MGSV thread of there's a game coming out.

[Wrath2X]

I saw a spoiler thread but nothing else, so here's a lazy one. Enjoy.

[mormapope]

Random gifs of the game

[mormapope]

Probably because there's very little story/character hype. We know the fates of every character ten times over, the journey/plot of Big Boss has been laid out for a very long time. To MGS V's credit though, impressions from almost everyone have been that story bits are much shorter and less cryptic than before, shit is simplified when it comes to overall plot. Ridiculous shit still happens, but the game doesn't trip over itself trying to tell the player the core themes of the game. The cutscenes themselves look like they're directed really well.

MGS V is guaranteed to be better than MGS4 on almost every front. The MGS V previews we've gotten have showed more gameplay shit each time, what we're seeing is what we're gonna get.

[mormapope]

Something that's sorta fucked is MGS2 has a similar amount of exposition as MGS4. MGS2 has around five hours of cutscenes/important codec calls and around 4-6 hours of gameplay. MGS4 has around eight hours of cutscenes and 6-8 hours of gameplay.

A lot of that time in MGS2 was to fuck around with the player, or to add backstory to the characters and environment around you. MGS2 is long winded but still a fun ride nonetheless. MGS4 has humongous dialog dumps about shit that adds nothing emotionally, nor do MGS4 cutscenes add anything significant to the overall MGS universe.

[thisismyusername]

http://i.imgur.com/JAsZUN3.gif

That's so fucking ridiculous.  Grenade shot by Quiet(?) into a helicopter.

[Human Snorenado]

"game"

[Sho Nuff]

Someone please tell me this is like Red Dead Redemption + MGS doofiness, I haven't really been tracking this game and am curious

[Positive Touch]

seeing people talk about this game is like watching a kid burn his hand after his parents tell him not to touch the stove

[archie4208]

"game"

Gameplay in GZ was superb breh.   

Someone please tell me this is like Red Dead Redemption + MGS doofiness, I haven't really been tracking this game and am curious

Kinda yeah.  It's open world.

[nachobro]

Ran through GZ again today on PS4. I'd forgotten how good it was. I'm way more hyped for 5 now.

[El Babua]

Don't care much about story. Gameplay looks superb however.

[Purrp Skirrp]

How does the gameplay in GZ compare to 4?

[thisismyusername]

How does the gameplay in GZ compare to 4?

Totally apples and oranges. It feels like 4 devolved the 1-3 formula while 5 changes it up slightly.

[VomKriege]

What interests me here is the structure of the game, breaking up the game into missions might be a good idea. MGS is at his best when you're at liberty to play around given settings (like the Ocelot unit fight in MGS3 was pretty fun, or the boat setpiece in MGS4, or the Tanker) and I hope it will put back the gameplay up front. It was really a pain in MGS4 to access the good parts on a whim, you always to go through the terrible install and/or the bad parts. It is also through to an extent for the former games while in Chaos Theory you could fire up any mission to replay, the format was better.

The whole building up the base and all that jazz sound like a terrible mechanic though, totally bloated and gimmicky, padding... I'm not too sold with the partner idea as well. Might be fun but an AI always has terrible shortcomings. I haven't played PW and I know they did the missions there and people had mixed feelings about that...

[thisismyusername]

I'm not too sold with the partner idea as well. Might be fun but an AI always has terrible shortcomings.

So don't use them? Outside of cutscenes at Motherbase and losing morale, they aren't forcing you to use them on missions if you don't want to. Want to solo? Go solo.

[Shaka Khan]

"game"

If anything one of the complaints levied against it right now it the lack of cutscenes and exposition. Fucking nerds can't make up their mind.

"Not enough game"

"Too much game"

"My eyes are dry"

[mormapope]

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain

95% after reviews from IGN, Gamespot, Game Informer, Destructoid, Gametrailers.

"But reviews don't matter!  Look at MGS4 or _____"   

Anyone that uses that rhetoric should clamp up, and realize that blindly hating on MGS V is some butthurt, dumbass shit.
 

Shit talk a game that's been looking good for more than a year brehs.

[Rman]

So reviews are saying this is a game game lol.

Thank fuck!

Poor cutscene loving MGS fans, though.  Kojima trolled them.

[mormapope]

So reviews are saying this is a game game lol.

