Author Topic: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)  (Read 25750 times)

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VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #120 on: September 14, 2015, 01:49:16 PM »
The Ray model is really nice yeah. I was on board with the Gekkos too but the game didn't really do anything with them.
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VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #121 on: September 14, 2015, 04:14:27 PM »
So, here's why I don't get with Kojima. At the end of Ground Zeroes you have that timeline of real events from 75 to the present covering major real events of the cold war and beyond, Guantanamo, Iran hostage crisis and stuff. It doesn't really serves any real purpose in regards to the story (apart I guess the Afghan war bit), so what gives ? Does Hideo really think he is educating people ? My main issue with that is that it makes no sense in the MGS lore. The MGS world is supposed to be exactly like ours (With the Afghan war starting right on time) except according to the games the Cold War was a giant con to dress what really was an internal strife of the person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation Freemason Aliens pulling all the threads since "the end of WW1" then of an organisation so powerful it basically had free reign over US forces and entries everywhere else, then an IA so omnipotent it could build a flying giant submarine right in front of NY and apparently cover it up even when it destroyed one of the city best known district... I mean, it robs all the actual history he's so proud to talk about of any political substance.

Yeah I know I'm looking too hard into this, and I understand why Kojima don't want to stray too far from the real world, but it really make the whole story break at its core for me, it just has zero sense. I can suspend my disbelief for covert ops in remote places, even with all the "secret history" conspiracy stuff in between, no problem... But this whole "Yeah history went like ours, except during the seventies with a mercenary rogue state with nukes, giant robots and sentient IAs on a gigantic platform at sea, which apparently didn't bother any nation state that much"  ???

I'm a bit rambling here, but it's just that I find the apolitical tone (or political illiteracy) really weird. The only thing Kojima seems to really care about is nuclear disarmement and his love/hate boner for the USA. Strikes me as a very Japanese thing, and not in a good way. Post-WW2 hypocrisy...?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 06:29:50 PM by VomKriege »
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Kara

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #122 on: September 14, 2015, 07:46:36 PM »
Metal Gear Rex will always be my favorite.

RE tonal dissonance: I'm sure I'm giving Kojima far too much credit, but I take the fiction of the series to be metaphor. e.g. The secret war between Big Boss and the Patriots during the Cold War as a metaphor for the Invisible war between the U.S. and Soviet Union and how (particularly after the development of Socialism in One Country) it was just sort of a pointless pissing match.

brob

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #123 on: September 14, 2015, 07:51:57 PM »
The Ray model is really nice yeah. I was on board with the Gekkos too but the game didn't really do anything with them.

the dwarf gekkos were real cool I thought, and revengance made good use of them with the physical comedy they so obviously were designed for.

VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #124 on: September 14, 2015, 08:18:18 PM »
The Ray model is really nice yeah. I was on board with the Gekkos too but the game didn't really do anything with them.

the dwarf gekkos were real cool I thought, and revengance made good use of them with the physical comedy they so obviously were designed for.

The Dwarfs felt out of place in MGS4. Worked great in MGS:R though.

RE tonal dissonance: I'm sure I'm giving Kojima far too much credit, but I take the fiction of the series to be metaphor. e.g. The secret war between Big Boss and the Patriots during the Cold War as a metaphor for the Invisible war between the U.S. and Soviet Union and how (particularly after the development of Socialism in One Country) it was just sort of a pointless pissing match.

I think you're indeed giving way too much credit  :D
The whole malarkey of double agents and agendas and Kojima changing his mind about what the "Patriots" are every game doesn't really help with painting a consistent struggle. All the more since the official line is now that everyone was just trying to fulfill the Boss program in their own way, because it's so vague (Which I guess goes to show that you shouldn't let soldiers do the political theory).

