US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[VomKriege]

The most hilarious thing is that it's written black on white in the link he tweeted (which quotes the Bloomberg wire).

Branstad and Xi met when China's leader made his first trip to Iowa in 1985 during a sister-state exchange. At the time Xi was a young agricultural official from Hebei province, working as director of the Feed Association of Shijiazhuang Prefecture.

The two men have reconnected several times since then. Despite their cultural differences, the pair forged strong bonds and have used their mutual love of agriculture to bridge the gap between their respective countries on human rights, economic issues and other tensions.

Branstad in 2012 feted Xi, then China's vice president, with an elaborate dinner at the Iowa Capitol in Des Moines, and days after Trump's election embarked on a previously planned, week-long trade mission to China and Japan, his fourth trip to China in the last seven years.

Out of curiosity, I checked and Iowa is also sister state with localities in Japan, Russia, Italy, Taiwan among others. Damn you, small rural landlocked state for having the foresight to open yourself to international exchanges ! 

I deleted my tweet expressing concerns about the Branstad nomination as I've been convinced that my concern was not justified.

[benjipwns]

SYPH!!!!

https://www.crtv.com/the-mark-steyn-show

[Phoenix Dark]

Terry Branstad is apparently good friends with Xi Jinping

though John Podesta's ThinkProgress didn't seem to agree:
(Image removed from quote.)

Liberals sure love shitting on white people.

[Samson Manhug]

Terry Branstad is apparently good friends with Xi Jinping

though John Podesta's ThinkProgress didn't seem to agree:
(Image removed from quote.)

Man sometimes you gotta dial back the snark and cynicism and just read, progressives.

[benjipwns]

how dare this anti-american sneak fuck question Our President

[benjipwns]

"I think when people voted for Donald Trump they realized he owned a lot of stuff with his name on it." - Senator Rand Paul

[Syph]

SYPH!!!!

https://www.crtv.com/the-mark-steyn-show

oh i know baby
 

[chronovore]

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2016/12/11/dearest-electors-or-ha-ha-ha-what-the-fuck-is-actually-happening-in-this-reality-show-nightmare-that-we-cannot-escape/

And now, 17 intelligence agencies, led by the CIA, confirm that there was election meddling with the explicit goal to elect Trump — and it was Russia, or one-step removed from Russia. And funnily enough (ha ha ha *sob*), Trump on the same day announces that his potential secretary of state is Rex Tillerson, Exxon CEO who is also (ha ha ha *weep*) pals with Putin. For extra-credit, Trump sided with Russia and against the CIA in this report. I want you to crystallize that in your mind: a Republican president-elect just doubted the intelligence from the CIA to prop up Russia. This is a man who has no experience as a politician or a leader who routinely rejects intelligence briefings in order to say, nah, I don’t buy it, thanks.

[benjipwns]

Trump's just a regular American, we don't get intelligence briefings that later turn out to be worthless, he's just draining the swamp.

[Phoenix Dark]

Wouldn't removing Trump (via electoral college) be a win for Putin too? The point of this meddling wasn't simply to attempt to elect Trump (which surely they viewed as a longshot), it was to stir doubt in the United States electoral process/democracy. Removing Trump would affirm views on elections being "rigged" and lead to unrest. It would be a massive embarrassment for the US.

[benjipwns]

Especially if it was to elect Clinton.

Which just seems like an impossible argument to be making to GOP electors who are party hacks. At least the "elect Romney" or something seems like something you could convince a GOP elector of, not, VOTE IN HILLARY.

[Phoenix Dark]

Seems like the best move would be for the electors to elect...John Kasich. Remember the election is not about the establishment, the election is about the electoral college electors. And the electors decided this election was about winning the presidency. And only John Kasich could beat Hillary Clinton Donald Trump Vladimir Putin.

In the final hours it came down to 270 brave Americans.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[james]

Can someone explain why cabinet picks are kept in a bag until after the election?

isnt knowing who the SoS will be sort of important info for voters to consider?

