Author Topic: 1,000+ Pages of NeoGAF: The Story of Wasted Lives and Hardcore Salt  (Read 5894500 times)

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Phoenix Dark

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My mom watched the tanks roll past her house. To this day she refuses to call it a riot btw, she calls it the "1967 disturbance."

You're right, the city never fully recovered. And the auto industry made it worse. The entire freeway system was basically used to get people in and out of Detroit for work, and suburbs were propped up outside the city. Tax dollars going out. The city slowly starved to death. My problem with Amir0x is that the city also made things worse with incompetent, corrupt (oftentimes black) politicians who became living institutions.

010

benjipwns

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http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,526339,00.html
Quote
But both Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and Governor Jennifer Granholm were thrilled by Thompson's offer—at least until the Detroit Federation of Teachers made plain its opposition. On Sept. 25 the DFT held a work stoppage, which closed the public schools, and staged a rally at the state capitol in Lansing. The mayor withdrew his support, and Thompson withdrew his offer soon after.

"The Thompson schools would devastate the critical mass of students who remained in our traditional schools," Janna Garrison, president of the DFT, told me last week. She was referring to the $7,100 per pupil that would travel with each student who chose to go to a charter school (although the state offered the Detroit schools $15 million to compensate for the lost funds). This is a familiar union song—similar to the argument against school vouchers—that grows less powerful as urban schools grow worse. The fact that charter-school teachers in Detroit are not union members probably had something to do with the union's stand too (Ross said he would accept a union if his teachers wanted one). But Garrison took the argument a step further: "If someone from the outside came to Bob Thompson's suburban town and said, I'm gonna give you a lot of money for education, but we spend it my way,' they just wouldn't tolerate it."

This was thinly veiled racial politics. "You've got a lot of poison in the air," Mayor Kilpatrick told me. "People here are sensitive about white people bossing them around."

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/03/racism_at_the_root_of_detroits.html
Quote
Monica Lewis Patrick led a discussion on criminal justice inequity and says racism, institutionalized and overt, is a big factor behind the issues discussed.

"We have crime and then we have the perception of crime," she said. "A lot of people, based on the media outlet,  has really shaped this labeling of Detroit as the worst place to live from the perspective of people tat live in the city, but then for people that are considered the hipsters or the new crowd, there are all these wonderful spaces that they've identified and they identify them as though they're not places within the city of Detroit.

"You would think that Midtown was an entity unto itself," she said. "Midtown is a label that was put on Cass Corridor and it was relabeled to make outsiders feel more comfortable ... "

Patrick says the city devotes an uneven amount of its resources, such as policing, in areas like Midtown in an effort to support gentrification.

Meanwhile, she said, they are over-policing the neighborhoods and treating longtime residents like they are the criminals.

She says "the one percent," people like the Koch brothers, Dick Devos and Mike Illitch are trying to "commandeer control" control of Detroit.

"I think racism is a mechanism to create division because their whole goal is to get us to draw a line in the sand along race, along religion, along sexual identity," she said. If we buy into it they would have you think that the urban  centers are off on an island unto themselves and those who live in the suburbs and predominantly white communities are the only civilized"  ones.

Not that there isn't truth to some or a lot of this, but this rhetoric is used all the time to deflect blame from the failure of Detroit's political institutions. Especially DPS. I'm sure you've heard more of it than I have. My favorite was this one:
Quote
Rev. Malik Shabazz of the New Black Panther Party at a Detroit town hall meeting Monday on the fiscal crisis told state officials, "Before we let you take over our city, we will burn it down first." in reference to any state ordered takeover by an emergency manager.

I'm a Puppy!

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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161874793&postcount=300

Well, if we had known what it would've ended like maybe we should have let the british win.
que

Phoenix Dark

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Ahh the spectre of the surban saboteur. Kilpatrick's favorite rhetorical ploy. And it's not just Detroit. If you've seen Street Fight you saw Sharpe use the same argument against Cory Booker in Newark. I don't bring that up to defend Booker as some good guy, but that line of attack is very popular. And to be fair smaller towns and cities have a similar mindset about outside money or influence. Every two years we see ads everywhere about how so-and-so is being financed by out of state/city money.
010

benjipwns

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Ahh the spectre of the surban saboteur. Kilpatrick's favorite rhetorical ploy. And it's not just Detroit. If you've seen Street Fight you saw Sharpe use the same argument against Cory Booker in Newark. I don't bring that up to defend Booker as some good guy, but that line of attack is very popular. And to be fair smaller towns and cities have a similar mindset about outside money or influence. Every two years we see ads everywhere about how so-and-so is being financed by out of state/city money.
Oh yeah, it's certainly not limited to Detroit. I just really enjoyed during the slow decline to Emergency Manager that all the problems were from the outsiders doing evil things like moving out of the city and if they just could run things themselves with all of the state's revenue the city wouldn't have any problems. And the manager was just another attack by the outsiders!