Thank fuck!

Poor cutscene loving MGS fans, though.  Kojima trolled them.

Eh, a year or two ago Kojima or someone from his team said "don't expect that much story or cutscenes in this one". Paraphrased from my end.

[thisismyusername]

So reviews are saying this is a game game lol.

So was MGS1 and 3.

2 and 4 was because Kojima attempted to do the batshit Patriot plot. MGS3 kinda steered clear of that with the exception of tying it into the plot within the last like 15 minutes of the game.

If anything, people should be complaining about the Codec change. I can understand why they did that (it goes against the F.O.B. "always online" system they are going for with "invasions"/attacks on your F.O.B.) but Ground Zeroes didn't really inspire confidence in me and I wish I could bind that codec button to something else because it's (IMO) useless here. Rising at least buried it in a submenu to where if you wanted to listen to a lot of sidelines you could while you could ignore it and get into the meat and potatoes/hack and slash of that outing.

[Positive Touch]

good god the week hadn't even started and already the internet's insufferable

[El Babua]

Love hearing that even Kojima is throwing the story to the bushes for this one.

[VomKriege]

Without going into  mode, reviews should be taken with a massive grain of salt. Not that I want to trash the game, but it's generally good to wait for the hype hangover to get a fair assessment.

[toku]

Without going into  mode, reviews should be taken with a massive grain of salt. Not that I want to trash the game, but it's generally good to wait for the hype hangover to get a fair assessment.

#facts

[Yulwei]

Agreed that less story is a good thing. I think even MGS3 went a little overboard with the info dumps, so if there's less of those then that is good news to me.

[Cerveza mas fina]

"game"

If anything one of the complaints levied against it right now it the lack of cutscenes and exposition. Fucking nerds can't make up their mind.

"Not enough game"

"Too much game"

"My eyes are dry"

(Image removed from quote.)

The problem with MGS5 from what I played (Ground Zeroes) is that they replaced a highly crafted on rails experience with the usual open world bonanza missions.

And obviously the controls are still not that good, not as bad as 4 but still pretty bad.

[mormapope]

The problem with MGS5 from what I played (Ground Zeroes) is that they replaced a highly crafted on rails experience with the usual open world bonanza missions.

And obviously the controls are still not that good, not as bad as 4 but still pretty bad.

That shit ain't obvious, the controls in general are easy to understand and play around with. Maybe you mean player movement/how Big Boss moves around? There is weight and momentum when you move around, which I prefer over being floaty and gliding everywhere.

[fistfulofmetal]

Wait and see mode. If general consensus from people is that it's good I might pick it up on PC later but I'm not super excited for this. A lot of the stuff I've seen about the game make me iffy.

[Human Snorenado]

BioShock Infinite and TLOU both got great review scores, just sayin...

[thisismyusername]

BioShock Infinite and TLOU both got great review scores, just sayin...

Yeah, and both weren't sandboxes.

"Cinematic Cover-Shooting Experiences" that aren't Uncharted.

[mormapope]

I regret making this thread.

Shit could be incredibly worse in this thread

The people that are excited are mildly excited and don't give two shits about the story or discussing the story 

There are threads out there right now with hundreds of posts talking about shit that may or may not be real 

[VomKriege]

So do we know what we can expect for the poorman version on PS3 ? It seems content should be the same.

[The Legend of Sunblade]

I've been avoiding threads for the game cuz I wanna play it on a blackout. I haven't even seen the trailers an stuff cause I want everything to be new and I know Kojima likes to tease a bit too much.

Just one more week!
 

[mormapope]

So do we know what we can expect for the poorman version on PS3 ? It seems content should be the same.

I'd assume so yeah but there hasn't been much info besides screenshots of last gen versions.

I'm probably going to pick up the 360 version when the game launches.

[Stoney Mason]

I'll play it but the reality is that outside of Metal Gear Solid on psx I don't really love the franchise at the same level that many forum people do.

[VomKriege]

So do we know what we can expect for the poorman version on PS3 ? It seems content should be the same.

I'd assume so yeah but there hasn't been much info besides screenshots of last gen versions.

I'm probably going to pick up the 360 version when the game launches.

Keep up posted then. I don't care for any of the online functionality. If the content is there and the game not a terrible mess on the technical level, I'll probably bite some time in the future.