It would help the "Hillary and Trump" are the same people if they could then compare the other people that come in the package

[benjipwns]

Trump did start throwing out names early on IIRC.

He released a whole list of his top judge picks.

It was all mocked of course since he had no chance.

[chronovore]

Especially if it was to elect Clinton.

Which just seems like an impossible argument to be making to GOP electors who are party hacks. At least the "elect Romney" or something seems like something you could convince a GOP elector of, not, VOTE IN HILLARY.

Well, the argument is that the Electors would represent what Americans want, and Hillary is 2.7M voters ahead of Trump in that regard. But it's an astounding improbability that the per-state Electors would vote to overturn their own state's choice. I mean, it is arguably what would be best for the status quo, but it would be a vote of no-confidence in the actual election system, which would have its own knock-on effects.

[chronovore]

Gay Mike Pence Doppelgänger Is Collecting Money For LGBTQ Causes

[benjipwns]

I mean, you're making the argument [in the broader sense, not you specifically] to people who are Trump/GOP supporters. It's irrelevant that the electors can be faithless or that she won the popular vote or anything else. Why would they, as Trump/GOPers want to elect Hillary Clinton as President? From a purely partisan standpoint I would never expect Democratic/Hillary electors to do the reverse either.

[chronovore]

I mean, you're making the argument [in the broader sense, not you specifically] to people who are Trump/GOP supporters. It's irrelevant that the electors can be faithless or that she won the popular vote or anything else. Why would they, as Trump/GOPers want to elect Hillary Clinton as President? From a purely partisan standpoint I would never expect Democratic/Hillary electors to do the reverse either.

Yes, right. I mean, liberals (me) were almost expecting at one point that Trump would get the flyover states' popular vote, but thank god for the Electoral College, because Trump can't win that. Right? Right?  :'(

[Syph]

Seems like the best move would be for the electors to elect...John Kasich. Remember the election is not about the establishment, the election is about the electoral college electors. And the electors decided this election was about winning the presidency. And only John Kasich could beat Hillary Clinton Donald Trump Vladimir Putin.

In the final hours it came down to 270 brave Americans.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

still SNL's best work to date

[El Babua]

I mean, you're making the argument [in the broader sense, not you specifically] to people who are Trump/GOP supporters. It's irrelevant that the electors can be faithless or that she won the popular vote or anything else. Why would they, as Trump/GOPers want to elect Hillary Clinton as President? From a purely partisan standpoint I would never expect Democratic/Hillary electors to do the reverse either.

Yes, right. I mean, liberals (me) were almost expecting at one point that Trump would get the flyover states' popular vote, but thank god for the Electoral College, because Trump can't win that. Right? Right?  :'(

Us libs were way too confident in the electoral map when we should have been aware of the one universal constant: cacs gonna cac. 

[benjipwns]

We cacs gave you a warning in the primaries. Remember when Hillary was up 20 points going into the Michigan primary.

[Syph]

cacs gonna cac, but even more foreboding of a sign shouldve been clintons gone clinton

[Trurl]

I think that every elector who believes Trump is unacceptable should vote for Romney.  He would heal a divided nation.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/808101702658363393

[chronovore]

https://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/808101702658363393

Not gonna lie, that is a WORLD-CLASS troll.

[Great Rumbler]

I think that every elector who believes Trump is unacceptable should vote for Romney.  He would heal a divided nation.

Pretty sure you meant to say McMullin there.

[fizzel]

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2016/12/11/dearest-electors-or-ha-ha-ha-what-the-fuck-is-actually-happening-in-this-reality-show-nightmare-that-we-cannot-escape/

And now, 17 intelligence agencies, led by the CIA, confirm that there was election meddling with the explicit goal to elect Trump — and it was Russia, or one-step removed from Russia. And funnily enough (ha ha ha *sob*), Trump on the same day announces that his potential secretary of state is Rex Tillerson, Exxon CEO who is also (ha ha ha *weep*) pals with Putin. For extra-credit, Trump sided with Russia and against the CIA in this report. I want you to crystallize that in your mind: a Republican president-elect just doubted the intelligence from the CIA to prop up Russia. This is a man who has no experience as a politician or a leader who routinely rejects intelligence briefings in order to say, nah, I don’t buy it, thanks.

