Mike Brown shooting thread - No indictment! Get out and protest!

[Your Stalker]

Yeah let's keep acting like an 18 year old is a Resident Evil boss, brehs.

you never know with all these new age super negroes running around these days

[I'm a Puppy!]

Yeah let's keep acting like an 18 year old is a Resident Evil boss, brehs.

you never know with all these new age super negroes running around these days

Especially when they get the marijuana in them.

[Great Rumbler]

As darkness fell on Canfield Drive on August 9, a makeshift memorial sprang up in the middle of the street where Michael Brown's body had been sprawled in plain view for more than four hours. Flowers and candles were scattered over the bloodstains on the pavement. Someone had affixed a stuffed animal to a streetlight pole a few yards away. Neighborhood residents and others were gathering, many of them upset and angry.

Soon, police vehicles reappeared, including from the St. Louis County Police Department, which had taken control of the investigation. Several officers emerged with dogs. What happened next, according to several sources, was emblematic of what has inflamed the city of Ferguson, Missouri, ever since the unarmed 18-year-old was gunned down: An officer on the street let the dog he was controlling urinate on the memorial site.

The day brought other indignities for Brown's family, and the community. Missouri state Rep. Sharon Pace, whose district includes the neighborhood where the shooting occurred, told me she went to the scene that afternoon to comfort the parents, who were blocked by police from approaching their son's body. Pace purchased some tea lights for the family, and around 7 p.m. she joined Brown's mother, Lesley McSpadden, and others as they placed the candles and sprinkled flowers on the ground where Brown had died. "They spelled out his initials with rose petals over the bloodstains," Pace recalled.

By then, police had prohibited all vehicles from entering Canfield Drive except for their own. Soon the candles and flowers had been smashed, after police drove over them.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/ferguson-st-louis-police-tactics-dogs-michael-brown

[Boogie]

If you believe that the only or most likely explanation for the location of the head wound is that Brown charged the officer, during which he received five shots first, you're fucking crazy. End of discussion. We're not talking about some combatants in Vietnam dusted off angeldust and adrenaline shrugging off gun shots. MOST people under normal circumstances would be down after one shot, maybe two. Go watch some ISIS videos and see how people react to getting shot in the leg.

I am not endorsing the police version of the story.  I am not saying  anything about the incident itself.

But the above statement  is complete ignorant bullshit that has no bearing  to reality.  PD, you have no idea what you are talking about, and the fact that you watch some YouTube videos, and then style yourself expert enough to declare "end of discussion"  on your completely wrong opinion is absurd.

There has been a LOT of poor police behaviour in the past few weeks, and a lot of reasons to be pissed and outraged over that fact, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to give you a pass for being a dumbass and acting like an expert about it.  You are wrong.  Period.

[Phoenix Dark]

If you believe that the only or most likely explanation for the location of the head wound is that Brown charged the officer, during which he received five shots first, you're fucking crazy. End of discussion. We're not talking about some combatants in Vietnam dusted off angeldust and adrenaline shrugging off gun shots. MOST people under normal circumstances would be down after one shot, maybe two. Go watch some ISIS videos and see how people react to getting shot in the leg.

I am not endorsing the police version of the story.  I am not saying  anything about the incident itself.

But the above statement  is complete ignorant bullshit that has no bearing  to reality.  PD, you have no idea what you are talking about, and the fact that you watch some YouTube videos, and then style yourself expert enough to declare "end of discussion"  on your completely wrong opinion is absurd.

There has been a LOT of poor police behaviour in the past few weeks, and a lot of reasons to be pissed and outraged over that fact, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to give you a pass for being a dumbass and acting like an expert about it.  You are wrong.  Period.

Deal with it. I'll say it again: if you believe THAT story is the most likely explanation you're crazy. Or a police officer making excuses for a fellow officer.

This has nothing to do with "being an expert" at shit. You don't need to be an expert to figure out that getting shot five times, including multiple shots in the leg, would drop the average person. The idea that he took five bullets and kept charging is ludicrous, and if you can't acknowledge that I can't fuck with you right now bro.  Especially after the audio.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

If you believe that the only or most likely explanation for the location of the head wound is that Brown charged the officer, during which he received five shots first, you're fucking crazy. End of discussion. We're not talking about some combatants in Vietnam dusted off angeldust and adrenaline shrugging off gun shots. MOST people under normal circumstances would be down after one shot, maybe two. Go watch some ISIS videos and see how people react to getting shot in the leg.

