Author Topic: 1,000+ Pages of NeoGAF: The Story of Wasted Lives and Hardcore Salt  (Read 5964752 times)

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Steve Contra

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Shenmue was always garbage.  I'm even more glad the fans are getting a half-assed attempt at finishing the story that they'll always secretly dislike because it won't be anything like the originals :mouf
vin

Van Cruncheon

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i remember when the pc had REAL ambitious open world games long before the sega weebs got a limited museum experience  :jawalrus
duc

Van Cruncheon

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  • Banned


:bow amiga :bow2
duc

thisismyusername

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My friend actually proposed to his girl out there :heh
Dude was dressed up as link and she was Zelda :heh
He's a good dude tho so I wish him well.

Sounds like he's happier than you, though. :hitler

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Preemptive :umad

No, dear. I just wanted to make that pot-shot. If he's happy and she's happy together, who gives a damn how they proposed? At least it isn't another cliché Disneyworld proposal.
[close]

studyguy

  • Senior Member
Take your shots breh.
I'm bulletproof.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:brazilcry
[close]

Actually that puts me in a spot as now within my circle of friends. I'm part of the longest running couple without having put a ring on it now that he locked it up.
 :shaq2
pause

tiesto

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i remember when the pc had REAL ambitious open world games long before the sega weebs got a limited museum experience  :jawalrus

Ambitious, but also filled with game-breaking bugs, obtuse interfaces, and a total lack of any kind of direction. The game Drinky posted below I vaguely remember on Genesis, and it was pretty bad (to be fair maybe the Amiga version is a helluva lot better).

Shenmue may have been more limited compared to them, but still had polish in heaps and spades, a robust combat engine, and lots of fun minigames/diversions. Yeah it's boring but I like boring sometimes!
^_^

D3RANG3D

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i remember when the pc had REAL ambitious open world games long before the sega weebs got a limited museum experience  :jawalrus

Ambitious, but also filled with game-breaking bugs, obtuse interfaces, and a total lack of any kind of direction. The game Drinky posted below I vaguely remember on Genesis, and it was pretty bad (to be fair maybe the Amiga version is a helluva lot better).

Shenmue may have been more limited compared to them, but still had polish in heaps and spades, a robust combat engine, and lots of fun minigames/diversions. Yeah it's boring but I like boring sometimes!

I'll take that jank over "playing" a game about an emotionally distinguished mentally-challenged teenager in Japan in the 1980's, who races forklifts and collects useless Sega tchotchke's, and all with a heavily reduced VF fighting engine that plays at 1/4 the framerate.

 :umad :ufup :trash

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And talks to a weird Japanese "Jamaican" dude.  :comeon

[close]

tiesto

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Well, you're a PC gamer, (and you like Bethesda and eastern euro games) so you've got a much higher tolerance for jank than me...  :P

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though I did love Nier and Witcher 1, which are both pretty janky
[close]
^_^

D3RANG3D

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Well, you're a PC gamer, (and you like Bethesda and eastern euro games) so you've got a much higher tolerance for jank than me...  :P

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though I did love Nier and Witcher 1, which are both pretty janky
[close]

I was a console gamer for most of my life... :heh

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
you know a game sucks when shitty forklift racing is the highlight.
*****

Van Cruncheon

  • live mas or die trying
  • Banned
shenmue was pure jank. dose controls. dose non-interactive environments. DAT VOICE ACTING.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 06:56:15 PM by Van Cruncheon »
duc

Van Cruncheon

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i'll give shenmue this: it's the ONLY truly bad game that i can recall which actually got demonstrably WORSE playing it n years later. most bad games, they just remain at some fixed value for awfulness even as time progresses, but oh no, shenmue threatens the very notion of asymptotal kusoge
duc



suppadoopa

  • Member

shenmue is great but its ok if u dont 'get' it, i guess u can still enjoy ur life or whatever

benjipwns

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lmao at adding the buildings blowing up to Kerbal, I wonder when that was, when my star-plane went wildly off course and smashed into it a couple years back, that didn't happen.

also, yelling anything in Insurgency is kinda dumb because I think talking too loud shows up on the map...and people who play that regularly will drop you before you'd probably even get close enough to suicide bomb

which made me feel good when I held down the tiki bar like point alone while rapidly running out of ammo the last time I played it by shifting my location after every kill so I could launch absurd risky ambushes that the other players told me was incredibly foolish and that I should go back to CoD probably when the next round started

