Author Topic: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris  (Read 14275 times)

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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2015, 09:24:24 AM »
That fucking gaf thread


Get this blood drive bullshit the fuck out of these threads. Now is not the time to be arguing for gay rights, Jesus Christ, a lot of people died for a fictional God today, have some respect.
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VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2015, 09:55:37 AM »
That fucking gaf thread


Get this blood drive bullshit the fuck out of these threads. Now is not the time to be arguing for gay rights, Jesus Christ, a lot of people died for a fictional God today, have some respect.

Over a dozen people have been gunned down at a place me and my mother used to hang out, 300m at most from the place I lived most of my life in. My brother work in close proximity to the Bataclan, a concert hall my SO did went to several times. A lot of my acquaintances might have been there (luckily so far everyone seemed to have been safe and sound yesterday). Sorry to be so crass about it, because I do count my blessings of being born in what is still -despite the tragedy- one of the less shitty places on this planet... but I think I am entitled to go on a tangent if I feel like it. Especially in relation to a blood drive linked to helping the medical services cope with the treatement of those wounded in the attacks.
 :yeshrug

I'll happily discuss anything related attacks with you if you wish so. As you may have seen, I make no bones about the military response to that threat.

EDIT : I am sincerely thankful that you care. Real talk.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:12:00 AM by VomKriege »
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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2015, 10:25:42 AM »
Don't want to be apologetic for those screw ups or a state of permanent war without any borders, but I think it would be a bit foolish to dismiss the efficiency of armed action. War can be a totally apt way of destroying or at the very least suppressing hostile groups long enough to work some sort of political solution. There is no automatic correlation and automatism between repression and enemy recruitment, even if of course you must strategize to minimize that factor. Western military doctrine may struggle with "irregular warfare" but the truth is that some counter insurgencies (Western led or not) did in fact succeed.

It is very difficult to succeed with an enemy centric (military focused) counter insurgency doctrine unless you act swiftly at the start of hostilities. British Army Colonel C.E. Callwall aptly wrote in his 1896 "Small Wars," that "it is an established canon of the art of war that seizure of the initiative at the outset and its maintenance thenceforward, is one of the best assured means of commanding success." This has proved as true in the insurgencies since WW2 as it was in the 19th century.

The success rate of military action becomes much less likely to succeed once the insurgency has infiltrated the political structure. Unfortunately, that mark has already been missed in Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Mali, and now likely Libya and the Sinai. Ironically, the more military the West uses, the more failed states are created, and the better the opportunity for these insurgencies to gain political dominance. As you said, this is a borderless, multinational insurgency. The best soldiers in the world couldn't sort this out because killing people obviously isn't enough and frequently creates more problems as Hyoushi mentioned.

Kara

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2015, 10:57:58 AM »
Maybe we should take the analysis to the inter-pol thread and leave the current events stuff for this one.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2015, 11:00:25 AM »
Maybe we should just take back North Africa instead and govern it again

brawndolicious

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2015, 11:07:19 AM »
It's important to keep in mind that this isn't ISIS being particularly brutal. They're just stepping up their attack on Western targets to shock those governments and cause a reaction. A couple years after the invasion of Afghanistan, Dick Cheney was saying that the Taliban was permanently crippled now that over a quarter of their fighters were dead which makes the cost in lives for America worth it. But look at how crippled the Taliban is today.

ISIS may be thinking that the only way to get foreign countries to stop their involvement is by getting a chance to kill soldiers on the ground until France, Russia, etc give up forever in 5 years thinking they've hit ISIS hard enough to permanently cripple it. I think the best thing to do is to just step up air strikes and arming allies in the region and accept that concerts and other large targets in the West are going to need to be guarded by soldiers.

Shadow Mod

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2015, 11:12:48 AM »
You never really cripple the consistently victimized populations. Destabilize the shit out of regions all people have left is anger and desire for retribution.

VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2015, 11:29:38 AM »
I am only an amateur of military theory, mind, and it is obvious military should just be a mean to a political end... And the "political end" has been the lacking part in Afghanistan, Irak and Libya and consisted in pie-in-the-sky dream of nation building and propping up guys which never had the means to insure what we expected them to do. Not that I want to be a monday morning general : those failures happened because we have to compose with the reality of what is there and none of that will ever be a perfect fit.