I still don't know how Duggan pulled it off. He had lived in Livonia until 2012 which is why he got kicked off the primary ballot.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161874793&postcount=300

Well, if we had known what it would've ended like maybe we should have let the british win.
I think the modern estimates are something like 40% of the population didn't really care about the Revolution either way and 25% were Loyalists. Even the War itself barely affected most people unless they joined in it, and many who did, did so for like a week and then bailed back to the farm. Most deaths were from disease and are hard to peg to the War or not. The British basically gave up in part because of domestic politics before they had to fight a real war with the allies. The American war was like an afterthought and they were planning on switching to just waiting out the Colonists from a defensive position.

/pinhead

Tasty

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Politics thread for :trash talk is that way

benjipwns

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Politics thread for :trash talk is that way (Image removed from quote.)
Nintendo fans and Detroit politicians are very similar.

thisismyusername

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No, ignore Andy. Keep talking about this in here. I'm actually kinda interested and looked up the Detroit Riot as I didn't know that.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I'm curious to know how Deus Ex explains the decline of Detroit away with Sarif "saving the town"/at least fixing it up a little pre-Human Revolution.</nerd>
[close]

Joe Molotov

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Benji, why aren't you writing articles for some news website? The research and organization you put into Amir0x takedowns and other trolling like this is pretty much exactly what goes into articles people make a living writing.
©@©™

Kara

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No, ignore Andy. Keep talking about this in here. I'm actually kinda interested and looked up the Detroit Riot as I didn't know that.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I'm curious to know how Deus Ex explains the decline of Detroit away with Sarif "saving the town"/at least fixing it up a little pre-Human Revolution.</nerd>
[close]
The city is still a huge dump in HR, it just has a ray of light to chase after--sort of like Sarif's plan to handle M12 in a way.

Rman

  • Senior Member
I understand the frustration of the rioters, but rioting is this scale is not effective. I'm just not seeing eye to eye with most of GAF. You're destroying infrastructure, businesses, etc.  It really makes no sense to me.

It's playing checkers, not chess.

thisismyusername

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No, ignore Andy. Keep talking about this in here. I'm actually kinda interested and looked up the Detroit Riot as I didn't know that.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I'm curious to know how Deus Ex explains the decline of Detroit away with Sarif "saving the town"/at least fixing it up a little pre-Human Revolution.</nerd>
[close]
The city is still a huge dump in HR, it just has a ray of light to chase after--sort of like Sarif's plan to handle M12 in a way.

Yeah, but from what I'm reading: Detroit has plans to demolish areas and have the remaining population move in closer for stuff.

Outside of the abandoned gas station which is in the area outside Sarif's HQ, I don't really notice a huge "blight" issue outside of the homeless. It seems like most of the buildings are upkept. I dunno, Detroit in Human Revolution didn't seem as much as a shit hole in the (granted, small size) three areas you explore there than it probably should be, especially since it isn't that far off in the future.


Tasty

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Politics thread for :trash talk is that way (Image removed from quote.)
Nintendo fans and Detroit politicians are very similar.

:wtf

thisismyusername

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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1036966

 :rofl

This fucking thread's title has been updated 3+ times in the past 24 hours. :dead :rofl

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Ahh the spectre of the surban saboteur. Kilpatrick's favorite rhetorical ploy. And it's not just Detroit. If you've seen Street Fight you saw Sharpe use the same argument against Cory Booker in Newark. I don't bring that up to defend Booker as some good guy, but that line of attack is very popular. And to be fair smaller towns and cities have a similar mindset about outside money or influence. Every two years we see ads everywhere about how so-and-so is being financed by out of state/city money.
Oh yeah, it's certainly not limited to Detroit. I just really enjoyed during the slow decline to Emergency Manager that all the problems were from the outsiders doing evil things like moving out of the city and if they just could run things themselves with all of the state's revenue the city wouldn't have any problems. And the manager was just another attack by the outsiders!

