Both Wachowski's transgender

[Stoney Mason]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lilly-wachowski-transgender_us_56df7585e4b0860f99d717d3

Kinda of fascinating in a sort of how things have changed in my lifetime and over a relatively short amount of time.

I remember when Andy announced/was rumoured to be, it was still seen as "weird" and something to goof about in "normal" society.

Cut forward a few years and while of course there are large pockets of society that would still classify it as such, its no longer publicly acceptable to do that anymore. Small steps but still nice.

[Trent Dole]

Some Matrix-y joke about pill goes here.

[thisismyusername]

Wachowski Brothers->Wachowski Sisters.

Sunrise->Sunset.

[benjipwns]

IIRC, way way way back, the rumors weren't clear on which brother supposedly was. And there was all kind of "one is transgender, one is gay", etc.

And then once Lana came out, people seemed to move on to the point that:

Wachowski wrote her coming out was the culmination of a year-long saga of media outlets threatening to publish stories on her transition, including a recent incident when a Daily Mail reporter appeared on her doorstep

Is weirdly disturbing.

Also, Lilly is better looking. It had to be said. TO PROVE MY HETEROSEXUALITY.

Monique Staloch · Seattle, Washington
So, the stats will now say there are two more ' female ' directors. What a joke, when actual women/females fight tooth and nail for good gigs, more money, and recognition. They have more than one thing in common with conservative thinking.

Kyle Fitzwater · Shift Manager/cashier/greeter/ovens/occasional pizza maker at NY Pie - Nashville
she is responsible for one of the top grossing movies ever? pretty sure she already had respect but whatever. fucking weirdos will soon have more rights than normal folks. where is the equality in that?

FACEBOOK COMMENTS

[Phoenix Dark]

First they came for the Wheaties boxes.

[chronovore]

Some Matrix-y joke about pill goes here.

Yeah, blue pill is to go back to sleep, ignore the reality of the situation. Pretty clear in retrospect.

[toku]

Wachowski sisters have yet to make a bad movie. Sucks that she had to do this to pre-empt some garbage news site/paper though.

[benjipwns]

The Wachowskis owned both a PlayStation 2 and Xbox video game console and played several games such as Splinter Cell and Halo 2.[103] Reportedly during a Halo deathmatch, they destroyed their Xbox.

gasp transgender violence

[Mandark]

Speed Racer has to be my favorite movie under 50% on Rottentomatoes.

[benjipwns]

Wow, 29% rating from the Top Critics.

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[Human Snorenado]

Speed Racer has to be my favorite movie under 50% on Rottentomatoes.

[chronovore]

The Matrix is not overrated. It was pretty much the most amazing thing in ages, it's too bad the sequels shit the bed.

It's been an age since I saw Bound, but I recall liking it more than I expected.

[Phoenix Dark]

Has any film's legacy been hurt more by its sequels than The Matrix? It's an amazing film on nearly every level and is crazy influential but a lot of people heavily associate it with the disappointing second and apparently horrible (I still haven't seen it) third film. I remember when just about everyone except the most dedicated nerds agreed Reloaded was boring, MTV did that famous parody of it, etc.

Like if you talk about how awesome Jurassic Park was nobody says "yea but Lost Word and III were trash tho."

[thisismyusername]

Has any film's legacy been hurt more by its sequels than The Matrix? It's an amazing film on nearly every level and is crazy influential but a lot of people heavily associate it with the disappointing second and apparently horrible (I still haven't seen it) third film. I remember when just about everyone except the most dedicated nerds agreed Reloaded was boring, MTV did that famous parody of it, etc.

Like if you talk about how awesome Jurassic Park was nobody says "yea but Lost Word and III were trash tho."

 

But most everyone agrees the first is good and worth watching. It's only the sequels that get trashed. So, I mean, it's like your Jurassic Park bit. People don't bother to mention Reloaded or Revolutions, generally. It's only if they're brought up/mentioned that most people will give their opinion on them.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Matrix is legit one of the best films ever made especially in the sci fi genre.

[Mupepe]

Yeah I don't know anyone who rates The Matrix negatively based on the quality of the whole trilogy.  Anytime you mention The Matrix though you're guaranteed to get a "The first one is great but the other two..."

[zomgee]

I liked V for Vendetta. It was impossible to translate the whole book but I liked what they did.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Guys. Guys....Jupiter Ascending

 

[Steve Contra]

The bore is so inclusive that a trans discussion gets turned into whether or not the Matrix is overrated without batting an eye.  And it's not overrated, Jesus.

[toku]

Guys. Guys....Jupiter Ascending

 

Great movie. One of my favorites. Love space goth royalty.

[Take My Breh Away]

Has any film's legacy been hurt more by its sequels than The Matrix? It's an amazing film on nearly every level and is crazy influential but a lot of people heavily associate it with the disappointing second and apparently horrible (I still haven't seen it) third film. I remember when just about everyone except the most dedicated nerds agreed Reloaded was boring, MTV did that famous parody of it, etc.

