Are small shopowners class enemies?

[benjipwns]

My boss at the pizza restaurant I work at is pretty generous with wages and isn't really super well off himself. He works alongside us and is close to his workers. Are small shop owners (the petty bourgeois) enemies of socialism? Would a revolution forcibly nationalize their small shops?

(And if so – wouldn't this be a little inefficient to have tens of thousands of small shops nationalized? Or would maybe these types of shops and stores still exist in the dictatorship of the proletariat until they naturally die out when socialist distribution makes them pointless?)

[benjipwns]

My boss at the pizza restaurant I work at is pretty generous with wages and isn't really super well off himself. He works alongside us and is close to his workers. Are small shop owners (the petty bourgeois) enemies of socialism? Would a revolution forcibly nationalize their small shops?

(And if so – wouldn't this be a little inefficient to have tens of thousands of small shops nationalized? Or would maybe these types of shops and stores still exist in the dictatorship of the proletariat until they naturally die out when socialist distribution makes them pointless?)

They are enemies of autonomy. I don't want to "nationalize" (or socialize) their business, I want to remove it from the face of the earth.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.revleft.com/vb/small-shopowners-class-t194120/index.html

Rafiq and BIXX are the two best posters.

I think Hatshepsut needs some new synthesis asap

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[benjipwns]

You lied to me Kara, the "learning" section of revleft is wonderful. I need to find a libertarian/an-cap equivalent.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/anarchists-enemies-labour-t150571/index.html?t=150571

I think another thing that would be helpful, if the left stop making the legalization of drug a big issue.

My only problem with anarchy is that it abolishes all authority, even the authprity of the working class over the bourguase. Other than that I tried one of these threads a while ago, conception was that combining stuff isn't always a great idea.

Yeah, I think one of the biggest differences between Anarchists and Marxists is that Anarchists reject the concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat. That's why I'm an Anarchist.

I am an anarchist and I support the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Wait, isn't DOTP a core tenant of Marxism? How is one a marxist without believing in an authoritarian revolution used to give the working class control over the means of production?

I think it really depends on the definition of DOTP. Marxists believe the DOTP should be part of a state structure if I'm not mistaken. At least Leninists do. Anarchists don't want a state at any point. I may be confuse though. I'm not well versed in the various intricacies of Marxism. Their main influence on me is their class analysis and critique of capitalism. I don't oppose expropriation or anything like that, but I don't really feel like that is a DOTP based on the Marxist definition of the term I have come to know.

Marx, hell Lenin, never advocated particularly authoritarian structures in discussing the DOTP.

Simply put, the DOTP is the implementation of the communist economy, and the defense of the gains made by the working class. I don't see how you can oppose such a thing and be called anything other than a utopian.

The problem with the question of the state is that anarchists and marxists define it differently and this leads to problems. The DOTP is only a term used to describe places where working people are exercising power in order to defend the revolution against counter-revolution. This is a natural consequence of organizing for revolution, and it seems silly to shy away from this simply because it uses language that is not inline with bourgeois abstractions such as "freedom" or "rights."

Plus there's a long digression on the various sides of the Spanish Civil War and their fuck ups and people start complaining about it being brought up yet again.

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i was showing solidarity you jerk

solidarity is for wimps

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[Momo]

my ex's dad owned a bunch of small shops, guy was rich as fuck

[benjipwns]

BIXX recommends burning the shops to the ground and re-appropriating the property for worker use. I think he left out a detail somewhere. Or maybe an order of events.

[Momo]

yeah fuck him anyway, I'll burn his business and take his daughters and wife.

solid advice, thanks

[benjipwns]

Make sure to be clear it's really about ethics in means of production ownership.

[Kara]

Make sure to be clear it's really about ethics in means of production ownership.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

revleft

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[jakefromstatefarm]

Wait, isn't DOTP a core tenant of Marxism? How is one a marxist without believing in an authoritarian revolution used to give the working class control over the means of production?

Lenin ha power