I still don't know how Duggan pulled it off. He had lived in Livonia until 2012 which is why he got kicked off the primary ballot.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161874793&postcount=300

Well, if we had known what it would've ended like maybe we should have let the british win.
I think the modern estimates are something like 40% of the population didn't really care about the Revolution either way and 25% were Loyalists. Even the War itself barely affected most people unless they joined in it, and many who did, did so for like a week and then bailed back to the farm. Most deaths were from disease and are hard to peg to the War or not. The British basically gave up in part because of domestic politics before they had to fight a real war with the allies. The American war was like an afterthought and they were planning on switching to just waiting out the Colonists from a defensive position.

/pinhead

The way I view it...every city fucks something up, but typically everything has a margin of error. So you may fuck something up but as long as you're within a certain margin you can recover. Well when you're running a city that's tax dollars are being siphoned out of the city into surrounding suburbs, you're margin of error starts getting lower and lower. And sooner or later - decades down the line - you're out of room and are fucked. Yes Detroit politicians were corrupt, but then again so are Chicago politicians and just about every other city's politicians. Those cities weren't dealing with an auto industry that killed public transportation and helped finance highways. They had more room to fuck up.

Sooner or later a lot of these cities are going to explode though, it's just that Detroit happened to be first.

Duggan is cool, at least personally. I've met him a few times and interned at the DMC.
010

I'm a Puppy!

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I understand the frustration of the rioters, but rioting is this scale is not effective. I'm just not seeing eye to eye with most of GAF. You're destroying infrastructure, businesses, etc.  It really makes no sense to me.

It's playing checkers, not chess.
Yeah burning down local businesses and people's houses only makes their point for them and ultimately only hurts themselves. Focus your anger where it should be directed.
que

thisismyusername

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So, PD: You see a lot of other major cities going the way of Detroit?

Sausage

  • Member
I understand the frustration of the rioters, but rioting is this scale is not effective. I'm just not seeing eye to eye with most of GAF. You're destroying infrastructure, businesses, etc.  It really makes no sense to me.

It's playing checkers, not chess.

Some people are even turning on David Simon after he told the rioters to stop.

benjipwns

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No, ignore Andy. Keep talking about this in here. I'm actually kinda interested and looked up the Detroit Riot as I didn't know that.
If you look at the satellite views of Detroit you'll see some like "gaps" of concrete/overgrown and maybe one or two houses. Some of these were factories that got torn down or whatever. But there's a lot of parts that were burned or wrecked during the riots where they just pushed the rubble out and it's sat barren. With the buildings nearby abandoned. Mostly on the northwest side I think. East of Hamtramck and sorta southwest of Highland Park. IIRC, that area was the epicenter of the riots.
http://www.theseekerbooks.com/detroit/DetroitRiot.html





These are 2010, 2013-14 pictures.

There's large buildings downtown abandoned and the infamous Michigan Central Depot. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the riots and just looks cool.

Black Bottom was a very prosperous black neighborhood down near the river that got paved over to build the Interstate Highway system over top of.

Sooner or later a lot of these cities are going to explode though, it's just that Detroit happened to be first.
Oh yeah, Detroit just had everything bad lining up at once to just batter it. San Francisco is one that seems to be heading in wildly different and amusing path to possibly the same result.

Chicago's been a bit lucky in that the suburbs have actually propped the city back up. (Plus its financial importance, like New York.) Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, etc. have never had good relations with their suburbs. Though Cleveland has its primary industry back now, so it should do fine.

Pittsburgh is an interesting example, that city has somewhat diversified itself so as to avoid the Rust Belt blues to the level of its peers.

:wtf
It's those damn third parties fault. :P

Rman

  • Senior Member
I understand the frustration of the rioters, but rioting is this scale is not effective. I'm just not seeing eye to eye with most of GAF. You're destroying infrastructure, businesses, etc.  It really makes no sense to me.

It's playing checkers, not chess.
Yeah burning down local businesses and people's houses only makes their point for them and ultimately only hurts themselves. Focus your anger where it should be directed.

The thing I wonder if all those posters saying rioting is needed actually live or own businesses in Baltimore? It's easy to type this great from the comfort of your Macbook Pro in suburbia or some nice college campuses.  That's the disconnect these riot supporters miss.  Not to mention the general safety of the inhabitants.

I'm a Puppy!

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hashtag activism is equivalent to the yellow ribbon car magnets.
Empty gestures.
que

thisismyusername

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ignore Andy.
:lawd

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  :lol What I meant was Andy is wrong in "OMG THIS SHIT ISN'T INTERESTING" because no, to me it is.

