Author Topic: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3  (Read 11243 times)

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Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« on: October 06, 2015, 02:07:36 PM »
“Cyberpunk is far bigger than anything else that CD Projekt Red has done before,” visual effects artist Jose Teixeira told MCV. “Far, far bigger."

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/cd-projekt-red-cyberpunk-2077-is-far-far-bigger-than-the-witcher-3/0156903

Great Rumbler

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2015, 02:13:20 PM »
I am so ready for them to do an official unveiling of Cyberpunk, seems like they've been teasing it forever now.
dog

Rufus

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2015, 02:15:15 PM »
Hope it doesn't break their back.

Purrp Skirrp

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2015, 05:33:58 PM »
sci-fi :phil

fantasy :shaq2

Imagine this game's setting bruhs; gives me tingling in the extremities :whew


El Babua

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2015, 08:49:31 PM »
Been dreaming of a massive game in this kind of setting for ages. Give it to meee.

Human Snorenado

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2015, 08:53:49 PM »
Better have satisfying hacking shit

:bolo
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2015, 08:49:04 AM »
Don't fuck up
Don't fuck up
Don't fuck up


Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 03:49:54 PM »
Far far bigger and still with the same 10 things copies and pasted over and over and over and over again. Cool.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 03:54:48 PM »
Far far bigger and still with the same 10 things copies and pasted over and over and over and over again. Cool.

Witcher 3's open world is one of the best ever, though.
dog

Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 04:14:31 PM »
I thought it was boring AF  :yeshrug

It's a huge open world, but there is a fuckload of repetitions. Ranging from character models/animations to stuff to do. The garbage combat gameplay didn't help compensating for that either. Could really have done with a bit more diversity in environments.


Horizon ZD >>>>>> TW3.


But on a more serious note, yes hopefully they fix that shit with 2077

toku

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 05:39:13 PM »
I thought it was boring AF  :yeshrug

It's a huge open world, but there is a fuckload of repetitions. Ranging from character models/animations to stuff to do. The garbage combat gameplay didn't help compensating for that either. Could really have done with a bit more diversity in environments.


Horizon ZD >>>>>> TW3.


But on a more serious note, yes hopefully they fix that shit with 2077


Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 05:47:49 PM »
I thought it was boring AF  :yeshrug

It's a huge open world, but there is a fuckload of repetitions. Ranging from character models/animations to stuff to do. The garbage combat gameplay didn't help compensating for that either. Could really have done with a bit more diversity in environments.


Horizon ZD >>>>>> TW3.


But on a more serious note, yes hopefully they fix that shit with 2077

I'm playing Horizon right now and what you said applies more to it than Witcher 3  :lol


Please. 90% of environments in TW3 are "central european mainlands with the occasional woods and the same fucking village now and then". Even bigger towns aren't exactly unique. I mean obviously given the context of the game you won't get a crazy diversity, but it's just there.
In HZD you have snowy mountains, plains, tropical forest, desert, old world ruins, and the cauldrons, most of these having a roughly equal representation.

Then you have NPCs that outside of the really big, sotry driven ones, are the same fucking handful of characters models, and in dialogues there's the same handful of strictly identical animations used by everyone from random merchant #129 to Geralt.

Don't even get me started on bandit camp #92 and monster nest #241.

Shuri

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 06:17:15 PM »
This thread is making me redownload the Witcher 3, I couldnt get over how CRAP and boring the fighting was the first time I tried it. I'm willing to give it another chance. I also got shocked by all the crafting and things I could pick-up. What the hell..


We'll see..

Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 06:46:58 PM »
It gets better after the 328th rusted bent fork you can sell for 1 gold to your bestie merchant.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
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seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 08:31:17 PM »
Sorry wrath, but I'm still with the W3 sucks plebs. Some of the best dialogue and VO in any game I've played, but goddamn is the actual game a fucking chore. I'm also not into fantasy shit though, so I'd probably be more receptive to a Scifi reskin.

Human Snorenado

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 08:33:30 PM »
People and their fucking opinions in this thread

:jeanluc
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seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 08:40:40 PM »
Are the combat and movement not dogshit? And dont those things make up 90% of the game that isn't cutscenes? What am I missing here?