EVEN THOUGH IT WORKED AND WE WON

SMH

VIDEO GAMES ARE HORRIBLE

suppadoopa

  • Member
I've only played the DS version of Xenosaga 1+2 and the PS2 version of 1 and I thought it was alright.
It's better than Xenoblade Chronicles which I'm still surprised many herald it as the second coming of Christ. Prolly cuz not a lot of Wii RPGs

ZephyrFate

  • Senior Member
FFXII was a steaming hot pile of garbage.  :yuck

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
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I'd much rather air out books in Shenmue than play FFXII again.
que

Van Cruncheon

  • live mas or die trying
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i'd rather wake up with kagari's mustache tickling my oozing cornfish than either
duc

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
I want 2D shenmue and for it not to be sucky. what the hell is a shenmew anyway?  :cac
*****

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
I want 2D shenmue and for it not to be sucky. what the hell is a shenmew anyway?  :cac

A miserable pile of kitten petting.
©@©™

thisismyusername

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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1076093



I didn't even know you could slam the jet into those buildings and destroy them. :ohhh

Game done changed. :ohhh

thisismyusername

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Also Arby's: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/3caka7/recap_amageddon/ <---Recap of the reddit drama last weekend before I forget about this. This gives a nice summary with drama links if you want to waste hours reading reddit comments.  :lol

bluemax

  • Senior Member
FF12 was pretty decent.

Shit dungeons, shit sidequests, terrible pacing, shit main character, boring battle system, story that doesn't get interesting within 20 hours. Compare that to something like FFVII, where you know exactly what the game is all about within the first couple of hours.

Really? Because in the first few hours I thought FF7 was about stopping Shinra but the game later becomes about stopping Meteor and reconciling Cloud's Ego and Id, neither of which are really hinted at for the first 10+ hours.

I've only played the DS version of Xenosaga 1+2 and the PS2 version of 1 and I thought it was alright.
It's better than Xenoblade Chronicles which I'm still surprised many herald it as the second coming of Christ. Prolly cuz not a lot of Wii RPGs

I completely forgot XenoSaga came to the DS. Xeno everything has been awful though.
NO

thisismyusername

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FF12 was pretty decent.

Shit dungeons, shit sidequests, terrible pacing, shit main character, boring battle system, story that doesn't get interesting within 20 hours. Compare that to something like FFVII, where you know exactly what the game is all about within the first couple of hours.

Really? Because in the first few hours I thought FF7 was about stopping Shinra but the game later becomes about stopping Meteor and reconciling Butt's Ego and Id, neither of which are really hinted at for the first 10+ hours.

FF7 fans status:
  • Told-a-saurus Rex.


Also FF12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shenmue 1-2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF7

 :patel

suppadoopa

  • Member
In FFXII defense, you can make a sandwich or do something useful while the game autobattles for you.

Himu

  • Senior Member
The first kinda Open World game.

It was also the most boring ass game in the era of a godly Dreamcast line up yet is somehow the most fondly remembered.

Fellow Dreamcast stans glorifying Shenmue over Skies Of Arcadia, Phantasy Star Online, Metropolis Street Racer, F355 Challenge (Yu Suzuki's TRUE Masterpiece) and Jet Set Radio :pacspit :bolo

(Except Space Channel 5. That game was :trash )

PSO sucks, Skies of Arcadia is great but not that great, Metropolis I'll give you, F355 Challenge is a classic, and JSR is my second favorite game after Shenmue 1 and 2. I also bet I can play JSR better than you.
IYKYK

benjipwns

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POWERRRRRR STONNNNEEEEE

spoiler (click to show/hide)
2
[close]

CRAZZZZZZZZY TAXI

LET'S MAKE SOME CRAZY MONEY

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sega did not follow their own advice.
[close]

Himu

  • Senior Member
Saying Space Channel 5 is :trash is a truly :trash opinion :larry
IYKYK

thisismyusername

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In FFXII defense, you can make a sandwich or do something useful while the game autobattles for you.

Meanwhile in FFXIII's defense, you can make a sandwich with one hand and/or masturbate "do something useful" while the game auto-battles for you while you smash X and R1 up-down occasionally.

