US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[Oblivion]

The craziest thing about the focus on antifa is we just had a bunch of racists in combat gear stalking the streets but there's people acting like there's some sort of equivalence in the threat of violence. One side kills people on a semi-regular basis, while the other maced Baked Alaska.

And apparently, even that might have been fake and the fucker maced himself.

[Himu]

The pro-life movement is damaged goods unfortunately, and has too much baggage. Definitely could use a reset after Trump.

It had to anyway really, especially if you believed those polls about millennials being more pro-life than both generations before it. The same polls and others have shown they aren't anti-gay, anti-sex, or generally as culturally conservative as The Religious Right or evangelical movement were or are. Those had been hooked at the hip for so long because the big money was in the latter. As they have died off (in many cases, literally) there was going to be some separation especially from those who wanted to get away from the evangelicals. A lot of the newer religious figures try to appear almost apolitical in comparison to the ones who pushed the agenda starting in the 1980s. Hillary was the more religious candidate easily, Obama had a similar freedom there that McCain and Romney never did despite the fact that he was an Atheist Muslim. Rove's fear always was that the religious and pro-lifers who would vote Republican would stay home, that they were the easiest "should be locked" group to turn off.

Right. I think we should argue pro-life in a different, albeit similar manner. "Abortion is murder!" isn't going to work when people don't consider it murder because they don't consider it an actual life form yet.

I think you'll see more people who are like me or Biden: pro-life, but not exactly against a woman's right to choose, either. Abortion being legal doesn't change someone's ability to say "I'm not going to abort." Render unto Caesar and all that.

https://www.americamagazine.org/content/all-things/scenes-2016-march-life

Good take.

[benjipwns]

On one of my usual stupid side notes related to something somewhere somehow, I learned this weekend that there's apparently a small part of Houston that only recently reversed being dry (no liquor sales...not water/hurricane wise). Because as part of the annexation agreement a hundred some years ago they were required to keep it so. And that same agreement said only the original neighborhood could vote to reverse it. Except, it had been annexed, so it couldn't even come to a vote as there wasn't even any sort of body or mechanism to hold such a vote anymore.

Apparently they figured out some way around it and it was finally repealed in 2016. (63%-36%)

Here's the group against it:
http://www.keepheightsdry.com/

As we head toward election day...

The facts are all out there.

We urge you to vote AGAINST Prop 1 to change the dry area. In many non-obvious ways, the dry area has shaped The Heights as we know it today. Not morally or culturally, but in the stark reality of land use and restrictions.

The positive by-product of the dry area has been:

• A prevalence of small, locally owned businesses.
• A residential, small-town feel despite the lack of blanket deed restrictions.
• A predominantly historic look that is not overshadowed by "cookie-cutter" retail development.
• A distinct character that can't quite be described easily, but that is the reason so many are invested in this issue.

It's been doing this for 104 years already.

We're not saying that changing the dry area would change the Heights on November 9th or even next year. But it would fundamentally alter the direction of the Heights well into the 21st century. Keep the Heights dry not just for the sake of keeping it dry. Keep it dry as a mechanism to keeping it local, residential, and historic.

Keep the Heights historic.

Preservation extends beyond architecture.

 

“Heights life isn’t just about architecture; it’s a unique subculture, an artsy little neighborhood that feels like a small town tucked within sprawling Houston. And it seems everyone wants a piece of it.”
(Houstonia Magazine)

Keep the Heights weird.

Residents once flocked to the area to escape the big city, but today it's hipsters and young couples that are drawn to its rich and character-filled architecture, mom and pop-type shops and funky restaurants. Find something you never knew you wanted atone of 19th Street's quaint boutiques. Thrift stores, antique havens and cafes prove to be popular at the Heights-strip. Stop by for the "First Saturday Arts Market" on the first Saturday of each month for live music, crafts, plants and artwork.
(Visit Houston)

[Himu]

Man, I need to visit heights this week. Thanks for the reminder!

