Continuing our cultural impact vote (sports edition)

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Vote 

No worries, we'll do pop culture next non-sports fans.

[Human Snorenado]

Right now, probably LeBron. Ten years ago, Tiger might have been the most well known athlete in the world.

Mayweather is in neither of their classes. His sport is increasingly irrelevant.

[TVC15]

What's a LeBron?

[CatsCatsCats]

I voted Woods, but it's probably LeBron?

I just remember Woods in his prime making big waves

[jakefromstatefarm]

Is golf dying in the states brehs? I don't think it's ever been a kid sport so idk if that's relevant.

Follow-up: is the MLB dying? It's being eclipsed by the NBA in terms of sheer numbers is pretty much a given but is it freal dying? I feel like it's grip on Latin America isn't going away any time soon.

[Reb]

In Holland: out of these Tiger Woods no doubt.

Worldwide Esch probably nailed it in the first reply.

[Phoenix Dark]

Tiger Woods' impact isn't as global as many athletes. He's definitely had huge impact in the US but I wouldn't put him higher than a variety of athletes. In terms of the most important athlete to his sport? Tiger would top that list easily. Golf revolves around him, and his absence hurts the sport in a way that simply isn't comparable to anyone else.

LeBron is the biggest, most powerful athlete in the world right now, and probably the biggest since Jordan.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

[CatsCatsCats]

Lookin to the right of LeBron, wish that was animated

[Phoenix Dark]

Wait are you saying Ronaldo is bigger than LeBron James?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Wait are you saying Ronaldo is bigger than LeBron James?

Uh.....

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?word1=Cristiano+Ronaldo&word2=Lebron+James

[Phoenix Dark]

Meanwhile in the real word
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/06/30/lebron-james-tops-worlds-most-powerful-athletes-2014/

edit: obviously I don't agree Mayweather>Ronaldo

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Meanwhile in the real word
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/06/30/lebron-james-tops-worlds-most-powerful-athletes-2014/

edit: obviously I don't agree Mayweather>Ronaldo

Not once soccer player in the top 10 makes me extremely skeptical of this list. No Messi? No Ronaldo? No Neymar?

[Phoenix Dark]

Ronaldo is on the list.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Ronaldo is on the list.

Behind Kobe? Behind a fucking tennis player? Behind Mayweather? He may be on the list but he isn't ON the list.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Meanwhile in the real word
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/06/30/lebron-james-tops-worlds-most-powerful-athletes-2014/

edit: obviously I don't agree Mayweather>Ronaldo

A Forbes list that cites beats deals and shit you sound like a 50 cent stan

American insecurity y'all they even know Ronaldo earns more and gets more love on social media

Perhaps but I'll tell ya this...Lebron is 5 times the athlete that Ronaldo is, and that's not even up for debate.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Perhaps but I'll tell ya this. Lebron is 5 times the athlete Ronaldo is, and that's not even up for debate.

Sure, if you want to go by combine stats or some shit. I don't care.

Ronaldo will have a longer and more lasting impact on his sport than Bron. Bron has already been on the decline. He wont win another ring. Meanwhile Ronaldo has more titles under his belt, is about to hit 30 and shows little sign of slowing down. Deservedly won player of the year too. Is that gonna happen with Bron Bron this year? For sure

American insecurity

Fuck stats, I'm talking physically Lebron is Godzilla and Ronaldo is a woman.



That foreign inability to recognize anybody but people who run a lot....

[Am_I_Anonymous]

  I don't judge men or athletes by their bodies but

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

Cute, but one of these guys is 6'8 265 and runs like he's 5'8 and jumps like he's got springs.



Think Ronaldo would win in arm wrestling? much less a foot race? a fight? lol...The only thing he can do better than Lebron is kick a ball.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Judge him by that. Let me know when Ronaldo can jump over a dude.

[Phoenix Dark]

First Esch took Jackson over Jordan, now Ronaldo over LeBron...

I'm sensing a blatant prejudice against dark skin.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Again, great soccer player. Mediocre athlete in any other sport at best.

Lebron: Best Basketball player, could have NFL career, etc......

Besides here in the states more people would recognize Messi 

here's esch's hero showing how he got to the top

[CatsCatsCats]

Again, great soccer player. Mediocre athlete in any other sport at best.

