Game

[Cerveza mas fina]

Because TLOU 2 is in the works and TLOU just came out last year.

TLOU 2 will be 2016.

[magus]

How can a sequel for TLOU work anyway?

It's almost destined to be fucked.

Do a prequel duh!

[Cerveza mas fina]

or set it in a different place with different characters, events running parallel?

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

aren't Zelda games open world already?  Did I miss the memo on what constitutes that sort of thing officially.

[cool breeze]

I dunno.  some might say Zelda has a hub world for the various levels instead of a true open world.  wind waker is probably the closest to an open world in a zelda game.

sort of unrelated, but I wish Zelda dungeons would be inspired by deus ex/dishonored style games.  I misunderstood what aonuma was saying during the zelda bit and imaged he was saying: dungeons have multiple approaches, items aren't keys but tools, and it's truly nonlinear.  link between worlds let you play dungeons out of order but you still needed certain items for certain dungeons.

[TakingBackSunday]

aren't Zelda games open world already?  Did I miss the memo on what constitutes that sort of thing officially.

They're open world-ish.  Technically the entire map is available to explore, but the players usually can't access certain parts because their inventory/powers don't allow it quite yet.

Twilight Princess was the most frustrating with this -- the only thing they could think up to block players out of sections was OOOOO THERE'S TWILIGHT HERE

[Himu]

Zelda is not open-world to me. But I can see why people think it is.

[TakingBackSunday]

There's a difference between Zelda open world, and Skyrim open world.  I think Aonuma is trying to make this Zelda more like Skyrim open-world.

[Tasty]

The similarities to Skyrim are probably going to start and end on "see that mountain? you can go there!" And dungeons you can do in any order, which was already started in Link Between Worlds.

The rest will be standard Zelda shit, book it. Emphasis on story, limited customization, dungeon items, mute Link, handful of sidequests.

[Himu]

Really as much as I trolled the Skyrim comparison seems strange.  This gonna have real physics? An economy? Small bite sized dungeons based on lore rather than theme (light wurld dark wurld)? Randomized loot? Crafting? Leveling? Customizable playable character? Real dialogue?

looking more like SotC from here.

SotC is empty as shit, event that's a bad comparison, as Zelda's not even that empty. SotC also didn't have any dungeons at all. Or npcs. Barely dialogue. Was more linear than any Zelda ever, had less customization. Just boss fights and killing lizards for more health.

I'd rather they use Zelda 1 as a blueprint than Skyrim or SotC. Players should be able to free form and do things in any order. There shouldn't be emphasis on items - though there will - and exploration should be the most important asset.

[Himu]

SotC strives for realism while having gloomy and dark art direction and has an overcast stormy world with old, forgotten, abandoned architecture. Zelda U has bloom lighting, cel shaded, overly saturated hues.

[Himu]

The stone work, sure. But Skyrim also has dwarven stuff. And that reminds me of those stone machines more than anything in SotC.

Since Aonuma said he he has been obsessed with Skyrim I predict it'll be a big inspiration.

Shame the new game isn't first person.

[Tasty]

First person Zelda

[TakingBackSunday]

sotc realistic

first person zelda

[Tasty]

I want what Himu's on cause it sounds like some guuuud shit.

[Himu]

sotc realistic

first person zelda

SotC has a far more realistic art style than any Zelda. Its physics, as well. SotC strived for more realism than any Zelda, before or after. That doesn't mean it's completely realistic, but compare that SotC shot Esch posted, to any 2d or 3d Zelda, and you'll see what I'm talking about. There's a very clear realistic yet fantastical direction that is absent in Zelda's highly anime stylized art.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that you're fucking blind.

As for first person Zelda, I'm down for something new. Even with the supposedly "open-world" feel of this game, who wants to bet there will be z-targeting, and all this other stuff we've been doing in Zelda since 1998? *raises hand*

[Tasty]

Z-targeting is way better than first person sword combat. Like, there's not much Nintendo could do to outright ruin Zelda in my opinion, but first person perspective is near the top of that short list.

First person would also severely limit the puzzles, which is what Zelda is really about anyways when you get down to it.

[Himu]

First person would not severely limit the puzzles. If anything, it would create a new way to do the puzzles. The other option is to do 3d Zelda the same way it's been done since 1998.