Hell, you could modify that line for nearly any Final Fantasy. They're all braindead easy. FFXII just takes that brain-dead easy combat and allows you to automate it so you don't have to bore yourself to tears wading through menus.

benjipwns

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Also, if anyone ever gets the Crazy Taxi that's on Steam, play it at least once before you get the speed fix. It runs at like 31 times the speed it should so some of the cars are borderline impossible to control. :lol

Himu

  • Senior Member
I love Shenmue.
I love Final Fantasy XII.
I like Final Fantasy XIII.
I love Grand Theft Auto and some other open world games.

:umad

Feels great having an open mind and having good taste and not being restricted to one type of game style :rejoice


Also, if anyone ever gets the Crazy Taxi that's on Steam, play it at least once before you get the speed fix. It runs at like 9000 fps so some of the cars are borderline impossible to control. :lol

Speed fix?
IYKYK

benjipwns

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oop, it's a problem with no analog support: https://steamcommunity.com/app/71230/discussions/0/611701999526098093/

mixed it up with some other older games that run absurdly fast

Himu

  • Senior Member
??? I've never had issues with analog support in Crazy Taxi steam.

Compare that to something like FFVII, where you know exactly what the game is all about within the first couple of hours.

Final Fantasy VII goes from a story about environmental terrorism into a story about knocking a dude out of coma by entering his psyche.

Changing the plan and how the game started is Final Fantasy 101. Pretty much every story-based FF, except 10, is like that. FF stories are :trash stories with interesting, great concepts that aren't fully fleshed out and abandoned sometimes not even halfway for typical save the world stories. I have no idea what expectations you have or had for that series.
IYKYK

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Himu

  • Senior Member
PSO sucks

 :iface

The only Phantasy Stars worth playing are 1 and IV.

Facts only.
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Virtua Tennis

Toy Commander

Super Runabout with its wacked out physics

The DC was so perfect with games coming out at a good clip to fill that gap where the PS1 was starting to wind down in how often stuff was coming out to when the PS2's lineup was mostly garbage. DC + PC made that era very enjoyable.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Virtua Fighter 3 TB :lawd
Garou: Mark of the Wolves :lawd
Project Justice :bow
Soul Calibur :gladbron
IYKYK

suppadoopa

  • Member

Meanwhile in FFXIII's defense, you can make a sandwich with one hand and/or masturbate "do something useful" while the game auto-battles for you while you smash X and R1 up-down occasionally.


Which was remedied in LR aka game with the best battle system to date.

God Bless Tri-Ace  :rejoice

Kara

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  • Senior Member
PSO sucks

 :iface

The only Phantasy Stars worth playing are 1 and IV.

Facts only.

Talk to the RAcast cuz the FOmar don't want to hear it. :preach

benjipwns

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Who was that guy who used to post on GAF and a lot of other places arguing the Dreamcast was more powerful than the PS2 because it had more video RAM and always pointed to Shenmue as "impossible" on the PS2.

But his criticism of Sega was that they should have put like four CPU/GPUs inside the Dreamcast instead, and it only would have cost $50 more! That way it would have lasted until the 360.

benjipwns

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IIRC, Sony dropped the PS2 reveals like a few months before and then again right before the DC launch. With all those crazy feature/CG demos.

My favorite of that era was some Xbox one where they did the drop a ball into a room full of balls on mouse traps scenario.

EDIT:

Himu

  • Senior Member
What's so great about Shenmue?
Though I heard there is Space Harrier (one of the few good SEGA games :smug) within the game so Shenmue might be worth checking out

Talking about Shenmue you have to separate them between games.

What's good about 1:

- sad atmosphere. The game is about a kid dealing with his fathers murder as he tries to get revenge. He alienates his friends and family in the process. Not too many games deal with the emotion of sadness. Shenmue deals with in spades. The music reflects this heavily.

- a revenge story in a game that isn't necessarily about revenge or the glorification of revenge. This is key. Any other video game would be a vapid action fest. Say what you want about Shenmue, it is never vapid. The game makes it clear from the get go that everyone around the main character does not approve of his actions or what he is doing as he slowly gets more and more angry as the sadness and depression starts to leave and there's nothing you can do about it.

- More over, Ryo is treated like a person and not a mechanism to drive the players urges forward. You can't always be about revenge, you have to sleep in-game, you have to find leisure and entertainment, you need to gain money. This makes the player actually place themselves in the life of the character, and due to the amount of interaction the game has, makes you more in tune and attached with his character more than most game characters.

