THE BOUNCER 1886 |OT| "Ready at Dawn, finished by the afternoon."

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I don't think these games have the biggest budgets as some might think.

Also they don't sell as bad as other say.

Order has been in the top 3 in the UK for 3 weeks now for instance and I think in Germany as well.

[kick51]

I'm happy Sony seems to be ok funding these projects that don't deserve it. From Heavenly Sword, Beyond Two Worlds, Tokyo Jungle, to The Order and the upcoming Until Dawn. I don't get how these games get huge budgets and they aren't actually usually good games. Still, I'm happy they exist if only for thier odd and noteworthy imperfect productions.

Tokyo Jungle deserved it.  that game couldn't have cost more than $10 to make.  The rest of those are bloated cinematic AAA blah blah blahs

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Heavenly Sword was ok, Beyond is prob yank like all other Quantum games.

Until Dawn is looking like a game I will enjoy but will prob get panned.

[bork]

The Order is'nt even that bad. A solid game that for some reason I guess is tasked with being some great savior of the PS4. It's just a solid playing TPS with fantastic visuals and an interesting setting and premise. Don't know why the game has gotten this much flack. It's hardly offensive.

I'm going to guess it gets this much flack for being a stupid, QTE and cut scene filled, non-replayable mess of a game that has pretty graphics and literally nothing else to offer.

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What does a shooter need to offer more?

I dont get it

[BobFromPikeCreek]

I know we're beyond the days of expecting every game to be 90 hours long, but 5-6 hours of almost 50/50 generic shooter gameplay and cutscene for 60 bucks is not a value I think will ever be defensible.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, I think if it at least had new game+, unlockables, some secrets, it'd be closer to the price.  That stuff is quick and cheap and easy to put in too, so it seems pretty odd they didn't even bother.

And of course MP would've made a big difference in how value is perceived.

[demi]

Gamers when single player is awesome: "Why waste time on Multiplayer? Jesus fucking christ"

Gamers when single player is garbage: "Should put multiplayer, that'll make it fun"

[Rahxephon91]

The Order is'nt even that bad. A solid game that for some reason I guess is tasked with being some great savior of the PS4. It's just a solid playing TPS with fantastic visuals and an interesting setting and premise. Don't know why the game has gotten this much flack. It's hardly offensive.

I'm going to guess it gets this much flack for being a stupid, QTE and cut scene filled, non-replayable mess of a game that has pretty graphics and literally nothing else to offer.

I guess, but then people should have been lambasting the Uncharted games for basically allowing this to happen. There's honestly not that much difference between the Uncharted games and The Order. Except the Uncharteds are a bit longer and now have multiplayer. But honestly, I don't see the value in multiplayer unless that's clearly the game's focus. Didn't care about it in the likes of Tomb Raider or say God War A. Resources that could have gone elsewhere.

Should the game be criticized? Yes, but there seems to be this complete trashing over a game that's worse crime is that it's short and maybe a bit un-creative. Yet, it's not like it sucks as a game. It's a solid TPS that feels weighty and well made. Far better then anything in the Uncharted games. It really is not the over bloated with cutscenes some of the skirmishes are quite fun as the AI is actually aggressive. As a game no doubt funded because things like Uncharted exists, it really commits no crime that those games go un-attacked for. Except those games have weaker generic gameplay and honestly are also not very replayable. The Order also costs on a rather interesting universe even if the story leaves a bit to be desired. And it's all presented with some of the most next gen visuals yet.

No it's not worth $60, because it's at best a 7. But it is'nt terrible and some of the lambasting is just going overboard.

[Stoney Mason]

From what I've seen this game is no where near what the Uncharted series is, especially Uncharted 2 but I'll leave it at that since I've played the Uncharted series and not the order.

I will say that I hate when people refuse to see differentiation within a genre. There is a big difference between a shitty third person action shooter and a good third person action shooter since last gen was littered with them. And comparing them at a certain point is really insulting to the uncharted guys.

I've watched a decent amount of a playthroughs of youtube of the order and at no point was I intrigued, interested, fascinated. The characters don't compare to Uncharted 2. The spectacle doesn't compare to Uncharted 2. The variety in gameplay doesn't compare to Uncharted 2. The viability of different tactics and openess of combat doesn't compare to Uncharted 2.

Even a game like Uncharted 3 which was fundamentally flawed in a lot of different ways and I think over-rated does its job on those aspect seemingly better than the order.