[Kara]

I should play this on PSTriple without having played Solid 4 or any of the canon PSP games (I played the card-based tactics games).

[tiesto]

It's weird, I love the MGS series (well, 1 and 3 and some parts of 2 and a small part of 4), but part of me isn't super hyped for this one. Hearing that it's 40+ hours long and open world makes me worry the game has a ton of feature creep and isn't nearly as tightly designed as the others. Not to mention I haven't played PW yet nor beat Ground Zeroes.

[Purrp Skirrp]

Yeah, haven't followed the game much aside from watching my brother play Ground Zeroes. Been thinking I should play that already to get used to the controls.

Gonna do the same. Pre-ordering MGS5 on Steam gives you Ground Zeroes for free.

Fuck it, I think this looks dope. Someone said Red Dead + MGS and I get that vibe. Don't care about the story, but I enjoy the Kojima wackiness (to an extent, 4 was too much) and it's looking like this delivers on the gameplay like my old favorite MGS3.

Reviews are turning out better than I expected and yeah, MGS4 got great reviews but the situation's different this time around. Fans aren't as desperate and I think expectations are more grounded.

This is multiplat too so console warriors can't use it to validate their console of choice like MGS4 during those early PS3 struggle years

[nachobro]

Just saw you can xfer GZ PS3 data to V on PS4. Thank god I don't have to 100% that game again to get my stuff on PS4.

[Positive Touch]

never forget

[Himu]

"game"

If anything one of the complaints levied against it right now it the lack of cutscenes and exposition. Fucking nerds can't make up their mind.

"Not enough game"

"Too much game"

"My eyes are dry"

(Image removed from quote.)

MGS has a diverse fanbase. It's pretty simple.

The MGS fanbase can be divided into multiple categories:

1. Those who play for the experience and just play it once, and then drop it. These people treat MGS like any other game and are there for experience of it. These people tended to enjoy 4 highly and seem to be the bulk of MGS' audience.

2. Players who are into MGS for the story and plot and characters almost exclusively, or if not that, it's still the main draw for them. They tend to replay every few years or so for story, but never for new gadgets, unlockables, and whole shebang. These are the players that mostly got something out of MGS4. Since they primarily play for story, and MGS4 was insanely story-focused to a fucking stupid degree, they got enjoyment out of the game.

3. Players who are completionists. These are the players who beat the game on normal first, then replay it on normal or hard mode but with a specific Fox Ranking in mind. They may want to complete the game without any kills and no alerts, or they may want to kill everyone, or maybe the're playing for speed. Then they go from mode to mode to mode and unlock everything, trying to beat the hardest modes in 3 or so hours, skipping cutscenes along the way on each replay. These people (aka people like me) hated 4 because the fact you have to install every chapter made speed running impossible, and the game has too many fucked up forced story areas that are completely unskippable (like that one part where you follow that guy in Act 3 while dressed up Snatcher style) so speed running is tedious anyways, even with the installs fixed. The noticeable lack of gameplay is a huge black mark on the game. This doesn't mean that completionists don't appreciate MGS' humor or zaniness or characters (I especially do) but 4 took it to a fucking dumb ass level. See Positive's post above as an example.

4. Those who are all three.

The MGS fanbase is pretty diverse and we have multiple people playing these games for seemingly COMPLETELY different reasons or if not that, they enjoy different things about them in a different manner.

The fact the story/cutscene fans are getting shit on in this entry is pretty and makes me want to buy this game on day one just to support their tears and them fueling Kojima into making such a travesty of a game after a gaming masterpiece in Metal Gear Solid 3 and 2 Substance. Fuck MGS4 fans. I don't care. Fuck them.

[Himu]

I got Ground Zeroes and it's

It's the real deal.

No tutorials.

Gameplay that pushes the player in classic MGS style, forcing experimentation and learning through sheer experience. Gameplay makes the latest Splinter Cell games look like cow dookie.

Barely any cutscenes. Fuck you MGS4 fans.

Lots of methods of play.

Takes the goal oriented approach of MGS and puts it in one centralized location with lots of hidden stuff and see and do, without having the game on rails like in past games.

If MGSV is anything like this demo.... But I can't get my hopes up. I WON'T. I CAN'T. But GZ is. SO. GOOD.

