Gregg Popovich is an insightful guy (Colin Kaepernick thread)

[Let's Cyber]

There have been a lot of boneheaded and ignorant #hottakes from various sports personalities in relation to Colin Kaepernick sitting (now kneeling) for the national anthem.  From Dabo Swinney, to Mike Ditka and Drew Brees, a lot of rich whites dudes get upset about how songs and flags are treated.  People dealing with systematic oppression?  Not so much

It's refreshing to read an opinion a bit more in nuanced that doesn't involve hiding behind a flag to stifle an important conversation

http://deadspin.com/gregg-popovich-explains-america-1787139771

full transcript here

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2016/09/26/spurs-gregg-popovich-said-he-respects-the-athletes-who-are-protesting-the-national-anthem/

“I absolutely understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, and I respect their courage for what they’ve done. The question is whether it will do any good or not because it seems that change really seems to happen through political pressure, no matter how you look at it. Whether it’s Dr. King getting large groups together and boycotting buses, or what’s happened in Carolina with the NBA and other organizations pulling events to make it known what’s going on. But I think the important thing that Kaepernick and others have done is to keep it in the conversation. When’s the last time you heard the name Michael Brown? With our 24/7 news, things seem to drift. We’re all trying to just exist and survive.

“It’s easier for white people because we haven’t lived that experience. It’s difficult for many white people to understand the day-to-day feeling that many black people have to deal with. It’s not just a rogue policeman, or a policeman exerting too much force or power, when we know that most of the police are just trying to do their job, which is very difficult. I’d be scared to death if I was a policeman and I stopped a car. You just don’t know what’s going to happen. And part of that in our country is exacerbated by the preponderance of guns that other countries don’t have to deal with. It gets very complicated.

"At this point, when somebody like Kaepernick brings attention to this, and others who have, it makes people have to face the issue because it’s too easy to let it go because it’s not their daily experience. If it’s not your daily experience, you don’t understand it. I didn’t talk to my kids about how to act in front of a policeman when you get stopped. I didn’t have to do that. All of my black friends have done that. There’s something that’s wrong about that, and we all know that. What’s the solution? Nobody has figured it out. But for sure, the conversation has to stay fresh, it has to stay continuous, it has to be persistent, and we all have a responsibility to make sure that happens in our communities.”

Basic empathy can go a long way.

BONUS:  Nebraska college player's statement on kneeling for national anthem, describes racist response

http://deadspin.com/nebraskas-michael-rose-ivey-addresses-racist-responses-1787133198

[Great Rumbler]

The way a significant slice of the population treats people who don't display "the proper amount and type of patriotism" is some really disgusting stuff. And then you've police unions calling on police/sheriff departments to withhold security from sporting events where athletes kneel during the anthem instead of stand? Get out of here with that noise.

[benjipwns]

Pop is a well known America hater, look at all the foreigners he puts on his Spurs teams. Jobs that could have gone to hard working Americans.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Remember this, many of these international players drafted high up don't have that much experience. They are drafted on potential because they're so young, 18 or 19 years old, and because of an individual workout. But these guys haven't gotten the job done night in and night out, 30-35 times a season, like a college player in America.

You heard the magical word "upside" so many times on Thursday night. What about some downside? I know most people won't agree with me, but see me in three years when we'll have the real evaluation of these draft picks. I feel we will see a backlash involving the foreign players. I believe there will be a number of flops, with several guys unable to endure the long term of an NBA season. It is certainly different than the pressures of playing abroad.

It's definitely a dilemma. NBA scouts and administrators often look for and find the warts of our college players because they see them so often. They search for and talk about their negatives. Think about analyzing guys like Nick Collison, Dwyane Wade, T.J. Ford, Jarvis Hayes, Kirk Hinrich, Reece Gaines, etc. Scouts have seen them so many times over the course of a season and during their college careers, and often people don't spend enough time looking at the positives.

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

I didn't expect Kaep's action to take off like this. The support he has received, and the conversations this has sparked among black athletes, has been great.

Pop is Pop, he's the man. If I could eat dinner with any NBA related person (outside of Rosalyn Gold-Onwude ) it would be him.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Pop is a well known America hater, look at all the foreigners he puts on his Spurs teams. Jobs that could have gone to hard working Americans.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Remember this, many of these international players drafted high up don't have that much experience. They are drafted on potential because they're so young, 18 or 19 years old, and because of an individual workout. But these guys haven't gotten the job done night in and night out, 30-35 times a season, like a college player in America.

