Kanye's MBDTF is still damn good

[Rman]

Did a recent relisten and man does this album just flow.  I'm not big Kanye fan, but I just love this album. 

Any fans?

Haterz?

[seagrams hotsauce]

I appreciate it for ascending Kanye to megastar levels and thus sending millions of haters into spirals of umad, but I was kinda disappointed when the track listing came out and half of it had been released already. It's probably his most consistent work, but a lot of I'm not a big fan of 'arena rock' type shit.

[mormapope]

Graduation is still my favorite album from the dude
 

[jakefromstatefarm]

I approve of this thread

cordon off the Kanye cycle ala the GAF thread

[StealthFan]

10/10

Esch

[dkdk]

yeezy was on one during that album cycle. dropping heat every week then dropped a classic on em 

[Rman]

I still have a lot of the songs that didn't make the album.  The GOOD Friday tracks. Those were pretty solid too.

I appreciate it for ascending Kanye to megastar levels and thus sending millions of haters into spirals of umad, but I was kinda disappointed when the track listing came out and half of it had been released already. It's probably his most consistent work, but a lot of I'm not a big fan of 'arena rock' type shit.

I think only 3 songs made the album.  Unless you're talking about leaks.

[toku]

Jay Z's Monster verse is so god damn awful it swings back around to sort of amazing.

[Trent Dole]

It's not the perfect masterpiece that the press hailed it as upon release, but it's still a really fucking good record. Take that dumb moaning talkbox solo off of Runaway and drop the petty skit at the end of Blame Game to make room for two more tracks on the level of everything else on the LP and you could make the argument for classic status.

[headwalk]

it's simple music made by a simple man for simple people.

like nickelback for black people and white people who want to be affiliated with black people.

[Kara]

I agree, even though Mr. West is proprietous now, it's good that he's Married But Down To Fuck still.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's a good album overall, but ultimately is over produced and arguably the worst mastered major album since Death Magnetic. The excesses of tracks like Runaway, the bloated features, the stale lyrics...ultimately it's an album that would have really benefited from fewer cooks in the kitchen.

[CatsCatsCats]

Really liked it when it came out, a lot of it hasn't aged well though

[seagrams hotsauce]

It's a good album overall, but ultimately is over produced and arguably the worst mastered major album since Death Magnetic.

Please. I know you and esch hate this dude but there are dozens of worse examples. The mastering isn't even so much terrible as it is inconsistent.

[PlayDat]

Great album.  I like Yeezus more though.

[Mr. Nobody]

Only songs worth replaying are the first half of Dark Fantasy before Kanye blows his load on the beat and Devil in a New Dress

[toku]

Nas had a much better career IMO.

PhoenixDark wishes

[Trent Dole]

Nas had a much better career IMO.

One god tier album and then...

[milchs evil twin]

Worse than Yeezus.

[brob]

I wish Kanye would go full DJ Khaled and resign himself to screaming some one-liners here and there and leave the rest up to other rappers/producers.

[Phoenix Dark]

There's no excuse or logic behind a poorly mastered album with that much shit going on musically. Multiple instruments, voice tracks (aren't there like 20 vocals on All Of The Lights?), etc etc. Nah. Nope. No.

[Phoenix Dark]

The album also continued Kanye's steep lyrical decline. He's never been a great rapper but I thought Graduation was marred by bad lyrics, and MBDTF took things to the next level of cringe worthy shit. And then Yeezus...

granted I like Yeezus but the lyrics on multiple tracks are lol worthy.

[ToxicAdam]

Late Registration is still my favorite. Jon Brion is an awesome dude.

[Phoenix Dark]

Late Registration is still my favorite. Jon Brion is an awesome dude.

Jon Brion would have made MBDTF a lot better. Kanye is a highly creative person and I respect him, however that album is all over the place. Same way the early Yeezus tracks sounded completely over the top until Rick Rubin stepped in. Late Registration definitely had some excess as well but overall is consistent, in pocket, etc.

A lot of MBDTF leaked or was released early, which resulted in Kanye adding a bunch of shit to tracks in order to make the album as fresh as possible. It was an interesting way to combat leaks but led to a pretty bloated project. That being said some of it worked. I love the added guitar solo stuff/extended instrumental on Devil In A New Dress for instance. I like the All Of The Lights interlude, whereas I'm not a fan of the actual song lol.

[Tasty]

 

[CatsCatsCats]

Wait, people actually liked Yeezus?

[CatsCatsCats]

I really enjoyed MBDTF, it was perfectly in line with pop / mainstream rap at the moment it came out, I think I listened through Yeezus once and just went ehhhh

[seagrams hotsauce]

The mastering isn't even so much terrible as it is inconsistent.

it's pretty bad, one of many reasons i prefer Yeezus. I don't have anything against poor mastering on an Ildjarn EP but when it comes to big budget rap albums there's no excuse for it really.

I appreciate it for ascending Kanye to megastar levels

Kanye was already a megastar before this came out. By then he'd already defeated 50 cent in public, embarassing fashion, had his biggest hits and sold his most successful albums. This was an album for the internet / music critic type fans. All of the Lights did solid but topped at #18 on the billboard.

