VR Thread

[Pringo]

So allegedly there are going to be a couple of VR headset announcements today and tomorrow (Sony PS4 VR headset and Oculus Rift DK2).  You guys excited at all? I think I'm going to order the Oculus DK2 if the price is reasonable.

[cool breeze]

definitely excited for the oculus rift and quality VR in general.

the sony/playstation one, uh, I want to be optimistic but there's a history of half-baked playstation peripherals and endeavors with meager support.  like that year when a bunch of ps3 games had 3D and then they went "no one wants 3D TVs" and stopped.  so that, and PS4 games are mostly hitting 1080p 30fps in 2D.  otoh the rumors are that sony's headset is quality, and if you could use that headset on PC, that could be interesting.

and apparently microsoft wants in too? I only read the thread titles this morning

[Great Rumbler]

Oculus Rift with Valve backing is a pretty exciting prospect.

[CatsCatsCats]

I want to believe that it'll finally be here. Only way I'd ever play an MMO again would be if it were full VR.

[Cerveza mas fina]

VR is the only thing that excites me gaming wise, if its not happening I will continue to buy budget stuff on sale, only VR warrants top dollar.

[headwalk]

VR terrifies my usually pretty humble hardware purchasing habits. it's going to take a maxwell card to really get a decent experience given the ever increasing demands (what are we at, 1400p+120hz now to achieve "persistence"?).

the idea of people plugging these things into their playstations gives me a vicarious brain tumour.

[headwalk]

VR terrifies my usually pretty humble hardware purchasing habits. it's going to take a maxwell card to really get a decent experience given the ever increasing demands (what are we at now, 1400p+120hz to achieve "persistence"?).

the idea of people plugging these things into their playstations gives me a vicarious brain tumour.

i accidentally quoted myself.

take the time to read it again to really soak it all in.

[Stoney Mason]

Don't have any interest in any VR solution. I'm fine with playing on a monitor and a TV and viewing the world through that method without head gear.

But that's just me.

[Third]

I'm sure you'll like it once you've tried it out.

I tried out the Rift a few months ago and it was one of the most refreshing gaming experiences ever. Can't wait to own something like that myself.

[Stoney Mason]

 I doubt it. I think tech like this is interesting to some people for its immersion aspects but I've never had a problem with immersing myself in games the traditional way. And I can't say how much I detest the idea of wearing equipment on my head as I play a game.

I think VR will be a fun niche for a group of gamers that are really into it. I'm just not part of that group.

[Third]

That's like saying fuck real sex, I'd rather masturbate.

VR is the real shit. I'm sure it's going to be the future of gaming.

[Great Rumbler]

The trick is to make the headgear smaller and lighter to the point where it's hardly more physically obtrusive than wearing regular glasses. We're still a few years away from that, though.

[Himu]

Shenmue + VR please.

[Stoney Mason]

I'm sure it's going to be the future of gaming.

And I'm equally sure that won't be the case at all. We shall see.

[Eel O'Brian]

wear a Kinect on your face, brehs

[cool breeze]

The trick is to make the headgear smaller and lighter to the point where it's hardly more physically obtrusive than wearing regular glasses. We're still a few years away from that, though.

I think it's a ways off from being as comfortable as a pair of glasses.  but I know lots of people wear bulky headphones while playing games and it's closer to that.  then again, people whine more about 3d glasses than headphones.  either way, the benefits outweigh the slight discomfort.  ultimately VR is for when you can say 'fuck this world' and set aside two hours to play a video game. 

and yes, don't knock VR until you tried it.  I'm not saying it's for everyone, but whatever you're imaging it's like, it's probably better than that.  It's 3D + huge field of view + headtracking, together, and it feels natural.  I don't know about the future or w/e but I believe it'll be popular enough (on PC) to be supported and cool for enthusiasts.

[Eel O'Brian]

the bright side is these won't take up much closet space 3-6 months after purchase

[Vertigo]

This shit will all come down to price for me.

Hopefully Sony getting involved and MS rumoured to have their own VR thing will mean that prices will be realistic for consumers otherwise these things will remain niche objects.

They'll also remain Niche if they don't have at least two 'killer apps'.

[cool breeze]

apparently requires the playstation camera? there are four leds for positional tracking

[Pringo]

Well the Sony presentation is over. 1080p, 90 degree FOV, uses PS camera and Move (which I'm assuming is optional and will depend on the game). Looks like a Sony version of the Rift basically with added on motion controls. They announced EVE Valkyrie (weird as Oculus already announced that as an exclusive) and Thief has a VR demo although I'm not sure if that's going to be a final game or not. Pretty much everything else seems undecided at this point. I was originally assuming Q4 for the launch but now I'm not so sure.