You heard the magical word "upside" so many times on Thursday night. What about some downside? I know most people won't agree with me, but see me in three years when we'll have the real evaluation of these draft picks. I feel we will see a backlash involving the foreign players. I believe there will be a number of flops, with several guys unable to endure the long term of an NBA season. It is certainly different than the pressures of playing abroad.

It's definitely a dilemma. NBA scouts and administrators often look for and find the warts of our college players because they see them so often. They search for and talk about their negatives. Think about analyzing guys like Nick Collison, Dwyane Wade, T.J. Ford, Jarvis Hayes, Kirk Hinrich, Reece Gaines, etc. Scouts have seen them so many times over the course of a season and during their college careers, and often people don't spend enough time looking at the positives.

[close]

This is way funnier then you'll get credit for.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

I didn't expect Kaep's action to take off like this. The support he has received, and the conversations this has sparked among black athletes, has been great.

Pop is Pop, he's the man. If I could eat dinner with any NBA related person (outside of Rosalyn Gold-Onwude ) it would be him.

Look man. Let me counterpoint. I have lived the shit he's protesting. I'm sure you have, we know.

But let me ask you this, if this dude had even a thought he's still NFL relevant would he have done this?  I promise he would not have.  And you know it. I can't not think this is the current output of the "hey look at me" generation.

If LBJ kneels, I'll respect without question. If Jerry Rice kneels, if Jordan kneels, if Kobe kneels....etc. I can't do that with him. I question if this will further the cause or incite more violence in the end. MLK would not have approved.

I personally loved what the Seahawks did. That's would have meant so much more had they have done that first.

https://m.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

And I'll own maybe that is my age talking.

Edit: And I worry about my son on the West Coast every day. But he knows it's the guy who throws the second punch that ends up getting the foul.

Let the world see what happens to us. They are all aware now. I believe beyond my doubts that things are going to change.

But we are gonna thank Kaepernik.

When we should shed a tear for Martin. And half of you probably had to struggle to think about who this was. But he was the real beginning of change.

And that's a fact.

[Huff]

Whats the thoughts on lebrons comments?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Whats the thoughts on lebrons comments?

Haven't heard them yet. I'll let ya know when I do.

[Beezy]

I question if this will further the cause or incite more violence in the end. MLK would not have approved.

MLK wouldn't have approved of peaceful protest? MLK's form of protest is the only correct way to protest? Come on man. Leave that shitty argument to the racist white people.

You not respecting Kaep for doing this because he's not the best player in the league or at his position really doesn't matter. At all.

No movement was caused by one person. No one will be giving Kaep all the credit for anything. Everything going on now started with the protests in Ferguson, not famous athletes. Stop giving MLK credit for the whole civil rights movement.

[Brehvolution]

Almost all the people despising Kaep's kneeling are the same people who have such nice things to say about Obama.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Almost all the people despising Kaep's kneeling are the same people who have such nice things to say about Obama.

What's that even mean?

[Let's Cyber]

I personally loved what the Seahawks did. That's would have meant so much more had they have done that first.

I thought it came off as more of a team unity thing than sending any kind of greater message. 

The fact Kaep ruffled so many feathers is part of what was so effective about his action, it was defiant.  It put racial inequality head to head with people's feelings concerning a flag.  For a lot of the people the flag won that fight and it gets to the heart of the problem. It's about how our country places nationalistic symbols and token gestures over the treatment of actual human beings and how most (white) people don't like talking about this stuff.  The hand wringing over the sanctity of flag or the opinion that kneeling is disrespectful to the military are both used as a shield to stop the conversation from going forward.  They'd rather divert from the topic precisely to avoid addressing Kaep's message.

The goal posts seem to constantly be moving whenever the issue of racial inequality is brought up

"We can't talk about racial injustice or fixing the broken criminal justice system until you honor this piece of cloth.  You're dividing us by not standing"

It's been 20 years since Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf didn't stand for one game several months* while playing for the Denver Nuggets.  In all professional sports, it's been a 99.99% compliance with the "Stand for the flag" quota over the course of several decades. Honoring the Flag for the sake of some false sense of unity clearly isn't the hurdle we need to jump to allow our society to fix these issues or they'd already be fixed.

[benjipwns]

Abdul-Rauf actually didn't stand for almost the entire season. It wasn't until a reporter asked him what was up and he answered honestly regarding U.S. oppression of Muslims or whatever it was that the league suspended him and the whole thing blew up. Nobody had seemed to notice it before or at the least bothered to mention it.

His suspension was for one game though. And then he had to stand.