[benjipwns]

Ah, yes, I presume to stock up on some large quantity items after the liquor riots of November 9th, 2016 tore down the neighborhood to build a CostCo, Home Depot and Best Buy on its ruins.

[benjipwns]

https://www.americamagazine.org/content/all-things/scenes-2016-march-life

This magazine has some interesting content, like this man whose kids are jerks to him: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2017/08/21/day-my-kids-convinced-me-pray-president-trump

But as always, the comments are the best content:

Jay Zamberlin1 week 6 days ago
Oh, so that is how the "America crowd" absolves their support of the Democrat Party, with its aggressive and undying support for abortion, and by extension, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and other pro abortion groups: just indicate that those policies actually "reduce" abortions. I don't know if we should laugh or cry at that logic. No wonder the Catholic world is in such grave condition.

Re - sexuality
Reality rears its ugly head. It's a very strong drive, analogous to a boiler drum full of hot, pressurized steam. Capable of great good if properly harnessed, hugely destructive if not. I know from my own faults.

'Gay' men are some of the most distressed individuals I know of. It's a difficult burden. I was watching tv with another guy in the lounge aboard ship a few years ago (retired marine engineer). We were talking, not really watching the tv when the other man spontaneously gave me a big hug. I pushed him away firmly, telling him I was happy to be his acquaintance, maybe even his friend as time progressed. It obviously hurt him but that's life. It can be difficult. He, me, you, do what you can. Pray, try, persevere. Life's usually not all that difficult, sometimes it is.

The men I have no understanding of are those who freely choose the 'gay' lifestyle, largely because of our current social permissiveness, (the nearly exclusive majority, the remaining fraction vanishingly small). As Jesus said (with so very many others), men should (obviously) love each other. Obviously. But equally obviously, not sexually. In an obvious masculine way. It's only very recently anyone has had any difficulty whatever with that simple observation. That's how far and fast we've devolved.

obviously, why are all these gay men always giving me big hugs

[Himu]

Father Martin's book is fantastic.

America Magazine is good. It's usually a more "left" Catholic news source, being that it's a Jesuit magazine. Which of course makes it a wonderful target for rad trads like the quoted person in your post.

I'm surprised it took all that for him to pray for Trump.

[FatalT]

You guys can hug me but only in a masculine way, I don't want to catch the gay.

[Rufus]

You guys can hug me but only in a masculine way, I don't want to catch the gay.

Should have thought of that when you registered here.

[Human Snorenado]

The anti-abortion movement has and always will be about dictating rules to a minority.

[Himu]

The anti-abortion movement has and always will be about dictating rules to a minority.

I think that's a poor conclusion. Do you really think that there aren't pro-life people who legitimately find the issue important because they truly think it's bad? Do you really think that Pizzagate shooter cared about dictating rules for women?

[TakingBackSunday]

Motherfuckers, this is how you get Jaydub to awake from his crypt

[Himu]

Do you really think that there aren't pro-life people who legitimately find the issue important because they truly think it's bad?

If they exist, they're rare as fuck. Most pro-life folks don't give a shit about babies. Just look at the state of post-natal care in states with strict abortion laws.

I wouldn't say they're rare. I think one problem with pro life is that you've got two different kinds of people all mixed in the same group. There's definitely people who will to take away women's rights. But I know plenty who genuinely care about life post-birth and advocate for things like the end of the death penalty, war, animal rights, and climate change.

Just like how there's pro-choice people with very legitimate arguments for why they are because of how it impacts life.

Either way, just because there are crazies who use it as an advantage to control people doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate arguments for it. I think looking at raw data like that and not actual people is a mistake to make.

[Tasty]

Pro-lifers only care about the life of the child until it exits the womb. After that? Fuck it. Baby's gotta start pulling its own bootstraps.