However I would say that ISIS assuming the form of a state may make a good case for increased military action (...but that's what we are doing yet). At the very least, it would deny them some of the medium to heavy ordinance, funding and political traction. I fear that if allowed to grow, this brand of Radical Islamism may become a very grave threat (short of "existential"), and I suspect we would be better off with a decade long low level warfare than dealing with a collection of radical theocracies*. But the short term political implication of that is playing ball with Russia, Kurds, Iran and/or Bachar el Assad (Asshole must be gleeful as of now) which comes with its own massive set of problems as far as culling the impetus between all those terrorist Sunni movements.

Hell man, if I had a solution, I would have run for elections.

* The counterpoint to that is that to some extent Iran has normalized its status as a nation-state. Some reporters who have met ISIS leaders says that some of them have hinted at that. Have a hard time feeling comfortable with the idea.

EDIT : Would maybe more fitting in the politics thread indeed. Will further respond there.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 11:40:10 AM by VomKriege »
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Shadow Mod

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2015, 11:33:21 AM »
I have no solutions but I think a lot of people could do well to revisit World War I and its aftermath.

brob

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2015, 11:40:52 AM »
Not sure of the exact law, but the FAQ mentioned a total impossibility. At the very least way more stringent conditions making it close to impossible.

A guy on GAF pointed out that there was some real medical statistics to back that decision. I guess ultimately, normalized (instead of clandestine or fringe) gay relationships will dull most of that statistical risk. Still sounds a bit fucked up on the face of it.

the medical statistics used to back up the ban on gay blood is the revelation during the HIV epidemic that straights could get it too. Hospitals aren't really into the idea of testing blood when they can just ban various "at risk" groups. HIV probably isn't terribly common in parisian gays these days, but I suppose they think too many at risk exclusions is preferable to too few.

Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2015, 01:09:00 PM »
From NYT:

Quote
Seven of the Paris attackers died in suicide bombings, and an eighth was shot by police. Officials say accomplices may still be at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-attacks-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Seven died in suicide bombings? Where were these bombings?

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2015, 01:10:04 PM »
What's the chance that France brings NATO into Syria for this?

Shadow Mod

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2015, 01:10:22 PM »
From NYT:

Quote
Seven of the Paris attackers died in suicide bombings, and an eighth was shot by police. Officials say accomplices may still be at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-attacks-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Seven died in suicide bombings? Where were these bombings?

Thought a couple were outside the football stadium, you can even hear the booms in the game feed.

Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2015, 01:13:50 PM »
From NYT:

Quote
Seven of the Paris attackers died in suicide bombings, and an eighth was shot by police. Officials say accomplices may still be at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-attacks-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Seven died in suicide bombings? Where were these bombings?

Thought a couple were outside the football stadium, you can even hear the booms in the game feed.

Right, those are the two that have been reported. That leaves more bombings that I haven't heard about.

Rufus

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2015, 01:16:53 PM »
I think the shooters in the Bataclan blew themselves up after they were done shooting.

Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2015, 01:20:39 PM »
What's the chance that France brings NATO into Syria for this?

I think that's the big question right now. Hollande's speech seemed to be a precursor to invoking Article 5. "Act of war [...] jihadist army [...] organized from abroad," etc. The US did after 9/11 resulting in the 13 year commitment of ISAF in Afghanistan.

Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2015, 01:29:01 PM »
Two suicide bombings at the SDF and one at a McDonalds according to this WSJ article. One was stopped from entering stadium by security:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571

Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2015, 01:32:50 PM »


More updated info here:

https://twitter.com/jackyaljaz

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2015, 01:43:28 PM »
What's the chance that France brings NATO into Syria for this?

I think that's the big question right now. Hollande's speech seemed to be a precursor to invoking Article 5. "Act of war [...] jihadist army [...] organized from abroad," etc. The US did after 9/11 resulting in the 13 year commitment of ISAF in Afghanistan.
Ya that's what I was thinking too.  And can we go into Syria without also going into Iraq?  Also with Russia, Syria and NATO would be pretty scary.   Sounds like another shitty decade a head of us. 