I am not endorsing the police version of the story.  I am not saying  anything about the incident itself.

But the above statement  is complete ignorant bullshit that has no bearing  to reality.  PD, you have no idea what you are talking about, and the fact that you watch some YouTube videos, and then style yourself expert enough to declare "end of discussion"  on your completely wrong opinion is absurd.

There has been a LOT of poor police behaviour in the past few weeks, and a lot of reasons to be pissed and outraged over that fact, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to give you a pass for being a dumbass and acting like an expert about it.  You are wrong.  Period.

Deal with it. I'll say it again: if you believe THAT story is the most likely explanation you're crazy. Or a police officer making excuses for a fellow officer.

This has nothing to do with "being an expert" at shit. You don't need to be an expert to figure out that getting shot five times, including multiple shots in the leg, would drop the average person. The idea that he took five bullets and kept charging is ludicrous, and if you can't acknowledge that I can't fuck with you right now bro.  Especially after the audio.

Most of us knew the minute we heard what happened that two things were gonna happen

1) Thug pics would be posted
2) He would somehow have superhuman powers and required being shot multiple times.

Funny how the fucking world works.

[Boogie]

If you believe that the only or most likely explanation for the location of the head wound is that Brown charged the officer, during which he received five shots first, you're fucking crazy. End of discussion. We're not talking about some combatants in Vietnam dusted off angeldust and adrenaline shrugging off gun shots. MOST people under normal circumstances would be down after one shot, maybe two. Go watch some ISIS videos and see how people react to getting shot in the leg.

I am not endorsing the police version of the story.  I am not saying  anything about the incident itself.

But the above statement  is complete ignorant bullshit that has no bearing  to reality.  PD, you have no idea what you are talking about, and the fact that you watch some YouTube videos, and then style yourself expert enough to declare "end of discussion"  on your completely wrong opinion is absurd.

There has been a LOT of poor police behaviour in the past few weeks, and a lot of reasons to be pissed and outraged over that fact, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to give you a pass for being a dumbass and acting like an expert about it.  You are wrong.  Period.

This has nothing to do with "being an expert" at shit. You don't need to be an expert to figure out that getting shot five times, including multiple shots in the leg, would drop the average person. The idea that he took five bullets and kept charging is ludicrous, and if you can't acknowledge that I can't fuck with you right now bro.  Especially after the audio.

You're right, my bad.  Carry on folks, the accountant definitely knows what he's talking about here.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

If you believe that the only or most likely explanation for the location of the head wound is that Brown charged the officer, during which he received five shots first, you're fucking crazy. End of discussion. We're not talking about some combatants in Vietnam dusted off angeldust and adrenaline shrugging off gun shots. MOST people under normal circumstances would be down after one shot, maybe two. Go watch some ISIS videos and see how people react to getting shot in the leg.

I am not endorsing the police version of the story.  I am not saying  anything about the incident itself.

But the above statement  is complete ignorant bullshit that has no bearing  to reality.  PD, you have no idea what you are talking about, and the fact that you watch some YouTube videos, and then style yourself expert enough to declare "end of discussion"  on your completely wrong opinion is absurd.

There has been a LOT of poor police behaviour in the past few weeks, and a lot of reasons to be pissed and outraged over that fact, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to give you a pass for being a dumbass and acting like an expert about it.  You are wrong.  Period.

This has nothing to do with "being an expert" at shit. You don't need to be an expert to figure out that getting shot five times, including multiple shots in the leg, would drop the average person. The idea that he took five bullets and kept charging is ludicrous, and if you can't acknowledge that I can't fuck with you right now bro.  Especially after the audio.

You're right, my bad.  Carry on folks, the accountant definitely knows what he's talking about here.

And you do? Let me clue you in on something. We've been seeing this shit since we were born. The story always plays out the same way. I don't give a fuck if you're an accountant or a shotgun crip...it don't matter what you are....it's ALWAYS been like this.