Z-targeting is antiquated and has been since 2001 when Devil May Cry was released. Also, your argument basically says that combat in 3d Zelda is fine. Combat in 3d Zelda is AWFUL. First person combat would be a tremendous step up. Keep fucking that chicken.

[Tasty]

Old = bad

[Himu]

I didn't say that at all. But z-targeting does Zelda no favors in 2014, much like how the old camera system was done away in Mario Galaxy and it benefited tremendously.

[Himu]

FIRST PERSON ZELDA. DO IT.

Man now I wanna reinstall VTMB.

[Tasty]

I didn't say that at all. But z-targeting does Zelda no favors in 2014, much like how the old camera system was done away in Mario Galaxy and it benefited tremendously.

What do you mean? The camera system in SMG was a limitation of not having a second analog, and it was actually one of the game's few (minor) flaws IMO. It wasn't noticeable usually because they actually put a lot of work into the auto-camera system, where as they were lazy with it in Sunshine.

And z-targeting is still plenty fun to me, I really don't know why you're knocking it. Plays great and is functional.

Also, to go back to the puzzles, they would absolutely be limited by a first-person perspective. I'm thinking of all my favorite Zelda dungeons and all of them would be far less fun, or even impossible, to do if you were stuck in first person the entire time. You need a third-person perspective for most of them. Changing to first person on a whim "just to keep things fresh" would be like having Super Mario Galaxy 3 with Captain Toad gameplay. Yeah, it's "fresh" and "different" but it changes a core aspect of the series' gameplay. No thanks.

Put that shit in a Sheik spinoff.

[a slime appears]

The original idea for Ocarina of Time was to be in first person.

 

[Himu]

Not to mention, slime, most of Ocarina and Majora's Mask's best puzzles were in first person due to hook shot and bow.

More than a few boss fights in those games, such as the Phantom Ganon boss fight, are practically in first person, for this reason.



Nintendo diehards latching onto the oldest shit. SMH.

[Tasty]

The original idea for Ocarina of Time was to be in first person.

 

And they rightly decided that was a stupid fucking idea and changed it.

Bad ideas don't suddenly become good 16 years later.

[Himu]

The link explicitly says they didn't use it because it was hard on the N64 hardware, not because it was creatively unfeasible. A lot of the puzzles in Ocarina, especially, feel like they were made in first person in mind.

[Tasty]

The series has evolved as a third person game. Regressing to first person would not be the way to go IMO.

[Himu]

Miyamoto wanted exploration to be in first person and then when combat happens, it switches to third person.

First person is not a regression. It is just different.

[Tasty]

I just don't feel series need to change for the sake of change. I guess that sums up my feelings on Nintendo, but there's so many more areas for improvement where as a perspective shift would be a sideways step at best.

[Himu]

In the Wind Waker first person Occulus Rift video, combat for instance, is a clear progression as it's more intense and in your face despite not even being tailor made for first person.

[Himu]

I just don't feel series need to change for the sake of change. I guess that sums up my feelings on Nintendo, but there's so many more areas for improvement where as a perspective shift would be a sideways step at best.

Change for the sake of change? Andrex, Zelda is a creatively stagnant franchise. At this point, it needs change for the sake of change.

[TakingBackSunday]

I wouldn't say its creatively stagnant...creatively challenged perhaps.  The team will try a bunch of new things with one facet of the gameplay and sacrifice quality of other facets.  Skyward Sword is a prime example of this.

[Tasty]

I completely and utterly disagree. Despite it being a pretty terrible Zelda game, Skyward Sword showed a couple different areas of gameplay that the Zelda series can evolve to without resorting to something as gimmicky and unnecessary as a perspective shift.

I don't see people clamoring for a first person Mario and it is my opinion that it's similarly unneeded in Zelda.

[a slime appears]

The original idea for Super Mario 64 was to be in first person.

 

[Himu]

First person Mario is a horrible comparison. Mario's issues are totally different than Zelda's.

[Tasty]

They're both long running franchises, and somehow Mario finds a way to keep things fresh despite not changing perspectives and having the same basic gameplay from game to game.

It's not an analogy I'd want to take much further, but it's meant to illustrate that just changing perspectives wouldn't really fix any problems outside of initial "OMG it's so different and fresh WOWEE!"

There are others gameplay issues and potential for meaningful, actual change in the series that simply changing perspectives would lack.