Let's Cyber

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 09:50:44 PM »
Reading the thread title and link.

 :lawd

Reading the thread.

 :confused

Human Snorenado

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 09:57:03 PM »
Are the combat and movement not dogshit? And dont those things make up 90% of the game that isn't cutscenes? What am I missing here?

In a universe with ACTUAL dogshit combat and movement (every elder scrolls game, even though I loved the shit out of Skyrim, let's be real here) the easy answer is no, no they are not.

Is the combat overly simplistic? Yes, absolutely. Is movement and the camera usually obnoxious, and occasionally infuriating? Again, yes, absolutely.

Are those deal breakers? Well, plenty more people seem to say no they're not than those who say yes, they are. So.
yar

archie4208

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 10:00:01 PM »
The real question is will it come out before 2077?  :doge

chronovore

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 03:47:27 AM »
Don't fuck up
Don't fuck up
Don't fuck up

BTW, you met two of the artists who will be working at it when you were at that party in Osaka. Elpy moved to Tokyo, and those two concept artists jumped ship and moved to CD Projekt RED. I don't think they're on Witcher, so I'm guessing it's this.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 05:28:23 AM »
Are the combat and movement not dogshit? And dont those things make up 90% of the game that isn't cutscenes? What am I missing here?

In a universe with ACTUAL dogshit combat and movement (every elder scrolls game, even though I loved the shit out of Skyrim, let's be real here) the easy answer is no, no they are not.

Is the combat overly simplistic? Yes, absolutely. Is movement and the camera usually obnoxious, and occasionally infuriating? Again, yes, absolutely.

Are those deal breakers? Well, plenty more people seem to say no they're not than those who say yes, they are. So.

So since Skyrim sucked, this doesn't suck? I fully get that I'm the idiot here, but I don't get it. The actual gameplay feels like a shitty Arkham and lame ass fantasy nonsense doesn't float my boat.

I get that most people can apparently get over that, but I guess I can't. I play videogames to have fun and after 40~ hours with W3 I have not had fun, at all. I'm baffled at what it is I'm apparently missing. I just don't understand the near-universal appeal of an ARPG with controls that are so subresponsive and you don't actually get to roleplay anything in
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 05:40:53 AM by seagrams hotsauce »

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 06:01:04 AM »
It's hard to tell what will make or break the impression coming to this game, there's so little they've released about it. They have a talent for creating character and environmental relationships, so my feeling is having a dense, engaging and interactable city will be the thing, besides the story. On the other hand I loved Snatcher despite being a kind of point and click adventure without any real world interaction, though obviously there are different expectations with this type of game and coming from the last.

For me The Witcher 3 got several key things right. Dialog, organic environments (partially aided by landscape generation software), and the way in which the theme of being a witcher tied into most elements of the gameplay and motivations. Something as basic as the reason for going off to fight monsters is because you're a professional monster hunter who needs the money, or how you have more acute senses (detective-vision) and a rather impartial persona (good for RPG decision making) due to the brutal witcher conditioning as a child, and so on. It seems like a small thing but to me it tied these otherwise gamey elements together more believably.

They've set a pretty high bar for themselves. Since a cyberpunk game is such a departure from their previous efforts I think it causes some concern whether they can pull it off. Please be good.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 06:12:40 AM by Coax »

Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 06:18:25 AM »
Horizon has more varied environments, I'll give you that. But forgetting that Witcher goes from fantasy forest to dreary swamp to grimy ass city to viking mountains makes me think you didn't make it far enough into the game to give it enough credit.

I really, really like Horizon, but let's not act like it's world is anywhere near as good as Witcher 3's outside of aesthetic.

Don't get me wrong I'm not claiming it's ENTIRELY what I described (I did mention a "90%" - random figure but you get the point). It's just that these things you're listing are like tiny pockets of the world where you'll most likely spend 30mins for a specific quest and that's that.