[TakingBackSunday]

I'm willing to hear Boogie's explanation of what he thinks went down.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea, please educate us, Boogie.

[TakingBackSunday]

I'm not being facetious, I'd actually like his expert opinion, he probably knows more than any of us how the situation might have gone down.  But I'm highly doubtful that a "he was charging the officer" ISN'T an attempt to portray Brown as a thug.

[octopushover]

I don't think Boogie is saying anything except that there's very little reason to "end of conversation" in that post.

[Rufus]

I don't think that's about painting him as a thug, but more about establishing that Wilson had to stop Brown with a couple more fatal shots, instead of, I dunno, running from a severely wounded man...

[CatsCatsCats]

 Gotta side with Boogs here. It's a fact that the negro's musculature allows them to ignore stopping power of basic ranged attacks, but only if they use their bull charge ability with their head down and arms out. Something you might not know without police experience, I guess.

[benjipwns]

Gotta side with Boogs here. It's a fact that the negro's musculature allows them to ignore stopping power of basic ranged attacks, but only if they use their bull charge ability with their head down and arms out. Something you might not know without police experience, I guess.

That's only if they've leveled up enough, this thug was spending all his time on the devil weed and robbing stores which give you real low XP instead of taking basic leveling up quests like kill 10 honkies and steal their loot.

[I'm a Puppy!]

I have yet to see someone who believes the police story actually explain anything about how it would work other than throwing up their hands and saying "You just don't get it!"

OK, then help us "get it". Explain why everyone's wrong. Don't just throw up your hands and walk away. Otherwise people will suspect, rightly, that you're just being indignant to be indignant and you got nothing.

[Steve Contra]

What we really need is a vortex explanation that will solve everything.

[benjipwns]

I have yet to see someone who believes the police story actually explain anything about how it would work other than throwing up their hands and saying "You just don't get it!"

OK, then help us "get it". Explain why everyone's wrong. Don't just throw up your hands and walk away. Otherwise people will suspect, rightly, that you're just being indignant to be indignant and you got nothing.

The problem is that there isn't actually a "police story" as Wilson never filed an incident report. And the only one the police issued was a basic one that says who/what/where somebody got shot. So you have to wait for the county investigation and as of last week they *still* hadn't received a report from Wilson himself.

So of the two direct witnesses, we have one dead, and the other in hiding refusing to give a statement.

Everything else has come from "friends of Wilson" and FPD "sources" who were then walked back or irrelevant. And for the "other side" it's been bystanders who, it's often pointed out accurately by Wilson defenders, are generally unreliable at best. The advantage of the latter is that 85% of them seem to have some shared details in their versions.

The thing a lot of people seem to be missing despite the regular Zimmerman comparisons is that Zimmerman gave his version of events the first night and multiple times thereafter, a huge advantage which meant the prosecution had to then pick away at his overall version. Wilson hasn't done this which is beyond strange as especially as an officer he would receive a massive benefit of the doubt for his version.

[Joe Molotov]

What we really need is a vortex explanation that will solve everything.

Well, I mean maybe a vortex could have sucked the bullets out of Wilson's gun; were you there??

[Brehvolution]

I love when Stewart reads the turd leaves that drop from bullshit mountain.

[Positive Touch]

welp it turns out I knew one of the people who got shot in the protests. don't remember what day it was, but everyone was saying three was a dead body in the street on Twitter. the bullet didn't kill him, but only because of a damn miracle. it's lodged so close to his heart that they can't remove it, and they're still not sure how he'll end up. he's currently still in the icu, as the police put 24/7 security on him, claiming it's "protection." like every other time someone was shot out there, the cops are claiming the bullet came from another protester, always implying there was an argument or some such. dude was shot by a rifle tho, so :rolleyes

and as much as I can't stand the southside anarchist culture here and think that they're selfish appropriators, I wouldn't wish this on anyone and really really hope that he pulls thru.

fuck the police

[Great Rumbler]

Oh wow, I'm sorry to hear about that. Hope he gets better, and then sues the police department for medical bills.