This is a good timeline, since I was 13 when 9/11 happened and don't remember much of the important bits

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/events_77648.htm

Steve Contra

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2015, 02:51:56 PM »
A friend of a friend was killed at Le Bataclan.  Not a happy morning.
vin

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2015, 05:19:31 PM »
A friend of a friend was killed at Le Bataclan.  Not a happy morning.
Yikes, sorry to hear that for your friend. :(
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2015, 05:56:41 PM »
Sorry to hear that Steve.  :(
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2015, 06:44:35 PM »
Not to pit one tragedy against another tragedy but for what its worth there were also bombings in Beirut yesterday.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/11/lets-pray-for-beirut-the-same-way-were-praying-for-paris/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34805466

nudemacusers

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2015, 08:34:48 PM »
Sorry to hear that, Steve. French-bore hang in there.
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chronovore

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2015, 10:26:12 PM »
Not to pit one tragedy against another tragedy but for what its worth there were also bombings in Beirut yesterday.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/11/lets-pray-for-beirut-the-same-way-were-praying-for-paris/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34805466
Yeah, I saw that. Some of my more contrarian friends are posting Woe Unto the World because Paris is getting all the attention, but Beirut isn't being mentioned. I haven't figured out how to politely say, "Well, bombings in Paris are still an unusual event."

It is bullshit that Facebook turned on the Safety Check feature for Paris but not Beirut. Seems like they're still finding their footing there, as it was the first time the feature was used for a terrorist incident rather than natural disaster.

VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2015, 04:11:49 AM »
A friend of a friend was killed at Le Bataclan.  Not a happy morning.

Sorry to hear that.

Otherwise, Belgium have arrested people in Saint-Jean Molenbeek, probably in relation to this... again. I spent a few days in a youth hostel there some years ago and I know it had a bad reputation but it didn't seem to be that bad.

I am a bit gutted for Beyrouth too. It is a bit ridiculous how raw of a deal they have over those issues for the last 40 years.

EDIT : There were reports from September 18th that French counter intelligence had arrested a man back from Syria which had plans for an attack against a yet unspecified concert.

http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2015/09/18/arrestation-d-un-ex-djihadiste-qui-aurait-projete-des-attentats-contre-une-salle-de-concert_4762141_1653578.html

Maybe the same, maybe the sign of a few terrorist strike policy.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 04:24:51 AM by VomKriege »
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brob

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VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #88 on: November 15, 2015, 12:52:43 PM »
Rumors of shootings at the République gathering. Please be not true.

Edit: Apparently the crowd gathered is a bit jumpy and a few panic moves have occured in Les Halles and Place de la République (Rue Bichat as well where the first attack had taken place).

Rumors from news channels of shots heard maybe in rue Charlot (close to Place de la République as well) but thankfully nothing serious it seems.

Police have said no incident, just fireworks (Thanks, dumbfucks).
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 01:07:54 PM by VomKriege »
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Kara

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2015, 01:09:11 PM »
I am valuable, and rad.

Joe Molotov

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #90 on: November 15, 2015, 02:40:57 PM »
I am valuable, and rad.

And cute as gosh. :uguu
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VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2015, 06:16:05 AM »
Beethoven third symphony on all radio channels now as a follow up to the minute of silence.
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Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2015, 07:41:52 AM »
I have to say, I got quite emotional when I heard the football fans where singing the anthem when leaving the stadium.

Such a beautiful anthem.

VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2015, 12:47:28 PM »
Having a beer near the Bataclan. Lotsa cops, horrible traffic. Quite a lot of people at the vigils. Morale is good tho. Cheers !
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2015, 01:27:39 PM »
My fellow conservatives are really pissing me off. Here's a few things I feel like need to be said

"Let's just go bomb them back to the stone age"  Okay, but this is a lot like pouring gasoline down an ant hill. The minute you set it on fire the buggers will crawl out of 30 different holes you didn't know about.

"Let's BAN refugees, period"  This is EXACTLY what ISIL wants you to do, hence the fake passports. They want these people back home where they can hang them and put them in mass graves for violating the set way of life with their western standards.