The game is massive in many senses yes, but also suffers from a resulting awful lot of repetition, at so many levels.
There's the occasional cool environment, but most of it looks the same.
There's hundreds of NPCs, but most of them look like clones with a different hat colour or whatever.
There's a fuckton of loot, but most of it is utterly useless. You quickly reach the point where you won't even bother looting stuff, because in 99% of cases it's some useless piece of kitchenware or whatever.
There's tons of sidequests, but they fall into a handful of extremely repetitive categories.
There's tons of weapons, but it's a lot of "here's the same one with one of its 5 stats better by 8%". Not even to mention the random garbage swords drops from random grunts. Why would they even make them lootable.

To me it completely defeats the point, because it doesn't take much scratching to realize that the huge scale is meaningless, and it's even counterproductive.
I enjoyed HZD a lot more precisely because it was a lot more focused and diverse.

a slime appears

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 08:50:31 AM »
WESTERN ROLE PLAYING GAMEPLAY SUPERIORITY

 :lawd


PLUS POST-INDUSTRIAL DYSTOPIAN SCIENCE FICTION

 :mindblown

Let's Cyber

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2017, 09:28:15 AM »
I don't mean to go into full fanboy mode but some of this needs to be addressed.  :snob

I love both Witcher 3 and Horizon, for the record.
There's tons of weapons, but it's a lot of "here's the same one with one of its 5 stats better by 8%". Not even to mention the random garbage swords drops from random grunts. Why would they even make them lootable.
This isn't a loot game in the sense of like Diablo or Destiny. You're not checking every dead body and chest for the chance to find an awesome piece of gear, you're looting to get the money and mats to craft the awesome gear.
There's a fuckton of loot, but most of it is utterly useless. You quickly reach the point where you won't even bother looting stuff, because in 99% of cases it's some useless piece of kitchenware or whatever.
:ufup

Why would you stop looting? It's free money and materials. The mats are probably the most important part because the ingots/leather/monster parts allow one to craft the Witcher sets. The Witcher sets are the actual stuff you should be wearing and there is a set to accommodate every general build. There isn't an excuse to be wearing garbage or using basic swords. (6 different sets with the DLC between Cat, Bear, Griffin, Wolf, Viper and Manticore, you can jump from one set to the next as you level up).  Every time I've watched a Let's Play and they're wearing some multicolored burlap sack and they're crying about the "shitty loot" I want to rip my hair out.
There's tons of sidequests, but they fall into a handful of extremely repetitive categories.
Witcher's strength is in the writing, characters and worldbuilding. If you're not invested into those, you're missing out on what makes the game great.

The sidequests and Hunts are basically the "monster of the week" episodes of a TV series. If you really expected each sidequest to provide a new gameplay experience I think you have some skewed expectations of what the game is. They're providing another peak into the lives and people of this very deep and fleshed out (relative to most video games, anyway) universe.
There's the occasional cool environment, but most of it looks the same.
It's pretty clear what the intention was here. They wanted to create a "real", lived in place and they succeeded in a way no other open-world game ever has IMO. To a point they needed to be stick to their source material and the world established in from the books and previous games. There was never going to be a lava level and a ice level and sky level or super videogamey locales. The Northern Realms is an established location with its own history and the story being told primarily takes place during a certain time of year.

It would be like creating a Game of Thrones game based around just King's Landing and the surrounding countryside and being disappointed there is not desert, jungle or ice areas.

Horizon had the benefit of 1) being a new IP and 2) the area the game takes place in is super condensed geographically in relation to the real life equivalent. It allowed for a bunch of different biomes and terrain which really wouldn't have been possible given the size of the area being portrayed. Plus (HORIZON ZERO DAWN SPOILERS)
spoiler (click to show/hide)
There aren't tropical rainforests in Southwest United States.  :doge The sci fi setting allowed them to play around with that kind of stuff and diversify the play areas.
[close]
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:38:30 AM by Let's Cyber »

Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2017, 10:20:28 AM »
I mean, as I've mentioned, I'm not going to argue with a lot of what you said - several of the things I criticize make sense in some way, given the context etc. But because there's a reason doesn't mean that I think it's a good decision. You could cut an awful lot of fat from TW3 and still have the exact same game essentially. It's just pointless padding to me. It would certainly have helped if the combat gameplay wasn't trash, too.

And yeah, I'll still disagree on the loot. For each piece of useful mat, there's 10 pieces of silver spoons and dwarven clay mug and god knows what. Which is super awkward when it's combined to an inventory limit. I personally end up not caring for a maybe useful piece of stuff if that means dozens on button press and inventory dumps.