[Positive Touch]

Lolol his parents are both professors iirc so I'm sure they'll be able to get whatever spare change the county pd still has left after all this is over and they're sued into oblivion by the community

[Boogie]

I'm not being facetious, I'd actually like his expert opinion, he probably knows more than any of us how the situation might have gone down.  But I'm highly doubtful that a "he was charging the officer" ISN'T an attempt to portray Brown as a thug.

I have no take on what happened.  I am not willing to defend the police account given the overall circumstances and other questionable behaviour surrounding this police force, nor am I willing to condemn Wilson when I do not know the truth.  I am not saying that I have faith that justice will be served or the truth to be definitively revealed with the passage of time.

Either Brown charged him and was killed in a series of shots while charging, or he wasn't.

BUT it is not a valid argument or a fatal blow to the police account to say that six shots is excessive because 1 or 2 shots would be enough to stop an aggressor.  That is wrong.  It has no basis in reality, and flies in the face of countless examples of justified shootings that required multiple hits to stop a threat.

It is simply a fact, that in a hypothetical "justified " shooting, a determined, motivated subject can fight through multiple gunshots from a pistol before being stopped by the shots.

If you believe that the Ferguson PD are out to lunch with bullshit, great.  Counter their story with logic, evidence and sound arguments.   But don't break out "1 or 2 shots are enough to stop just about anyone."  That argument is not open to you.  It has no basis in reality.

[Rufus]

It is simply a fact, that in a hypothetical "justified " shooting, a determined, motivated subject can fight through multiple gunshots from a pistol before being stopped by the shots.

How far can they go?

[Madrun Badrun]

This is no time for calm and rational reasoning Boogie.  Choose a side copper!

[I'm a Puppy!]

Feels like a tootsie pop commercial.
"How many shots does it take to stop the charging black guy?"
"one, two....eleven."

[Joe Molotov]

It is simply a fact, that in a hypothetical "justified " shooting, a determined, motivated subject can fight through multiple gunshots from a pistol before being stopped by the shots.

How far can they go?

11 bullets worth.

[Rufus]

It was a serious question though. :c

[Boogie]

It was a serious question though. :c

There is no hard answer to that question, it depends on many factors.

Different situation, not a police shooting :
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/08/26/woman-killed-in-nightclub-shooting

Just happened this week.  Woman is shot once and dies.  Male shot "Up to six times" (edit: apparently 5 times) and is still able to walk a block and a half to a gas station to call 911.  There's some security video footage showing that he's walking at a fair pace for being shot multiple times.

[benjipwns]

I think the most important factor is probably where you get shot. If Brown is shot in the wrist during that first volley he's going to be able to do a lot more throwing cars and leaping tall buildings than if he's shot in the chest or head.

Don't remember, did the autopsy give any guesses as to the order of the shots Brown took? That's incredibly difficult but they sometimes can theorize.

Though I guess having just his body and none of his clothes or anything makes it even more difficult and unlikely.

[Himu]

Any time I see some moron brings up why media aren't covering the story in Utah compared to Ferguson, a kitten dies.

Or the classic, how come any time a black person kills a white person Al Sharpton doesn't come out?

As you can tell, I was on reddit.

[Boogie]

Story in Utah?

[Himu]

Story in Utah?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/25/critics-see-racial-double-standard-in-coverage-of-/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

[benjipwns]

Uh, I don't think the Brown shooting was getting much of any attention until people protested it.

Maybe people in SLC should get out and protest police actions?

[Himu]

Uh, I don't think the Brown shooting was getting much of any attention until people protested it.

Maybe people in SLC should get out and protest police actions?

They think there's a racial inequality because the police officer in the Utah situation was black (their words) and the victim white, showing that no one cares about black on white crime. Or something.

[Madrun Badrun]

well ya, because Ferguson isn't really about a single black kid getting shot

[benjipwns]

It says he's a "white Hispanic" so I guess white people really did decide to claim Zimmerman.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Chief Jon Belmar said Wednesday that in his opinion -- as well as in the opinion of police chiefs around the country -- much of the military-style equipment now used by police is necessary “because we patrol very urban areas.”

the most west county thing that has ever been said

[I'm a Puppy!]

See, by "urban" he means "black"

[Your Stalker]

You don't go into the jungle with babby weapons, why would an urban environment be any different?