Like if you talk about how awesome Jurassic Park was nobody says "yea but Lost Word and III were trash tho."

All I remember out of the Sequels was the ending to "Path Of Neo" on the Xbox. Which was a significantly better ending than the third film.

[Stoney Mason]

The Matrix films definitely took a hit in reputation short term after the prequels and perhaps long term in the sense that the series would maybe have turned into a never ending Star Wars thing but among movie buffs and film fans the original still stands strong.

[Mandark]

The bore is so inclusive that a trans discussion gets turned into whether or not the Matrix is overrated without batting an eye.  And it's not overrated, Jesus.

The Matrix is right there with Pulp Fiction as very 90's movies which I keep expecting to age badly, but really enjoy whenever I go back and watch them.

[chronovore]

I wish they'd gone a whole different way with the sequels. I wouldn't have minded if it became an endless Star Wars thing, but they'd have to remove Neo from it. Or make him the villain, a la "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Which would have been sad but also awesome.

[mormapope]

Compared to other franchises, the Matrix sequels aren't even that bad.

Terminator series has been fucking thrashed. Terminator 3 was one of the most disappointing sequels of all time, movie borderline doesn't exist to people nowadays. Alien series got Alien 4: Resurrection, which makes Alien 3, an okay movie, look great. Predator is in its own unique hell.

[Joe Molotov]

The Matrix is the 90's. Betrenchcoated edgelords shooting guns, hacking the internets, going into VR, doing sick stunts, rocking out to Dragula.

[mormapope]

I wish they'd gone a whole different way with the sequels. I wouldn't have minded if it became an endless Star Wars thing, but they'd have to remove Neo from it. Or make him the villain, a la "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Which would have been sad but also awesome.

The scope and cast of characters got way too big way too quickly. The first Matrix movie is pretty intimate when it comes to how many characters there are, how many people are on the ship, the confrontations and battles that crew deals with. The Matrix is a pretty cozy movie in general.

I think humanity fighting itself along with the machines would've been a lot more interesting as a story. Zion or whatever it was, was pretty boring but played a big part in the sequels. Either axe Zion or change what humanity is and how people function in the modern age.

[Great Rumbler]

The only good thing about the sequels was the highway chase from Reloaded.

Also, does anybody remember that mechs vs. robots battle from Revolution? My God, what a boring mess.

[chronovore]

I wish they'd gone a whole different way with the sequels. I wouldn't have minded if it became an endless Star Wars thing, but they'd have to remove Neo from it. Or make him the villain, a la "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Which would have been sad but also awesome.

The scope and cast of characters got way too big way too quickly. The first Matrix movie is pretty intimate when it comes to how many characters there are, how many people are on the ship, the confrontations and battles that crew deals with. The Matrix is a pretty cozy movie in general.

I think humanity fighting itself along with the machines would've been a lot more interesting as a story. Zion or whatever it was, was pretty boring but played a big part in the sequels. Either axe Zion or change what humanity is and how people function in the modern age.

It's also odd that all the machines which kept Zion alive were clearly a massive technological achievement, but every fucking person there is wearing homespun because apparently "looms" are outside the reach of their tech.

But you've neatly identified a central problem: trying to open up the world to many more characters, too quickly. We immediately have That Guy from LOST replacing Tank/Dozer, His Wife, His Wife's Sister. We got Captain Morpheus' Ex and her possibly-Asian lieutenant. We got her Ex, the speech-impedimented Commander Locke; we got a Magical Caucasian Old Guy Senator; we got Neo's super-fan; we got Bane-who-is-Smith; it is a bit much, all at once.

We had factions within Zion, and that's natural, but the central message of "keep the faith, in the face of facts" is some weird message to mix in with "Well, Neo's actually just a glitch." I mean, really, what is the actual theme of RELOADED and REVOLUTIONS? Plinkett needs to weigh in on this.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

I'm pretty certain, like at least 70% sure, that they actually directed way more of V for Vendetta then they were credited for. "Officially", they only did the ending fight scene, "officially", but the career of James McTeigue has been remarkably unspectacular when he's not affixed to a Wachowski production.

Also, Bound is fecking great. All three of its leads got career best parts/performances in it, and its one of the most densely and cleverly plotted noirs I can recall.

I would say that this might have been a problem for her career, but really, the back-to-back-to-back financial meltdowns of the last three Wachowski movies will be the real obstacle to them ever getting a big budget anything to make ever again. I'll always be excited to see what they come up with next, but I'm not expecting it to be anything of especially high profile in the near or perhaps even far future.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

the great thing about The Matrix Reloaded is when you give a prominent part to a barely disguised Cornell West, well, that's a really great way to front load your political perspective.