Lebron: Best Basketball player, could have NFL career, etc......

Besides here in the states more people would recognize Messi

Gonna have to call bullshit on that, sorry.

Also, speculating what other sports athletes would be good at is meaningless in a discussion of cultural impact

[Phoenix Dark]

I prefer Messi simply because dude seems more relate-able to me. Dude just looks like he rode the short bus as a kid. Not saying I rode the short bus but I feel we'd have more in common, whereas Ronaldo seems like a pretty boy asshole.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Struggling to remember when I included Ronaldo on my list

 

[Phoenix Dark]

plus didn't I hear Messi crumbles in big games? That's certainly LeBron-esque.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

plus didn't I hear Messi crumbles in big games? That's certainly LeBron-esque.
(Image removed from quote.)

Meh, in my opinion soccer is 60% who much your owner can pay to buy players, 35% luck, and 5% skill..which makes it must equivalent to baseball in my book.

Watching the world cup was like dribbling hot liquid into my eyes.

[Phoenix Dark]

no wonder he's friends with Kobe

[jakefromstatefarm]

yooo are we shitting on tennis wrt global cultural impact? Federer at the height of his popularity was SS-tier, even stateside

[seagrams hotsauce]

plus didn't I hear Messi crumbles in big games? That's certainly LeBron-esque.
(Image removed from quote.)

Meh, in my opinion soccer is 60% who much your owner can pay to buy players, 35% luck, and 5% skill..which makes it must equivalent to baseball in my book.

Watching the world cup was like dribbling hot liquid into my eyes.

I'm not following. The most important thing is being able to afford a roster, but that rosters actual skill on the field barely matters? Huh?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Meh, in my opinion soccer is 60% who much your owner can pay to buy players, 35% luck, and 5% skill..which makes it must equivalent to baseball in my book.

Watching the world cup was like dribbling hot liquid into my eyes.

Your opinion doesn't mean shit. Here's a fact; Soccer is the only sport in the world where if you want a chance to be decent you have to go to dedicated school (academy) for it and work on your skills from a young age. No fucking around at AAU, no Nike camps, no chilling at college and getting your dick sucked at the drop of a hat for being a starter. you have to join an army and clamber your way through it to the top or you get shitcanned. and even then you might not make first team at a good club. That's how skill and performance demanding soccer is.

Mmm'kay because you're right, I did nothing at college but get my dick sucked. I mean practice and go to school? Nah. Working out 6 days a week, dealing with injuries, etc....hell no it was straight getting my D hoovered 24/7.

Get right the fuck out with that bullshit. 

Every second you spent in college trying to level up your pokemon and flailing at women I was working. You were on the couch and I was on the weights....you were eating taco bell and I was running steps all the while trying to educate myself as well.

[CatsCatsCats]

Sorry dude, Esch got you on that one, international football isn't easy

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Sorry dude, Esch got you on that one, international football isn't easy

Honestly I was trolling until he said we don't do shit in college, now I'm mildly heated.  I have nothing but respect for guys like Messi.

[jakefromstatefarm]

as if on cue AIA retreats to his ad homiem dick measuring

I don't wanna say the youth development in basketball is as laissez faire as Esch is portraying it, but in terms of volume of investment soccer >>>>>> basketball globally. Also financial constraints on squads is irrelevant, franchises/clubs have to navigate the financial system in their given league, welcome to every professional sport ever.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Mmm'kay because you're right, I did nothing at college but get my dick sucked. I mean practice and go to school? Nah. Working out 6 days a week, dealing with injuries, etc....hell no it was straight getting my D hoovered 24/7.

Get right the fuck out with that bullshit. 

Not saying you didn't work hard or didn't deserve your spot. but you had things academy players dont: you could live a normal teen life and shit. Imagine being scouted at age 4-6 and then basically taken off to a sports monastery that's part of a pro team, and if you dont succeed you literally wasted 10-20+ years  of your life. You graduated with a degree and education. A failed academy player has nothing. It's like signing a pro contract with no salary when you're 6. but if you don't get that skill development you can't succeed.

Ask Wrath / Death Ghidorah. He got an offer as a kid when he was young for the AS Roma academy and his brother got one for Arsenal.  But they had to turn it down because of the risk and low level of reward.


Or you can read about it yourself, this is one of the world's best academies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Like I said I was trolling, I have read a ton about futbol because it fascinates me how they acquire their talent.

But let me tell you a bit about college.....

To get into the NCAA at a football program you are top 5% in the country. You start putting in that work when you are 12. You also need to keep your grades up and stay out of trouble. Then when you do sign you work even harder.

When you get to college your first year isn't like everyone else...first they segregate your in athletic dorms. Then your start grinding on a level that seems almost hazardous. You're up every day at 8, you're running by 8:30, you go home, go to class, hit the weights, then go to practice. You have a curfew, you have a weight goal, your coach screams at you to keep your grades up, you have 1,000's of people who want you to fuck up. ........Then you don't get one thing everybody should have...time to be alone.

If I'm on campus, people want to talk.

If I'm in class, people want to talk.

If I'm home the phone is always ringing....coach, reporter, teammate, coach, reporter, teammate, crazy bitch, coach, teammate, etc.

You go to school with more pain that most people will experience in their life. Torn tendons? Go to class.....concussion? go to class.

Anyway just saying being able to ONLY focus on football would have been a blessing. However the degree you earn is worth well more than the career you may have post college. And what worries me about the 99% who never play professionally in soccer....what happens next? You  are undereducated and washed up.....how many resort to drugs/die early? That's what I want to know.

[Phoenix Dark]

Meh, in my opinion soccer is 60% who much your owner can pay to buy players, 35% luck, and 5% skill..which makes it must equivalent to baseball in my book.

Watching the world cup was like dribbling hot liquid into my eyes.

Your opinion doesn't mean shit. Here's a fact; Soccer is the only sport in the world where if you want a chance to be decent you have to go to dedicated school (academy) for it and work on your skills from a young age. No fucking around at AAU, no Nike camps, no chilling at college and getting your dick sucked at the drop of a hat for being a starter. you have to join an army and clamber your way through it to the top or you get shitcanned. and even then you might not make first team at a good club. That's how skill and performance demanding soccer is.

That seems more an issue of public infrastructure than anything else. The US has countless high schools with the money to support top notch football programs, especially in the south and midwest. States like Alabama, Iowa, Ohio, etc become farming systems for college programs. Countries in South America simply don't have the money to support a similar system so it's more centralized. Same applies to much of Europe.

Top notch football programs work on skills from a young age too. I'm sure AiA can attest to that. If you're an o-line prospect in Iowa you're going to have a variety of things drilled into you from 8th to 12th grade.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Meh, in my opinion soccer is 60% who much your owner can pay to buy players, 35% luck, and 5% skill..which makes it must equivalent to baseball in my book.

Watching the world cup was like dribbling hot liquid into my eyes.

Your opinion doesn't mean shit. Here's a fact; Soccer is the only sport in the world where if you want a chance to be decent you have to go to dedicated school (academy) for it and work on your skills from a young age. No fucking around at AAU, no Nike camps, no chilling at college and getting your dick sucked at the drop of a hat for being a starter. you have to join an army and clamber your way through it to the top or you get shitcanned. and even then you might not make first team at a good club. That's how skill and performance demanding soccer is.

That seems more an issue of public infrastructure than anything else. The US has countless high schools with the money to support top notch football programs, especially in the south and midwest. States like Alabama, Iowa, Ohio, etc become farming systems for college programs. Countries in South America simply don't have the money to support a similar system so it's more centralized. Same applies to much of Europe.

Top notch football programs work on skills from a young age too. I'm sure AiA can attest to that. If you're an o-line prospect in Iowa you're going to have a variety of things drilled into you from 8th to 12th grade, and your skill determines whether you go to a legit HS or a regular one.

For every Jameis Winston there are a shitload of anonymous guys who grind everyday because they love the sport and don't get away with shit.

And if you're lucky enough to be deemed a pro prospect the NFL has ways of spying on your the CIA would covet.

Hey AiA, why did you punch that guy at that party in 1995? What did he do? Are you an angry person. Now mind you there were about 6 people around me at that time. Scary.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Like I said, not saying you didn't work your ass off or getting in via the NCAA route isn't tough . It's this part:

However the degree you earn is worth well more than the career you may have post college. And what worries me about the 99% who never play professionally in soccer....what happens next? You  are undereducated and washed up.....how many resort to drugs/die early? That's what I want to know.

that makes the prospect of even trying to become a pro soccer player terrifying.

But it's better than the NCAA system as far as skill development and player creation as far as soccer goes.. Its one of the reasons pro soccer players from the USA fail to make the cut. They don't have the touch or the cultivated vision. They just started playing 10 month seasons, etc.

Seems like a big gamble unless you're an elite level talent. I can see why people like DG avoided it. So much risk up front and afterward. And I imagine if you tear your knee up you get a big "fuck you" and a ticket back home. Although to be honest a big school like Michigan or Texas would do the same thing.  Oh you're hurt and out for a year? We have 5 guys coming in, have a great life.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

That seems more an issue of public infrastructure than anything else. The US has countless high schools with the money to support top notch football programs, especially in the south and midwest. States like Alabama, Iowa, Ohio, etc become farming systems for college programs. Countries in South America simply don't have the money to support a similar system so it's more centralized. Same applies to much of Europe.

Top notch football programs work on skills from a young age too. I'm sure AiA can attest to that. If you're an o-line prospect in Iowa you're going to have a variety of things drilled into you from 8th to 12th grade.

Nope. south america and Africa have academies too. Plenty of them turn out good talent too; Santos, River Plate, Mimosas etc.

NCAA and college soccer players aren't good enough. which is why the first generations of american academy products are starting to get taken seriously abroad (DeAndre Yedlin, Agudelo, etc). And all MLS clubs are in the process of making academies.

i can't see the US allowing an academy to pull a kid out of schooling at age 8 though? I mean it's a great thing because I'm a proud guy and want to see American's go dominate internationally....I just think we don't allow this to happen on the level required.

[Beezy]

preemptive



(Image removed from quote.)

I don't know who they are.

[jakefromstatefarm]

However the degree you earn is worth well more than the career you may have post college. And what worries me about the 99% who never play professionally in soccer....what happens next? You  are undereducated and washed up.....how many resort to drugs/die early? That's what I want to know.

Although to be honest a big school like Michigan or Texas would do the same thing.  Oh you're hurt and out for a year? We have 5 guys coming in, have a great life.

I was gonna say, high major programs work pretty similarly. Career ending injury, unless this is your final year were pulling your scholarship. You aren't panning out as a prospect, we have 3 guys coming in next year so you're 'suggested' to transfer.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

i can't see the US allowing an academy to pull a kid out of schooling at age 8 though? I mean it's a great thing because I'm a proud guy and want to see American's go dominate internationally....I just think we don't allow this to happen on the level required.

they get actual schooling at the academies in the mornings too lol. Like graduating a shitty, easy high school.

And yeah it is necessary. Not just to see Americans do well in the big 3 leagues, but also to raise the talent pool in MLS. For every kid that graduates from the LA Galaxy academy and doesn't play in a big league he might go to MLS, then retire and do local youth coaching (which is super flawed in America and one of our biggest problems in the sport)

Don't get me wrong. Give the USA an even floor with the rest of the world and we'll be Top 5 within 20 years. It won't happen quick but we are the melting pot. Our team would be impressive.

[Fifstar]

,Imagine being scouted at age 4-6 and then basically taken off to a sports monastery that's part of a pro team, and if you dont succeed you literally wasted 10-20+ years  of your life. You graduated with a degree and education. A failed academy player has nothing. It's like signing a pro contract with no salary when you're 6. but if you don't get that skill development you can't succeed.

Not saying but not every top player has to go through such a harsh development. A lot of players are discovered only after they're 12-14 years old. Acting like 6 years old is a normal age for a soccer player to move to the youth team from a pro club is really reaching. The strength of the european leagues is that even villages with 500 inhabitants have a football club that is integrated into the national league system. If a young player shows talent, he might go to a somewhat bigger city, where the chances that he gets scouted by bigger clubs increase. You don't have to waste your whole childhood away to become a top soccer player. Also, there are more than enough stories of young players like Götze or Draxler of how they went partying. Amsterdam is an extreme example. I think due to their relatively small population they had to develop such an "advanced" scouting system.
It is true that a lot of young teens that think they have a shot tend to subordinate everything to training for soccer though. Had a friend in school that didn't touch alcohol or went to parties until he was 18 and realized he didn't have a chance to become a pro.

Regarding this question, I'd assume Tiger Woods at his peak was bigger than Lebron peak, but now Lebron should be more well known.

[Fifstar]

However the degree you earn is worth well more than the career you may have post college. And what worries me about the 99% who never play professionally in soccer....what happens next? You  are undereducated and washed up.....how many resort to drugs/die early? That's what I want to know.

that makes the prospect of even trying to become a pro soccer player terrifying.

??

Players that are in the youth camp of a pro club go to school like everybody else, they probably have it easier to get a higher level secondary education because they get a lot of support, are monitored closely and I suppose sometimes have it easier with the teachers (maybe due to pressure of the clubs). A lot of german players have the highest level of secondary education even though they seem dumb as hell in interviews... If they're not good enough, they go to university or learn a job just like anybody else. Tertiary education starts only after it's clear if you have a real shot at becoming a pro. Of course, if the dream of becoming a big player after training hard for years is crushed a lot of people will develop some mental problems, but I don't believe they're worse off than in any other sport where you can become a big star...

[Fifstar]

Not sure if the german and american school system are really comparable here.

Tertiary education = university or "apprenticeship" (where you get a training in a specific job field at a company plus vocational school for three years)

You can only go to university if you have the highest level of secondary education.

Both types of tertiary education are directly qualifying for a job, so not useless at all. Theyre basically mandatory if you want to get a proper job...

[Fifstar]

Well nobody (except the state) has to pay for school, university or any education (unless it is a private school, which are pretty rare) because all public education is free, except for some small fee that give you access to public transport in the case of universities. The academies normally don't have an own school (although I believe some actually have that as well), but they provide support like private tutors. Tertiary education starts at an age of 17-20, depending on your course of education. So a youth player that fails to become a pro hasn't really lost much if any time compared to his contemporaries.

What the youth programs of the big clubs do, is make sure that their players get a decent level of secondary education, so they have just the same chances as anybody else to enter tertiary education. Secondary education lasts until you're 16-19 years old, depending on the level of school you go to.

Edit: Academies don't provide support for tertiary education, but players that failed to become a pro have the same level of secondary education as a normal person and they have the chance to start tertiary education around the same age as a normal person. So there is basically no disadvantage education wise.

[Phoenix Dark]

That seems more an issue of public infrastructure than anything else. The US has countless high schools with the money to support top notch football programs, especially in the south and midwest. States like Alabama, Iowa, Ohio, etc become farming systems for college programs. Countries in South America simply don't have the money to support a similar system so it's more centralized. Same applies to much of Europe.

Top notch football programs work on skills from a young age too. I'm sure AiA can attest to that. If you're an o-line prospect in Iowa you're going to have a variety of things drilled into you from 8th to 12th grade.

Nope. south america and Africa have academies too. Plenty of them turn out good talent too; Santos, River Plate, Mimosas etc.

NCAA and college soccer players aren't good enough. which is why the first generations of american academy products are starting to get taken seriously abroad (DeAndre Yedlin, Agudelo, etc). And all MLS clubs are in the process of making academies.

I'm not talking about the NCAA. I'm talking about HS development of talent. It's simply a fact that the US has better public infrastructure and funding in those regards breh. There are academies in South America and Africa but surely you must admit that a poor kid in the US would have easier access to a top HS football program than a poor kid in Brazil does getting into a top academy.

The problem with US soccer has nothing to do with the NCAA, it has to do with HS. There just isn't a serious enough focus on it in this country, and there isn't a farming system like there is for football in the south, midwest, etc. I'd expect this to change as soccer becomes more popular, but they're simply too far behind football to catch up in the long term. HS/state budgets are limited and have no incentive not to focus on football over soccer.

If I had to bet I'd say the west coast has the best chance of beginning the process of farming soccer talent. Texas makes sense on paper (immigration) but football dominates the state too much.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's quite different for US basketball btw. Kobe Bryant made a great point recently about AAU ruining US players from a young age, where athleticism>skill. LeBron is very skilled now but it's clear he could have used some skill refining in HS or college (if he had gone). Whereas Kobe spent years in European basketball camps before coming to the US for high school and dominating. Dwight Howard is another guy who looks like he was never coached properly.

When I played AAU the star treatment was obvious. The best players were constantly babied. I remember seeing Manny Harris and some other guys not even have to run drills with their team before games. There was a guy on my team who would constantly be late, didn't put any effort into drills etc...yet the coach never said shit since Michigan State was monitoring him; the coach's perspective was pretty clear - having a star recruit on your team would allow him to recruit more players ("X was on my team, now he's playing at MSU"), so why potentially scare him away with discipline?

I still think the US will dominate basketball in the near future because the athleticism is indeed so much better,  but we're going to get to a point where more and more role players are European. And I definitely think we'll see a shift back to skilled big men. The center position seems to be losing importance in a sense for instance, but we're seeing a lot of Euro big men who aren't pussies, aren't afraid to bang on the block, etc.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

It's quite different for US basketball btw. Kobe Bryant made a great point recently about AAU ruining US players from a young age, where athleticism>skill. LeBron is very skilled now but it's clear he could have used some skill refining in HS or college (if he had gone). Whereas Kobe spent years in European basketball camps before coming to the US for high school and dominating. D

Wut? Lebron is way WAY more skilled than Kobe. Better passer, better floor general, better going to the rim, better defender (when he feels like it), better handles, better rebounder, and about an equal level jumpshot if not better than Kobe's.

This Kobe fucking wankery has GOT to stop.

Lebron's first year:  20.9 ppg  5.9 apg  5.5 rpg  1.6 spg  .7 blg

Bryan't first year: 7.6 ppg  1.9rpg 1.3 apg .7 spg .3 bpg

Both same age bro. Even go to Kobe's first 3 years, he never exceeds Lebron's rookie year.

The point? Lebron was much more NBA ready than Kobe.

And here's one for you. Replace Wade on that Heat team with Kobe and they don't win ANY titles.

[Phoenix Dark]

AiA: I'm not talking about now. It's a fact that Kobe had a more complete game coming into the league than LeBron. It's a fact Shaq had a more complete game than Dwight Howard. The point is about AAU and how players are taught the game from a young age.

I'm not talking about the NCAA. I'm talking about HS development of talent. It's simply a fact that the US has better public infrastructure and funding in those regards breh. There are academies in South America and Africa but surely you must admit that a poor kid in the US would have easier access to a top HS football program than a poor kid in Brazil does getting into a top academy.

The problem with US soccer has nothing to do with the NCAA, it has to do with HS. There just isn't a serious enough focus on it in this country, and there isn't a farming system like there is for football in the south, midwest, etc. I'd expect this to change as soccer becomes more popular, but they're simply too far behind football to catch up in the long term. HS/state budgets are limited and have no incentive not to focus on football over soccer.

If I had to bet I'd say the west coast has the best chance of beginning the process of farming soccer talent. Texas makes sense on paper (immigration) but football dominates the state too much.

Actually Brazil is seen as a nonsensical outlier as far as exploiting their talent. for their per capita punch they fight waaaay above their weight. they get kids playing Futsal and shit at early ages etc. You would have had a better pick with some outlier minor country in the sport, something like Nicaragua.

Lmao you don't know what the problem is with american soccer breh, you don't watch it or read about it at ANY level. So stop. why would you even try this?

Actually there is a very serious attitude toward youth soccer here, and high levels of participation . The problem is that its completely ass backwards. Coaches focus on results rather than tactics and technique. There's a high cost of entry into select programs. In other countries pro academies privately foot those costs instead of parents  and the state. And the scouting game is nuts. you also have to realize that domestic and euro clubs have scouts in every country looking for talent. Even here. That's how Haji Wright is in Germany with Schalke and Gedion Zelalem got picked up for Arsenal. Even though they were playing high school or us academy ball.

So basically you just reiterated what I said: the issue isn't the NCAA, it's the lack of serious and accessible soccer programs during developmental years.