[Kara]

How do you y'all know he wasn't talking about urban camouflage.

[benjipwns]

The whole idea is getting the right color shoe polish.

[Madrun Badrun]

See, by "urban" he means "black"

yeah, i'm surprised he's not aware that everyone knows exactly what the fuck people mean when they say 'urban'.

Thats the scary thing, when racism is institutionalized like that, they probably don't even get what they said was wrong. 

[Phoenix Dark]

It was a serious question though. :c

There is no hard answer to that question, it depends on many factors.

Different situation, not a police shooting :
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/08/26/woman-killed-in-nightclub-shooting

Just happened this week.  Woman is shot once and dies.  Male shot "Up to six times" (edit: apparently 5 times) and is still able to walk a block and a half to a gas station to call 911.  There's some security video footage showing that he's walking at a fair pace for being shot multiple times.

I figured you'd be posting some study or actual evidence, not one example.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Shooting moose and polar bears is not the same as shooting an urban thug 

[sarslip]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ufqeuz/race-off

"Yes, describing the actual facts of the case, does color the way we look at it."
 

but also

spoiler (click to show/hide)

:'(

[close]

[Himu]

Boogie is also Canadian so he's a trust worthy police officer unlike an american one.

[Phoenix Dark]

Boogie is also Canadian so he's a trust worthy police officer unlike an american one.

He probably spends as much time behind a desk as I do.

:trollbron:

[Boogie]

I figured you'd be posting some study or actual evidence, not one example.

I am not going to comb the internet to find links for you.

I would think that it is self-evident that whatever knowledge I have on this subject was not gleaned from having my butt planted at home in front of my desktop monitor.   I have attended regular use-of-force training and recertification, and this consists of more than simply practising techniques and handcuffing.  It includes lectures from experts on the hows and whys of use-of-force policy and best practises, with studies and examples cited. It includes reading articles and examples that are disseminated in police department newsletters and e-mail chains.  And I have read a few books on the subject (Dave Grossman's stuff touches on it a bit).

If you cannot accept as a given, based on what should be able to be assumed simply from what you already know about me (which should include the above), that I know what I am talking about, well, that's a  shame.   But I am not going to go through all the motions of "proving" my bona fides and digging up studies on a subject that, in law enforcement circles, is a given.

tl;dr: what Oscar said.

[Phoenix Dark]

In short, absolutely nothing.
http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=42162.msg1918621#msg1918621

[Madrun Badrun]

Thread results in a show down between a white cop and a black dude.  PD just know if you get murdered in the digital realm, I'll personally create the protest thread. 

[Madrun Badrun]

Seriously, PD was just minding his own business, trying to pick up some cigarillos, and this cop gets all in his face.  I was there; saw it all. There was an argument and shots were fired.

[Kara]

Cigarillos? Why you gotta bring PD's ambiguous sexuality into this?

[benjipwns]

Minnesota City Pages identified the man, who spoke to them, as Chris Lollie. He was arrested for "disorderly conduct" and "obstructing the legal process," and was charged with those crimes as well as trespassing. They were, unsurprisingly, all dropped. Police insist they were dealing with an "uncooperative male refusing to leave" and said there were no complaints filed after the incident (many incidents of police brutality can go unreported), which happened in January but video of which only emerged online this month. The YouTube user who posted claims the cellphone was seized for six months (likely the length of time before charges were dropped and the "investigation" ended).

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Should have been taken to jail for shooting in portrait.

[close]

[Great Rumbler]

"If you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me."

[benjipwns]

Typical, U.N. doesn't wait for all the facts to come in before passing judgement.

[Kara]

Y'all know people are going to look at the countries who have seats on CERD (e.g. Algeria, Russia, PRC) and just dismiss that statement right?

[Joe Molotov]

I knew this kind of thing was going to happen as soon as King Obama turned over our national sovereignty to the UN. Now we can't even brutalize our own citizens any more without a sternly worded report.

[benjipwns]

Y'all know people are going to look at the countries who have seats on CERD (e.g. Algeria, Russia, PRC) and just dismiss that statement right?

I dismissed it because it was from any part of the U.N.

The lone exception I make is for the U.N. School: