Is E-Sports the worst case of Gamer Overcompensation?

[etiolate]

I am struggling to think of something gamer related that compares. So many bads watching Twitch. So much need for acceptance and recognition from others. Almost pure overcompensation.

Discuss

[brob]

[Stoney Mason]

I'm not exactly sure who you are going after here. The people who watch or the people who participate? Like anything I'm sure there are some GAF people who take these things overboard but in general I've never really had an issue with e-sports.

[Great Rumbler]

don't care

[Raban]

not as bad as people who spend the vast majority of their posts shilling for a mediocre game like Guild Wars 2

[etiolate]

I'm not exactly sure who you are going after here. The people who watch or the people who participate? Like anything I'm sure there are some GAF people who take these things overboard but in general I've never really had an issue with e-sports.

I'd say both the participation and watching, but mostly the audience. Companies discovered just how profitable the nerd demo is and have been profiting off of it. One of the main ways to attract this demo seems to be to imply acceptance and legitimization. E-sports reeks the most heavily of this with regards to games.

Most of the big-sports games aren't that viscerally interesting. I can watch a fighting game tourny of fighting games I've never played and enjoy it. However, MOBAs are kind of dull to watch. I remember when ESPN somehow broadcasted a Magic The Gathering tournament. That was painful in the same way.

[Great Rumbler]

The Quake Live tournament at Quakecon is pretty fun to watch. That's all I got.

[Stoney Mason]

I'm not exactly sure who you are going after here. The people who watch or the people who participate? Like anything I'm sure there are some GAF people who take these things overboard but in general I've never really had an issue with e-sports.

I'd say both the participation and watching, but mostly the audience. Companies discovered just how profitable the nerd demo is and have been profiting off of it. One of the main ways to attract this demo seems to be to imply acceptance and legitimization. E-sports reeks the most heavily of this with regards to games.

Most of the big-sports games aren't that viscerally interesting. I can watch a fighting game tourny of fighting games I've never played and enjoy it. However, MOBAs are kind of dull to watch. I remember when ESPN somehow broadcasted a Magic The Gathering tournament. That was painful in the same way.

I think it mostly depends on if you are into that game or game type in the first place. But then the same goes for real life sports. I don't watch MOBA tournaments or RTS tournaments because I don't really like those kind of games. So the experience seems boring to me because I can't relate. But then the same could be said for sports in real life. I probably feel that same way about hockey.

[etiolate]

Even if I'm into the game type, I'm not into watching others play. Obviously, I play a lot of MMOs. I wouldn't ever want to watch others play the majority of the MMOs that I've played. It's really visually boring. It's not interesting as an audience member at all. Games are meant to be played to understood. Games as a passive medium mostly fails.

So that's why e-sports is so guilty of overcompensating. You want to hold a tourny for something? That's fine. That can be fun for the players. However, calling it something like e-sports? The amount of views it gets? Twitch's views?

It reeks of overcompensation.

[CajoleJuice]

STARCRAFT CHANGED MY LIFE

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/18/2571255/starcraft-changed-my-life

Edit: I mostly agree with everyone else in this thread, I just remembered this headline/article.

[Stoney Mason]

I don't really understand that. If thousands of people like watching people playing in DOTA or league of legends tournaments, I'm not really sure that says anything more than they like watching people play those tournaments.

They are doing it for a reason. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing unless a person is being overly obnoxious about it.

There are people who take real life sports so seriously they invented fantasy sports to pretend they are owners and general managers. I don't have a problem with that either, but that seems much closer to over-compensation than just watching a twitch stream.

[Joe Molotov]

I bought the The Internationals 2014 Compendium and I've been watching some of the qualifying matches. It's p. cool, I'm not sure where all this animosity is coming from, breh.

[Positive Touch]

i cant imagine its worse than taking a condescending attitude towards anything you dont like or agree with and using said attitude as justification for your own sad sense of superiority

[Phoenix Dark]

No

[Steve Contra]

I dunno, I mean there's psychotic fans of college sports teams that never played the sport, or went to the college.  I don't really see the problem with people watching super competitive versions of something that spend a good chunk of their time doing.  And really, let's not get too high and mighty here, we know how much time you spend playing mmos.

