a good pay within a year or two. Once you have settled you can translate your education documents and start working with what you want.

3 months won't get you anywhere. Its hard to get a job in Sweden. The country is beautiful and you will definitely like it here. It takes two years to learn Swedish and 10 years to learn how to speak with swedes. They are very reserved and do not easily make new friends unless they are drunk.

Try online dating websites, see if you can find someone that is interested.

[Stoney Mason]

Swedes can't read smh

I heard Swedes like to go to swag parties. Any nation that is involved in that isn't worth moving to!

[Skidmark]

By the way, if you feel unhappy talk to a psychiatrist. It won't hurt. You might have some kind of depression even if you do not feel ''sad''. I think you know what I mean. It doesn't hurt and if you find an antidepressant that works for you you might find joy again in what you do. 

[Skidmark]

Swedes can't read smh

I heard Swedes like to go to swag parties. Any nation that is involved in that isn't worth moving to!

I know that you secretly would love to go to one stoney. You would be the king of the place!!

[MyNameIsMethodis]

I had a dream of moving back to the queens land but the truth is they don't want foreigners and most european places are very ignorant of immigrants. Like to move to a european country you have to proove that you can do a job better than someone who is of thatrespective country can do. And good luck on doing that in real civilized countries

[Skidmark]

I had a dream of moving back to the queens land but the truth is they don't want foreigners and most european places are very ignorant of immigrants. Like to move to a european country you have to proove that you can do a job better than someone who is of thatrespective country can do. And good luck on doing that in real civilized countries

Its the same thing if you want to apply for a job in USA. I get really jealous of all those ''web-celebrities'' on youtube and vine and what not that get those visas.

[Stoney Mason]

On a serious note I think exploring different parts of America is also a really good thing to do. I don't know much about Buffalo. But in my life experiences, I can definitely tell you there are shitty places to live in America. If I lived in certain places in the US I would almost certainly eventually suck a bullet. There are better places even in America.

[Skidmark]

Yeah and I personally would remove Finland from the list. I never heard anyone say anything good about it, didn't hear anyone say anything bad either but they are even more isolated i believe. That's like moving to Sweden on Veteran difficulty. Norway has a lot more jobs than Sweden. A lot of swedes move there to work, good pay too!

[Steve Contra]

You should definitely move to a cold Nordic country with little sunlight if you're feeling depressed in the dead of winter

[Phoenix Dark]

How would a black man be greeted in Sweden? I might move in with Fistfull.