Masculinity

[Skidmark]

What your thoughts on this subject?

I personally believe that this is a real issue and i hate it. I think that women were successful at breaking the label of what a woman is, it's hard to just imagine what a woman should be like today, the same can not really be said about men and what a man should be like.
I think we all need security and closeness in our relationships and we all need to be understood and forgiven when we do not perform to expectations. I think I have been able to come over this cultural masculinity thing and I honestly do not give it much room in my friendships and relationship, when i watch movies with my friends i lay down with them in the same bed and it is really relaxing to be able to do that. However, when I am in town or at a party or when I am drunk i feel that my masculinity takes a much larger part of my character and it feels good too when I am around new people.

[Skidmark]

Here as an opposing view:



I think her stand on this is just really stupid. I mean the question here is what a man or a boy should be like and to me there shouldn't be that kind of dumb pressure. You should extended the same security, trust and understanding to a boy that you would extend to any other child or person. A boy should be able to get the closeness and intimacy that a girl would also be able to get. No one is saying it should be forced on everyone. Also, the thing about boys being adventurous, energetic and competitive why is that a masculine thing according to her? why can't a girl be that too if she wants too? I bet a lot of girls would have enjoyed tagging along on those activities that the boys were shown ´doing in the videos.

Honestly she is just comes off as a biased anti-feminist on this whole thing.

[Mupepe]

The idea of masculinity needs to be done away with. People are people. I grew up in a household where my dad was ultra macho. Military man, shot guns, fixed cars, etc. But I had lots of heart to heart conversations with him and I saw him cry. Everyone would describe him as a typical example of "masculinity" but it's BS. I think I reflect that from him. I have male friends I have known over 15 years and we tell each other that we love each other (and not just drunk). I am able to tell my wife and friends how I feel, I cry during sad movies and I do the cooking and cleaning in my household. But at a glance, I lift weights, ride a motorcycle, I love guns, practice mma and watch (some) sports. When people ask my interests they get a certain image of me if that's what I tell them. Drop the characterizations of masculinity just like the idea of what is feminine needs to be dropped. There are only people and their interests and characteristics that dont fit into any boxes neatly

[CajoleJuice]

The idea of masculinity needs to be done away with. People are people. I grew up in a household where my dad was ultra macho. Military man, shot guns, fixed cars, etc. But I had lots of heart to heart conversations with him and I saw him cry. Everyone would describe him as a typical example of "masculinity" but it's BS. I think I reflect that from him. I have male friends I have known over 15 years and we tell each other that we love each other (and not just drunk). I am able to tell my wife and friends how I feel, I cry during sad movies and I do the cooking and cleaning in my household. But at a glance, I lift weights, ride a motorcycle, I love guns, practice mma and watch (some) sports. When people ask my interests they get a certain image of me if that's what I tell them. Drop the characterizations of masculinity just like the idea of what is feminine needs to be dropped. There are only people and their interests and characteristics that dont fit into any boxes neatly

[brob]

In Norway there was an attempt at a men's liberation in the 1970s, though it was not terribly successful, largely due to an inability to ''agree on what needed to be done'', but there was some writing (read: chin stroking) done on it that you might find interesting. All in Norwegian, I'm afraid. Strangely, the only language that has an wikipedia article on "myke menn" (soft men, which is what the men's movement called themselves) is french.

http://www.forskning.no/artikler/2013/mars/351845
http://www.kampdager.no/arkiv/menn/artikkel_rudeng.html

-

Personally, I'd say that there are certainly aspects of masculinity or the manner in which boys are socialized that are detrimental both on an individual and societal level. For instance, attitudes toward seeking (both physiological and psychological) heath care.