[Human Snorenado]

I dunno, I mean there's psychotic fans of college sports teams that never played the sport, or went to the college.  I don't really see the problem with people watching super competitive versions of something that spend a good chunk of their time doing.  And really, let's not get too high and mighty here, we know how much time you spend playing mmos.

Not just any mmo, either

[Phoenix Dark]

Isn't the point of most multiplayer games to compete against others? I don't see anything wrong with watching professional or amateur gamers play, where is the "overcompensation?"

I used to spend hours watching SC1 and SC2 pro play, it's very entertaining and there is a lot of strategy and skill involved. I don't know anything about MOBAs so I can't speak for them. FPS wise, I used to be in a somewhat notable Wolfenstein ET clan and loved competing against other clans.

I rarely (seriously) criticize people who are passionate about something, as long as it isn't My Little Pony. There are people who put their all into esports, and I really see no reason to criticize that. And I honestly see no point in criticizing the corporate nature of things. Sponsors help put on great tournaments. Sure there is some fuckery, but overall I think it's a good thing that money interests can help fly the best players in to play in tournaments.

Perhaps the best glimpse of the human side of esports - no sponsors, hype, or other stuff - is this:

[Kara]

Did someone say Magic: the Gathering on the Deuce?



The Great One

[etiolate]

I don't really understand that. If thousands of people like watching people playing in DOTA or league of legends tournaments, I'm not really sure that says anything more than they like watching people play those tournaments.

They are doing it for a reason. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing unless a person is being overly obnoxious about it.

There are people who take real life sports so seriously they invented fantasy sports to pretend they are owners and general managers. I don't have a problem with that either, but that seems much closer to over-compensation than just watching a twitch stream.

I just don't buy that they legit enjoy it. I think its a lot of ra-ra cheer ourselves on bs. 

Like I've said, I enjoy games, but I can step back and look at whether they have legit visceral appeal to a non-playing audience or even a playing audience.

[Steve Contra]

Competitive bass fishing is a multi-million dollar a year sport. 

[etiolate]

The question is whether its overcompensation, not how low the bar has been set.

[Yulwei]

I just think it's funny how the least competitive and skill-intensive genre became the head of e-sports, MOBAs. When it comes to that audience it does feel a little bit like overcompensation.

High level fighting game/arena shooter/SC2 play is really entertaining though. There is actual skill involved and they can be very fun to watch. I don't watch much but when I do it's always pretty fun.

[etiolate]

I have enjoyed fighting games and arena shooters. There's obvious skill and tactics there.

[Phoenix Dark]

I don't really understand that. If thousands of people like watching people playing in DOTA or league of legends tournaments, I'm not really sure that says anything more than they like watching people play those tournaments.

They are doing it for a reason. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing unless a person is being overly obnoxious about it.

There are people who take real life sports so seriously they invented fantasy sports to pretend they are owners and general managers. I don't have a problem with that either, but that seems much closer to over-compensation than just watching a twitch stream.

I just don't buy that they legit enjoy it. I think its a lot of ra-ra cheer ourselves on bs. 

Like I've said, I enjoy games, but I can step back and look at whether they have legit visceral appeal to a non-playing audience or even a playing audience.

But you literally have no way of knowing that for certain...

I've never attended a SC2 event, but I've had plenty of fun watching hundreds of matches solo or with my brothers. There have been times where we have cheered louder than we've ever cheered during a real sports event. I've stayed up until 4AM just to watch finals matches live.

It's something I geek out over and can discuss for hours, and I'd imagine DOTA fans can do the same. Again, I don't know anything about those games, haven't played or watched...but their fans are clearly passionate. I've heard it's not nearly as strategic as StarCraft though.

[Kara]

I just don't buy that they legit enjoy it. I think its a lot of ra-ra cheer ourselves on bs.