Let's Cyber

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2017, 10:54:56 AM »
10 pieces of silver spoons
:money

Everything can be sold or broken down. You can break down junk at blacksmiths or just sell it straight up to merchants. Animal hides can yield leather straps for gear crafting. Anything with metal usually yields some kind of ore. How much crafting did you do? I mean, you can be disappointed the Witcher 3 isn't a loot whore game but that doesn't mean the existing systems are poor.

I'm not going to get into "the gameplay is trash" because that's GameFAQs/NeoGAF level of discourse not worth anyone's time.  :hhh

nudemacusers

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2017, 10:55:17 AM »
Horizon comparisons are cool but will cyberpunk 2077 let us play in 4k without checkerboarding?  :doge
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Dickie Dee

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2017, 11:12:56 AM »
I thought it was boring AF  :yeshrug

It's a huge open world, but there is a fuckload of repetitions. Ranging from character models/animations to stuff to do. The garbage combat gameplay didn't help compensating for that either. Could really have done with a bit more diversity in environments.


Horizon ZD >>>>>> TW3.


But on a more serious note, yes hopefully they fix that shit with 2077

What the fuck is this shit???
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Dickie Dee

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2017, 11:18:20 AM »
Did I play a different Horizon: Zero Dawn then everyone else??

I actually loved the game, 1st one I ever platinumed, but god damn the open world quests and characters were SHIITTTT.

Maybe it's because I went into it directly after playing TW3 (I fell off it around Novograd last time) and played through it then H+S and B+W and probably put 250+ hours into it all told.

Quality difference was SHOCKING.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 12:19:57 PM by Mamacint »
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Let's Cyber

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2017, 11:53:53 AM »
When you guys say sidequests do you mean the actual things labelled as such or just general open world "side" stuff like collectathons?

The quests under the "Sidequests" tab in Horizon are generally of pretty good, i.e. the devs put some time and effort into them. Not Witcher 3 good but they're not throwaway MMO-type trash like a lot of open world games. 

Dickie Dee

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2017, 12:22:51 PM »
Some are decent, but others where you go what the fuck even is this guy?  :lol

Granted I'm still playing through it, damn good game but it has it's flaws. I don't hold it against it because A) It's a damn good first attempt at this type of game from Guerrilla B) It's their very first good game in general.

I think it got better later on, but I swear some of the more minor NPCs sounded like Barney the Dinosaur.
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Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2017, 12:37:22 PM »
10 pieces of silver spoons
:money

Everything can be sold or broken down. You can break down junk at blacksmiths or just sell it straight up to merchants. Animal hides can yield leather straps for gear crafting. Anything with metal usually yields some kind of ore. How much crafting did you do? I mean, you can be disappointed the Witcher 3 isn't a loot whore game but that doesn't mean the existing systems are poor.

I'm not going to get into "the gameplay is trash" because that's GameFAQs/NeoGAF level of discourse not worth anyone's time.  :hhh

Again, my point is that they just went into OMG OVERDRIVE mode. There's just way too much of it and it ends up being really detrimental to the enjoyment of the game. I don't care for spending hours recycling a ton of garbage into some ore that then needs to be refined again and then forged of whatever. HZD has exactly the same system, it's just a lot more focused. Want to upgrade something? Hunt for a bit, done. Same for making potions. It's just so much smoother than it doesn't turn into a boring pain in the ass.

Nioh has exactly the same issue btw. I couldn't get myself to beat it, it just became a fucking snooze fest. Gave up at the 4th region.

Himu

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2017, 12:39:45 PM »
Are the combat and movement not dogshit? And dont those things make up 90% of the game that isn't cutscenes? What am I missing here?

Are the combat and movement not dogshit? And dont those things make up 90% of the game that isn't cutscenes? What am I missing here?

In a universe with ACTUAL dogshit combat and movement (every elder scrolls game, even though I loved the shit out of Skyrim, let's be real here) the easy answer is no, no they are not.

Is the combat overly simplistic? Yes, absolutely. Is movement and the camera usually obnoxious, and occasionally infuriating? Again, yes, absolutely.