The pushback on criticsm is also pretty weird imo. People criticize games on forums like Bioshock Infinite. A game which fails in so many aspects but is at least trying something. It's a bit of a trainwreck of a game imo but maybe a noble trainwreck. So a game like the Order somehow doesn't deserve this?

I think rational people would be fine with a hey I liked the order. I thought it was a fun simple shooter with great graphics but I recognize it has a shitload of problems that other people might hate or that's it not worth the value proposition at $60.

I think there are plenty of xbox and ps4 exclusives that would fall into that category. But something about this exclusive  makes people go through all kinds of hoops to defend it, in a way that you don't see with other failed games.

Not all of that rant was aimed at you Rahx but just putting it out there. It would be a lot more believable to me if this was a third party game when people try to tell me it's not that bad because then it would be clear they don't have their dander up about a platform exclusive.

The order seems a perfectly average game. But for most people perfectly average for $60 bucks and 7 hours ain't gonna cut it. I loved Sunset Overdrive. Thought it was brilliant. But even then I waited to buy it on sale for almost half that.

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This game got panned because its a sony game imho. It would also get panned if it was a
Msft game.

If this was a sega game or something journos would be on the barricades to defend it and it would be a cult classic .

The problem is what people expect not what the game is.

[Stoney Mason]

This game got panned because its a sony game imho. It would also get panned if it was a
Msft game.

If this was a sega game or something journos would be on the barricades to defend it and it would be a cult classic .

The problem is what people expect not what the game is.

So Ryse got panned because it was MS game?

Why didn't people react this way to Ryse reviews on the bore?

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I havent played Ryse but its prob the same kind of game. If I had a bone id prob defend it too (although im not huge on brawlers)

And yeah im sure if Ryse had a low profile release by some small studio it would have scored better

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I bet half the sites panning these games also had something like the walking dead be goty, even if telltale barely makes games

Case in point: polygon (lol)

Slams ryse as cynical etc , 6
While walking dead gets a 9 even when there is no gameplay
Order also slammed with a 5.5 because reasons

[Stoney Mason]

I'm pretty sure it's easy to see all this when you have agendas on the brain.

[Rufus]

Games usually get reviewed on their own merits though. Walking Dead doesn't try to be an action game. All it has is story (with player involvement), and by all acounts it's doing that pretty damn well. If anything people are more upset that it's in the "video game" category and taken seriously as such alongside "gamey games".
Order and Ryse got slammed because they're action games that are ostensibly boring. I don't know about Ryse, but Order tried to have some narrative too and be 'cinematic' or whatever and apparently failed at that too. I don't see the issue here.

[Stoney Mason]

There are always a few games that get roughed up in reviews that you tend to go, I think they missed the mark here. This is a solid well made fun game with something good in it. I would go so far as to say Dying light is one of those games. Everybody has their examples.

And I'm always going to be mr. we all have our opinions and every opinion is valid.

It still strikes me as odd that somebody would try to put that mark on something like the order 1886. A game that only exceeds in one area, and that's graphics. Which still wouldn't save it if it was just a story game like the Telltale output if people didn't care about the story.

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You base this in having played the gamr right?

Shooting is real good, like it feels better then uncharted ot gears imho.  Sounds is prob even better then the graphics.

This game has more then just graphics.

But ill just stop because you guys know better after watching youtube clips

[Bebpo]

Gamers when single player is awesome: "Why waste time on Multiplayer? Jesus fucking christ"

Gamers when single player is garbage: "Should put multiplayer, that'll make it fun"

C'mon don't be a silly willy nilly.  I don't give a shit about MP and I'm the last person to want MP in a SP game, but it's objective that having MP adds to the perceived $$ value of a game and replay value for the masses.  Plus the first part where I said adding things like new game+, unlockables, secrets help the replay value for us SP gamers for a good SP game.

I mean a good comparison to The Order is Vanquish.  Vanquish is fucking awesome and is a 6-8 hour SP only game that was $60 and worth every penny.  But besides great gameplay, it had unlockables, multiple difficulty modes, upgrading, secrets and I don't remember if it had a new game+ or not.  The Order could've had all that stuff and even if the core gameplay was only half as good as Vanquish it'd still be a lot more of a full package than it is now.  And that stuff doesn't cost a ton of budget to add since it doesn't really include new assets.

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Vanquish had horrible controls. Demo put me off the entire game. Such a floaty mess.

Luckily the Order seems to be selling a lot better then that typical platinum flop.