No beating about the bush there.

[mormapope]

Magical Caucasian Old Guy Senator

I was hyped as fuck for Reloaded. Went in there Day 1 expecting the GOAT movie.

I think it was when Neo and Magical Caucasian Old Guy Senator had that talk on the balcony that I realized the movie kind of sucked.

I'd say this is the scene that did this for everyone:



It's like we're watching a grunge version of the Flintstones.

[chronovore]

That scene is also kind of a difficult fap.

[chronovore]

The bore is so inclusive that a trans discussion gets turned into whether or not the Matrix is overrated without batting an eye.  And it's not overrated, Jesus.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic movie. When I say overrated I'm talking about the dumb fanboys who are all "the plot is sooooo deeep and the world is soooo rich with ideas you don't even know".

As far as sequels killing the first movie's reputation or legacy I'm going to go with the big one: Highlander.

WHat seQUEls? THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

[benjipwns]

I think shooting the sequels together was a mistake, it didn't give them time to figure out what exactly the hell they did to their universe in Reloaded and so Revolutions drags on and gets even goofier rather than tidying up the good stuff introduced in Reloaded.

The Matrix is the 90's. Betrenchcoated edgelords shooting guns, hacking the internets, going into VR, doing sick stunts, rocking out to Dragula.

2002, but whatevs

[Mupepe]

Ya'll are forgetting about Monica B. in Reloaded.

And the staircase fight scene is pretty amazing too. 

Outside of Zion and everything related to it Reloaded was pretty fucking good.  Revolutions is complete crap though.

"You'll handle us?  YOU'LL HANDLE US!?"

[zomgee]

"You see: he's just a man."

If I want to watch some eye candy with some neato disco techo music I watch the chateau fight.



It's silly but I like it. Also Mero just stands there with his arms crossed.

And then just a few minutes later there's those silly albino powdered donut ghost dudes that do... basically nothing the entire film.

[Mupepe]

So best line from the trilogy?

Gotta be "you think that's air you're breathing now? Hm"

[zomgee]

"Woah."

Actually I like all the interactions between Neo/Anderson and Morpheus. They are so pseudo-philosophical and laden with such gravitas but I can't help but enjoy them.

"A prison... for your mind.

[Mupepe]

"He's gonna pop."

[tiesto]

Magical Caucasian Old Guy Senator

I was hyped as fuck for Reloaded. Went in there Day 1 expecting the GOAT movie.

I think it was when Neo and Magical Caucasian Old Guy Senator had that talk on the balcony that I realized the movie kind of sucked.

I'd say this is the scene that did this for everyone:



It's like we're watching a grunge version of the Flintstones.

I actually liked that part, especially the accompanying Fluke song. While Reloaded and Revolutions didn't have a patch on the original I didn't detest them as much as most people... the plot faltered a lot but some of the set pieces were still quite imaginative (final battle against Smith, the rave, blind Neo visualizing the Matrix as pure energy)

[bork]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.  There was only one Matrix movie. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Joe Molotov]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.  There was only one Matrix movie. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

The Animatrix short that I saw before Dreamcatcher is still real to me!

[thisismyusername]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.  There was only one Matrix movie. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

The Animatrix short that I saw before Dreamcatcher is still real to me!

Actually that collection of stuff wasn't too bad. I'd throw that in with the original Matrix on "worth watching."

[zomgee]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.  There was only one Matrix movie. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

The Animatrix short that I saw before Dreamcatcher is still real to me!

Actually that collection of stuff wasn't too bad. I'd throw that in with the original Matrix on "worth watching."

Yup. I actually have a hard time watching The Second Rennaissance because it is so bleak.

[chronovore]

Agreed! Animatrix is some top-notch stuff. It also kicked off a load of anime companies doing tie-ins for other western properties, which is pretty cool.

Ya'll are forgetting about Monica B. in Reloaded.

And the staircase fight scene is pretty amazing too. 

Outside of Zion and everything related to it Reloaded was pretty fucking good.  Revolutions is complete crap though.

"You'll handle us?  YOU'LL HANDLE US!?"

The main trouble with RELOADED is that nothing really happens. It feels like a filler movie, and then REVOLUTIONS fails to really make any sense, and then be boring while doing it.

[Great Rumbler]

Reloaded probably gets bashed a bit more than it really deserves because what it setup ended being such a complete disaster. Had Revolutions been a really good movie, or at least not garbage, Reloaded would be looked at a bit more fondly. The original escapes unscathed because 1. it's an actual good movie and 2. it tells more or less a complete story that doesn't require a sequel to wrap things up.

[Stoney Mason]

The origin is a perfect blend of pop philosophy, cool fights, and traditional storytelling of an unwilling hero rising to the occasion and overcoming a challenge. Probably the most popular template for this style of movie.