American media suddenly turn against regime change. 

[VomKriege]

I'm not sure the FSB eggheads in Moscow are that confident about Trump being such a treat. He's obviously very chummy to Putin right now, but a lot of the legislative branch (and cogs in the administration, including all the military and security types) will probably resist to a complete U-turn. If the whole discussion about the election interference gains traction, he may be fickle enough to just pivot (in appearance) to the wind direction. And Trump being very antagonistic on Iran (saying he'll undo the nuclear deal and having Bolton as a cabinet member) is maybe not much to Russia's liking either.

EDIT : Speaking of which...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/11/netanyahu-aims-to-discuss-various-ways-to-undo-iran-deal-with-trump

[VomKriege]

I recommended the Reuters War College podcast in that other thread and I will link to the following episode about militias inside the USA here featuring J.J. MacNab, a writer specialised in "anti-government extremism" within the US :

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-militias-war-college-podcast-idUSKCN1252EI

It goes on to discuss how this movement has seeped pretty far, notably via its affinities with the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) which counts Mr. Clarke and Mr. Arpaio among them and a fair number of members.

[thisismyusername]

http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites-chant-trump-trump-trump/

[james]

I think that every elector who believes Trump is unacceptable should vote for Romney.  He would heal a divided nation.

Pretty sure you meant to say McMullin there.

Its the same old song and dance.

When everybody is on the "not-trump" team but cant decide between 27 different people, Trump wins.

[VomKriege]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-fiorina-idUSKBN14122B?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

Fiorina being considered as Director of National Intelligence. Does she have any experience with intelligence ?
If anything, I guess Trump's mandate is gonna be a giant experiment to test what "running the country as a Fortune 500 company" does

[Great Rumbler]

Does she have any experience with intelligence ?

Let's be real, none of Trump's picks for any position have much experience with intelligence.

[brawndolicious]

He's probably figuring she'll reduce the effectiveness of the agency, which makes sense since he is more concerned with monitoring American citizens than protecting us from cyber attacks (there's a campaign slogan for dems in 3.5 years).

Can you imagine anybody less welcome in top secret meetings than Trump?

[Madrun Badrun]

http://i.imgur.com/GjQPWFV.png

[Raist]

Well that was worth it.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/808418914376056832

[zomgee]

why am i on so many anti vaccination mailing lists now

[Syph]

Clinton campaign backs intelligence briefing for Electoral College electors

Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman John Podesta on Monday backed Electoral College electors who are asking to receive an intelligence briefing on foreign interventions into the 2016 election ahead of their December 19 vote.

The US intelligence community is increasingly confident that Russian meddling in the American election was intended to steer the election toward Trump. Podesta's call comes after reports on the intelligence community's thinking about Russia's connections to the presidential election.

Can someone fucking explain this to me
Seriously
Please type it out in bright letters what constitutes "Russian meddling"
Because short of actually hacking the voting booths and making Clinton ballots register as Trump votes, wtf is their cause of action?

Yes, I'm sure a lot of those wikileaks were the result of Russian efforts. And...??

Really starting to get annoyed by the bullshit on both sides, but lately specifically the Democrats. They're doing their best to create a climate where no one can be trusted and no source is trustworthy and you should just doubt everyone and everything. Hell, I posted those quotes from CNN, but given how they've devolved to tabloid headlines and reporting in recent months, who the hell knows if those are even reputable quotes.