[CatsCatsCats]

Who gives a fuck about the majority? I want to explore different enviornments and spacial concepts as entertainment. Rift looks like it can provide the experience of stepping into a different world, I want that and don't care if the Jones' do or not

[CatsCatsCats]

I mad. This was supposed to be reality decades ago. Where's my holodeck

[cool breeze]

thief was 1080p 30fps with frame rate problems, allegedly, it's maybe not the greatest demo for it.  but, again, I'm hoping this will work on PC and it's not limited to the ps4.  I'm surprised some parts of it seem better and more commercial than what oculus is doing.  like, simply putting a headphone jack on the device itself.  and I think it looks nice, although oddly doesn't share the same aesthetic quirks as the PS4 and its accessories.

Who gives a fuck about the majority? I want to explore different enviornments and spacial concepts as entertainment. Rift looks like it can provide the experience of stepping into a different world, I want that and don't care if the Jones' do or not

what's interesting from some of the slides I've seen posted was that they mentioned virtual tourism as a software type.  and they reiterated a lot of what oculus and valve talked about with adjusting games for VR.  so it's nice that they're expressing those ideas as their own.  having these companies on the same page only helps to make VR mature.

[Eel O'Brian]

What the fuck do I know, I bought a PlayStation Move.

[Huff]

you do seem to have the unfortunate habit of buying every new pos

[Eel O'Brian]

Hey, I skipped the Wii U!

[Pringo]

Who gives a fuck about the majority? I want to explore different enviornments and spacial concepts as entertainment. Rift looks like it can provide the experience of stepping into a different world, I want that and don't care if the Jones' do or not

It matters in the context of people actually developing software for these devices. If VR headsets only end up appealing to a small niche it will be hard to convince companies to develop for them. This is made even worse for VR games as you ideally want to develop them from the ground up rather than just port them over from existing systems, so you can't even really do cheap VR ports for the most part (well at least if you don't want the games to suck). That all being said I do think these devices have the potential for mainstream appeal depending on if everything goes well. We will just have to wait and see on that.

thief was 1080p 30fps with frame rate problems, allegedly, it's maybe not the greatest demo for it.  but, again, I'm hoping this will work on PC and it's not limited to the ps4.  I'm surprised some parts of it seem better and more commercial than what oculus is doing.  like, simply putting a headphone jack on the device itself.  and I think it looks nice, although oddly doesn't share the same aesthetic quirks as the PS4 and its accessories.

The Thief frame rate is a bit concerning, hopefully that's not a sign of things to come. I wouldn't bet on the Sony headset coming to PC (I don't think the PS4 camera is PC compatible for one) although I wouldn't be surprised either way. I don't know why you're surprised this looks more commercial than the DK1 considering that was a startup project made out of hacked together phone parts. The Oculus final model should look a lot more polished.

[AdmiralViscen]

Will buy if sub $200 and decent support

[cool breeze]

The Thief frame rate is a bit concerning, hopefully that's not a sign of things to come. I wouldn't bet on the Sony headset coming to PC (I don't think the PS4 camera is PC compatible for one) although I wouldn't be surprised either way. I don't know why you're surprised this looks more commercial than the DK1 considering that was a startup project made out of hacked together phone parts. The Oculus final model should look a lot more polished.

yeah, I'm interested to see what oculus will show tomorrow (??).  and commercial maybe wasn't right word.  what I meant was more that the design better considers how people would use it day to day.  the headphone jack, the more breathable visor, the mount, etc.  not so much the look of it.  oculus might be worrying about all that last and getting the tech where it needs to be.

[Damian79]

Will buy if sub $200 and decent support

WTF seriously?

[Damian79]

Do you mean including the camera too or just the vr headset?

[radioheadrule83]

I'm a believer in the tech, but I don't see it taking off during this coming gen unless something changes. In fact, any sub-par attempts to make it take off might actually kill it for a few years.

This won't be sub $200 imo. And releasing this as a peripheral would be a mistake too. It needs to be a full blooded attempt that gets packed in with machines or it won't get proper support to expand beyond the niche. Oculus should license theirs to other first/third parties as well if they want to remain the big name in this thing. Where Sony is concerned, I'll just say this: making something expensive is bad, making something expensive and proprietary is worse. The technical side of it all sounds fine, but its the finer practical and economic details that'll matter most.