Are those deal breakers? Well, plenty more people seem to say no they're not than those who say yes, they are. So.

So since Skyrim sucked, this doesn't suck? I fully get that I'm the idiot here, but I don't get it. The actual gameplay feels like a shitty Arkham and lame ass fantasy nonsense doesn't float my boat.

I get that most people can apparently get over that, but I guess I can't. I play videogames to have fun and after 40~ hours with W3 I have not had fun, at all. I'm baffled at what it is I'm apparently missing. I just don't understand the near-universal appeal of an ARPG with controls that are so subresponsive and you don't actually get to roleplay anything in

wrpg fans tend to ignore gameplay for story. Or generally consider gameplay to *be* story. idk. that said, i haven't played witcher 3. Don't have time for another bloated rpg after P5. So you're making choices and stuff in the rpg, to a wrpg fan, you're doing gameplay. They don't care about battle systems/combat or anything. They have a stronger emphasis on stories and storytelling than stuff like risk/reward, resource management, dungeon design;etc. that is more typical of a gameplay-focused jrpg for instance. So the reason they don't care that the Witcher 3 (apparently) controls like ass is because they consider making story choices and good writing good enough.

It's one of the main things separates a wrpg from a jrpg.  I'm surprised this bothers you as this is par for the course with wrpgs. Because almost all of them action rpgs these days and almost all of them are what you described: games that control and play like complete ass, but have choice. Even I'm not immune to it (New Vegas controls like ass but dem choices and creativity :aah).

If you're looking to play a wrpg with actually good gameplay, I suggest playing Divinity: Original Sin. It's kind of an outlier in how good the gameplay is and the fact it's coming from a western studio? :mindblown

Sorry breh but most of your complaints come down to the genre. Jrpg fans have high expectations of gameplay, low expectations of story; wrpg fans have low expectations of gameplay, high expectation of story.

It's weird. lol
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:03:01 PM by Queen of Ice »
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Himu

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2017, 12:46:45 PM »
sci-fi :phil

fantasy :shaq2

Imagine this game's setting bruhs; gives me tingling in the extremities :whew

agreed. fantasy is mostly kinda wack and I have to be in a specific mood for it. I vastly prefer sci-fi and modern settings. So if this game is a legitimately deep sci-fi game I'll be playing it, modern rpg bloat and all.
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Rufus

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2017, 01:16:09 PM »
wrpg fans tend to ignore gameplay for story. Or generally consider gameplay to *be* story. idk. that said, i haven't played witcher 3. Don't have time for another bloated rpg after P5.
I do think action oriented CRPGs get a pass for shonky combat, yes. But only so long as every other aspect holds up. VtM: Bloodlines and New Vegas have pretty aren't exactly stand-out action titles, but they do everything else right. Fallout 4, conversely, gets shit on in CRPG circles. Mechanically sound shooting, best in the series from everything I've seen, but not great everything else. At least in terms of what many people want from RPGs.

Additionally, many if not most past and modern classics have clunky or simplistic combat, going back to Ultima Underworld, so there might just be some cultural acceptance for it among long-time genre fans.

Expectations are higher for top down CRPGs and first person dungeon crawlers, either turn based or real-time-with-pause. Systems, tactical options and (often overlooked) encounter design.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:25:32 PM by Rufus »

Himu

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2017, 01:20:17 PM »
Sure, but until recently first person dungeon crawlers and top down games were kinda dead. So the perception was (and is) that crpg fans don't give a fuck about gameplay and only story. Also until recently, action rpg crpg was the only kind of crpg viable. Even today it's still the most common type. Thankfully there's alternatives for those with taste. :rejoice
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Rufus

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2017, 01:21:27 PM »
As you said earlier, combat isn't the only thing considered gameplay. It's a sum-of-all-parts thing.