[Skidmark]

The idea of masculinity needs to be done away with. People are people. I grew up in a household where my dad was ultra macho. Military man, shot guns, fixed cars, etc. But I had lots of heart to heart conversations with him and I saw him cry. Everyone would describe him as a typical example of "masculinity" but it's BS. I think I reflect that from him. I have male friends I have known over 15 years and we tell each other that we love each other (and not just drunk). I am able to tell my wife and friends how I feel, I cry during sad movies and I do the cooking and cleaning in my household. But at a glance, I lift weights, ride a motorcycle, I love guns, practice mma and watch (some) sports. When people ask my interests they get a certain image of me if that's what I tell them. Drop the characterizations of masculinity just like the idea of what is feminine needs to be dropped. There are only people and their interests and characteristics that dont fit into any boxes neatly

Same here, I have a couple of friends who were really popular and got all the girls when they were in their teens. Today they started a support group for young adults were they just hang out like friends and show support for each other. I was blown away when I was talking with one of them recently, he talked about feelings, support, expectations, friendships, goals, life. He was just so real about everything, it really made me wonder why people just can't talk like that in general.

[Mupepe]

The idea of masculinity needs to be done away with. People are people. I grew up in a household where my dad was ultra macho. Military man, shot guns, fixed cars, etc. But I had lots of heart to heart conversations with him and I saw him cry. Everyone would describe him as a typical example of "masculinity" but it's BS. I think I reflect that from him. I have male friends I have known over 15 years and we tell each other that we love each other (and not just drunk). I am able to tell my wife and friends how I feel, I cry during sad movies and I do the cooking and cleaning in my household. But at a glance, I lift weights, ride a motorcycle, I love guns, practice mma and watch (some) sports. When people ask my interests they get a certain image of me if that's what I tell them. Drop the characterizations of masculinity just like the idea of what is feminine needs to be dropped. There are only people and their interests and characteristics that dont fit into any boxes neatly

you know you want this.

[CajoleJuice]

that video is my defense mechanism against sharing my feelings  :'(

[Mupepe]

I still call my friends feggits and pussies. I dont think some jimmy rustlin has anything to do with gender stereotypes. We do it in good fun and there's no love lost. And I don't really associate the term taco with gays. Its just habit and some people are just feggits.

[Raban]

I still call my friends feggits and pussies. I dont think some jimmy rustlin has anything to do with gender stereotypes. We do it in good fun and there's no love lost. And I don't really associate the term taco with gays. Its just habit and some people are just feggits.

Know that some people might have different feelings about this than you do, and that you ought to take responsibility and apologize if/when you really hurt someone.

[Himu]

Masculinity itself isn't bad. It just is. Nothing can change that. The problem is many define masculinity as manliness or what it means to be a man. It is limiting and damaging in an innumerable amount of ways.

[Human Snorenado]

I've tried to curb a lot of the dumber impulses I have in real life; I've largely expunged distinguished mentally-challenged fellow, taco, etc from my vocabulary. I don't like calling something "gay" as a negative descriptor; sometimes I'll still bust it out, but I always follow it up by saying "and by gay I mean happy, which is actually offensive, as opposed to two dudes making out or whatever."

Online I'm still mostly a fucking neanderthal idiot, although I've made efforts here too.

Some friends and I were actually having this discussion the other night and a girl said that she'd been calling stuff "lame" as a coping mechanism and been chastised by someone in a wheelchair. It's like, shit. WHAT'S LEFT TO FALL BACK ON.

[Skidmark]

I really do not understand what name calling has to do with masculinity. Both genders do stupid shit. When I think of masculinity in this context I think of not allowing a boy to feel secure when has problems because a real mean deals with his own shit on his own. When it comes to males who are depressed and feel suicidal many do not ask for help because they are brought up in a way where they were taught that asking for help with your problems is a weakness.

[Himu]

The name calling - under specific pretenses - and not talking about ones feelings are one and the same, dude. You make fun of the kid who ties the bottom.of his T-shirt like the girls because that's not something a boy does.  Similarly, some men are less likely to express their feelings for the same reason. They're the same, skid.