"OMG we're doomed"  France will survive. Israel has survived. We survived. Don't let these people change your way of life or they win.

So what do we do AiA?

We do what we should have done 30 years ago. Single out the Saudi's who are funding these operations (and trust me, it's saudi's) and cut their financial head off. Eliminate their oil sales and oil fields, and combat their idiocy with education. That's about all we can do.

Oh outside of ***gasp actively partnering with Iran (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) but we can never let that happen....stupid
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Tasty

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2015, 01:33:57 PM »
Gonna be fun in 15-20 years when demand for oil plummets and Saudi is left without a foot to stand on. :doge

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #96 on: November 16, 2015, 01:34:49 PM »
Gonna be fun in 15-20 years when demand for oil plummets and Saudi is left without a foot to stand on. :doge

:rejoice


Meanwhile the USA has what, 30 times the oil reserves of SA but continues to pretend like we ain't storing that shit for a rainy day?
YMMV

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2015, 01:38:52 PM »
I don't support bringing refugees here but I largely agree with your post (not a conservative though).

We've bombed them to the stone age before - how did that work out? Ultimately this is not a conventional fight, so speaking about it in conventional terms makes no sense. Ultimately this fight is not ours, it belongs to ME allies. I'm fine with providing logistics and doing things our allies can't do (like certain airstrikes) but ultimately I want no major US intervention.

ISIS is losing territory, and has been for months. They are not winning. Dudes with machine guns and homemade bombs can literally kill a bunch of people in nearly every city in the world - it's a small scale attack with high casualty rates. It should not be taken as evidence ISIS is gaining strength or capabilities. Anyone demanding US ground troops over this or previous ISIS acts is an idiot.

We're not cutting off SA anytime soon breh. But I like the fact that we seem to be moving away from a purely antagonistic relationship with Iran. And becoming more energy independent also helps.

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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #98 on: November 16, 2015, 01:41:48 PM »
Agreed, ground troops for what reason? You can't fight a coward. These people are cowards. Those who fight behind masks can win nothing.

Hasshassins sounds really cool, these ISIL idiots look up to them. They got their balls ripped out in the end. So will these people. We need based Khan style intelligence and logistics. I mean shit he did it all of 800 years ago and some change. History repeats itself.


Hopefully Anonymous does some real good here and gets some inside details as to their power structure and how they obtain funding. That would be very valuable intel....much more valuable that bombing Jihad Johnnie and then being told you missed  :snoop
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #99 on: November 16, 2015, 01:46:46 PM »
I'm going to assume the CIA has more info than Anonymous could possibly obtain...but if they want to expose members n shit that's fine I guess.

We already know they're selling oil and they're probably selling military equipment too.
010

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #100 on: November 16, 2015, 01:48:51 PM »
Glad you're safe, VK.

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #101 on: November 16, 2015, 01:49:04 PM »
I'm going to assume the CIA has more info than Anonymous could possibly obtain...but if they want to expose members n shit that's fine I guess.

We already know they're selling oil and they're probably selling military equipment too.

We already know its the Saudi's backing them. We know who we THINK their leader is. Truth is though, we are very far behind. Iran has fucking offered to give us their intelligence and of course we just sneered at them and said something about Ron Reagan or something....sigh

Truth is Iran knows it's the Saudi's and we just want to keep closing our ears and eyes to the fact.
YMMV

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #102 on: November 16, 2015, 01:53:05 PM »
My fellow conservatives are really pissing me off. Here's a few things I feel like need to be said

"Let's just go bomb them back to the stone age"  Okay, but this is a lot like pouring gasoline down an ant hill. The minute you set it on fire the buggers will crawl out of 30 different holes you didn't know about.

"Let's BAN refugees, period"  This is EXACTLY what ISIL wants you to do, hence the fake passports. They want these people back home where they can hang them and put them in mass graves for violating the set way of life with their western standards.

"OMG we're doomed"  France will survive. Israel has survived. We survived. Don't let these people change your way of life or they win.

So what do we do AiA?

We do what we should have done 30 years ago. Single out the Saudi's who are funding these operations (and trust me, it's saudi's) and cut their financial head off. Eliminate their oil sales and oil fields, and combat their idiocy with education. That's about all we can do.

