Everyone who fetishizes the 2nd Amendment can fuck off and die already

[TakingBackSunday]

In the wake of this on-air shooting, I'm just fucking over it.  The US has 5 times as many shooting-related deaths than any other country, and gee, I wonder fucking why.  More guns out there and available to the public is NOT going to make us safer.

Just fuck everything about the access to a personal armory in this country, and fuck everyone who still continues to shift the focus elsewhere.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't, generally, have a problem with somebody that wants to own a gun. I do have a problem with somebody that treats a gun like some holy object and gun-ownership like it's a religious act. There's a whole lot of people in that second group recently and I find that very disturbing.

[helios]

It's going to keep happening.

[TakingBackSunday]

Shooting at a range is a ton of fun, but that should be the extent of their availability.  And if you want one for safety, people should have to go through classes, evaluations, testing, all that.

[Great Rumbler]

It's going to keep happening.

Of course it is. Because you have groups like the NRA that attack any and all gun regulations, no matter how sensible or popular they might be, and a gun manufacturing industry that wants more profits and a willing consumer base that buys into these paranoid power-fantasies about the collapse of society. There's no political will to actually get anything done.

Oh, by the way, Seattle passed a law that put a tax on all gun sales, the proceeds from which would go to studying and lessening the impact of gun violence. Guess who's suing over it? Yep, it's the NRA.

And if you want one for safety, people should have to go through classes, evaluations, testing, all that.

And you should have to get a licence and insurance, just like with a car. And if you prove that you're not fit to handle one [also like with a car] your right to have one gets taken away.

[VomKriege]

I'm not certain access itself is the problem, although the very large availability plays a role. The problem is the toxic culture of gun ownership that spawns a lobby that won't give in a single inch towards any sensible measure. I believe that any sane responsible adult (any citizen, in short) should be allowed to buy and own firearms (all handguns and non automatic rifles at least, won't go into the particular, the line between what's civilian and "military" is an arbitrary one). In return they should submit to background checks, registration, gun education.

2nd amendment is fine. People hell bent on a literal reading of it as if it was a piece of religious doctrine are assholes.

[Great Rumbler]

What on air shooting? I'm not surprised there's another shooting, sadly. Just wondering what happened this time.

A reporter and cameraman were shot to death during a live interview in Virginia:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wdbj-shooting-live-newscast-virginia

[studyguy]

I get told to join the NRA every time I go over to my girlfriend's father's place.

Fat old jewish dude living in the suburbs has 4 guns and is trying to get a CCW license, listens to police scanners and all the other shit you'd expect out of a gun nut.

[Joe Molotov]

wtf

[brawndolicious]

I'm not certain access itself is the problem, although the very large availability plays a role. The problem is the toxic culture of gun ownership that spawns a lobby that won't give in a single inch towards any sensible measure. I believe that any sane responsible adult (any citizen, in short) should be allowed to buy and own firearms (all handguns and non automatic rifles at least, won't go into the particular, the line between what's civilian and "military" is an arbitrary one). In return they should submit to background checks, registration, gun education.

2nd amendment is fine. People hell bent on a literal reading of it as if it was a piece of religious doctrine are assholes.

The 2nd amendment isn't practiced in the way it was intended with regards to providing STATE MILITIAS the right to arm, it was originally put in the constitution as a way for the state governments to not feel powerless against the federal governments military capacity so it's useless today. You seem well learned on this subject for a French dude but I just wanted to point out that it really doesn't apply to modern civilian gun ownership.

In America today, we have two types of gun owners: The ones who just like guns cause they're cool and fun (myself included) and then there's the minority who want a paperless trail to gun ownership because they're paranoid the government might take away the one thing that makes them feel powerful in life. That second group of gun nuts is probably a tiny minority but they're backing the NRA/gun lobby.

[Himu]

WHY DID HE HAVE TO BE BLACK?!?!

[Kara]

I personally find the regulation of drivers substandard, so saying that gun ownership should be regulated like driving doesn't really inspire me.

I do like the insurance thing though. Would be great if sellers had to carry a special set of insurance for crimes committed with their sales, I bet the Iron Pipeline would start rusting shut then.

[TakingBackSunday]

this story ended up being batshit, and I really don't want to go into details as to why.  He was black, claimed workplace racism, and calculated a murder.  I can just see what the NRA and closet racists will run with over the course of a few days.

[Himu]

WORKPLACE RACISM?! NOW THIS WILL JUST CREATE MORE ACTUAL REAL WORKD RACISM

[ToxicAdam]

Changing gun culture in America is impossible. We are so desensitized to violence that there is literally nothing that will shock us to our core anymore.

Every year we have 1000+ children get injured in accidental shootings (a significant number are killed) and we don't do anything about it. We don't make guns safer, harder to pull the trigger, punish the parents more harshly. Meanwhile, if a toy chokes one kid or a type of crib causes toddlers to die, we immediately ban it.