Knocked out most of it so far, and when I'm done with that I'm gonna speed run the fuck out of it on hard mode. Game is the real MGS deal. No fucking cutscene shit or stupid diarrhea jokes.

[thisismyusername]

Told you, Himu.

[mormapope]

From the sound of things, MGS V will have around 2-3 hours of cutscenes with around 40-50 hours of gameplay if you want to do all the main missions and side missions.

This has made some fans furious, but the story telling in Ground Zeroes is to the point and the actual direction in the cutscenes is excellent. MGS4 had very lazy cutscene direction, the camera movements and such were still lifted from PS2 MGS games. Ground Zeroes felt very cinematic and it doesn't have typical videogame cutscene direction.

Even the dialog and demeanor of characters is a lot more simplified and more down to earth in Ground Zeroes. Getting 2-3 hours of storytelling when Kojima is in his prime and cutting out the bullshit is what this franchise needs after MGS4.

[thisismyusername]

So do we know what we can expect for the poorman version on PS3 ? It seems content should be the same.

Less lights, less vegetation, basically scaled back graphics and resolution with pop-in. Otherwise the engine is 1:1 in terms of gameplay.

Fox Engine is pretty well optimized for cross-gen, weakness of last gen console power aside.

[thisismyusername]

Himu: Which version did you get?

[Himu]

From the sound of things, MGS V will have around 2-3 hours of cutscenes with around 40-50 hours of gameplay if you want to do all the main missions and side missions.

This has made some fans furious, but the story telling in Ground Zeroes is to the point and the actual direction in the cutscenes is excellent. MGS4 had very lazy cutscene direction, the camera movements and such were still lifted from PS2 MGS games. Ground Zeroes felt very cinematic and it doesn't have typical videogame cutscene direction.

Even the dialog and demeanor of characters is a lot more simplified and more down to earth in Ground Zeroes. Getting 2-3 hours of storytelling when Kojima is in his prime and cutting out the bullshit is what this franchise needs after MGS4.

I really enjoyed the storytelling in GZ.

Nice intro cutscene telling why you're about to go on this sneaking mission. Nothing besides that until you manage to get Chico. The amount of cutscenes and their straight forward direction is akin to MGS1 and MG2: SS.

I really like listening to the tapes as well. It's a good replacement for Codec. Oh that's another thing. Fuck 4's Codec. I hate that game. Does V have Codec?

I got it on ps3.

[thisismyusername]

I got it on ps3.

Grab the Steam version when it's on sale in the Winter(? Or this coming week?) and let me know how your Core 2 Duo fares. I'm curious how it performs. Worst case you'd have to refund it.

Also while you're playing:

http://i.imgur.com/qk8JApG.jpg

People are saying you should do all this if you plan to transfer your save to Phantom Pain. The PoW's give you Mother Base people to start off with in Phantom Pain and the NPC's that are important (Eye/Finger) have achievements associated with them anyway.

[toku]

everbody on the train leggo

[mormapope]

MGS has a diverse fanbase. It's pretty simple.

The MGS fanbase can be divided into multiple categories:

1. Those who play for the experience and just play it once, and then drop it. These people treat MGS like any other game and are there for experience of it. These people tended to enjoy 4 highly and seem to be the bulk of MGS' audience.

2. Players who are into MGS for the story and plot and characters almost exclusively, or if not that, it's still the main draw for them. They tend to replay every few years or so for story, but never for new gadgets, unlockables, and whole shebang. These are the players that mostly got something out of MGS4. Since they primarily play for story, and MGS4 was insanely story-focused to a fucking stupid degree, they got enjoyment out of the game.

3. Players who are completionists. These are the players who beat the game on normal first, then replay it on normal or hard mode but with a specific Fox Ranking in mind. They may want to complete the game without any kills and no alerts, or they may want to kill everyone, or maybe the're playing for speed. Then they go from mode to mode to mode and unlock everything, trying to beat the hardest modes in 3 or so hours, skipping cutscenes along the way on each replay. These people (aka people like me) hated 4 because the fact you have to install every chapter made speed running impossible, and the game has too many fucked up forced story areas that are completely unskippable (like that one part where you follow that guy in Act 3 while dressed up Snatcher style) so speed running is tedious anyways, even with the installs fixed. The noticeable lack of gameplay is a huge black mark on the game. This doesn't mean that completionists don't appreciate MGS' humor or zaniness or characters (I especially do) but 4 took it to a fucking dumb ass level. See Positive's post above as an example.