[Pringo]

Oculus DK2. Looks like a slightly more polished Crystal Cove. $350.

[Pringo]

Some more specs:

DK2: 1080p, 75 Hz low persistance OLED

CV1: Higher than 1080p, 90+ Hz low persistance OLED (target specs)

It's starting to look like you're going to need a beastly PC to power the consumer model for high end games. Hopefully Broadwell and Maxwell will have launched by then.

[Steve Contra]

Hey, I skipped the Wii U!

Implying the Wii U is new tech

[cool breeze]

Calibrate PS4 VR expectations: a game that ran 60 fps on PS3 could be done in VR (stereo 1080 MSAA low latency 60 fps) on PS4.

Carmack truth

[Howard Alan Treesong]

That's like saying fuck real sex, I'd rather masturbate.

That's exactly the metaphor I'd use to describe VR.

"Fuck real sex, I'd rather masturbate." (straps on goggles)

[cool breeze]

from the impressions it sounds like: (valve's in-house project>) rift dk2 > sony morpheus > rift dk1.  sony mopheus is more comfortable and has limited body tracking with move.  but oculus will work on comfort for the consumer release, which is supposed to get another bump in resolution along with other improvements.

[benjipwns]

Sony is way too late, Sega says this is coming out by 1994 and it's a real thing not some lab prototype:


What does Sony even know about gaming? Yeah, like the company that puts out garbage like Hook, Cliffhanger, and Dracula is going to be the next level of gaming. 

[tiesto]

Surprised at all the VR things getting announced lately... I'll give it a shot but I have a feeling it's gonna lead to me getting big headaches.

[Pringo]

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/20vzid/massive_information_leak_regarding_sonys_vr/

Big info leak on the Sony VR set on Reddit. Throwaway account citing an anonymous source so take it with a large grain of salt. imo all the stuff in here is believable but it would be pretty easy to make up based on current rumours and the Sony presentation info.

tl;dr:

- $250-$299 (includes PS4 camera; Sony subsidizing the price)
- launch before the end of fiscal year 2014 (so before Mar 31, 2015)
- new The Last of Us, God of War, and Drive Club games being made for the VR platform
- Guerrilla Games and Sucker Punch now working on VR games
- working on non-game software as well (virtual tours, VR take on Home, entire VR interface)
- asymmetric multiplayer VR games (think Nintendoland but with VR instead of tablet controller)
- VR will potentially play a big part in the later years of the PS4; will be positioned as a separate platform from traditional PS4 games
- no PC support for Sony VR headset in the near future

[cool breeze]

some of those are true in that sony already talked about them, like the VR tours and treating VR as its own platform.  some we know aren't true, like the Driveclub mention.  so yeah, large grain of salt.

treating VR as its own platform is interesting, like how kinect games are handled but with more support on PC.  you'll have the standard hollywood 2D 30fps games because the are millions of xbones out there.  then you'll have less visually impressive VR games that can run 1080p 60fps 3D/VR on PS4 (see the carmack quote) and PC; with Valve's interest in VR I wouldn't be surprised if there's a dedicated VR store eventually.

the problem then is getting third parties on board with making games for a fraction of the audience.  if anything helps it's that VR games will be 360/PS3/WiiU-level.  I'd love it if EA made a smaller Medal of Honor WW2 VR game not meant to be a huge tent-pole release or anything.  plus it could be a way to keep supporting 360/PS3 for a few more years, although that might take away from fully embracing VR game design.

 

[Himu]

is there a demo of Sony's vr

[Pringo]

some we know aren't true, like the Driveclub mention.  so yeah, large grain of salt.

Wait, what is that based on? Did Sony comment on the Driveclub VR rumours or are you basing that off Driveclub not being at the presentation? For what it's worth I think the leak implied that Driveclub VR would be its own standalone game rather than a mode in the original ("Drive Club...being built into brand new VR experiences from the ground up").

the problem then is getting third parties on board with making games for a fraction of the audience.  if anything helps it's that VR games will be 360/PS3/WiiU-level.  I'd love it if EA made a smaller Medal of Honor WW2 VR game not meant to be a huge tent-pole release or anything.  plus it could be a way to keep supporting 360/PS3 for a few more years, although that might take away from fully embracing VR game design.