Adding some extra modes (horde mode!) should have been done for sure, its ommision is weird

[Beezy]

Vanquish had horrible controls. Demo put me off the entire game. Such a floaty mess.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

A whole lotta 60 dollar preorder justifying going on in here!

[Positive Touch]

I'd say kosma is trolling, but after this many years we know the boys just dumb

[Rahxephon91]

Vanquish had horrible controls. Demo put me off the entire game. Such a floaty mess.

Luckily the Order seems to be selling a lot better then that typical platinum flop.

Like no man.

[Stoney Mason]

A whole lotta 60 dollar preorder justifying going on in here!

Wait till an actual good game comes out and gets under-reviewed.

It will be submitted as a hague war crime.

[cool breeze]

A whole lotta 60 dollar preorder justifying going on in here!

Wait till an actual good game comes out and gets under-reviewed.

It will be submitted as a hague war crime.

i've seen gaf threads complaining about sunset overdrive and that donkey kong game not getting scored high enough.  one day PS4 will get its own game scoring in the 80s that's still too low.  maybe next week!

 

[kick51]

Vanquish had horrible controls. Demo put me off the entire game. Such a floaty mess.

Luckily the Order seems to be selling a lot better then that typical platinum flop.

Adding some extra modes (horde mode!) should have been done for sure, its ommision is weird

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There is a reason why platinum games flop, and it just might be because they suck according to the public.

They had one decent selling game and that was on the back of mgs.

Rad is a studio on its way up, moving up from handheld games to console games. Platinum is hanging on by a thread just moving from patron to patron till that well runs dry.

[Bebpo]

Pleeaaaaase stop

I've got nothing against The Order and look forward to playing it once as a PS+ or for $20 and oogle the graphics while shooting things, but talking shit on Vanquish is not helping your position!

[Rahxephon91]

I simply like the order cause it looks pretty, takes place in a cool setting, and it's gameplay dosen't offend me. Whatever, I don't care about any larger statement.

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Ive only slept two hours, but I stand by not liking Vanquish

[toku]

I ride for platinum sometimes but I wasn't fucking with Vanquish either. Tried multiple times to catch the "rhythm" of the gmae if that makes any sense and couldn't get it. Still have it on PS3 hdd I think. I couldn't get into Anarchy Reigns either.

[kick51]

There is a reason why platinum games flop, and it just might be because they suck according to the public.

They had one decent selling game and that was on the back of mgs.

Rad is a studio on its way up, moving up from handheld games to console games. Platinum is hanging on by a thread just moving from patron to patron till that well runs dry.

I would like to see more moe characters in anme who are strong and "mature".

I think one of the problems with the word moe, is that it means different things to different people. Every time I bring up the word, it seems like some people want it to mean the most negative thing possible. While I think that, like anime, moe means many good and bad things. So it's sad to see people be against it.

I'm a little bit afraid to say words like "strong" and "mature". Some people think that "strong" is a bad word for writing good female characters, and that "releatable" or "well characterized" or things like that, are better. And mature... well, a lot of things that people consider mature I think are overrated and not very positive qualities for all human beings.

Like being preoccupied with economic status and achievements at work and things like that. Being worried about not being married or in a relationship or not "being accomplished" or having a respected job, doesn't seem very mature to me. Even though many people seem to think it is a mature sign of adulthood.

But... it's complicated. And I couldn't think of many better words offhand.

What I mean is that I think more women and female characters in anime should be able to take care of themselves better. Humans are interdependent, but I feel like too many female characters emotionally rely on a male main protagonist emotionally or in other ways. I would like to see more wisdom and things like that from moe characters. Rather than wisdom being given to them by a male main character.

Female characters should be able to be just as wise and inspirational as male characters. Also, while I don't think archetypes are bad, Western media is filled with archetypes, but archetypes can be only one aspect of a character. Having emotional depth in most shows for more female characters would be nice. Especially if they're not silly comedy anime where character depth isn't always as important.

What do you think? What are some moe characters, and what do you think some of their flaws are that could be improved?

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Dude what scares me most is that you know where to copy paste stuff like that from

[Steve Contra]

Vanquish had horrible controls. Demo put me off the entire game. Such a floaty mess.

Oh god this is the worst thing I've read all day

[Steve Contra]

In fact I'd go so far as to say Vanquish has the best controls of any game last gen full stop.