4. Those who are all three.

The MGS fanbase is pretty diverse and we have multiple people playing these games for seemingly COMPLETELY different reasons or if not that, they enjoy different things about them in a different manner.

The fact the story/cutscene fans are getting shit on in this entry is pretty and makes me want to buy this game on day one just to support their tears and them fueling Kojima into making such a travesty of a game after a gaming masterpiece in Metal Gear Solid 3 and 2 Substance. Fuck MGS4 fans. I don't care. Fuck them.

I'm number 4, but MGS4 made me peace out from the franchise for a while. Think that game has that effect on a large part of the fanbase. 

And then the HD collection, Metal Gear Rising, and Ground Zeroes happened   

[thisismyusername]

4 was bad because it was too many cutscenes and overwrote melodrama. I don't mind Kojima's diarrhea jokes, nor did I mind Meryl/Johnny (as stupid as the scene was) but there is literally twelve hours of cutscenes for like... what... 4-6 hours MAX Gameplay?

[thisismyusername]

everbody on the train leggo

Fuck that 13 seconds:

[toku]

i knew that was gonna happen you fell for my trap all according keikaku

[mormapope]

4 was bad because it was too many cutscenes and overwrote melodrama. I don't mind Kojima's diarrhea jokes, nor did I mind Meryl/Johnny (as stupid as the scene was) but there is literally twelve hours of cutscenes for like... what... 4-6 hours MAX Gameplay?

There are 8 1/2 hours of cutscenes and probably 6-8 hours of gameplay on your first playthrough.

Biggest problem is you get talked at for four hours while the other four hours are briefings and drawn out cutscenes. MGS2 has a ton of interruptions and cutscenes as well, but the endgame for all that exposition are some outrageous plot twists and the best mindfucks in all of gaming.

[Himu]

I got it on ps3.

Grab the Steam version when it's on sale in the Winter(? Or this coming week?) and let me know how your Core 2 Duo fares. I'm curious how it performs. Worst case you'd have to refund it.

Also while you're playing:

http://i.imgur.com/qk8JApG.jpg

People are saying you should do all this if you plan to transfer your save to Phantom Pain. The PoW's give you Mother Base people to start off with in Phantom Pain and the NPC's that are important (Eye/Finger) have achievements associated with them anyway.

I saved Chico so one of those POW's is dead. Oh well. I'll get him next time.

[Himu]

4 was bad because it was too many cutscenes and overwrote melodrama. I don't mind Kojima's diarrhea jokes, nor did I mind Meryl/Johnny (as stupid as the scene was) but there is literally twelve hours of cutscenes for like... what... 4-6 hours MAX Gameplay?

MGS1 came out when I was 13. I was in the main target audience at the time. I thought Johnny's toilet jokes were funny. It was never overwrought or had him running to a barrel in the middle of a battlefield to take a dump. He was a small bit minor joke character with literally two lines of dialogue. All the Johnny jokes in 2 and 3 were similar. Johnny has no reason to be a main character, and making his entire schtick into poop jokes when originally, the poop jokes were pretty fucking minor is just way too much.

I love Metal Gear cheese. It's hilarious. A fucking dude cuts off your brothers hand and now talks like him? Amazingly stupid. "CAN LOVE BLOOM ON A BATTLEFIELD?!?!?" "This is like one of my animes!" Amazing. But I have a limit for the shit pulled on in 4. The Mt Rushmore? The entire thing they did with Raiden? The Meryl/Johnny cutscene? A 40-50 minute cutscene? The ending that ruins a lot of characters I *liked*? The wedding? Anything related to Johnny and diarrhea? It was too much and too fucking stupid. In the past, Metal Gear was pretty self aware that it's being fucking dumb and when it wasn't, it was still fucking "holy shit a cyborg ninja sliced all these dudes in half in the hallway and I have to fight him?" on a scale of cool as shit. But 4 felt like it wasn't in on the joke and there's nothing badass about that game at all.

I dare you to speedrun MGS4. You're taken all over the place and the lack of centralized area really hurts it. There's a lot to bitch about in regards to MGS4. Acts 1 and 2 were amazing, but beyond that? Just bad cutscenes and a complete lack of anything that makes Metal Gear good .