[Let's Cyber]

ah I didn't know that.  Kind of similar to what happened with Kaepernick, no one noticed shit until the 3rd preseason game

[benjipwns]

Now I'm curious if he stood for the Canadian anthem. He did later play for Vancouver.

[brawndolicious]

There are two types of people who aren't directly affected by discrimination: Those who feel guilt and want to change things and those who take a glib and apathetic position of believing that things aren't all that bad or that the country isn't ready yet for change.

The thing is MLK would think not standing for the flag is too peaceful of a way of protesting. He didn't change shit with speeches, what worked was boycotts/sit-ins/lots of cameras to record police brutality. If you want people to believe it's time to change things then you better make them angry.

[benjipwns]

I think the incredibly outsized reaction to Kaepernick's harmless protest might garner some support as part of MLK's philosophy was forcing everyone else/potential allies to see the reaction of the racists to his also relatively harmless protests. If people lose their damn minds like this over a guy kneeling rather than standing during the national anthem? That's informative.

Not to say this is anywhere close to risky or whatever as you mention, but rather that the reaction is the important thing.

[brawndolicious]

I think the incredibly outsized reaction to Kaepernick's harmless protest might garner some support as part of MLK's philosophy was forcing everyone else/potential allies to see the reaction of the racists to his also relatively harmless protests. If people lose their damn minds like this over a guy kneeling rather than standing during the national anthem? That's informative.

Not to say this is anywhere close to risky or whatever as you mention, but rather that the reaction is the important thing.

Oh I agree that it worked very well. Especially since he's a pro athlete so he knows that now everyone is going to be watching any little mistake he makes on the field. It's a good step forward before this country reaches the level of chaos there needs to be for change.

[Let's Cyber]

I think the incredibly outsized reaction to Kaepernick's harmless protest might garner some support as part of MLK's philosophy was forcing everyone else/potential allies to see the reaction of the racists to his also relatively harmless protests. If people lose their damn minds like this over a guy kneeling rather than standing during the national anthem? That's informative.

Not to say this is anywhere close to risky or whatever as you mention, but rather that the reaction is the important thing.

yuuuuup

There is this a mix of covert racism and outright denial (I've heard a lot of "racism isn't that bad anymore", "young people don't know how good they have it nowadays" type bullshit) at play here and you need to breach that barrier to get through to people.  Like you said, the hope is this type of overblown reaction will open up some eyes.  The Martin Luther King Jr. criticism of the "white moderate" will never not be poignant.   

In relation to the Nebraska player in the OP, Michael Rose-Ivey, Nebraska's governor has agreed to meet with him.  Governor Pete Ricketts is a professional shitheel, I imagine the meeting will be more like getting called down the principal's office for Rose-Ivey than a constructive conversation but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[Phoenix Dark]

I didn't expect Kaep's action to take off like this. The support he has received, and the conversations this has sparked among black athletes, has been great.

Pop is Pop, he's the man. If I could eat dinner with any NBA related person (outside of Rosalyn Gold-Onwude ) it would be him.

Look man. Let me counterpoint. I have lived the shit he's protesting. I'm sure you have, we know.

But let me ask you this, if this dude had even a thought he's still NFL relevant would he have done this?  I promise he would not have.  And you know it. I can't not think this is the current output of the "hey look at me" generation.

If LBJ kneels, I'll respect without question. If Jerry Rice kneels, if Jordan kneels, if Kobe kneels....etc. I can't do that with him. I question if this will further the cause or incite more violence in the end. MLK would not have approved.

I personally loved what the Seahawks did. That's would have meant so much more had they have done that first.

https://m.

I'm not a fan of hypotheticals. Kaep has some things to lose. He's still young and talented enough to have some type of role, and I still think he's superior to Gabbart in SF. "Would he have done this if xyz" doesn't interest me. He did it. Others are doing it. High school kids are doing it. Should I respect them less because millions of dollars aren't on the line for them? They're still black in America dealing with vindictive white people, there's no telling what potential repercussions they could have to deal with. Same with the guys at Nebraska who are dealing with death threats. Those guys might never play in the NFL, but they'll be looking for a regular job one day. What do you think their potential white employer is going to think about this. In short, the most famous people aren't the only people with a lot to lose.

How do you know what MLK would approve? Do you honestly think this guy would decide hey don't protest America brehs?


No offense to you because you're black and I respect you, but I hate the way conservatives have turned MLK into a caricature. As if he's not the same guy who proposed socialist type economic views, was fiercely anti-war, sympathized with rioters, and dared question America's greatness. MLK does not solely in a vacuum in which he simply gave the "I Have A Dream" speech and then died. That's not what happened.