Yeah I agree getting third parties on board could be a big problem. I'm assuming the strategy for now is to go for big first party stuff and then get indies to make lower budget games for the initial wave of VR and hope enough people buy into the platform early on that it becomes viable for third parties to invest in it. As you said it also helps that the expectation for assets in VR is going to be lower.

[Pringo]

is there a demo of Sony's vr

Yeah at GDC.

Here's one demo impression: http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/19/project-morpheus-hands-on/

[Himu]

Oh. I was hoping for a video demonstration.

[Pringo]

Oh. I was hoping for a video demonstration.

There's a video in the link. What do you mean? I saw another one that showed the screen and the player at the same time but I can't remember what site that was.

[cool breeze]

some we know aren't true, like the Driveclub mention.  so yeah, large grain of salt.

Wait, what is that based on? Did Sony comment on the Driveclub VR rumours or are you basing that off Driveclub not being at the presentation? For what it's worth I think the leak implied that Driveclub VR would be its own standalone game rather than a mode in the original ("Drive Club...being built into brand new VR experiences from the ground up").

yeah, sony (yoshida?) came out and said that Driveclub won't support VR.  I mean, there could be a separate VR Driveclub game, but I don't think that makes sense at this point.  Sony has so much confidence in Driveclub to greenlight a sequel or spin-off despite the half-year to year long delay, unknown reception, and the studio's previous game's poor sales? even with its dwindling popularity, a gran turismo VR game would be a more believable rumor, especially when you already have the PS3 assets available.  I dunno.  If I had my way they'd release wipeout hd vr and jumping flash hd vr and sell a combined total of twelve units.

[fistfulofmetal]

I wonder if any of this stuff will be at PAX

[a slime appears]

I wonder if any of this stuff will be at PAX

I've heard stories about Sony showing it off but nothing concrete. I mean it's obviously a shoe-in for E3 but there are efforts to make some kind of splash. The big issue is having something substantial in time to demonstrate the value of VR to the unwashed masses. Developers get tech demos but your average GameStop stalking weaboo doesn't and if your presentation isn't pitch perfect then there could be problems.

It still is nowhere near the quality of Rift DK2 though. I mean Oculus Rift killed it at GDC.

[cool breeze]

Facebook bought oculus

[Great Rumbler]

[Stoney Mason]

I can't wait for VR in Farmville!

[Huff]

More capital is always good.

Could turn this from a niche gaming product to something usable in real life. In like 10 years or so

[archie4208]

Is there any reason as to why this is bad outside of the kneejerk lol vr farmville xd?  Zuckerberg's statement clearly says that Oculus will operate independently from FB.

[Stoney Mason]

Is there any reason as to why this is bad outside of the kneejerk lol vr farmville xd?  Zuckerberg's statement clearly says that Oculus will operate independently from FB.

I don't really care one way or the other. But that's what every big corporation says before they swallow a smaller one. It's rare that it actually happens.

But occasionally it does. So good luck to them.

[Raban]

[archie4208]

Is there any reason as to why this is bad outside of the kneejerk lol vr farmville xd?  Zuckerberg's statement clearly says that Oculus will operate independently from FB.

I don't really care one way or the other. But that's what every big corporation says before they swallow a smaller one. It's rare that it actually happens.

But occasionally it does. So good luck to them.

I can see that, but Facebook will give then more exposure than they could have ever dreamed of.  Maybe I'm just bugged by the "oculus is dead save us sony" rhetoric floating around the internet.

[Stoney Mason]

Is there any reason as to why this is bad outside of the kneejerk lol vr farmville xd?  Zuckerberg's statement clearly says that Oculus will operate independently from FB.

I don't really care one way or the other. But that's what every big corporation says before they swallow a smaller one. It's rare that it actually happens.

But occasionally it does. So good luck to them.

I can see that, but Facebook will give then more exposure than they could have ever dreamed of.  Maybe I'm just bugged by the "oculus is dead save us sony" rhetoric floating around the internet.

Somebody asked my opinion and this is what I said.

I think it could go either way. I mean when somebody like Facebook is interested that means they probably have some mainstream ideas for applications of the device. Which is helpful in the sense of the technology taking off. It's like it gives it automatic credibility because facebook is involved. On the other hand Facebook might end up basterdizing the whole experience so much that it loses what is special about. On the whole I would say its a good thing for it though.

[Shaka Khan]

The Savior of core gaming from the clutches of social games and smartphones turned out to be the harbinger of death. Who woulda thunk it?