- detailed environments. You can open drawers, examine objects, cabinets interact with things, snoop around find hidden stuff in laundry basket. This makes the feel more personal.

- the game challenges you. Not in a typical game way where it's about overcoming an obstacle, although there is that in 1, but rather, the game challenges what and how you think in relation to a game. For example, often in games you always have access to the next part of the story or continuing the game or whatever. Shenmue isn't like this. If someone says to come back tomorrow, you have to wait a full day in game time. It isn't like Animal Crossing where you have the ability to just skip time or change the date. You have to actually wait. You can fill that time with however you please, but the general requirement here is patience. In Shenmue, you actually work in-game. It helps that work is interrupted by kicking ass, but still. The game does not bend to your will like other games, but rather the game bends you, and forces a level of challenge that goes into playing it beyond a typical video game challenge would be.

- fun as shit combat system.

- amazing atmosphere and music. Especially with Japanese voices. The Japanese version is incredible.

- unique gaming experience.

- best QTE's in the industry.

What's good about II:

- best storytelling in a game of this type, and some of the best examples of story telling in a game period. Not story, but story telling. If you consider it in the same genre as say GTA or whatever, Shenmue II knocks those games out of the park, even now.

- is a video game epic. When a lot of people call games epics it's pretty lol worthy. Shenmue II is an actual epic. It spans three locations in China as the player goes from destination to destination in search for revenge.

- is the best game of all time :uguu

- has a shit load to do, especially compared to modern peers. It makes a lot of modern games look like a joke. There's an insane amont of ways to make money. with a shit load of diversions of differing challenge. Like street fighting Virtua Fighter style? Why not, go at it? How about arm wrestling? Dice games like big or small? How about challenging different characters to darts to see who gets the highest score? Collecting toy figures so you can sell em for for $$$?

- even better combat system than the first game.

- takes the first game and makes it more action-packed and dramatic. If 1's central theme is sadness, 2's would definitely be anger.

- Shenmue 1 has a lot of hidden stuff. Shenmue II has a mountain of hidden stuff. Want to bet on ducks that race through the city? Why the fuck not? It's impossible to see everything on one playthrough.

There's a reason Shenmue fans have been asking for III for so long. That reason is Shenmue II and its absolute stylin on every other game. They just can't compete with Shenmue II. :rejoice
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 01:50:59 AM by Queen of Ice »
IYKYK

Himu

  • Senior Member
Who was that guy who used to post on GAF and a lot of other places arguing the Dreamcast was more powerful than the PS2 because it had more video RAM and always pointed to Shenmue as "impossible" on the PS2.

But his criticism of Sega was that they should have put like four CPU/GPUs inside the Dreamcast instead, and it only would have cost $50 more! That way it would have lasted until the 360.

dark10x?
IYKYK

benjipwns

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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1076135

creation, discovery, what's the difference?

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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searching for that fellow found this great post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42446834&postcount=375
Quote
I'm not the type of person to read into technical specs too much but rather I just judge the systems based on what I see. On paper last generation went like this Xbox > GameCube > PS2 > Dreamcast which in my opinion is not really how I saw it.

Xbox = GameCube > Dreamcast > PS2 is how I remember it.

GAF is laughing their asses off and GIF's will probably follow but I don't really care. Xbox was just a PC posing as a console while the GameCube was a carefully designed system. Throw in a lazy port and yeah the Xbox naturally runs it better, build a game for the GameCube and under the right hands it more than holds it's own against the Xbox.
I always found it interesting that StarFox Adventures on GameCube in 2002 ran at 60FPS with widescreen support while 2005's Conker's Bad Fur Day on Xbox only did 30FPS at 4:3.

As far as the PS2 and Dreamcast battle goes we'll never find out for sure since Dreamcast died so early. For what it's worth I remember the Dreamcast for it's sharp colourful vibrant smooth visuals, the PS2 on the other hand I remember for it's horrible anti aliasing issues, bland colours and blurry textures. Every Dreamcast port the PS2 got always looked worse, sure there's probably couple of half assed ports in there but Team Ninja did Dead or Alive 2 on PS2 twice and it still didn't look as good as it did on Dreamcast.

People like to do the MGS 2 vs Shenmue II comparison but personally I prefer Shenmue II's busy streets and interactive NPCs over MGS 2's occasional bird shit on the floor of the big shell. For what it's worth Shenmue II isn't even a Dreamcast game, it's a upgraded Sega Saturn game.

benjipwns

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Lazy8s, that's who it is!