Like Benji's photos in that one post: Urban Decay and the problems of Detroit are interesting to me. I can see where Benji mentioning San Fran possibly having the same issues is coming from, but I'm curious as to reasons why major cities in America are going to have the problems Detroit had as (to my knowledge) a lot of them outside of San Fran don't have one industry dominating them, do they?

I mean San Frans' problem is going to the dot-com (or whatever it's calling itself now) bubble burst--again.


benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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hashtag activism is equivalent to the yellow ribbon car magnets.
Empty gestures.

Nibel

  • Member
Brehs if the freedom of the US is too much for you to handle you can come over, I invite you all to Germany

We gon eat some sauerkraut sandwiches, swallow some bratwurst and have fun watching FC Bayern football games
SWISH

thisismyusername

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Brehs if the freedom of the US is too much for you to handle you can come over, I invite you all to Germany

We gon eat some sauerkraut sandwiches, swallow some bratwurst and have fun watching FC Bayern football games

Yeah, but you want me to shit on you bb and I'm not into that.  :-\

FinNeato

  • Junior Member
I understand the frustration of the rioters, but rioting is this scale is not effective. I'm just not seeing eye to eye with most of GAF. You're destroying infrastructure, businesses, etc.  It really makes no sense to me.

It's playing checkers, not chess.
Yeah burning down local businesses and people's houses only makes their point for them and ultimately only hurts themselves. Focus your anger where it should be directed.

The thing I wonder if all those posters saying rioting is needed actually live or own businesses in Baltimore? It's easy to type this great from the comfort of your Macbook Pro in suburbia or some nice college campuses.  That's the disconnect these riot supporters miss.  Not to mention the general safety of the inhabitants.

I can see how riots could be successful if you had the weaponry or numbers to fight the government, but the reality is they don't. The real battle should be for hearts and minds to drive political action, but instead you see posters encouraging divisive action like the destruction of the property of innocent people that, if anything, is likely to just piss off the citizens whom they should be trying to win over. It creates a situation where people in the city who value their safety will choose to side with the police for protection instead of focusing on seeking justice for the man who was wrongfully murdered.

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
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Brehs if the freedom of the US is too much for you to handle you can come over, I invite you all to Germany

We gon eat some sauerkraut sandwiches, swallow some bratwurst and have fun watching FC Bayern football games
Man I'm sure we'd all be there swallowing some serious german sausage. They're so meaty and girthy.
que

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Brehs if the freedom of the US is too much for you to handle you can come over, I invite you all to Germany

We gon eat some sauerkraut sandwiches, swallow some bratwurst and have fun watching FC Bayern football games

As blablurn would say, BAVARIAAAAAAAAAAA.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Eisern Union. :smugbert:
[close]

Cerveza mas fina

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Quote
Looking forward to this game and would love to buy after I finish Bloodborne.

However, still not seen any ps4 footage, which is ok if not for the fact of the pop-in. If there is this amount of pop-in on ultra pc settings, then the ps4 is going be surely shite?

It's all very well having a huge open world game but for the life of me, I can't understand the free pass this is getting with all this pop-in. Totally ruins the whole aspect of being in this huge open world. Technically, its not good enough for me, maybe not even cheaper down the line.

Ffs, its practically constant!

Gutted.

Here's to dreaming it will be ok.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=161887924

:neogaf


Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Someone in that fucking thread called byzantine a thesaurus word. :neogaf

Brehs if the freedom of the US is too much for you to handle you can come over, I invite you all to Germany

We gon eat some sauerkraut sandwiches, swallow some bratwurst and have fun watching FC Bayern football games

Was with you until the very end.

If anything, FC Bayern is the one injustice that will make me riot in the streets.

Hold on, when was PD's tag changed? I missed that.

End of an era.

Huff

  • stronger ties you have, more power you gain
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I guess you can't criticize the looters without some mod getting mad now

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161872876&postcount=2209
dur

huckleberry

  • Senior Member
Seriously, what did you expect?
wub

Huff

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Anal
dur

huckleberry

  • Senior Member
Bish gave you the bbc you asked for then.
wub

zomgee

  • We've *all*
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And that's where 'GAF is not a hive mind' no longer applies.
rub

Nibel

  • Member
Quote
Looking forward to this game and would love to buy after I finish Bloodborne.