[Barry Egan]

Make a 30 minute analysis of a 7 hour game brehs

Just play the game and make up your own mind

eh.  You spent 15 pages defending what must have taken Polanski all of 2 minutes.

[Rahxephon91]

So I just finished the game and my thoughts on it are that it is a very shallow title.

For a story focused game it has very and I mean very mediocre story. Which I find even more disappointing, because no doubt Ready at Dawn had plenty of creative control over it and the best they could come up with was predictable trite. Yet, it hurts more because the setting and world are genuinely interesting.

The story just has no life to it. it all follows the most obvious straight line ever. Oh guess what maybe parts of the Order aren't actually good! Maybe the rebels are actually the good guys! The supposed conflicted hero shall join the rebels! Mentor character dies! All these plot points are so obvious and the game follows them with no style of it's own. Making for a very uneventful story that hurts even more because outside of it's gritty steampunk stylings and the name dropping of historical people it does really nothing with it's setting.

But that's not even the problem. The story and characters themselves are extremely weak.

Who care's that Hastings is a vampire and what the United India group was doing? It seems to not even tie that much into the actual third act anyway where Galahad just goes after Lucan. But then what is the entire point of the story itself? The Order was corrupt? But outside of Lucan it's not even known if they knew about Hastings and Galahad does nothing to prove it to them for whatever reason. For whatever reason the game decides Lucan is the antagonist, but this hits like a wet blanket because for all his talk I don't understand his motives or why he's a bad guy. Yes he was a lycan, but that's the game's only real point. We don't know what he was even doing with Hastings or what he he was doing to save his people. As a villain, I don't care. His turn means nothing to me. He was a nothing character and the revelation just makes the entire plot feel oddly disjointed and pointless.

But these characters also are terrible. Isi basically is just the female. That's her character. She does nothing beyond being "the female". She has to act tough, because she's the female. She is in love for Galahad because she's the female. And I guess she gets mad because a woman scorned? There's an interesting part where she is knocked out because of the Lycan boss. She talks about how they don't deserve this life. It's an interesting scene that goes nowhere. Well until her father brings it up at the end which i guess the script writers thought they were being clever. They weren't, because the theme was hardly apparent  throughout the story and we honestly never see much of the sacrifices of being a Knight other then I guess they fight? Isi has no character or role in the story.

Lafayette(another interesting historic figure) is basically "hey I'm french" which the game can only do a half assed caricature of. Oh he's a ladies man and oh I guess he's the "fun" one. Whatever, pointless character that disappears anyway.

And then Galahad. I'm so tired of these protagonists. White guy with guns. They are all the same. Tough. Angry. Stoic dudes. Galahad is a very uninteresting character. He's not entertaining as he simply just goes through the motions of the story. Saying and behaving for every predictable turn the plot asks him to act for. I don't care for him as a person. He simply exists to fill the role of the main character and shoot things. He has no personality beyond that of your regular video game guy with a gun. No thrills. Sure I understand his motives. His relationship with Percival was interesting in the aspect that he was perhaps more loyal to him then the Order, but even that is a lukewarm development. You don't get a feel for his actual views on anything. His motivation beings and stops at "Percival died". Making for a very weak character.

As for the game. It controls fine. Some of the gun fights actually feature nice level design for the skirmishes. But it's all very been there done there. You basically do the same thing over and over again with no thrills. If you've played a cover based tps, you've played this game and The Order has nothing to offer.

Which is a shame as it could have had interesting weapons. The thermite gun is cool. Game does nothing with it. The ai is actually pretty aggressive, could have made for some interesting squad and tactical play if you had weapons and ai behave in a more puzzle matter.  As in aggressive shotgun team is running up on you, use the thermite gun to halt them with a wall of fire and then chip at thier armor. As it it is though it's just a generic well playing shooter. Also your arsenal is always so limited. As a game the whole thing just feels there.

So really it's kits kind of a bad game. A real 5 out of 10. It works. It looks fantastic. The graphics and art design are spectacular. The gameplay is'nt offensive, but it's not compelling. The story is terrible. It's a game that kind of dosen't have a case for existing.

[Bebpo]

Should've been done by Bend.  They proved themselves in TPS games with Resistance Retribution plus the history of Syphon Filter.  RAD has a history of platformers and beat 'em ups; was just the wrong team for the game.

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Sequel will be great guys

Your story analysis is silly, not because its bad, but because you wouldnt analyze a vampire movie like Underworld either no?

Agree on the gameplay with, all the parts are there, just not enough done with them.