It's crazy and it's not going to change.

[Joe Molotov]

Since it was a black dude, we gonna Ronald Reagan in some gun control laws or nah?

[Tasty]

WHY DID HE HAVE TO BE BLACK?!?!

Was expecting a white dude tbh

Guess that makes me a reverse racist

[studyguy]

Holy fuck I had no idea the dude had actually filmed himself shooting them.
Jesus fuck.

 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkCm4Fs0Obo

[close]

 

[TakingBackSunday]

dude fucking delete that

[studyguy]

dude fucking delete that

My bad thought it was a hyperlink, forgot it auto video players or whatever.

[octopushover]

Sad as fuck. Infuriating as fuck.

[Tasty]

NOPEing the fuck out of watching any video of this. Even just thinking about it is making me sick to my stomach.

[Joe Molotov]

fuck

[Tasty]

At least there's a chance he can face justice.

[demi]

That video is :\

I hate guns.

[Great Rumbler]

Holy fuck I had no idea the dude had actually filmed himself shooting them.
Jesus fuck.

 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkCm4Fs0Obo

[close]

 

Immediately closed after the very first frame: a POV shot of a man pointing a gun point-blank at the reporter. 

[Steve Contra]

Gun people are weird.  I've never met anyone who collects guns or that is really into guns who is some closet racist or paranoid sociopath.

[ToxicAdam]

It's not unusual for avid hunters to amass dozens of guns over their lifetime. Different seasons require different types of guns. Certain styles fall out of favor and then you might have relatives that 'will' you their guns and then you hold onto them for sentimental reasons.

Not to mention people that are just hoarders/collectors by nature. It's not always a malicious thing.

[Mr. Nobody]

NOPEing the fuck out of watching any video of this. Even just thinking about it is making me sick to my stomach.

I don't see how people do it.

I couldn't even watch a gif that was posted

[octopushover]

It's not unusual for avid hunters to amass dozens of guns over their lifetime. Different seasons require different types of guns. Certain styles fall out of favor and then you might have relatives that 'will' you their guns and then you hold onto them for sentimental reasons.

Not to mention people that are just hoarders/collectors by nature. It's not always a malicious thing.

"I have a sentimental attachment to my gun" makes you sound real sane.

[Steve Contra]

Hunters are in a different category, as are competition sport shooters.  But people who just collect guns and imagine one day they'll be Liam Neeson in Taken?  Sheesh.

[ToxicAdam]

"I have a sentimental attachment to my gun" makes you sound real sane.

If it was one your dead father used his whole life .. yea, you would.

[Kara]

There are a lot of weird (but logical) rules about hunting firearms too like muzzle loading that I believe vary by region.

[Mupepe]

It's not unusual for avid hunters to amass dozens of guns over their lifetime. Different seasons require different types of guns. Certain styles fall out of favor and then you might have relatives that 'will' you their guns and then you hold onto them for sentimental reasons.

Not to mention people that are just hoarders/collectors by nature. It's not always a malicious thing.

"I have a sentimental attachment to my gun" makes you sound real sane.

I have a rifle that was passed down from grandfather to my father and to me. I will pass it on one day. It's also a rare gun. So I do have sentimental attachments to a gun. But not my others.

I think the argument boils down to modern Americans on average have proven themselves to be too immature to live in a society with current gun laws. Something is horribly wrong on a basic level in regards to how we view violence and self defense. Basic regulations are in order at the very least.

[Great Rumbler]

.

I'm interested in hearing your solutions to this problem.

[Phoenix Dark]

What specific gun law would have prevented this? The man doesn't have a criminal record or a history of mental illness - he would pass a background check. Unless you're solution is a complete ban of guns...

[Great Rumbler]

What specific gun law would have prevented this? The man doesn't have a criminal record or a history of mental illness - he would pass a background check. Unless you're solution is a complete ban of guns...

In this specific case there probably isn't much that could have been done to prevent it, I agree, but I'd at least like for this country to move beyond the notion that the only solution is "more guns, more guns, more guns" and finally make an attempt at a rational effort to reduce gun violence overall.

[brawndolicious]

It's possible the shooter legally owned the gun. An article I read about it said he had a temper problem which was cited as the reason for why he was fired and he was actually escorted out by police after the newsroom was emptied. If there was a restraining order filed against him, then that might have required he surrender any firearms.

[headwalk]

i can't work out if this is a bad day for NRA nutjobs, or their wet dream come to life. a crazy black guy spurned by imaginary racism who comes back to gun them down in their workplace.

[studyguy]

What specific gun law would have prevented this? The man doesn't have a criminal record or a history of mental illness - he would pass a background check. Unless you're solution is a complete ban of guns...

In this specific case there probably isn't much that could have been done to prevent it, I agree, but I'd at least like for this country to move beyond the notion that the only solution is "more guns, more guns, more guns" and finally make an attempt at a rational effort to reduce gun violence overall.