Oh outside of ***gasp actively partnering with Iran (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) but we can never let that happen....stupid

How awesome would it be to have a response of a multi-billion green energy / oil independence program.  It would be a pretty big FU to both the Saudis and Russia.   

Boogie

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #103 on: November 16, 2015, 01:54:30 PM »

Hopefully Anonymous does some real good here and gets some inside details as to their power structure and how they obtain funding. That would be very valuable intel....much more valuable that bombing Jihad Johnnie and then being told you missed  :snoop

:lol. :lol. :lol

You're a funny man, AiA.
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #104 on: November 16, 2015, 01:56:00 PM »

Hopefully Anonymous does some real good here and gets some inside details as to their power structure and how they obtain funding. That would be very valuable intel....much more valuable that bombing Jihad Johnnie and then being told you missed  :snoop

:lol. :lol. :lol

You're a funny man, AiA.

Oh trust me I know they'll end up dDos'ing some random arabic server In Syria and proclaiming a moral victory. Just wishful thinking.
YMMV

Tasty

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2015, 02:11:55 PM »
Didn't these guys declare war on Mexican cartels then pussied out because, surprise, those guys are fucking violent and insane and will protect their business by any means necessary?

From what I've seen ISIS can be just as brutal, so uhh, good luck with this one Anonymous. I'm sure this'll go fine and there won't be any consequences like with the cartels. ISIS are pushovers as we all know. :doge

VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #106 on: November 16, 2015, 02:43:33 PM »
Glad you're safe, VK.

Thanks, cheers.

I wouldn't get my hopes high of seeing Western powers throwing the Gulf monarchies under the bus (Qatar as well has been pouring a ton of money, especially in France.) because there's a lot of strategic interests (Suez is a fairly important route still) in all the wider region and we won't divorce from that. The truth is there's not a lot a savory partners to pick from. Turkey, Israel, Lebanon are probably those with the most compatible political system and they all have their fair share of issues (Lebanon is a bit of a non player, anyway). Jordan, if I am not mistaken, is a solid ally and one that have been the most forthcoming at putting money where its mouth is (That's to adress what Phoenix Dark said : Our partners down there like to talk the talk but they also love not being commited to anything too explicit and love to defer the work to the Western players despite all of the shiny toys we send them).

Long term I think the best way to improve the situation is to see a couple major regional powers shifting to something akin to a "liberal democracy". Egypt and Iran would be two I have in mind, but the recent events in both countries have been a huge letdown and we are not there yet. Things are equally gray further west : Tunisia is struggling as well with its transition from the Arab Spring. No one knows how Algeria (Second biggest defense budget in Africa) will turn out when the last of the FLN Old Guard dried fingers will finally let go of the levers.

Until then we are stuck with a democracy doing a bad impression of colonialism 50 years too late and a band of old rich aristocrats sucking up all of the wealth while pandering both to our interests and to one of the most retrograde ideologies in order to placate their populations and I really don't know if there's a way for us to undercut them while still getting what we need (or want, choose the word most situed to your political beliefs).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 02:53:15 PM by VomKriege »
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2015, 03:11:31 PM »
Well now they have officially threatened Washington DC. Your move, Obama.
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #108 on: November 16, 2015, 03:17:09 PM »
Rush Limbaugh "We don't want Iranian support. Iran wants an unstable region so they can forward their control of the area"

Are you fucking kidding me? How can you control a headless snake, Rush? What a fucking moron.

Edit: For those keeping score at home Iran is in this to get further lifts on our sanctions so they can rebuild their airlines and update their infrastructure as well as further their nuclear research.

Personally none of this bothers me. I don't think they'd be dumb enough to cross the nuclear line to weaponary. I say this considering they know we have satellites that can pick us a gnat's ass on a BMW going 50 mile per hour. And thy know we are more than capable of electronic surveillance as well.

Let's help them help us, n'est pas?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 03:22:34 PM by Am_I_Anonymous »
YMMV

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #109 on: November 16, 2015, 03:24:12 PM »
Well that and I'm sure we are a major player in the whole clandestine weapons trading  as well. In sure "Made is USA" is stamped all over nuclear capable hardware and technology.