So I ask again, sincerely, what specifically is the "Russian meddling" that is being thrown about, is it anything more than vague quotes by Putin on state-owned propaganda news channels and helping wikileaks, or does it actually amount to successfully hacking voting machines and literally affecting the results?


edit: "steer" and "actually affected" are two different things, nahmean? Russia wanting Trump to win wasn't some big secret that is only now being revealed. It just seems like the left (granted, it's fucking Harry Reid and Podesta, so, well, you know) are using the boogieman Russia to mask their own shortcomings. No longer (if it ever was) is the narrative about the Clinton campaign's historically embarrassing collapse and failure to take Michigan/rust belt/white voters seriously, but about how "well you know the russians like trump so somethings fishy"
Just because Russia wanted Trump to win doesn't mean his win isn't legitimate.
I can't believe this has made me defend Russia ffs comrades

[VomKriege]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1412RY?il=0

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump has delayed until January an announcement on how he plans to step back from running his business empire to avoid conflicts of interest, his spokesman said on Monday.

"The announcement will be in January," said Trump spokesman Sean Spicer.

Last month, Trump said he would hold a news conference on Thursday to spell out how he will separate himself "in total" from his worldwide business holdings.

Trump is the Star Citizen of politics.

[Dickie Dee]

Really starting to get annoyed by the bullshit on both sides, but lately specifically the Democrats. They're doing their best to create a climate where no one can be trusted and no source is trustworthy and you should just doubt everyone and everything.

Oh fuck off...

[VomKriege]

Please type it out in bright letters what constitutes "Russian meddling"
Because short of actually hacking the voting booths and making Clinton ballots register as Trump votes, wtf is their cause of action?

We don't know but that's kinda the point : full public examination of the findings and evidence collected will help citizens make up their own conclusions on the extent of the potential Russian intervention.
I agree with you the vagueness of the claims currently being discussed is a problem but I don't think it should be minimized either. It wouldn't be considered appropriate for foreign countries to comment an ongoing election, so hacking institutions and individuals clearly in favor of one candidate is a big deal.
Considering Russia has been suspected of a cyberattack against Ukraine to generate false result projections to be broadcasted on national TV (and a variety of other stunts to disrupt the electoral work), you can't really rule out more extreme foul play either.

[chronovore]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-fiorina-idUSKBN14122B?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

Fiorina being considered as Director of National Intelligence. Does she have any experience with intelligence ?
If anything, I guess Trump's mandate is gonna be a giant experiment to test what "running the country as a Fortune 500 company" does

But Fiorina is famous for ruining her companies.

[Syph]

Please type it out in bright letters what constitutes "Russian meddling"
Because short of actually hacking the voting booths and making Clinton ballots register as Trump votes, wtf is their cause of action?

We don't know but that's kinda the point : full public examination of the findings and evidence collected will help citizens make up their own conclusions on the extent of the potential Russian intervention.
I agree with you the vagueness of the claims currently being discussed is a problem but I don't think it should be minimized either. It wouldn't be considered appropriate for foreign countries to comment an ongoing election, so hacking institutions and individuals clearly in favor of one candidate is a big deal.
Considering Russia has been suspected of a cyberattack against Ukraine to generate false result projections to be broadcasted on national TV (and a variety of other stunts to disrupt the electoral work), you can't really rule out more extreme foul play either.

I agree with the bolded 100%, I'm just saying I'm under the impression (again, totally open to being shown otherwise) that the only hard "proof" is a relationship to wikileaks, but not actual hacking of american voting machines, in which case it seems to me like the media is going "well it's possible..." and just stirring shit up.
Again, would love to be proven wrong (actually I wouldn't because that would imply a shitstorm of epic proportions lol) but it seems like a lot of noise right now, and it's becoming increasingly difficult to wade through it.

[Dickie Dee]

Clinton campaign backs intelligence briefing for Electoral College electors

Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman John Podesta on Monday backed Electoral College electors who are asking to receive an intelligence briefing on foreign interventions into the 2016 election ahead of their December 19 vote.

The US intelligence community is increasingly confident that Russian meddling in the American election was intended to steer the election toward Trump. Podesta's call comes after reports on the intelligence community's thinking about Russia's connections to the presidential election.

Can someone fucking explain this to me
Seriously
Please type it out in bright letters what constitutes "Russian meddling"
Because short of actually hacking the voting booths and making Clinton ballots register as Trump votes, wtf is their cause of action?