Himu

  • Senior Member
I'm pretty positive ps2 can handle Shenmue II. I mean it isn't like the Xbox version is even that much of a visual upgrade. In fact, they took AWAY some of the smaller detail in the Xbox version and the only thing it really improves visually is the water.
There's nothing to suggest ps2 wouldn't be able to handle Shenmue II especially with use of dvd.

Final Fantasy XI and XII were made for ps2. I doubt Cast could handle either. :wtf Dragon Quest VIII proves him wrong further. And of course, he has a Nintendo avvy.
IYKYK

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
  • Senior Member
dark10x  :yuck

El Babua

  • Senior Member
I'm pretty positive ps2 can handle Shenmue II. I mean it isn't like the Xbox version is even that much of a visual upgrade. In fact, they took AWAY some of the smaller detail in the Xbox version and the only thing it really improves visually is the water.
There's nothing to suggest ps2 wouldn't be able to handle Shenmue II especially with use of dvd.

Final Fantasy XI and XII were made for ps2. I doubt Cast could handle either. :wtf Dragon Quest VIII proves him wrong further. And of course, he has a Nintendo avvy.

The PS2 was notoriously hard to program for and I remember reading some old-school game comparisons on EGM showing a couple of games that came out on both consoles had the Dreamcast ver coming out on top.

True, the Dreamcast had more dedicated VRAM, but the whole design of the PS2 was some alien Kutaragi shit, and developers figured out the memory on it's GPU was best suited to process the framebuffer a la the EDRAM on 360, and use the actual memory on the console for everything else. Besides, 2001 kinda put that debate to bed lol.

Mr. Nobody

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  • Senior Member
I love Shenmue.
I love Final Fantasy XII.
I like Final Fantasy XIII.
I love Grand Theft Auto and some other open world games.

:umad

Feels great having an open mind and having good taste and not being restricted to one type of game style :rejoice

Brehette  :obama

Himu

  • Senior Member
I agree, but I mean, I don't see why it would not be able to handle Shenmue 1 and 2. Though, the magic maze stuff and the Kowloon stuff would be pushing it but it's not like it didn't see worse in the GTA games.
IYKYK

bluemax

  • Senior Member
I'm pretty positive ps2 can handle Shenmue II. I mean it isn't like the Xbox version is even that much of a visual upgrade. In fact, they took AWAY some of the smaller detail in the Xbox version and the only thing it really improves visually is the water.
There's nothing to suggest ps2 wouldn't be able to handle Shenmue II especially with use of dvd.

Final Fantasy XI and XII were made for ps2. I doubt Cast could handle either. :wtf Dragon Quest VIII proves him wrong further. And of course, he has a Nintendo avvy.

How many FPS do you think SotC would run at on DC?

Actually would they even be able to implement the disc streaming tech that made God of War and SotC possible on the DC? Shit used to sound like it was gonna die before every random battle in Skies of Arcadia.

I'm pretty positive ps2 can handle Shenmue II. I mean it isn't like the Xbox version is even that much of a visual upgrade. In fact, they took AWAY some of the smaller detail in the Xbox version and the only thing it really improves visually is the water.
There's nothing to suggest ps2 wouldn't be able to handle Shenmue II especially with use of dvd.

Final Fantasy XI and XII were made for ps2. I doubt Cast could handle either. :wtf Dragon Quest VIII proves him wrong further. And of course, he has a Nintendo avvy.

The PS2 was notoriously hard to program for and I remember reading some old-school game comparisons on EGM showing a couple of games that came out on both consoles had the Dreamcast ver coming out on top.

True, the Dreamcast had more dedicated VRAM, but the whole design of the PS2 was some alien Kutaragi shit, and developers figured out the memory on it's GPU was best suited to process the framebuffer a la the EDRAM on 360, and use the actual memory on the console for everything else. Besides, 2001 kinda put that debate to bed lol.

Are you sure you're not thinking of the PS3? Cause we had to do shit like that on the PS3.


Meanwhile in FFXIII's defense, you can make a sandwich with one hand and/or masturbate "do something useful" while the game auto-battles for you while you smash X and R1 up-down occasionally.


Which was remedied in LR aka game with the best battle system to date.

God Bless Tri-Ace  :rejoice

I think you mean Dragon Quarter. How can an RPG that actively discourages you from fighting have the best battle system ever? I'll take an RPG where every battle is a life or death struggle against having to start the entire game over.