Himu

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2017, 01:31:42 PM »
It isn't the only thing, sure. But as said, item/resource management and dungeon design are pretty important facets of rpgs that kind of set aside by wrpg studios after some point in the 2000's. There's exceptions to the rule, certainly. But usually wrpg gameplay tends to be entirely story-focused. It's not bad, but if you're going into an arpg like Seagrams hoping for a game with good gameplay on top of story (which is fairly reasonable), you're going to be shocked at how this crappy playing arpg with shallow combat system and turrible dungeons is if you're not clued into the fact that modern wrpgs emphasize choice as a gameplay mechanic above all else.
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seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2017, 01:43:43 PM »
Witcher 3 barely offers choice though

Rufus

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2017, 01:57:39 PM »
"Entirely story-focused" is going much too far, even considering the likes of Mass Effect and Dragon Age, which were the series' championing player choice the past decade. Fallout 3 (and onwards) and the Elder Scrolls games are notable examples, too. People don't give a shit about the story in those games and they're often ridiculed as boring or dumb, with the most interesting story content residing in side quests.

The only CRPGs I can think of where "story first" is very much true are Planescape: Torment and Betrayal at Krondor. Both are essentially interactive novels. You still spend a lot of time fighting in either, but it's not the main attraction at all. All other CRPGs that I can think of have important and well fleshed out pillars besides story; from world building/design (which I suppose can count as 'story', in the widest sense), to exploration and character progression. CRPGs that are carried by their story alone are far and few between.

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2017, 02:07:26 PM »
You sure about that? People played Mass Effect for the choices. Peoples main motivating is the story. It's not as story-heavy as Planescape, but it's very much centered around its story. So people excuse the dog shit shooting, awful planets, terrible dungeons, low ris/reward, bad resource management because of the story. Fallout is another example. Terrible shooting, terrible physics. By all parts would normally be considered a shit game. But New Vegas offers great choice. It does more choice than just in story though. It's so non-linear that it offers it within the gameplay. 3 is a better example, though. Modern wrpg game design is all about getting you into the story, and very, very few about dat gameplay like was the focus in games like BG2. Even in something like Bloodlines, the main emphasis is on your story choices and what you did this playthrough or what kind of dialogue you got as this race. 

So then a game like Witcher 3 comes out, apparently plays like dog shit, and people don't care because the story is so high caliber.
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fistfulofmetal

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2017, 02:17:17 PM »
I watched my girlfriend play Horizon and throughout it was super obvious it heavily influenced by Witcher 3. So much of the world and mission design is very directly one-to-one.

But Witcher is a much more complex game when it comes to the quest system and how it interplays with the main campaign. Comparing the combat is pointless because they're both attempting to do different things. It's like comparing Battlegrounds to Call of Duty, they're both FPS's but have completely different intentions.

Horizon definite felt like a fan's attempt to mimic the Witcher design. Didn't quite get there but it was a good attempt.
nat

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2017, 02:19:22 PM »
Witcher 3 barely offers choice though

100% incorrect.
nat

Rufus

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2017, 02:24:23 PM »
Quote
You sure about that? People played Mass Effect for the choices. Peoples main motivating is the story.
Yes. Bioware stories are all about characters and now 'choice' (or reactivity), but they still very much hold up as games. (Well, DA2 excluded...) Mass Effect 2 wouldn't have won GOTY awards for its story alone. It's fun to play, too.

Quote
Fallout is another example. Terrible shooting, terrible physics. By all parts would normally be considered a shit game.
And many do, but they're incredibly successful, because they're massive, very distinct worlds with as much freedom as Bethesda are willing to give people these days, with TONS of random shit to see and do in every direction. To boil that down to 'story' is shortselling what those games are. You inhabit that space in way you simply don't if you were to select those stories you encounter from a menu or whatever.

As before, it's very much a sum of its parts thing.

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2017, 02:29:12 PM »
Calling Witcher 3's combat *dogshit* is such a weird hyperbolic description. I don't know how the general consensus got there. It's not the best combat system but it's completely serviceable. It allows a lot of different approaches between various heavy vs. light attacks combined with your various Witcher Signs.

It felt like a refined version of Witcher 2 which was already pretty good overall.

nat

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2017, 02:32:14 PM »
I haven't played Witcher 3. I am only explaining the mindset being applied to the likes of Seagrams and possibly why he didn't get into it. I doubt the combat is dogshit. It was willful hyperbole to use as an example. Combat in western action rpgs is hardly one of their strengths. Just reality.