I think I would just have worked the Outer Heaven stuff into a Rhodesia like scenario (or any similar civil war). I dunno. Plenty of opportunity to explore very grey areas, certainly greyer than saving the world once more. The thing is that ultimately, judging by Ground Zeroes, the game will never really go over the line regarding your mercenary activity. In one mission you're hired by KGB agents or Vietnam to kill two Marines who made quite a killing in NVA ranks while at Laos, and Kaz/the game just can't do that without inserting some sobbing overtones to the whole thing. It's okay Kaz, we're hired guns.
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chronovore

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #125 on: September 14, 2015, 08:42:27 PM »
I've only really absorbed the MGS world second-hand, but Hideo reminds me strongly of Masumune Shirow, who also has a questionable grasp of western mythology and politics, yet feels compelled to endlessly spin tremendously over-contrived stories based on it.

toku

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #126 on: September 14, 2015, 09:17:51 PM »
I've only really absorbed the MGS world second-hand, but Hideo reminds me strongly of Masumune Shirow, who also has a questionable grasp of western mythology and politics, yet feels compelled to endlessly spin tremendously over-contrived stories based on it.

Do you think Kojima is just gonna give up and go into hentai as well?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shirows late 80s early 90s work is still phenomenal. Stuff he was doing with perspective, and the detail involved is seriously next level shit and if you're an artist will make you cry because you'll never be a tenth as good. It's fucking heartbreaking that all he seems to do now is draw women drowning in an ocean of cum
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VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #127 on: September 15, 2015, 03:47:21 AM »
Man if Hideo was half as good as Shirow...

Shirow never made the mistake of showing the men behind the curtain. His characters are very much soldiers and pawns that operate at their level far from the actual motivations of the puppet masters. There's no pussyfooting around the fact that they are spooks and shady killers: Deunan would never make a stupid 10 page speech about life, war, control of information and everything else. The characters are much more down to earth (the Knute / Briaeros couple is genuinely a superb and subtle relationship). Shirow is also not shy to show Japan (in GitS) as a proactive covert political force despite the constitution, featuring the Kouriles island and uneasy relations with China (in the series at least). Japanese / Olympus politics are dirty but the characters never derelict duty or go full distinguished mentally-challenged fellow like Big Boss, they always serve their political masters, system or order. He's much more self aware than Kojima, and I never felt he had the same love/hate boner for the US or the West, the rest of the world never features too prominently, even if he took the care of thinking about how it all stands post WW3. A lot of the Otaku culture have this military and destruction fixation but few are as oblivious than Kojima about it. Anno is a Navy guy and in Gunbuster you have those weird hints of a revanchist fantasy of Hawaii being Japanese and the future space Navy using Imperial uniforms. Otomo is all about fight the power but he reflects on post WW2 Japan and has no illusions on its hypocrisy or the fact that the alternatives will be crapsack for a long while.

As a sidenote I read a good study somewhere where anime creators themselves said that the Aum chemical attack and the 95 Kobe quake made them more sober vis à vis their apocalyptic hard-ons. It was suddenly much less cool and awesome now that they had a taste of it. I don't know if this is what happened to Shirow, but he lived in Kobe and the break in his career is around that time. At the very least I recall to have read that he lost part of his work and that might have prompted him to reconsider his career.

I am always bummed by the unfinished Appleseed tome 5, the beginning of it is pretty awesome.

Edit: I also never felt Shirow was as crass as Kojima with his women characters, despite being from the same school of pretty ridiculous outfits, statuesque bodies and perv tendency as per his current work. Maybe because they always felt like characters.

Edit: Doesn't help that Big Boss is such a non character (from MGS3). I mean the dude is a fucking copypasta job of Snake appearance wise with wangst. We're told a lot he is charismatic and deep, but I don't see it. (Total disclosure here, I only played MGS3 and GZ, not the other titles featuring BB esp. on portable, so I may be a moron that will his foot in his mouth and all that).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 12:15:52 PM by VomKriege »
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chronovore

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #128 on: September 15, 2015, 09:56:22 AM »
Christ, you've clearly thought about this a shit-tonne more than I have.
:bow VomKriege :bow2

I'll stick with Toku's evaluation though: as an artist who will never be as good as Shirow, it's sad to see him wasting his time on grotesquery.

As for Anno, it's weird to hear that he has any militaristic tendencies. A guy like Anno would last about 3 minutes in the militarized Japan of his fantasy.

VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2015, 10:24:14 AM »
Militaristic is maybe not the word. Total nerd for battleships tho, the family names of Rei, Asuka and Mary in the Evangelion movies are japanese warship classes. It's apparently a common type of Otaku (like Kensuke in EVA) and even Leiji Matsumoto may have some of that (Space Battleship Yamato...). Also he did voice the main character in that Ghibli movie about the Zero engineer, right ?

And yeah it's a shame for Shirow. But with Man Machine Interface he was clearly losing his touch. Horrible art, really convoluted plot (some decent ideas in there, my impression is that Solid State Society did pick up some of them), Kusanagi design getting way more about titillation.

He does have in common with Kojima the insane cliff notes about weapons and spook procedure, and the mechs. On the whole, they stem probably from the same type of fandom and influences.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 12:25:18 PM by VomKriege »
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helios

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #130 on: September 15, 2015, 06:52:59 PM »
Holy fuck the Jeep scene is fucking bad. Snake doesn't say a word! He just sits there.

And why is there a preview for Chapter 2? Or "to be continueds"?

Kara

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #131 on: September 15, 2015, 08:17:36 PM »
tfw you're the one arguing a bad video game has merit. :fbm

VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #132 on: September 16, 2015, 06:24:32 AM »


Those ones are real.  :lol
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Steve Contra

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #133 on: September 16, 2015, 01:56:58 PM »
s-ranked Ground Zeroes, now I guess I have to get this :brazilcry
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chronovore

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #134 on: September 16, 2015, 08:02:07 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Those ones are real.  :lol

Wands and circles. Kojima wants you to know he's straight.

VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #135 on: September 17, 2015, 06:46:00 PM »
That walkman idea is really not that great, frankly.  Custom music works ass on PS3, and all the background stories are a bit much, even in GZ, am I supposed to listen to that while I tranq dudes ? Content is bad as well, I tried to listen to Paz's journal and I stopped when she started explaining what football is (Dear, I'm sure Zero is familiar with the sport) after several minutes of retelling how she fished a fucking sardinia and cooked a meal for Big Boss... Not that she likes him or anything, baka ! Kojima work so hard that Tsundere angle by making Paz into that horrible bitch "Kittenz are feeble and weak and lame ! I hate them !".

Otherwise got an A on the main mission. Nailed everything up to the zone where Paz is held, still need to work that. I was curious and shot at the lights... and it works. Really can help too.
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Kara

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #136 on: September 17, 2015, 06:53:27 PM »
Tsunderes :noah

mormapope

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #137 on: September 17, 2015, 07:57:45 PM »
I think the majority of Paz's tapes in Ground Zeroes are from Peace Walker.
OH!

VomKriege

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2015, 07:52:58 PM »


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Positive Touch

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2015, 09:33:00 PM »
first u need to get the underwater key that lets u revive Aries
pcp

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #140 on: September 19, 2015, 03:46:33 PM »
V is Real 2401

Sho Nuff

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #141 on: September 23, 2015, 01:03:30 AM »
Just finished it

 :goty2

mormapope

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #142 on: September 23, 2015, 01:19:57 AM »
If this song played in the credits for mission 46, the ending would've been ten times better, its even in the game  :lol

OH!

Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #143 on: September 23, 2015, 03:39:23 AM »

Sho Nuff

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #144 on: September 23, 2015, 08:34:08 AM »
It's like, Episode 1 is sooooo long and has so many cool moments and has good pacing, and then Episode 2 is just a big ol mess of literally nothing. I wish I knew what they'd originally planned and at what point was the "oh shit" moment.

chronovore

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Re: MGSV Spoiler Thread (BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND SPOILERS INSIDE)
« Reply #145 on: September 24, 2015, 07:44:57 AM »
It's like, Episode 1 is sooooo long and has so many cool moments and has good pacing, and then Episode 2 is just a big ol mess of literally nothing. I wish I knew what they'd originally planned and at what point was the "oh shit" moment.

Just do like I did for the Star Wars Prequels: Pretend they don't exist and invent your own, better story.

VomKriege

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