But you literally have no way of knowing that for certain...

Of course he doesn't, this is the Solipsism Syndrome |OT|.

[Great Rumbler]

[recursivelyenumerable]

whatevs

[Stoney Mason]

I just think it's funny how the least competitive and skill-intensive genre became the head of e-sports, MOBAs. When it comes to that audience it does feel a little bit like overcompensation.

High level fighting game/arena shooter/SC2 play is really entertaining though. There is actual skill involved and they can be very fun to watch. I don't watch much but when I do it's always pretty fun.

I have enjoyed fighting games and arena shooters. There's obvious skill and tactics there.

Not to diss but attitudes like these sound more like over-compensation than the people who just enjoy what they enjoy. What you are really saying is that you are special. And the things you like are better than the other things that other people like because of "reasons". Every game has skill and tactics. It's whether you enjoy the skill and tactics of a particular sport/game that determine whether you like it or the masses like it or whatever.

I get that the things I like I'm always going to like for "special" reasons that I deem special. It's the only real way you can discuss opinion based topics. I just don't understand this particular axe to grind. I don't like Transformers  movies. I probably think a lot of people who go watch those movies have bad taste. Or are overly effected by mass marketing. But I'm not sure I would label them as over-compensating. That's my problem. Not that you can't like e-sports. Or diss e-sports. Just seems like etiolate is a bit more serious about the topic than I think it really deserves. It's kids playing videogames at tournaments. I don't really understand the reflexive anger/dismissal towards it versus the million other things that are also phony or overblown about videogames.

[Steve Youngblood]

Most of the big-sports games aren't that viscerally interesting. I can watch a fighting game tourny of fighting games I've never played and enjoy it. However, MOBAs are kind of dull to watch. I remember when ESPN somehow broadcasted a Magic The Gathering tournament. That was painful in the same way.

I have enough self-awareness and shame in my hobbies to not embrace this kind of stuff to that level, so personally, I agree that Magic tourneys aren't something I want to watch. But then again, when it comes to games masquerading as sports, I would be remiss if I didn't note that back in the mid Aughts, I used to watch an asinine amount of poker on TV. Is it really that different?

[Stoney Mason]

Most of the big-sports games aren't that viscerally interesting. I can watch a fighting game tourny of fighting games I've never played and enjoy it. However, MOBAs are kind of dull to watch. I remember when ESPN somehow broadcasted a Magic The Gathering tournament. That was painful in the same way.

I have enough self-awareness and shame in my hobbies to not embrace this kind of stuff to that level, so personally, I agree that Magic tourneys aren't something I want to watch. But then again, when it comes to games masquerading as sports, I would be remiss if I didn't note that back in the mid Aughts, I used to watch an asinine amount of poker on TV. Is it really that different?

Or is it really that different from watching a NASCAR event i would argue. Yes the production values are better. Which does help a lot. But ultimately its 30 or 40 cars continually going around an oval. The people who are into Nascar are still into it for the spectacle, the tactics, the "excitement". I don't see any of that. But they do. It just so happens they belong to a larger niche of people who enjoy NASCAR. And what does it matter anyway. Are we judging the quality of a sport solely by the number of people watching. And therefore anything that has a lesser number is an "inferior" sport.

E-sports comes in waves in videogames. It gets big for awhile. Dies down. Gets big for awhile. Dies down. We are just on another wave because of twitch.

[Phoenix Dark]

Twitch+f2p, specifically DOTA. Something will eventually topple DOTA games, and whatever does that will be even bigger. Having watched the essential crash of SC2, I think the biggest lesson learned should be accessibility. While the complex, strategic nature of SC2 makes it perfect for professional play, it provides quite a barrier for casual players. Blizzard essentially asked people to buy a $60 game they'd probably get stumped in over and over. And unlike Brood War which had the casual friendly, super popular maps like Big Game Hunters there really wasn't anything similar in SC2.