Yes, I'm sure a lot of those wikileaks were the result of Russian efforts. And...??

Really starting to get annoyed by the bullshit on both sides, but lately specifically the Democrats. They're doing their best to create a climate where no one can be trusted and no source is trustworthy and you should just doubt everyone and everything. Hell, I posted those quotes from CNN, but given how they've devolved to tabloid headlines and reporting in recent months, who the hell knows if those are even reputable quotes.

So I ask again, sincerely, what specifically is the "Russian meddling" that is being thrown about, is it anything more than vague quotes by Putin on state-owned propaganda news channels and helping wikileaks, or does it actually amount to successfully hacking voting machines and literally affecting the results?


edit: "steer" and "actually affected" are two different things, nahmean? Russia wanting Trump to win wasn't some big secret that is only now being revealed. It just seems like the left (granted, it's fucking Harry Reid and Podesta, so, well, you know) are using the boogieman Russia to mask their own shortcomings. No longer (if it ever was) is the narrative about the Clinton campaign's historically embarrassing collapse and failure to take Michigan/rust belt/white voters seriously, but about how "well you know the russians like trump so somethings fishy"
Just because Russia wanted Trump to win doesn't mean his win isn't legitimate.
I can't believe this has made me defend Russia ffs comrades

It probably is just a case of Russia knowing a useful idiot when they see one, but collusion is far from ruled out. Don't blame them a bit for wanting to know more.

[etiolate]

The Russian meddling is supposedly nothing more than the leaks that damaged Clinton's campaign, which is to say the influence was Clinton getting exposed. It's still a shoot the messenger, but they'v been trying to shoot he messenger by discredint wikilinks and Assange without that helping them. So now they're skipping over wikileaks and going to Russia.

I don't find it surprising that Russia would poke into the US election. We know we've been doing that sort of stuff around the world ourselves. My concern can only go that far because the damage done was mostly self-inflected and if the Dems try to buck the will of the people then the sort of civil war environment that would cause is either fucking crafty Russian espionage or just the Dems being fucktards.

Problem is that the last two Republicans elected President have had the Dems try to deligitimize the election in response. So while I expect that Russia may have had some input, though Wikileaks outright denies this, I also expect the transition to go through and Russian interference talk to vanish shortly thereafter. You know, the same way Clinton Foundation donations vanished.

[VomKriege]

I'm just saying I'm under the impression (again, totally open to being shown otherwise) that the only hard "proof" is a relationship to wikileaks, but not actual hacking of american voting machines, in which case it seems to me like the media is going "well it's possible..." and just stirring shit up.

But that's not what is being discussed here or in the quotes you mentioned. It seems obvious the debate has been reignited by the same intelligence findings that were disclosed during the campaign (when the 17 agencies apparently agreed in their assessment), before the vote and it concerns mostly a sustained series of hacks.

[Human Snorenado]

Problem is that the last two Republicans elected President have had the Dems try to deligitimize the election in response.

Which, you know, the Republicans ABSOLUTELY DID NOT do to the past two Democrats elected President, Commie Bill and Birth Certificate Barry. Herp a fucking derp. Your stupidity continues to know no bounds.

[Nola]

From what I understand the difference now is the confidence level and shift of opinion the CIA and other intelligence agencies have attained by accruing enough circumstantial evidence pointing toward high level direction, one step removed from the Russian government, through several indirectly sponsored groups to hack and carry out a disinformation/propaganda/hacking campaigns to influence the election in favor of Donald Trump. Broad things I have heard are the hacking of BOTH the GOP and Democratic party's emails(but one side was sat on while the other given to wikileaks) and channeling fake news stories through social media. But the details and strings the intelligence community have are obviously not going to be made public because they have to protect their sources(which of course gives any partisan or person wanting to not believe this an easy rationalization and line of attack to bring in to doubt the findings).

That seems to be the gist of it. Now apparently they will put together a more comprehensive report to be released in a month or so.