[Himu]

Changing perspective would give them more reason to switch up their puzzle structure as well as possibly give a wider emphasis on exploration and questing for obvious reasons. A big problem with recent Zelda's is that it's basically the same type of puzzle we've been doing since Ocarina. First person would be them more reason to change this. First person could also possibly fix the crappy, predictable combat problem.

The reality is that you're so against it because you reject change. Zelda has been in third person since 1998. What could it possibly do now that's unique that players want it to be? Sure, there are other gameplay issues. But these gameplay issues could be fixed with a change of perspective and injection of new and different goals into the series.

[Steve Contra]

Zelda's main game hook is game structure related, where as Mario's is gameplay related.  Hence why one has been able to be fresh and the other has been boring as sin.

[Tasty]

Finally someone with some goddamn sense.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

slobber slobber

[close]

[Steve Contra]

Remember first person Metroid?

[Himu]

To be fair, I don't think Metroid Prime's problems were that it was first person.

[Great Rumbler]

Remember first person Metroid?

Yeah, and it was great. Then they moved back to third person and it was total garbage.

[Himu]

I honestly don't see how a first person Zelda would be, in anyway, an improvement.

I think it depends on implementation. If I can do stuff in any order and explore the whole world from the get go like in an Elder Scrolls game? I'd like that. But if it's the same Zelda structure? What's the point?

[Himu]

Metroid kinda worked in first-person, but having a ranged weapon helped a lot there.  Still, even there, you can see how the perspective resulted in every boss being some kind of dopey dartboard.

Again, doesn't this reflect Retro's bad boss design and not the perspective? It's not like 3d Zelda has had its share of dartboard bosses. Hell, that's their go to for the most part, isn't it?

[magus]

my favourite 3d zelda game was twilight princess, sure it's got a dumb gimmick (but don't worry, this one will have it too, i'd vote between drawing your map on the pad,using the pad as a shield or something that involve controlling two character at once so that one can be on the pad and the other on the screen or even all 3 all at once) and it had padding like those dumb section with the light tears...

but it got place that were fun to dick around like that sand ruin and the castle with the yeti family in it,none of that power ranger themed temple's shit, it got items that were fun to use like the spinning top and the ball & chain, the bosses even had their own music theme... it had a lot of personality and i think that should be the basis

honestly i don't know how they could fix zelda, the combat is boring but there is no way to fix it other than making it more similiar to other action games (go with a faster pace like with platinum games? copy dark souls?) but worst of all, it's all the thing that have been regurgitated over and over and over to the point they've become trope of the games, the hookshot! the bombs! (that always go inside some boss mouth) the boomerang! all this shit is boring as fuck but they are the element that make a zelda game... open world isn't certainly the answer, open world is

[TakingBackSunday]

Esch have you played A Link Between Worlds yet?  It does pretty much exactly that.  Great game.

[Steve Contra]

fyi if you're new here don't listen to brandnew on zelda

[Himu]

Esch have you played A Link Between Worlds yet?  It does pretty much exactly that.  Great game.

No, it doesn't. You rent all the weapons in the store at the beginning of the game, never die, tackle the dungeons in your own order, and then beat the game in 10 hours.

It's a great game, but it's not about choice beyond "I want to do this dungeon now."

[Steve Contra]

Both Brandnew and Etoilet are.  I prefer Brandnew's unbridled nintardism to Etoilet's "Nintendo fans are the new holocaust victims" pseudo-intellectual facade that tries to mask the fact he's a nostalgic manchild, however.

[TVC15]

The original idea for Super Mario 64 was to be in first person.

 

Jumping Flash was tits awesome.  A 1st person Mario could be done.

[Steve Contra]

Jumping Flash

There's a game that could use a serious hd remake.  Shit gave you some Hydrothunder like vertigo.  Not many games can say that.

[a slime appears]

JUMPING FLASH!

FUUUUUUUUUUU now I need to buy all the PS1 games.

[Steve Contra]

Real talk, how much fucking better than Mario 64 was Jumping Flash.  Real Talk.

[a slime appears]

Time to hit up @giocorsi for a Jumping Flash reboot!

[Steve Contra]

DO IT.

[Steve Contra]

 

[Great Rumbler]

 

[Himu]

Jumping flash with hd graphics would make me throw up for real. And then I'd play some more!

[cool breeze]

 

Jumping Flash is my accuracy reference whenever I try a new PS1 emulator.  I have that first stage burned into my eyes.

[Himu]

That, Ghost in the Shell, and ESPN X-games.