[Himu]

The difference: calling names to josh around and has nothing to do with gender norms, is fine in private.company. but when people use names and language to discredit ones masculinity or manhood, that's a problem.

Also, I contend the idea that women don't go through with this. Many women I know won't lift weights because they see it as masculine and for men despite the research that suggests that it is very good for women's bodies and you won't look like Chyna. I'd say that the idea of feminity weigh a bit less on women - as it is far more acceptable to be a tomboy for instance - but it is still a real thing and a huge problem. We were talking about women with facial hair the other week here. I'all let you guess what most of the responses were.

The faster everyone drops pretenses on people and what their actions and preferences should be like the more better off we will be.

[Mupepe]

I think it kinda does though, I mean I only really call someone a pussy when they're not doing something in a competitive/masculine context (taking a shot, going another round of sparring, etc etc). I might do it jokingly or out of love, but the reason I do it a lot of times is because of some underlying gender conventions, you know what i mean? On the use of the word fakkit; I'm really trying to curb that one even though I have used it a lot in the past. Whether we associate the term with gays or not is irrelevant because they associate it with them and they perceive it as a slur. I mean it's not like you could really say the word nicca and separate it from it's racial origins.

The name calling is one thing. I really regret the hazing more than anything else. That's an endless cycle in masculine institutions though, but I have to admit that I took to it pretty eagerly. I guess I wasn't thinking at the time. It really doesn't have to be like that.

The name calling - under specific pretenses - and not talking about ones feelings are one and the same, dude. You make fun of the kid who ties the bottom.of his T-shirt like the girls because that's not something a boy does.  Similarly, some men are less likely to express their feelings for the same reason. They're the same, skid.

well that's the thing you're both under the assumption that the name calling and shit talking is both mean spirited and targeting some form of gender identity issue. If you're doing that then I hope you're not calling yourself a friend of these people. My shit talking is when we are playing video games, rooting for opposite teams in a sporting event or something of that nature. I can't remember the last time I called someone a taco in real life for doing something "feminine".

I still call my friends feggits and pussies. I dont think some jimmy rustlin has anything to do with gender stereotypes. We do it in good fun and there's no love lost. And I don't really associate the term taco with gays. Its just habit and some people are just feggits.

Know that some people might have different feelings about this than you do, and that you ought to take responsibility and apologize if/when you really hurt someone.

well obviously yes. Thats part of being a friend and the being mature. I also dont pull that shit with people I'm not extremely familiar with. Thats social etiquette 101.

[Phoenix Dark]

We cannot discuss masculinity without first acknowledging the United States government's involvement in the systematic feminization of the Asiatic black man. It started years ago when Hollywood liberals began dressing once respected black comedians - Martin Lawrence, Eddie Murphy, Jaime Foxx, etc - in women's clothes. Now black men don't even need money to dress like women, they do it all by themselves. Kanye West is trying to make wearing "skirts" cool. I'm telling you, AIDs was only the first step.

[Mupepe]

In short, if you're an adult and still shit talking people you barely know you're probably just an asshole, not necessarily "masculine".

[Himu]

well that's the thing you're both under the assumption that the name calling and shit talking is both mean spirited and targeting some form of gender identity issue. If you're doing that then I hope you're not calling yourself a friend of these people. My shit talking is when we are playing video games, rooting for opposite teams in a sporting event or something of that nature. I can't remember the last time I called someone a taco in real life for doing something "feminine".

Eh? I've know you since 1998.  That's why i said under specific pretenses. I know you wouldn't say it in a harmful manner. That's why I said in polite, private company, among people you know and are comfortable with. In essence, I was reiterating your argument.

[Mupepe]

well that's the thing you're both under the assumption that the name calling and shit talking is both mean spirited and targeting some form of gender identity issue. If you're doing that then I hope you're not calling yourself a friend of these people. My shit talking is when we are playing video games, rooting for opposite teams in a sporting event or something of that nature. I can't remember the last time I called someone a taco in real life for doing something "feminine".

Eh? I've know you since 1998.  That's why i said under specific pretenses. I know you wouldn't say it in a harmful manner. That's why I said in polite, private company, among people you know and are comfortable with. In essence, I was reiterating your argument.

sorry dude. I meant to edit to just leave the first part of your post but I am on my phone and lazy haha

[Himu]

Art of Manliness and any of those type of websites are part of my problem. They constantly talk about what's manly and what isn't manly. The "manliness" mask these sites and other forms of media wear only exists to hide their own lack of confidence in an attempt to cover up their own failings. There's nothing wrong with masculinity, but I find it odd that people are so concerned with what's manly and what isn't, that they write about it in blog editorials. Here's how to smoke a turkey - it will make you manly! What a joke.

[Trent Dole]

Most things associated with being masculine/feminine/male/female are just social constructs and thus total mother fucking bull shit, yes, but you can't ever fully escape these things.

[Atramental]

I'm a fan & supporter of Borian Masculinity.

[Rufus]

We played a stupid card game on a schooltrip once, where you draw cards and depending on what it is, the other 'players' get to hurt your hand in a specific way (slap, pinch, pound, grind knuckles into it, etc.). There was this one kid who was sort of accepted, but also bullied a lot. Nothing horrible, just made the butt of joke or shoved around. He always put on this defensive smile, as if getting hit in the shoulder a bunch was funny to him, too (Andrex kinda does that on here, but with likes instead of smiles). People were especially hard on the guy during that game. All our hands were swollen by the end of it, but his looked the worst. He showed it off like he was proud of it. I was the only one who went easy on him, even though he insulted me during the game. I hindsight I think he may have taken my leniency as me rejecting or disrespecting him or whatever. Teenagers. I participated obviously, but this sort of stuff never made much sense to me.

That kind of viciousness comes out most online, where I don't have to see the look on someone's face. Offline I don't really assert my dominance over people or try to be a dick for any reason other than annoyance or anything. I don't even play pranks on people.

[Skidmark]

I constantly prank my friends and pull their legs, it's not a dominance thing to me it's just me being playful. My girlfriend had to explain to her friends a couple of times that when i like someone i start teasing him/her because that how i learned to play. I went overboard several times but it didn't hit me until later that i just don't ''play normally'' with other kids/adults.

The first friend i made in school was a kid that i chased around the playground until he got made and started chasing me, when he gets tired or gives up we switch turns. I thought we were friends and i really liked him. It really blew my mind when he one day collapsed and started crying. I even knocked on his house one day after school to play with him but his mother gave me a mean look and told me to leave her son alone. I felt very confused and misunderstood.

I lost friends and cousins over monopoly. I take that shit way too seriously and start fighting when someone doesn't want to continue playing.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

As a heads up, the Art of Manliness is run by Mormons.  You can tell because everything there is that Mormon type of sterility.

Regarding my personal life, I just do whatever I want to do.  I don't feel the need to adhere to and rebel to stereotypes, I pick and choose.  It is annoying to see that grown adults feel they need to stick to a personality type and base their whole being around it.  And since this is the internet where everything is black and white, not only do you stick to that personality type with fervor, you have to bash the other types as well. 

[TEEEPO]

my scale is starting to show 160lbs instead of averaging somewhere around 155lbs and my waist size has remained the same

man the fuck up, bitches

[Your Stalker]

why is that your avatar

[TEEEPO]

god im so buff

[etiolate]

The real issues aren't what either of those YT's address. Both feel sort of trite with their viewpoints. Expectations of the male in society do not leave a lot of options for men, and it's not like the negative view of masculinity portrayed in those videos is the sole property of young men. That "pathological masculinity" inhabits women as well and is a part of the culture of success.

The one thing I'd agree with would be that "problem talks" as referred to in the second video do not scare me or bother me as much as they have proved to be worthless and unproductive. The people who want the male to have a "problem talk" tend to want it for their own gain since the male often gets nothing out of it. In a sadistic way, it's the side pushing for the talk wanting to see the "injured male" that is an image that is often sexualized in our society. The male himself gets nothing out of it.

[Great Rumbler]

[benjipwns]

[Shadow Mod]

The worst of it has to be the constantly stoic, never talk about my past, delayed response to going to the doctor.

God damnit dad.

[benjipwns]

I want more posters to brag about their many masculine qualities and then brag how typically unmasculine and sensitive they are as well. The next poster can say, "Yeah, I can bench two plates. But that's not all that I am, you know? I'm sensitive too. I read poetry. I'm so above masculinity." Gender-based humblebragging

[Mupepe]

I want more posters to brag about their many masculine qualities and then brag how typically unmasculine and sensitive they are as well. The next poster can say, "Yeah, I can bench two plates. But that's not all that I am, you know? I'm sensitive too. I read poetry. I'm so above masculinity." Gender-based humblebragging

i have got a foot long wiener and I hate it when girls think I'm just a jack hammering fuck machine. I want to pillow talk too sometimes

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

One time a girl almost choked to death on my massive cock.  I bawled like a baby afterwards because I almost took a life man...

[Diunx]

Haven't read any of the post or watched the videos, just dropped by to say I love having a cock and a beard.

[Atramental]

Both being two things you can stroke in order to feel contentment.

[Raban]

cocks and beards are overrated

[Human Snorenado]

For women, yeah. I'm quite fond of mine! (although I look like a complete and total chinless doofus without a beard, so that probably explains why I've always got one)

[Raban]

I dunno I think most straight women are into beards, and definitely into dicks. I'm not a straight woman tho

[Himu]

FACIAL HAIR AND DICK

[Himu]

CHEST HAIR

HAPPY TRAILS

PUBIC HAIR

[Shadow Mod]

I dunno I think most straight women are into beards, and definitely into dicks. I'm not a straight woman tho

Depends on the beard.

Groomed, yes.

Long, no.

[Raban]

Yeah I don't know anybody who's into men that seriously rock a merlin. Shit is a hygiene concern.

[Atramental]

I dunno I think most straight women are into beards, and definitely into dicks. I'm not a straight woman tho

After the right amount of drinks... neither am I. Wanna scissor?

[Himu]

I dunno I think most straight women are into beards, and definitely into dicks. I'm not a straight woman tho

After the right amount of drinks... neither am I. Wanna scissor?

(Image removed from quote.)

 

but your sig says penis

[Atramental]

Ssssshhh...

No words. Only tumblr chicks now. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I need a better outlet for this crazy shit I do.

[close]

[Rufus]

The worst of it has to be the constantly stoic, never talk about my past, delayed response to going to the doctor.

God damnit dad.

...

It DOES pay to be in control of your emotions though.

[Shadow Mod]

The worst of it has to be the constantly stoic, never talk about my past, delayed response to going to the doctor.

God damnit dad.

...

It DOES pay to be in control of your emotions though.

Until the bottle gets full.

[Rufus]

If filling it up and screwing it tight is what falls under 'control' for your old man, then yeah, I guess.

[Shadow Mod]

If filling it up and screwing it tight is what falls under 'control' for your old man, then yeah, I guess.

What falls under control for a lot of men raised like he was is not airing shit out as it happens, bottling it up, then exploding at some point in time. Or alcoholism. Rinse, repeat.

[Rufus]

If it's traumatic stuff, sure, but what I'm talking about is the just the usual things life heaps on all of us. Frustration, angst, fear, etc. I don't know if I would quietly deal with and work through everything life can throw at us, but so far it's going OK.   

[Skidmark]

The real issues aren't what either of those YT's address. Both feel sort of trite with their viewpoints. Expectations of the male in society do not leave a lot of options for men, and it's not like the negative view of masculinity portrayed in those videos is the sole property of young men. That "pathological masculinity" inhabits women as well and is a part of the culture of success.

The one thing I'd agree with would be that "problem talks" as referred to in the second video do not scare me or bother me as much as they have proved to be worthless and unproductive. The people who want the male to have a "problem talk" tend to want it for their own gain since the male often gets nothing out of it. In a sadistic way, it's the side pushing for the talk wanting to see the "injured male" that is an image that is often sexualized in our society. The male himself gets nothing out of it.

I respect what you are saying but I have a hard time seeing how extending support to boys is a fetish by feminists to see men become weak. We are all weak and need closure, empathy, relationships and understanding. This is about being allowed to ask for help when you need help as a boy or a man. People deal with problems differently, not all men are alike and I personally get comfort from being able to talk about my difficulties with a partner or a psychologist.

[Skidmark]

I never saw anything wrong with a man sharing his feels and all, but I also never felt pressure to be ultra macho. I am what would be considered masculine for the most part. I work on cars, I go to the gym, I play sports, I've been the captain of my soccer and basketball team growing up, I know how to fight, I was the oldest so I'm the one who took over responsibilities whenever either of my parents were in a position where they couldn't. While I don't like to share my emotions with anyone unless I know them very well, I don't have a problem telling a guy friend I love him or expressing what I think about something. I also love art and painting, I cook and clean and love both. I've babysat for the endless amounts of cousins I've had before.

Honestly, the typical macho stereotype(ultra competitive, dismissive, etc.) is usually traits you find in a jackass. Yeah, I'm a man who can do manly shit. That doesn't mean that's all I do or all I am. Some guys are soft, that's the way they are and I never picked on someone for that cause it's idiotic.

I do use the words taco, distinguished mentally-challenged fellow and what have you mostly cause I'm a "Words are just words" kind of guy. I'd be the first to apologize if I do offend anyone at the same time.

I have had a similar upbringing, I am curious to know this: In your relationships and friendships do you tend to put your needs on the side and make room for other peoples needs when work needs to be done in your relationships and friendships? Like let us say your girl is not happy with the state of things, do you immediately focus on giving her what she needs so that she can feel better again? like you show her understanding, give her space, don't bother her, help her with her problems, come up with solutions for her difficulties and your needs are put on hold until everything is back to normal? Also, are you somewhat sensitive to criticism in the way that you easily interpret normal closure and dialog as an attack on you and start defending yourself instead of just listening?

I also want to say that here in Sweden a lot of girls work on cars, go to the gym, play sports, know how to fight are competitive and adventurous, my girlfriend is actually a welder. I just think that people should be able to do whatever they enjoy and get the same kind of help and understanding whether they are male or female.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I do what I want. World should let women do likewise. Masculine feminine can gtfo. Also, awesome that windows autocorrect suggested "gtfo".

[chronovore]

that video is my defense mechanism against sharing my feelings  :'(

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[close]

[chronovore]

I'm a fan & supporter of Borian Masculinity.
(Image removed from quote.)

I'm going to get a tattoo of this. Across my whole back. Or maybe just a tramp stamp.

[ToxicAdam]

Lets reclassify the world into two categories, weak-ass bitches and everyone else.

[Shaka Khan]

Yeah, I do see it as an issue breeding a host of problems for kids in their formative years, and sometimes hardwiring them in ill ways that take years and lots of money to reverse. One ironic thing I've experienced is growing up under the pressure of "being a man", then two decades later finding myself immersed in a subculture that sometimes peer-pressures evoking femininity... I find both situations equally tiring and wasteful.

As obvious as it is, the key has always been "being true to yourself." And that simply involves reflecting how you feel, internally, externally without misrepresentations or exaggerations. The closer both sides are, the more in sync they become, the more "comfortable you are in your own skin." And personally, that's the goal I've always sought.

I'm a fan & supporter of Borian Masculinity.
(Image removed from quote.)

That's a future Christmas card of me and Biz.