[Himu]

everbody on the train leggo

[thisismyusername]

Johnny shitting himself actually has a plot relevance in 4 though. (Which I found kinda neat in a stilted hack-eyed way. ) The Mount Rushmore on the sub was stupid as fuck, though. Yeah.

Raiden actually became pretty cool in 4. I didn't mind him so much in 2, but him being able to cut off Rose and become this Ninja by replacing most of his body parts was neat in an "anime" way. That scene with Vamp was just Kojima homoeroticness cranked to 11.  Plus, that change gave us Rising and Senator Armstong so

I got it on ps3.

Grab the Steam version when it's on sale in the Winter(? Or this coming week?) and let me know how your Core 2 Duo fares. I'm curious how it performs. Worst case you'd have to refund it.

Also while you're playing:

http://i.imgur.com/qk8JApG.jpg

People are saying you should do all this if you plan to transfer your save to Phantom Pain. The PoW's give you Mother Base people to start off with in Phantom Pain and the NPC's that are important (Eye/Finger) have achievements associated with them anyway.

I saved Chico so one of those POW's is dead. Oh well. I'll get him next time.

You have to do it quickly if you save Chico or Paz first. It's honestly easier to go to him first (he's literally in the camp two steps away from your starting area) and extract him from your mission start (or if you want a less "helicopter may be seen" approach, carry him to Chico's camp while tranqing anyone you come across and put him in a cave and haul him + Chico + PoW at Chico's camp into the helicopter after). EZ.

4 was bad because it was too many cutscenes and overwrote melodrama. I don't mind Kojima's diarrhea jokes, nor did I mind Meryl/Johnny (as stupid as the scene was) but there is literally twelve hours of cutscenes for like... what... 4-6 hours MAX Gameplay?

There are 8 1/2 hours of cutscenes and probably 6-8 hours of gameplay on your first playthrough.

Biggest problem is you get talked at for four hours while the other four hours are briefings and drawn out cutscenes. MGS2 has a ton of interruptions and cutscenes as well, but the endgame for all that exposition are some outrageous plot twists and the best mindfucks in all of gaming.

I replayed the game when the trophy patch hit and with all the cutscenes seen it took me nearly an entire day to finish. Like I started at like 8-9 in the morning and the last damn cutscene was playing at midnight. (Act 3's stupid follow mission is the worst part of the game)

[Himu]

Johnny shitting himself actually has a plot relevance in 4 though. (Which I found kinda neat in a stilted hack-eyed way. ) The Mount Rushmore on the sub was stupid as fuck, though. Yeah.

Raiden actually became pretty cool in 4. I didn't mind him so much in 2, but him being able to cut off Rose and become this Ninja by replacing most of his body parts was neat in an "anime" way. That scene with Vamp was just Kojima homoeroticness cranked to 11.  Plus, that change gave us Rising and Senator Armstong so

I got it on ps3.

Grab the Steam version when it's on sale in the Winter(? Or this coming week?) and let me know how your Core 2 Duo fares. I'm curious how it performs. Worst case you'd have to refund it.

Also while you're playing:

http://i.imgur.com/qk8JApG.jpg

People are saying you should do all this if you plan to transfer your save to Phantom Pain. The PoW's give you Mother Base people to start off with in Phantom Pain and the NPC's that are important (Eye/Finger) have achievements associated with them anyway.

I saved Chico so one of those POW's is dead. Oh well. I'll get him next time.

You have to do it quickly if you save Chico or Paz first. It's honestly easier to go to him first (he's literally in the camp two steps away from your starting area) and extract him from your mission start (or if you want a less "helicopter may be seen" approach, carry him to Chico's camp while tranqing anyone you come across and put him in a cave and haul him + Chico + PoW at Chico's camp into the helicopter after). EZ.

That's exactly my point. In 1-3, Johnny is like almost an easter egg or in-joke. Just something for the fans, that lasts all of five seconds. In 4, it has actual plot relevance it's just

I didn't like what they did with Raiden. I was always a fan of him. JACK WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A TV?!?!?!?!?!?!?

And that was my plan. I didn't see the last POW because I went there after they executed him. You don't have to tell me how to do it and spoil strategies.

Can you even speed run MGS4 with the existence of Act 3?