The sequels never get that balance right again. There are moments of cool fights, or cool philosophy, or hero moments, but the balance is so out of whack that it makes you feel weird watching it. You are caught between feelings of jesus christ another fight, or thinking what some character is saying is overly pretentious and dumb, or just feeling like what's the point of neo. What is his goal?

Stepping back they are average to decent movies. Better than the star wars prequels for example which are almost complete garbage. But as a movie, the Matrix is this perfect plotted lean movie with no fat on it. The sequels are full of fat. You feel smart and cool watching the first movie. I often felt cringey watching the sequels.

I was probably one of the biggest Matrix fans on the planet around the time of the first one. So it hit me especially hard at the time when the sequels ended up as they did. I spent a lot time denying they were disappointing.

[chronovore]

Off the Matrix, the W siblings' other work are uneven but always inspired. Speed Racer is crazy. It is hard to know for whom they made that movie. Many boritos seem to love it; I enjoyed it but it was just nuts. It also marked the start of Matthew Fox's WTF am I doing career after a promising start. V for Vendetta is weird, very subversive, but then so is the source material. Again we see essentially terrorist forces as heros in an oppressive environment, similar to the Matrix. I haven't seen Sense8 or Jupiter Rising, but I imagine the theme is at least present?

[thisismyusername]

Better than the star wars prequels for example which are almost complete garbage. But as a movie, the Matrix is this perfect plotted lean movie with no fat on it. The sequels are full of fat. You feel smart and cool watching the first movie. I often felt cringey watching the sequels.

Exactly. Outside of the Albino Ghost twins (MUH STYLE), the freeway chase, Monica Belluci (MUH KISSES), and that's about it: What does the Matrix sequels bring to the first one? At least the Animatrix's shorts/stories have some impact. Outside of the Square Pictures one which lead to the game-sequel intros.

The only post-Matrix Wachowski film I've seen is Butt Atlas which was just... uh... yeah.

[Stoney Mason]

I only watched 2 or 3 episodes of Sense8 but it felt off like the matrix sequels did to me. I'll eventually come back to it and complete the season. Maybe it gets stronger.

[thisismyusername]

I would have liked a Cloud Atlas that was nothing but the Future Seoul story.

The problem with CA wasn't the various settings. It was just a mess to follow. IIRC even people that read the book said the book was just as bad at having the plot interspersed through the various time periods and jumping back-and-forth.  If it flowed chronologically, it probably wouldn't have been a bad exploration of the human spirit.

[PlayDat]

Speed Racer has to be my favorite movie under 50% on Rottentomatoes.

Equilibrium for me .  I need to watch Speed Racer eventually.

[Take My Breh Away]

Speed Racer is fine as long as you remember that it's deliberately an intentionally hammy and cartoony 80's kids movie through and through. It's not exactly internet shitflinging worthy.

That Michael Giacchino soundtrack, though

spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Ninjas?"
"More like Non-jas"

[close]

[Joe Molotov]

Saw Speed Racer on opening night with my buddies, we were all geeking out.

[Great Rumbler]

Speed Racer was LIT. But this is coming from someone who likes cheesy 80's kid movies and loved the English dub of the anime.

[benjipwns]

I've (obviously) got a similar complaint regarding the revised politics is V for Vendetta as Alan Moore. Plus I think it strips out a lot of the more ambiguous characterization of the main characters. Especially the main government guy. And V being a blatant hero. And all the added 9/11/Bush years/Iraq allegories.

Plus it seemed slow and boring. But then the book wasn't exactly an action movie to me, a lot like Watchmen.

But then they didn't direct it so it's probably not all their fault.

[VomKriege]

V was never gonna be anything more than a shell of the comics. Making the villains outright surrogate nazis and the whole inside job angle was indeed terrible.

[zomgee]

V was never gonna be anything more than a shell of the comics. Making the villains outright surrogate nazis and the whole inside job angle was indeed terrible.

I'm glad for some of the scenes though. The attack on BTN was well done, and Evey's transformation was great. I liked Stephen Fry's character, too.

The book was just too long to make a 2 hour movie from and the time/place being shifted hurt. Also the way Susan (lol Sutler) died was waaaaay off. I can understand not filming Finch dropping acid at Larkhill. The subplot of Conrad/Helen/Alistair Harper was left out but it didn't follow the message of the movie - which might be the problem after all.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lilly-wachowski-transgender_us_56df7585e4b0860f99d717d3

Kinda of fascinating in a sort of how things have changed in my lifetime and over a relatively short amount of time.

I remember when Andy announced/was rumoured to be, it was still seen as "weird" and something to goof about in "normal" society.

Cut forward a few years and while of course there are large pockets of society that would still classify it as such, its no longer publicly acceptable to do that anymore. Small steps but still nice.

Who gives a fuck? They just need to stop making shitty movies.