He was huge, sure, but you're kidding yourself if you think the VMA interruption and this album didn't elevate his profile. He wasn't on TMZ every other day before that. Besides that, he was still often playing moderate-sized venues before the canned gaga tour. After MBDTF and WTT, it's been stadiums only

[Kara]

Can someone pls 'shop the 'zine to say "pop culture" so I can post it w/e peeps is getting invested in pop culture. Thanks in advance.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

MBDTF was tailored to the Pitchfork hipster set, back when they were ironically listening to shite like Gucci Mane.

[TakingBackSunday]

I will fight Esch to the grave about this album

[CatsCatsCats]

MBDTF was tailored to the Pitchfork hipster set, back when they were ironically listening to shite like Gucci Mane.

I will fight Esch to the grave about this album

These posts coming in at the same time

[TakingBackSunday]

I need to ly dwn

[Phoenix Dark]

Graduation did more to catapult Kanye to superstar status than MBDTF.

(and I think Graduation is trash)

[Human Snorenado]

MBDTF was tailored to the Pitchfork hipster set, back when they were ironically listening to shite like Gucci Mane.

I never saw it that way. I think it's more the go-to for the fans of post-rock in the mid 00s, radiohead, iron and wine, the knife, vampire weekend, say anything, morrissey type.

That's my wheelhouse tho, and I thought MBDTF was mediocre

[Phoenix Dark]

I take a different view on that. IMO I don't think the album is tailored to Pitchfork types - in fact most albums aren't. Kanye is obsessed with receiving recognition and pats on the back from people...but I don't think he goes into the studio focused on making shit that appeals to those folks. I'm more apt to believe that white hipsters naturally gravitate the most to hip hop albums that are the least "traditional" sounding as possible. They basically like hip hop albums that break free of whatever their generic view of the genre is (soul loops/drum machines/underground pretentious shit/etc). Consider the last three albums that received rave reviews from hipster and traditional media: MBDTF, Good Kid Maad City, and To Pimp A Butterfly. All of them feature varied production, lots of instrumentation, and broadly ambitious goals or themes. Whereas when The Roots release a traditional sounding hip hop album with some strings thrown in they get blasted with a 7/10 review.

In short I think this is moreso about how hipsters perceive hip hop than anything else. I get the impression many don't respect it as a genre, and thus save their praise for albums that "break free of hip hop tropes" or whatever the fuck they want to call it. The rapping is secondary to the actual music, basically.

[CatsCatsCats]

I think PD nailed it, but I believe it's less about not respecting the actual rap and more about the white hipsters need for novelty

[TakingBackSunday]

That's a good way to put it.  That basically sums up why To Pimp a Butterfly is much more beloved by my hipster friends than any of my pure hip hop fans.

(I love TPAB btw)

[Human Snorenado]

Yeah, I'll buy that explanation PD. Reminds me of all of my white friends freaking out about The Love Below when it came out.

[toku]

Man, Sir Lucious Left Foot was top shelf. Shame he tried way too hard to recreate it.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea I love TPAB and GKMC as well, Run The Jewels 2 is great, really liked The Love Below, really liked Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty, etc. You could probably add Drake's Take Care to that list of ambitious rap albums that received praise - I'm far from a Drake fan but I like that album overall. It's cool seeing all this stuff get recognition. I just dislike the idea that only those types of rap albums are worth your time - or that the only way to create an ambitious album is to have live instrumentation or a fusing of multiple genres. I still love boom bap shit, I still love that rugged NY sound. Marcberg still blows me away, despite the reliance on soul samples. Shabazz Palaces' last couple albums blew me away despite also not stacking instruments. If it's dope, it's dope.

That's what's cool about rap to me right now. No matter what you like you'll probably find something up your alley. I'm still baffled at people complaining about TPAB not having 808s n shit. You hear that in so much other shit, why does everything have to follow that pattern? Turn up later, plebes...

[Steve Contra]

I didn't know you liked Shabazz Palaces

[toku]

That's what's cool about rap to me right now. No matter what you like you'll probably find something up your alley. I'm still baffled at people complaining about TPAB not having 808s n shit. You hear that in so much other shit, why does everything have to follow that pattern? Turn up later, plebes...

You had to take the shot didn't you?

[TakingBackSunday]

Shabazz Palaces kicks ass

[Trent Dole]

Digable Planets Reachin' is one of the reasons I got into jazz. I remember hearing that Butterfly had been carrying on as Shabazz for a bit and gave some stuff a listen and was He gets good press for it apparently though so it'd seem SP is some way over my head next level type stuff.

[toku]

The Love Below sucked

Yep. Like 18 tracks but only around 4 are worth keeping:

She Lives in My Lap (pretty popular but still underrated imo)
Hey Ya! (half brazilian half chinese christian chick i crushed hard on in college dressed up as "poloroid picture" for halloween...will always remember her :'()
Dracula's Wedding (good weird, kinda ahead of it's time?Ppl weren't ready for this sound in 2003)
A Life in the Day of Benjamin Andre [Incomplete] (no explanation necessary)

I don't even listen to the Big Boi portion at all.