However, still not seen any ps4 footage, which is ok if not for the fact of the pop-in. If there is this amount of pop-in on ultra pc settings, then the ps4 is going be surely shite?

It's all very well having a huge open world game but for the life of me, I can't understand the free pass this is getting with all this pop-in. Totally ruins the whole aspect of being in this huge open world. Technically, its not good enough for me, maybe not even cheaper down the line.

Ffs, its practically constant!

Gutted.

Here's to dreaming it will be ok.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=161887924

:neogaf

Discussing a anticipated AAA game on GAF is always a mistake; people are fucking insane, talk out of their ass, see issues where no issues are, see no issues where issues are, always have to count pixels and some nerdshit no normal person cares for

 :PP
SWISH

Rufus

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Brehs if the freedom of the US is too much for you to handle you can come over, I invite you all to Germany

We gon eat some sauerkraut sandwiches, swallow some bratwurst and have fun watching FC Bayern football games
Schwing deinen Arsch nach Deutsch-GAF, kann immer ein bisschen Leben gebrauchen.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447536

Yeah, but you want me to shit on you bb and I'm not into that.  :-\
There's more than one joke, come on. :tocry

Cerveza mas fina

  • I don't care for Islam tbqh
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Here is one of my fav Bayern games


Phoenix Dark

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I think more cities will end up like Detroit. Eventually Detroit will rebound to a degree as gentrification continues to spread. Lots of money is beig pumped downtown. But somethig has to be done about the size of the city. Perhaps a Biden-esque plan to split it into 2-3 cities would work lol.

Or we could just legalize pot and fix things with the tax money.
010

zomgee

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I think more cities will end up like Detroit. Eventually Detroit will rebound to a degree as gentrification continues to spread. Lots of money is beig pumped downtown. But somethig has to be done about the size of the city. Perhaps a Biden-esque plan to split it into 2-3 cities would work lol.

Or we could just legalize pot and fix things with the tax money.


Pot - pssssh, no. Here's my idea: Gambling. Gambling! Infinite money!
rub

Courage

  • Member
Here is one of my fav Bayern games



Here's another classic Bayern game




Cerveza mas fina

  • I don't care for Islam tbqh
  • filler
Nibel is right, id eat a bratwurst with that

Nibel

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Quote
Throwing rocks at innocent people and mob beat-downs, that's almost ISIS-level stuff.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161917222&postcount=2769

SWISH

Joe Molotov

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Quote
Throwing rocks at innocent people and mob beat-downs, that's almost ISIS-level stuff.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161917222&postcount=2769

(Image removed from quote.)

I didn't know Scott Walker had a GAF account.
©@©™

daycru

  • Junior Member
a non-ugly haircut with product = cries from nerds about being hipstery/emo.

Nah, hardly takes that much. More like not rocking an active food stain.

king of the internet

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a non-ugly haircut with product = cries from nerds about being hipstery/emo.

Nah, hardly takes that much. More like not rocking an active food stain.

Saving that mustard for later :mouf

Was considering going in that riot thread, but people seem really angry in there, so maybe not.

sarslip

  • Member
 :ufup enjoy this bbc  :shaq

nachobro

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Was considering going in that riot thread, but people seem really angry in there, so maybe not.
Wow, really? I just...I can't with this

Jansen

  • Senior Member
trailer for ted 2

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1036687

Quote from: Kinsei;161810461
That was disgusting.
I wonder if a few years ago y'all would have laughed at a "joke" saying that there's no such thing as gay guys, just guys that haven't met the right girl yet.

and it just spirals out from there

getting outraged over a seth macfarlane movie  :neogaf

Huff

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I guess you can't criticize the looters without some mod getting mad now

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161872876&postcount=2209

Definitely bish.

What was your ban message?

Didn't have one. Just a link to the post. Only a week
dur

DarkFlow

  • Junior Member
I guess you can't criticize the looters without some mod getting mad now

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161872876&postcount=2209

Hey I got one too for telling someone to not say go fuck yourself.  What a place!

Jansen

  • Senior Member
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=161928862&postcount=503

Quote from: Gunslinger;161928862
This is sickening. Makes me ashamed to be a gamer. People needs to vote with their wallet. Stop buying this crap. I bet its WB. They did overpriced dlc for Mk too.

"sickening" "ashamed"

lol videogaems

Nibel

  • Member
Was considering going in that riot thread, but people seem really angry in there, so maybe not.
Wow, really? I just...I can't with this

Are you serious right now? Wow.
SWISH