Also LR has one of my least favorite aspects of JRPG "tactical" game design, battles where you're locked in with whatever tools you chose at the outset and so you're forced to fail until you find the right set up.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 02:40:00 AM by bluemax »
NO

benjipwns

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The PS2 had what were two vector units, VU0 and VU1, this was before shaders were common which I think they could do a lot of similar functions to. Early PS2 games mostly only used one of them and for a few simple tasks when they, like modern compute units could actually do a whole bunch of them quickly. Especially one of the two which could do a lot of something, I think it was help chug out polygons? (IIRC, the PS2 actually could put out more polys than the GCN and Xbox as long as you just wanted flat polygons and it was in part due to this unit.)  So there are a number of early games where the DC version looks better due to this and the extra texture space. And it's why a lot of early PS2 games didn't have AA.

As the PC moved towards shaders, the GCN had equivalent units and the Xbox was for the time packed with them, they got the grasp on the PS2's which of course would be surpassed by the Xbox's which allowed for some serious normal mapping and stuff. I remember one developer saying you could combine every map and draw it once compared to having to draw each layer on the PS2 if you didn't use the units properly.

Basically you had a situation similar to the Saturn where nobody knew how to write good parallel code, or utilize the VDP2 properly, so they just ignored the second CPU. And so Saturn versions of 3D games were janky compared to PS1 for most of the early period. Except for Sega's titles. And Lobodomy's.

Actually another situation is as bluemax notes, the PS3, when everybody was ignoring the Cell SPU's because "wtf are we supposed to use these for?" level familiarity that later went away.

Texture streaming also came mostly after launch, GTA III didn't have it for example. Nor any real culling of hidden polygons. Vice City had both.

I am, of course, a layman. Though I do remember arcane history in great detail as many know. So take this all with a pound of salt. I'm 100% right about the legitimacy of the state and the non-existence of market failures however.

benjipwns

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re: PS2 poly production vs. Xbox

IIRC, part of that was a bottleneck in the Xbox's RAM setup that killed the fillrate since the thing was built more for just brute forcing everything vs. the competitions more complex designs.

Part of why the 360 had a bit more elegant situation with that EDRAM on the die. (Which the PS2/GCN had done (or similar) before.)

Himu

  • Senior Member
aren't sony consoles traditionally hard to program for and ps4 is an anomaly in general from them?
IYKYK

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
The PS2 had what were two vector units, VU0 and VU1, this was before shaders were common which I think they could do a lot of similar functions to. Early PS2 games mostly only used one of them and for a few simple tasks when they, like modern compute units could actually do a whole bunch of them quickly. Especially one of the two which could do a lot of something, I think it was help chug out polygons? (IIRC, the PS2 actually could put out more polys than the GCN and Xbox as long as you just wanted flat polygons and it was in part due to this unit.)  So there are a number of early games where the DC version looks better due to this and the extra texture space. And it's why a lot of early PS2 games didn't have AA.

As the PC moved towards shaders, the GCN had equivalent units and the Xbox was for the time packed with them, they got the grasp on the PS2's which of course would be surpassed by the Xbox's which allowed for some serious normal mapping and stuff. I remember one developer saying you could combine every map and draw it once compared to having to draw each layer on the PS2 if you didn't use the units properly.

Basically you had a situation similar to the Saturn where nobody knew how to write good parallel code, or utilize the VDP2 properly, so they just ignored the second CPU. And so Saturn versions of 3D games were janky compared to PS1 for most of the early period. Except for Sega's titles. And Lobodomy's.

Actually another situation is as bluemax notes, the PS3, when everybody was ignoring the Cell SPU's because "wtf are we supposed to use these for?" level familiarity that later went away.

Texture streaming also came mostly after launch, GTA III didn't have it for example. Nor any real culling of hidden polygons. Vice City had both.

I am, of course, a layman. Though I do remember arcane history in great detail as many know. So take this all with a pound of salt. I'm 100% right about the legitimacy of the state and the non-existence of market failures however.
re: PS2 poly production vs. Xbox

IIRC, part of that was a bottleneck in the Xbox's RAM setup that killed the fillrate since the thing was built more for just brute forcing everything vs. the competitions more complex designs.

Part of why the 360 had a bit more elegant situation with that EDRAM on the die. (Which the PS2/GCN had done (or similar) before.)