[seagrams hotsauce]

He was huge, sure, but you're kidding yourself if you think the VMA interruption and this album didn't elevate his profile. He wasn't on TMZ every other day before that.

He had already dabbled in this arena with the katrina shit. Either way acting out didn't help him as much as you say in my eyes, cause his shit certainly didn't receive a chart or plaque bump. it's been mostly downhill except for WTT.

Huh, for some reason I thought GITD was a lot smaller than it actually was. And sure, he had garnered attention for his outbursts before, but he wasn't as high profile in the tabloids as he is nowadays - though that's probably as much due to becoming an extended member of the Kardashians as anything else.

I dunno what you mean about it being downhill though. MBDTF sold better than his last two albums and WTT. Yeezus didn't do as well, but there was also no real advertising campaign besides the New Slaves projections and the SNL performance.

[Steve Contra]

The one-two punch of 808 and the VMA thing (which people still hate him for, I mean you'd think he collectively kicked the dogs of millions and millions of white people through the tv) killed Kanye West the rapper.  Now he's Kanye West the media thing people talk about.

[Phoenix Dark]

Graduation sold 3mil. MBDTF sold 1.3 mil. Yeezus is just under 900k iirc. Now Kanye can't get a release date...

I agree at this point he's moreso a media thing than someone people want to hear from. He's struggling to get back to being seen as normal, but he just can't do it. The Grammy shit with Beck was like further confirmation that he hasn't changed, regardless of his attempt to show otherwise. Obviously people still will attend his live shows but it seems like his brand is pretty bleh right now.

Him releasing 3 average to bad singles for this album didn't help.

[toku]

A lot of artists in a similar boat. Rihanna is a personality now, not an artist. The kid who left One Direction is in the same boat now etc. Promise a new album, maybe even release songs that do well online but just stay pretty and show up to things...profit?

It's easier to get a date as a C tier artist than it is for B/A listers now.

[seagrams hotsauce]

I dunno what you mean about it being downhill though.

(Image removed from quote.)

lol, shocker: people don't buy as many records as they did over a decade ago. Almost any artist that's been lucky enough to be selling records since 2004 is gonna have a similar looking trajectory for album sales. Hell, even ticket sales are tanking for huge commercial artists these days. Taylor Swift seems like the only person who's completely immune to the malaise of the industry.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Oh no doubt, I have no illusions as to why Yeezus did poorly in comparison. I thought you were referring to MBDTF marking the start of the point of decline, which is definitely not the case imo

[Phoenix Dark]

It'll be interesting to see how things play out with Kanye, Rihanna, as well as Hov. Kanye's brand is busted as we've discussed. Dunno about Rihanna but her big single flopped (American Oxygen). I've seen folks blame the initial Tidal exclusivity but eh...dunno. Still I'd imagine all she needs is the right song and she'll be ready to go.

Then there's Hov. I thought he did a great job avoiding becoming a media/tabloid "thing" like Kanye Kardashian. However the nonstop bad press over Tidal, his boxing venture flopping, etc may suggest people are getting tired of him? Obviously MCHG was a smash hit album (despite being trash) but I wonder where does Hov go next, and has the perception of being out of touch/arrogant/etc caught up with him? Like Rihanna he probably just needs another hit record though.

[seagrams hotsauce]

I'm sure it was intentional. He says it in the first song of the album - "make em all like you and then unlike you". Hell, even the sequencing was intentionally off-putting, he and Rubin decided to change the first track from Blood On The Leaves to On Sight. That combined with the "NOT FOR SALE" motif and the projections and stuff makes me think it was on purpose. I also agree that it seems like he regrets backing himself into a corner now. The latest shit with the new album kinda reminds of the when 50 put out Amusement Park and Straight To The Bank, got no reception, and went back to the drawing board for six months. I dunno if Kanye can really put of an equivalent of I Get Money though.

[seagrams hotsauce]

And Hov will be fine. The Beyhive will keep him afloat for as long as Beyonce is will to tolerate him. All he needs to do now is copyright his face and he'll get half of the royalties for whatever Blue Ivy is up to in a decade.

[seagrams hotsauce]

He's definitely not bigger than his wife lol

[Mr. Nobody]

Man, Sir Lucious Left Foot was top shelf. Shame he tried way too hard to recreate it.

Yes indeed. Album is criminally slept on

[seagrams hotsauce]

Fair enough. I was being flip and thinking about it, you're right, her cult doesn't parlay. I think by the time the On The Run tour was winding down and when the doc came out people were fatigued. I had certainly had my fill of both of them by then.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Yeezus didn't sell well because it sucked and was poorly promoted.

Also unless your name is Taylor Swift, your album sales are going to be shit in the year of our lord 2015.  Even Jay-Z did that deal with Samsung to goose the numbers of the first week of sales for his 2013 album.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yup, which is partially why I'm really interested to see how it does. I agree Hov is best when he feels threatened, maybe we'll get something dope.

Drake is the other person who sells like crazy, alongside Taylor Swift.