YMMV

Kara

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #110 on: November 16, 2015, 03:28:37 PM »
Siemens technology was a big part of the Iranian nuclear program iirc from what I read about the Stuxnet scandal.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #111 on: November 16, 2015, 03:30:23 PM »
I say this considering they know we have satellites that can pick us a gnat's ass on a BMW going 50 mile per hour. And thy know we are more than capable of electronic surveillance as well.


I know that was hyperbole, but this is actually physically impossible.  You can't have (high orbiting) satellites that can read license plates either.  This is a great read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_for_Future_Presidents

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #112 on: November 16, 2015, 03:30:44 PM »
Siemens technology was a big part of the Iranian nuclear program iirc from what I read about the Stuxnet scandal.
Siemens technology was a big part of the Iranian nuclear program iirc from what I read about the Stuxnet scandal.

Would make sense. They have manufacturing plants that require a higher security clearance than doing work at an airport.
YMMV

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #113 on: November 16, 2015, 03:31:55 PM »
I say this considering they know we have satellites that can pick us a gnat's ass on a BMW going 50 mile per hour. And thy know we are more than capable of electronic surveillance as well.


I know that was hyperbole, but this is actually physically impossible.  You can't have (high orbiting) satellites that can read license plates either.  This is a great read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_for_Future_Presidents

I am aware. I was just addressing the fact they ain't assembling shit on Tuesday at lunch that ain't popping up in a red flagged "action now" email by the 3pm martini.
YMMV

brob

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2015, 03:41:21 PM »
Imagine if the US started pushing for MENWFZ rather than embroil themselves in panicked fever dreams about Iran. :spin

brawndolicious

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2015, 04:56:00 PM »
Sunnis are like 90% of Muslims and they're the ones ISIS is trying to get support from. While kurds and Shias are actually willing to fight hard against ISIS, that's probably only going to go on for as long as they threaten their borders/cities (read: no 10 year occupation). 

I also think having Iranian soldiers be an aggressive force that goes into mostly Sunni regions of Iraq and Syria to kick out the new caliphate will probably lead to an even uglier longterm result. The best solution would have been for moderate Sunni militias to destroy ISIS in return for greater political representation in Syria but that ship's sailed. Probably the only solution now is for Russia to directly prop up Assads army while the NATO countries do their own airstrikes and gather intelligence on how to cripple ISIS logistically. It is relatively easy for a modern military to get rid of ISIS for a few months but how do you maintain a stable state where ISIS used to be without some new radical militias popping up?

Rufus

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2015, 06:08:46 PM »
With a spiffy new dictatorship in Iraq.

VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #117 on: November 17, 2015, 03:40:18 AM »
Yeah you don't really. Short term harming their capabilities, reducing them to a state of roaming bands is probably the best we can do.

It's what happened in Mali. Preventing them from reaching mass.
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VomKriege

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #118 on: November 17, 2015, 05:38:45 AM »
Well now they have officially threatened Washington DC. Your move, Obama.

In truth it doesn't change anything. USA is already on the list of targets, as most European major countries. France and French interests has been attacked by a variety of radical islamist groups for the last 20 years. It will not stop until they achieved their political goals (which even in their most minimalist form might be unacceptable to us, both regarding our involvement in those regions or the potential slaughter of apostates and any sort of religious or ethnic background not to their liking) and maybe not even then considering how that absolutist, dogmatic propaganda about "Crusaders" has been dripped on their base for many years now regardless of how much the leadership really believes it.

Current form of military action over there is likely the most that Western governements can afford either materially (though it could always be stepped up) or in relation to what the electorate is willing to support. Next step would require a much more robust political project and let's be frank, it probably doesn't exist in light of what followed up Iraq or Libya campaigns. We're buying time, to speak plainly : in itself it is a legitimate objective but it will only go so far.
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Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
« Reply #119 on: November 17, 2015, 05:49:19 AM »
Maybe fighting fundamentalists is like fighting pests and weeds, it's just something you have to keep doing to keep them at bay, there is no winning.

Pulling them out at their roots is harder but will keep them away longer then just blowtorching the surface.