FFX/2 Remaster - Relive your teen years again, unfortunately

[Himu]

SRIV Sold that game, didn't even bother getting past the 10 hour mark. Rushed out C game.

[Trent Dole]

SRIV is awesome. It's an expansion pack masquerading as a properly numbered sequel in the franchise, but it's still a good time.

[Human Snorenado]

SRIV Sold that game, didn't even bother getting past the 10 hour mark. Rushed out C game.

...and this is why, ultimately, I'll always think you have shit taste in games. You want a BLITZBALL game but SR IV is mediocre.

[Himu]

I'll take this to the SRIV thread.

[Himu]

Well, I got 20 bucks for SRIV which went towards FFX HD so in a way it is a relevant topic. SRIV side quest content has less variety and polish that blitzball.

[SantaC]

blitzball isnt so bad if you compare it to some other worthless minigames in the series. That card game in FF9 was absolutely shit.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Card game in FF9 is my fave minigame ever (and >> the FF8 one, for the record) so you can zip it

[Himu]

Triple triad worse than tetra master?!?!

[recursivelyenumerable]

Triple triad had little in the way of interesting tactics, and having good cards made winning inevitable. They tried to address that with house rules but while the concept/metagame of house rules was really cool, the actual rules were mostly a drag to play with (same/plus made the game an exercise in just iterating through all the possible plays and running an IsSame predicate routine on them in your head, which is something a computer and not me should be doing).

I like Tetra Master because the arrows make it possible for positions to develop in a more interesting way, the "dice rolls" and reversals mean you have to make moves considering the ramifications of both success and failure, and even with good cards you're not guaranteed victory, but skillful play can increase your chances.

[Himu]

What I played of TM was random compared to TT. Maybe I was playing it like TT but I never "got" TM.

[magus]

What I played of TM was random compared to TT. Maybe I was playing it like TT but I never "got" TM.

tetra master has rules and once you understand them it's really not much different than playing triple triad but there is still a random element involved and the game is all like "rules? no way i'm bothering explaining them " so the end result is that the whole thing feels completly random and pointless unless you read a faq

the gist is that each card has 3 number and a letter printed on it, one number represent physical defense,one number represent magical defense and one number represent attack... the letter represent which kind of attack the card does... P for physical,M for magical then something stupid like X which pick the lowest defense and something even more stupid like i think it was W which pick the lowest number on the card... so basicaly if you focus on always hitting the lowest defense with your highest attack your chance of winning improve a lot but of course to do that you have to realize there are thing like attack and defense in the first place!
 

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yeah, FF8's game does have the advantage of being a lot easier to understand (even if FF9 did explain its rules in an obvious place in-game which it doesn't, they are just inherently less straightforward), but FF9 is more interesting and fun once you understand it imo

[Himu]

The forced Tetra Master contest was and still is, the bane of my existence. Let's force players to participate in a mini game without fully explaining the rules, hyuk.

[Himu]

I like mini games. Fishing mini games especially can be fun. Mini games in jrpgs are pretty much dead unless it's Tales tho.

[recursivelyenumerable]

At the conceptual level I liked the card games because they added another dimension to town exploration and NPCs, which have always been an important part of the RPG experience but have rarely had any real gameplay substance (and the adventure game / information collection purpose they used to serve has over time tended to be less and less important).

In general I think a lot of people are attracted to RPGs for the gestalt of a world-spanning adventure and not just for the standard core content of "story plus combat". So minigames can be good if they help animate some element of the adventure, whether it's the setting or a location, character, item, some aspect of the theme or premise, or whatever. Minigames that are just there to have minigames (like the ones in FF7 IMO) are pretty pointless though.

[Himu]

RGG/Yakuza is still sick with them.  The mini-games seem to get more dev attention than the combat.

The best case scenario for mini-games for me is that they're not mandatory and horrible.  Wow, let's play some subpar fishing game instead of the stuff I bought the game for, aka the RPG.

Again, imagine if to move on to the next race in Gran Turismo you had to play an inning of a crappy baseball game.  Or if you had to play a horrible Hang-On knock-off in the middle of Bayonetta.

I like rpgs for variety in things to do. If all rpgs had were just story content, they'd be boring. I like side content. I'm not the type of player to just go and beat an rpg and concentrate on the story. I like exploring and getting involved with the world. Mini games help me do that. Also your comparisons aren't 1:1 because games like Bayonetta aren't rpgs. Rpgs, as in role playing games, are big with mini games because the genre allows it. Rpgs are about world building and exploration, as much as they are about stats and grindan. Mini games allow them to do this, while expanding upon their own world and story at the same time.