Meanwhile LoL and DOTA2 are easy as fuck to play, and both Riot and Valve did a great job building esports awareness among their player bases by having in-game streams; meanwhile there were tons of new SC2 players who had no idea about the pro scene. Blizzard's take on esports basically revolves around pumping money into it, whereas Riot and Valve are more community based IMO (based on what I've seen/read).

I think esports is here to stay. The corporate side will rise and fall, as it has always done, but the player base for these f2p, accessible games will just keep growing until the next big f2p thing arrives.

[Yulwei]

I just think it's funny how the least competitive and skill-intensive genre became the head of e-sports, MOBAs. When it comes to that audience it does feel a little bit like overcompensation.

High level fighting game/arena shooter/SC2 play is really entertaining though. There is actual skill involved and they can be very fun to watch. I don't watch much but when I do it's always pretty fun.

I have enjoyed fighting games and arena shooters. There's obvious skill and tactics there.

Not to diss but attitudes like these sound more like over-compensation than the people who just enjoy what they enjoy. What you are really saying is that you are special. And the things you like are better than the other things that other people like because of "reasons". Every game has skill and tactics. It's whether you enjoy the skill and tactics of a particular sport/game that determine whether you like it or the masses like it or whatever.

I get that the things I like I'm always going to like for "special" reasons that I deem special. It's the only real way you can discuss opinion based topics. I just don't understand this particular axe to grind. I don't like Transformers  movies. I probably think a lot of people who go watch those movies have bad taste. Or are overly effected by mass marketing. But I'm not sure I would label them as over-compensating. That's my problem. Not that you can't like e-sports. Or diss e-sports. Just seems like etiolate is a bit more serious about the topic than I think it really deserves. It's kids playing videogames at tournaments. I don't really understand the reflexive anger/dismissal towards it versus the million other things that are also phony or overblown about videogames.

I've played all those genres extensively and know for a fact that fighting games and arena shooters in particular have a much higher skill requirement than MOBAs do. If I wanted to feel like a special snowflake I'd probably be repping the competitive bubble bobble scene instead of something which millions upon millions of people play like fighting games. My problem is more with the MOBAs themselves rather than the spectators.

[archie4208]

I have fun playing and watching Dota.   

[benjipwns]

The only real problem I have with E-Sports is the pervasive anti-Nintendo bias. Also, the fact that not all of us need to overcompensate for our short comings by blowing things up or destroying others, how about rewards for working together to build something that will last a lifetime? Like memories in The Sims or a great farm on FarmVille or memorable afternoon mastering a public domain tune in Wii Music or an enlightened walking city in SimCity. I think then culture will sit up and take notice of just how much soul and intrinsic meaning gaming can have.

[Yeti]

I think skill-based video game playing can be entertaining to watch. I prefer watching things like speed runs though. There was this really cool Goldeneye speed run I saw a while back where it was two guys sharing one controller, it was pretty neat how they had to work together and overcome some of the game's quirks to beat the speed run record.

[Takao]

don't worry etiolate, andrex's people will save you: http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/youtube-to-acquire-videogame-streaming-service-twitch-for-1-billion-sources-1201185204/

[etiolate]

panic threads for everyone!

[Stoney Mason]

Makes sense. Nobody uses youtube's live streaming.

[thisismyusername]

Makes sense. Nobody uses youtube's live streaming.

And soon no one will use Twitch's. Either because Googie will fuck it up by requiring their Social Network to be linked to it, or the quality nosedives like Youtubes has.

The only reason I use Youtube anymore is because everyone else uses it as a "one-stop" shop for video uploads and linking. If they didn't have that, I think Youtube would be dead.

[tiesto]

I'll watch fighting game, Smash Bros tournaments and retro game speedruns (especially TAS ones). All the other ones are just kinda

[Himu]

Google bought twitch?!?! Nooooo

[etiolate]

I think people are worried about the content flagging that plagued youtube happening on Twitch, but I have no legal expertise on that shit so don't know if thats a legit concern.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Hearthstone is pretty good on twitch