Even with scouting. It's just not on football's level as AiA can attest to, and I don't think it will be anytime soon.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

In order currently in high school in the US the best athletes go to the following sports, in order

1) Basketball (Mom's prefer their kids to play B Ball, less injuries)
2) Football (was alpha dog until about 4 years ago, big shift in momentum lately)
3) Wrestling (UFC for all it's faults is making a major impression)
4) Baseball (Sinking fast)
5) Track (Yup, track)
6) Soccer (Only get the goofy soccer types and the one year wonders currently but will pass baseball withing 10 years)

Source: I coached HS for many years. Basketball is getting the best athletes, period.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

You're smoking PD...

Lebron was Bird Jr from the first day he stepped on an NBA court.

Kobe was a kid with a fro chucking jumpers and getting blown by on the regular.



c'mon man.

[Phoenix Dark]

oh my fucking god dude.

Kobe had a more complete game coming into the league. LeBron developed his game over the years and became what he is now; dude is a way better shooter and dribbler now than he was as a rookie. LeBron's talent was more athleticism than skill at the time. This isn't Kobe v LeBron antics, I'm talking about skill development and the difference between AAU and Europe.

Compare Dwight Howard to just about any good Euro or 1-2yr college big man. Skill wise. Howard got by thanks to height and athleticism, now he's in the NBA with a ceiling due to not having a post game.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

oh my fucking god dude.

Kobe had a more complete game coming into the league. LeBron developed his game over the years and became what he is now; dude is a way better shooter and dribbler now than he was as a rookie. LeBron's talent was more athleticism than skill at the time. This isn't Kobe v LeBron antics, I'm talking about skill development and the difference between AAU and Europe.

Compare Dwight Howard to just about any good Euro or 1-2yr college big man. Skill wise. Howard got by thanks to height and athleticism, now he's in the NBA with a ceiling due to not having a post game.

PD, the fuck on you on man? Kobe couldn't begin to put up Lebron level output until his 3rd goddamn year. Lebron was 20/5/5 as a 19 year old. In what world do you live?

But yeah let's cock stroke a volume shooter versus the complete package.

You know what would happen if 16 year old Lebron played in the Euro League? Lebron would dominate.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Not really a fair comparison esch.

You can play baseball minor leagues as an 18 year old....some great pro's have made debates that age as well.

You only are required to play 1 year of college baskeball and can become pro at age 19 (use to be right out of highschool until 2005 ish)

Football is a different animal man. Your body isn't ready to be smashed by grown men at age 18 or 19. It would be murder to allow a kid out of high school to go straight to the pros.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

BTW if sports get this heated Pop Culture thread tomorrow is going to be a goddamn bloodbath.

[Phoenix Dark]

So it's the HS development system and the NCAA.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

So it's the HS development system and the NCAA.

Esch can say that but the real truth is soccer just isn't that popular in the USA. If we loved soccer like we love football/basketball we'd already be world cup contender.

[nudemacusers]

Well the problem in the US  is that we take all our best homosexual actors and give them roles in TV and film as B-grade superheroes. the supply is just not there for soccer.

[Phoenix Dark]

So it's the HS development system and the NCAA.

Esch can say that but the real truth is soccer just isn't that popular in the USA. If we loved soccer like we love football/basketball we'd already be world cup contender.

Soccer is very popular here. There just isn't an infrastructure in place for it to thrive and develop talent. And by infrastructure I mean scouting, top HS programs, the academies Esch spoke of, etc. All that shit exists for football instead, and it'll remain that way until there's a financial incentive for schools to shift.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

So it's the HS development system and the NCAA.

Esch can say that but the real truth is soccer just isn't that popular in the USA. If we loved soccer like we love football/basketball we'd already be world cup contender.

Soccer is very popular here. There just isn't an infrastructure in place for it to thrive and develop talent. And by infrastructure I mean scouting, top HS programs, the academies Esch spoke of, etc. All that shit exists for football instead, and it'll remain that way until there's a financial incentive for schools to shift.

Soccer isn't even close to very popular. It's gaining popularity and the world cup gave it a nice push but on any given day you'll have 20 kids trying out for soccer and 200 trying out for football.

For instance here in my son's athletic league there are 10 schools. 4 have soccer and 2 of those only have girl's soccer.