Now, I'm not saying rpgs need shit like the crappy race in Chrono Trigger or the stupid snowboarding in FF7, but mini games can be fun and involving while at the same time enhancing the actual rpg gameplay and npc/world interaction. (Chocobo Hot and Cold, Triple Triad).

[Himu]

Anyways, I'm at the Calm Lands.

Macalania scene is a bloo bloo wahhhhhhhh

[Human Snorenado]

The only mini-game I ever liked was pazaac in KotR. All jrpg mini-games are shit.

[Himu]

There was a time when RPG mechanics were enough for an RPG.  But RPGs have been suffering from envy of other genres and media for a really long time now, I guess.  Enough that you think stopping to play a crappy fishing game in the middle of math battles is somehow natural and welcome while still recognizing a crappy motorcycle segment has no place in a melee action game.

le sigh

I wouldn't really call it genre envy at all. But more that it just gives players more to do and more to do equates more time spent on that game. How long an rpg is has always been a heavily adveetised feature.

You just want to play the game and do battles. That's fine. Rpgs are more than battles to me though. More than that, you have plenty of options for rpgs with no mini games. I even said mini games are rare now in jrpgs. They are mostly a relic of the late 90s and 00s. Games like FF12 and 13 are prominent for peoples criticisms that they don't have mini games. Mini games mostly show up in story based romps like 3d FFs and and stuff like Suikoden. You can avoid these easily by playing Tri Ace and Atlus titles rather than wishing for homogeny is a very diverse genre.

I appreciate both styles though and can play and appreciate mini games while also enjoying a dungeon crawler and battle focused RPG.

Less variety is boring. Why want less variety?

[Himu]

In any case, I really only mind mini games in jrpgs if they're truly bad like Pazak in KOTOR or chocobo racing in FFX or that crappy pod race mini game you have to win in KOTOR.

[nachobro]

I found the 200 lighting bolts less annoying than the chocobo race thing where you had to get a time of 0.0. One of only two times I've broken a controller. 

[Himu]

How about dodging lightning 200 times?

Shit and more shit. I've never done it before. Figured since I've never done it, might as well try it.

[Himu]

Ive never played an RPG mini game I like more than the main game. But I don't think they're trying to be better than the main game. They're distractions that act as expanded npc interaction so I like them in that way. I think Chocobo Hot N Cold are fun diversions that enhance game content. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Himu]

Well, yeah. They can.

My big problem is when mini games are actively awful. Since this is the FFX thread we can use FFX as a prime example. Almost all of the sidequests in the game are garbage tier and it's one of the prime reasons I don't rank it high in my favorite FF's despite loving it to pieces. I admit I like Blitzball, but mostly for nostalgia reasons. I have never been able to handle stuff like chocobo racing, lightning dodging, butterflies and all that shit. I prefer explorative and battle-based quests. FF5, 6, 8, X-2, and 12 are my favorite FF's not only because of their battle systems or customization, but their dungeoon exploration (Via Infinito, Fanatics tower), exploration-based sidequests (gaining summons in FF5 and 8 ), and unlocking secrets and cool shit through battle.

I'm pretty positive FF12's lack of mini games and diversions and odd jobs is because of the fan response to 10's shit end game.

Unfortunately not everything is Shenmue Darts.

It's not that I dislike focused games. I am a fan of many of them. It's just something about exploring a game world that checks something off in my brain. I admit that exploring is as important to me - probably more important, in some cases - than battles in rpgs for me. It's how I can enjoy stuff like Skyrim. Something about just kicks me in my imagination sector of my brain.

[Himu]

Did the same shit except for blitzball. Made my party really underpowered. This time I'm going to grit my teeth.

[ZephyrFate]

Triple Triad is pretty shitty especially when it comes to abolishing rules through RNG bullshit.

The best minigames in the series were Chocobo Hot'n'Cold in FFIX, and Chronobind in the FFXIII-2 DLC. Legitimate fun.

[Himu]

it didn't

[demi]

Decided to dip my tip into the intro, even though I'd like to finish some stuff up first... looks great. FFX is a nice leisure stroll. I find it very replayable.

[recursivelyenumerable]

IIRC Xenogears has some kind of slap-jack-ish reflex card game you can play, but it's not really extensive and I think you only have to play it either zero times or one time in the story. And I remember having fun with it.

There's also a mini-fighting-game with the gears that was pretty bad judged as a standalone game, but still neat just for the chance to play with direct action control of the gears.

[Himu]

Chocobo racing.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Ah here it is.

I love how dramatic it all is.  IIRC this is one of the few times in the game other than the early and late scenes you ever hear the character voices, too.

[tiesto]

I don't mind optional minigames. Keyword OPTIONAL... And as for minigames being more fun than the main game, I liked Triple Triad more than FF8

Other minigames I liked:
-the Xenogears mech combat
-Digital Devil Saga 2 shmup
-Hang On/Space Harrier in Shenmue
-Stage 1 of Gradius in Legend of the Mystical Ninja
-FF7 motorcycle chase

Minigames I hated:
-Blitzball
-Jade Empire crappy shmup
-Kingdom Hearts gummy ship
-

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yeah, the motorcycle chase is another case of a good use of a minigame. It's not much of a game on its own, but it's mindless simple fun without a lot of bullshit, it has some sweet catchy tunes, and in context it works well as part of the fantastic overall sequence that caps off the Midgar part of the game (story revelations -> boss fight -> FMV -> minigame -> boss fight -> denouement.)



I loved the feel of this last (or is it almost last?) scene when you're saying goodbye to Midgar.

[Himu]

Best score in chocobo racing is 9.6. Could get 0.0 if only could get more balloons.

[Himu]

1.5?!?!?!?!? KILL MEEEEEEE

[Himu]

-Hang On/Space Harrier in Shenmue

GOAT.

[ToxicAdam]

This thread is doing a good job of lowering my opinions I had on FFX.

[Purple Filth]

Hows the Vita version i wonder?

[Himu]

I FUCKING DID IT

0.0

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[Himu]

[archnemesis]

Hows the Vita version i wonder?

"[...]Final Fantasy X looks and plays fantastically on Vita. I've seen no frame rate issues or any other graphical problems. "

"I make no bones about preferring portable gaming, so the Vita was the clear choice for me. Final Fantasy X|X-2 HD is wonderful to play on the go and all the new content makes it feel fresh. I can say that I don't think I'd still be playing on PS3. The lack of a suspend function and unskippable cutscenes that can't even be paused show that this game isn't completely new, but just an older game with a lovely new coat of paint. On Vita, though, it feels like an impressive achievement, so I'm so happy to get to play these games again there. " - RPGamer

This convinced me to pick up the Vita versions once I'm done with my current batch of new games.

[Rahxephon91]

At this point I may just want a Vita to play FFX and a non terrible version of MGS3 on the go. Shame that ZoE2 Vita version didn't happen. Might as well get Ys and Baby Jrpg 2 as well.

[nachobro]

I FUCKING DID IT

0.0

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Nice! I haven't hit Calm Lands yet (at Macalania atm) but I'm not sure if I'm gonna go for it for the trophy or say "fuck it" and keep my sanity.

[Himu]

This is the best video for helping.



Tips:

1. don't try to pass her at first. If there's balloons all on the left side of cliff, you lost. If there's balloons all on the right side of the cliff, you can win it more easily. Don't try to pass her, until you grab the ballons on the right, because if you do, she'll push you and you'll be behind her. Always try to stay in the lead.

2. HAVE THE LEAD AS YOU GO AROUND THE CLIFF.

3. Try to hit as many balloons coming out of the cliff turn as possible without getting hit.

4. This is where you start dodging birds. Hold the d-pad right to avoid them. You need wide girth to avoid because the game is distinguished mentally-challenged and makes the shadow on the right an invisible border, so if you're trying to avoid them and you have no more room, you'll get hit.

5. Weave in and collect more balloons, then hold right.

6. You're going to make another turn, make sure nothing hits you out of fucking nowhere, so make the on the edge of the shadow.

7. Going straight, start on the right side, here you're going to be dodging birds as you go to the LEFT. 

8. Pick up as many balloons as you can.

9. Pray you picked up at least 13-14 balloons.

10. Get to the finish line at about 35-36 seconds.

It's all luck because the game places balloons in a very random manner each and every fucking time. So sometmes, you'll get there at 35 seconds and still have only 9 balloons and even with zero hits, you can't get 0.0 with that.

Whoever designed this should be fired and they are a bloody masochist.

[nachobro]

  And that's why I prefer the lightning. At least that is mostly consistent. Just gotta hit X at the right time.

Maybe I'll just save it until I get the airship. That's when I usually do all the Ultimate Weapon stuff. Gonna skip Wakka's on this playthrough though. I'd rather just beat this one and move on to X-2 than do a whole blitzball season.

[Himu]

I'm saving lightning dodging for when I have no encounters ability.

Ummmmmmmmmm, any tips on butterflies?

[nachobro]

Save it for No Encounters as well (same for the Rikku/Cactuar thing). Other than that it's pretty simple, just watch the weird camera angles or you'll hit the red butterflies. It's purposely designed to be as deceptive as possible haha.

Here's a nice map that lets you know how to do it cause the camera angles on some of that can be so weird: http://www.uffsite.net/ff10/butterfly.php

[Himu]

I'm going to get Nirvana next session.

FFX is the most grindy FF ever. Seriously.

When I first played FFX, I fully leveled up Nirvana. It was the only weapon I did that with. I just read the requirements and it requires you to capture ALL the monsters from Calm Lands AND Gagazet. Holy shit, 16 year old me!  I did that?!?!?! All I remember is beating Belgemine and then getting the Magus Sisters.

I do gotta say though, to my memory, the end of FFX has amazing boss fights. Magus Sisters 

[nachobro]

I thought Auron's was the monster capture one. IIRC for Nirvana you have to beat all of the summoner lady's aeons (inc Yojimbo, Anima, and Magus Sisters). Which means you need to recruit them too, of course.

EDIT: Nevermind you're right. Need the Calm Lands dudes for the actual weapon and the Gagazet for the Sisters. Forgot about that too I guess, haha.

I remember just capturing every monster in the game that you could back in the day. It's kinda worth it for the items you get. Can make some real sweet weapon/armor customizations with those.

[Himu]

On replays of FFX I've always ignored this stuff. But this time I'm gonna go all out.

Iirc I leveled up Wakka and Aurons in the original too.

[nachobro]

I always did the easy weapons on replays: Auron, Kimhari, Yuna, and Rikku. For everyone else I just customized a weapon that was just as good (double/triple overdrive, +magic/strength, counterattacks, one mp cost), but without the ultimate weapon extra benefits.

[Himu]

Remember if when you finish capturing all monsters at a location if the game tells you if you did or not?

[nachobro]

It does not. I usually keep a checklist handy when capturing.

http://auronlu.istad.org/squidoo/ffx-secrets/monster-arena-checklist.html

[SantaC]

I am debating with myself if i should pick up X and X-2 remaster or give FFXII international edition a go.

[Himu]

It does not. I usually keep a checklist handy when capturing.

http://auronlu.istad.org/squidoo/ffx-secrets/monster-arena-checklist.html

Ten Malboros. How did 16 year old me do this shit?

Malboros apparently have 27k hp.

Goddamit, fuck me. Tidus can hit for 3k per hit but this is a Malboro we're talking about there. I'm guessing Aeons are the best way to capture Malboros.

[Himu]

Oh, you just need to capture one of all enemies of the Calm lands for the Nirvana. You don't need to actually get 10 of each monster there.

10 of each monster is exclusively for Nemesis.

Were Malboros even IN FF13? Apparently not. Worst 3d FF confirmed. Malboros have a long standing tradition going as far as FF6. FF13

[SantaC]

Oh, you just need to capture one of all enemies of the Calm lands for the Nirvana. You don't need to actually get 10 of each monster there.

10 of each monster is exclusively for Nemesis. (Image removed from quote.)

Were Malboros even IN FF13? Apparently not. Worst 3d FF confirmed. Malboros have a long standing tradition going as far as FF6. FF13

no Malboros in FF13, but it got Ochu.

[Himu]

I never found Ochu's as iconic as Malboros.

[recursivelyenumerable]

They go back all the way to FF1 though where they were the memorable OCHO and NAOCHO. (which as a kid I always imagined were a reference to having eight/nine? tentacles or something, but nope).

Although apparently like most of FF1's monster concepts they were ripped from a D&D bestiary (otyugh), while Malboro is original to FF. Even so Malboro is only really memorable for its obnoxious status effects and its righteous original FFVI localization as "Mad Oscar"
 

[Himu]

I know they go back to FF1 but they weren't consistent in entries until 6. 6-12 have Malboros.