If a guy like this was angry enough to attack with a gun then he most likely would have done just as well with a knife, bat or other such weapon. Unless we're talking about dystopian Minority Report-esque future scenarios where we preemptively stop crime then there really isn't any immediate solution. I'm also of the mind that throwing more guns into the pot to protect against those already armed seems like a lost cause.

An average citizen has a right to bear arms sure, I won't dispute that, but at the same time I'm not wholly comfortable with the mantra that the average person should be strapped 24/7 and be expected to become John McClain at a moment's notice. Living with the expectation to be shot isn't something the average person should have to deal with.

[headwalk]

also RIP slayven. who would've guessed his first name was vester?

[brawndolicious]

It's a bad day if any gun reform comes from it. Or if ammo prices go way up.

[Great Rumbler]

I'm not wholly comfortable with the mantra that the average person should be strapped 24/7 and be expected to become John McClain at a moment's notice. Living with the expectation to be shot isn't something the average person should have to deal with.

Another issue that's not often paired with the "more guns" mantra is the issue of policing. We already, mostly, agree that the police are too heavily armed and too aggressive, but at least part of the reason for that is the threat of violence against officers, which is only amplified by a larger and larger section of the populace being armed themselves [or even potentially armed]. I mean, I have no idea what the actual impact is where these two issue convergence, but I can't help but imagine that it's at least greater than zero.

[Stoney Mason]

I'm pretty sure those brilliant people from three hundred years ago knew exactly how history would play out and we should exalt them like the gods they were in creating the perfect modern agrarian society in a world where Britain is still a superpower!

Yeah. It is what it is. Americans are dumb. And not very fact based or result oriented in their outlook  The older you get the more you come to realize it. If I was younger and smarter, I would have left a long time ago. But I'm old and lazy and my family is here. So 

[ToxicAdam]

2 year old shoots/kills father in Alabama: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/08/21/toddler-accidentally-shot-killed-father-alabama/32105209/

2 year old kills himself in St. Louis: http://www.wsiltv.com/news/three-states/Toddler-Dies-in-St-Louis-County-Shooting-322864361.html


Just in the past 4 days. Nothing unusual about this.

[benjipwns]

What specific gun law would have prevented this? The man doesn't have a criminal record or a history of mental illness - he would pass a background check. Unless you're solution is a complete ban of guns...

Well...he is black...

[Tasty]

competition sport shooters

This is a thing? What the fuck.

Get a fucking bow and arrow you hicks.

[Madrun Badrun]

What specific gun law would have prevented this?

No laws can prevent anything.  Things that would have made it much harder to do.

1) Ban all guns other non-automatic rifles and shotguns. 
2) No open carry anywhere.

[TakingBackSunday]

Also, if you have read his comments in his manifesto...if this dude would have had to go through a psych analysis or if there was any sort of background done on him, it would've been much harder for him to get a gun.

Fuck that dude.

[Joe Molotov]

competition sport shooters

This is a thing? What the fuck.

Get a fucking bow and arrow you hicks.

Have you never played Duck Hunt? I mean, no one liked Skeet Shooting, but it was in there.

[Boogie]

.

I'm interested in hearing your solutions to this problem.

Those who attack others should be arrested and put in jail when possible; if they're killed in self-defense or kill themselves rather than get caught, great, saves on room and board.

Since that's already the case, there's nothing to be solved for.

Anyone who thinks individual human liberty is a problem that needs to be solved should be forcefed a giant bag of dicks.

It's official.  Having a homicide rate 3-5x that of every other developed country is a feature, not a bug.

[TakingBackSunday]

how is being able to own a personal arsenal a human liberty

and dammit stop quoting jaydub dudes

[Boogie]

and dammit stop quoting jaydub dudes

Stop trying to infringe on my individual human liberty.

[Mupepe]

competition sport shooters

This is a thing? What the fuck.

Get a fucking bow and arrow you hicks.

[Kara]

"I can infringe on your individual liberty to fund my bug-riddled freedomtron 5000 into whose FREEDOM you were born without consent," says the minarchist. #TeamBenji

[Rufus]

Changing gun culture in America is impossible. We are so desensitized to violence that there is literally nothing that will shock us to our core anymore.

Yeah, if Sandyhook couldn't spur any change nothing will.

[Steve Contra]

Nah we wanted a bunch of rich white dudes to not pay taxes and vote for themselves.  We didn't really give any fucks about human liberty.

[benjipwns]

People who long for that kind of treatment can take solace that the rest of what remains of that empire is still run that way.

On personal protection for the non-rich. And free speech/press/assembly. But other than FortressUK most of the rest of the commonwealth isn't appreciably worse than the United States. And can be better.

[ToxicAdam]

Yeah, if Sandyhook couldn't spur any change nothing will.

The sad part is that there was another "Sandyhook" in 2006, but most people have already forgotten about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting

[benjipwns]

Bath still wins.