I disagree Rufus. I think modern wrpgs are all about being in a story and making choices. That's pretty much their go to and little else. If you want that old school type rpg where there's a semblance of progression and depth within the gameplay and its mechanics its usually best to play indie. As said, a game like Divinity Original Sin is more my style.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2017, 02:39:15 PM »
Quote
I think modern wrpgs are all about being in a story and making choices. That's pretty much their go to and little else.
No, you're being too reductive, but I don't care enough to dispute it any longer.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2017, 02:59:08 PM »
Dogshit is over the top, but it's really unsatisfying to me. I feel like I'm fighting against the game half the time, but I wonder if that feeling wouldn't be mitigated by playing with a controller instead of kbm. As far as choice goes, maybe I just haven't been exposed to it yet, but the 'choices' so far seem to boil down to 'kill this guy/don't kill this guy' and 'curve this chick/sleep with her'. Then again, I'm 'only' 40 hours in, so there's plenty of shit I haven't seen yet.

I don't dislike it, it's a really good game, but I just don't really get why it's lauded as much as it is. It feel likes the videogame equivalent of a novel, and to be honest I don't play videogames for the story. If there's a good one, that's a nice addition, but it's not the main focus for me, and maybe that's why it doesn't connect for me as it seems to with everyone else.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2017, 03:05:28 PM »
Quote
but I wonder if that feeling wouldn't be mitigated by playing with a controller instead of kbm

Yeah, you're definitely doing it wrong.
dog

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2017, 03:10:35 PM »
but I wonder if that feeling wouldn't be mitigated by playing with a controller instead of kbm.

i mean. yes.

nat

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2017, 03:19:57 PM »
I played with KBM, too. :B

It's fine, provided you don't lock on to your targets. Soft lock is enough. You don't want your camera hard locked to any target unless there's only one. And even then... Also, side-step > lunge in most cases.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2017, 06:11:11 PM »
There is, in a lot of ways, a fundamental difference in the priorities of WRPGs and JRPGs, Himu rightly pointed out earlier in the thread. WRPGs tend to rely more on serious storytelling and worldbuilding versus the animu trash of JRPGs [which some people like! I'm just sayin'], while JRPGs tend to rely more on gameplay systems [Prole only plays the loli pantsu games for their gameplay! honest!], although this is definitely a generalization since you can find outliers in both genres. But as a rough outline, this basically works.

In terms of western RPGs and the way that they are, The Witcher 3 stands near the top of the pile. The quests are generally more interesting, the world is better crafted, the characters more fleshed out, ect. While I wouldn't say that it's got the best combat of any WRPG, I found it to work well enough and rarely if ever felt it to be any kind of a hindrance, and there were enough different tools with your weapons and powers to keep it from being one-note. Can't speak to the controls on kbm, since I played on controller, but it was a bit fussy originally before they released an update that offered a slightly modified control style that I thought worked better.

And if you haven't done the Bloody Baron questline or the Blood and Wine expansion, just go and do those right away. They're arguably the game at its peak, so if those still don't do anything for you then the game as a whole just may not be your bucket of fish [or whatever phrase you wanna use here].
dog

Dickie Dee

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2017, 06:23:30 PM »


Chamomile!

Best line in vidya history.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2017, 06:31:48 PM »
Playing W3 with kbm

 :holeup
yar

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2017, 06:57:37 PM »
I want this game to be pure 90s

I command all true cyberpunks to watch MAX KNIGHT ULTRA SPY in anticipation of this cool video game

:bow :bow2

SPOILER ALERT
spoiler (click to show/hide)
At 1:15:30 they fight the final battle inside Half-Life
[close]

chronovore

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2017, 07:41:21 PM »
I want this game to be pure 90s

I command all true cyberpunks to watch MAX KNIGHT ULTRA SPY in anticipation of this cool video game

:bow :bow2

SPOILER ALERT
spoiler (click to show/hide)
At 1:15:30 they fight the final battle inside Half-Life
[close]

"Go get ready.  We're taking reality to the next level."

Raist

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 will be bigger then Witcher 3
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2017, 02:59:35 AM »
Still waiting on a game to top Shadowrun - and I'm talking the SNES-era game, not the garbage namesake released recently.