I guess the downside to how this is happening is that absent specifics, the left especially, seems to be taking a very liberal(no pun intended) interpretation of "help Trump get elected...." Which means many are running to the assumption this means voter machines were hacked and votes switched to Trump when I have seen nothing to indicate that is what is being said.



EDIT: Also LO-fucking-L at toilet framing this whole thing like Dems have uniquely poisoned the well of having this discussion because of Gore and some lefties crying about Ohio, when the guy that just won made his political name on questioning the current president's legitimacy to serve.

[VomKriege]

Did the "Russia might have funded Trump's campaign" thing ever turn up?

As in direct funding, no, I don't think so.

[fizzel]

 

[Syph]

Well that was worth it.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/808418914376056832

ayyy lmao

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/808456602076545025

shout out to jill stein getting that paper
 

[etiolate]

Problem is that the last two Republicans elected President have had the Dems try to deligitimize the election in response.

Which, you know, the Republicans ABSOLUTELY DID NOT do to the past two Democrats elected President, Commie Bill and Birth Certificate Barry. Herp a fucking derp. Your stupidity continues to know no bounds.

Birth Cert was dumb, but there's an extra element with the way the Dems attack the democratic process itself rather than trying to disqualify the individual.

[Great Rumbler]

Problem is that the last two Republicans elected President have had the Dems try to deligitimize the election in response.

Which, you know, the Republicans ABSOLUTELY DID NOT do to the past two Democrats elected President, Commie Bill and Birth Certificate Barry. Herp a fucking derp. Your stupidity continues to know no bounds.

Birth Cert was dumb, but there's an extra element with the way the Dems attack the democratic process itself rather than trying to disqualify the individual.

[etiolate]

Well point was that the Russia talk is more of the same circus and that's what people will see.  The higher idea is appeals against democracy and that trend becoming too common for comfort.

Either respond to those things or fuck off. Don't feel like going down to your level today. I got Street Fries. 

[Syph]

so romney officially out as sec of state
any read on this tillerson guy? apparently came recommended by condoleezza rice?

also: Did the Russians “hack” the election? A look at the established facts

[Tasty]

disqualify the individual.

The individual is inherently disqualified by virtue of having no qualifications. There's nothing to say there and apparently it doesn't matter to the GOP. They'd elect Putin himself, the constitution be damned, if it meant "draining the swamp" and "a break from the status quo."

[Syph]

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/807303305466703873

it's a couple days old but i just saw it now
should be an interesting next 6-7 days
(excuse the inflammatory tweet; just watch the vid)

[Cerveza mas fina]

Is the us becoming a russian puppet state?

[Samson Manhug]

Syph, it's not that difficult to understand:

The CIA assessed after the election that the attacks on political organizations were aimed at swaying the vote for Trump because the targeting of Republican organizations diminished toward the end of the summer and focused on Democratic groups, a senior U.S. official told Reuters on Friday.

Moreover, only materials filched from Democratic groups - such as emails stolen from John Podesta, the Clinton campaign chairman - were made public via WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy organization, and other outlets, U.S. officials said.

"ODNI is not arguing that the agency (CIA) is wrong, only that they can't prove intent," said one of the three U.S. officials. "Of course they can't, absent agents in on the decision-making in Moscow."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E

[james]

"I’m not really a fan of his policies, but I like the fact that he gave me health insurance. "
"Well … we liked him because he just seemed to be a businessman. We're in a small, rural area where there's not a lot of businesses right now going on, and so we can't really have anything else shut down, because it affects everybody."
"I'm hoping that they don't, ’cause, I mean, what would they do then? Would this go away? I mean, I mean, will the insurance? It will go away?'
http://www.vox.com/2016/12/13/13901874/obamacare-trump-voter-health-insurance-repeal

As I said, its time to take a long hard look at the fact that some people are simply low IQ, and the Democrats have not approached them correctly.

Someone with an IQ of 75 cannot process policy. They do not understand nuance. They cannot analyze something critically or see beyond the immediate.

"Business good, me like"

Thats it. And thats why Trump won. He spoke at a 3rd grade level. "He tells it like it is" because they understand the words coming out of his mouth