[Human Snorenado]

Why is it suddenly important for more people to be born I mean have you met people

[Himu]

Pro-lifers are this, pro-lifers are that. Just a bunch of stereotypes and partisan nonsense that would be a Facebook meme that you click like on and then move on to the next one. It doesn't treat people like they're people. It's just a micronized stereotyped. Just like white people are ______, Christians are _______. But don't dare say Muslims are terrorists, black people are savages who will kill you, and that LGBT people are sex addicted without the capacity to love. They're all stereotypes in the end and fit people in neat little boxes so we don't ever have to actually think about their arguments with merit or them as people.

Why is it suddenly important for more people to be born I mean have you met people

Yes I have, actually. When my city was flooded people banded together. Neighbor helped neighbor. People formed lines not for food or water or housing but to volunteer. People have a wonderful capacity for goodness.

[Human Snorenado]

Would these be the same species that kept other humans as property, then lynched them for decades to keep them in line, and in other places on this planet built factories to more efficiently murder their fellow man or no?

I mean there are great things about humanity- symphonies, theater, the invention of oral sex, occasional fits of generosity like you listed, but it seems to me we're like, a garbage species and also that your religiosity is contributing to this bizarre hipster Christian pro-life stance where you're like, "oh for me I'm pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be illegal." Ok, that's like, great, said every pro-choice person ever. But anyone that associates with trash like Operation Rescue and bothers to show up and harass women going into clinics on one of the hardest days of their lives is trash, and I feel just fine making that judgment.

[Tasty]

Abortion is a partisan issue in the United States. If you are pro-life and vote based on that, you'll be voting for Republicans every time.

Which probably isn't surprising since you're a gun nut now anyways.

[Atramental]

I'm pro-gun and pro-choice myself.

[benjipwns]

Not to get too far into the weeds on this, but just because I feel I flubbed up my earlier post regarding how the pro-life movement has to make some changes, I agree with the thrust of Mandark's post right under it and messed up my post trying to edit it, but recently and I've probably posted about this before when it's come up, I think that we're sorta on a threshold where abortion is becoming less of an actual cultural issue to the extent it was for the three decades prior. Mainly due to scientific advancement, stuff like the morning after pill, etc. There's a lot of rearguard actions like the licensing and inspections stuff and parental consent but I don't know it seems like it's been pushed more and more to the fringes with a lot of that stuff stalling out as it hits mainstream conservatives and those millineal polls on it had similar aspects to it. Yes, the polls were saying the kids are more pro-life but they were also saying the kids were less militantly pro-life that was often being ignored by conservatives.

And I'm babbling again but I guess I've really just felt it's one of those issues that science is going to continue to undermine. I don't think politically we are going to see significant change quickly or anything, I think we blew our wad there on gay marriage. I'm still amazed how fast Kennedy decided to settle that.

I can't really remember the last time I even discussed/debated abortion with people offline outside of a dumb panel thing I got roped into filling for somebody because I secret hate myself for enjoying undermining them. And I had to be that libertarian jerkass guy who asks "so who are we arresting and what are their minimum sentences?" which is a "strawman ad hominem tactic" btw.

Maybe other issues have just swamped it, since it basically is still a litmus test, but to use a terrible and entirely anecdotal evidence that relies on five hundred other variables, I can't remember the last time I saw the planned parenthood protesters with their fetus signs, seemed like they were constantly outside the one for years.

On the plus side, at least if they're honest in their pro-life views, they aren't Nazi's we have to worry about.

[Himu]

Benji, we tend to be pro-life but also pro-choice.

As per:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/cover_story/2016/10/the_future_of_the_pro_life_movement.html

Pretty hard to go back after seeing a modern sonogram. I think science helps the pro-life position more than it undermines it like you said.

[Himu]

Why are we suddenly discussing abortion? Did Trump make moves to ban it or something?

I brought it up because Texas temporarily halted its ban on second trimester abortions.

[benjipwns]

Why are we suddenly discussing abortion? Did Trump make moves to ban it or something?

Queen posted a link regarding how pro-lifers who support Trump can justify backing him when he pardons someone like Arapio and without our designated discussion driver we're just flailing about helplessly.

[benjipwns]

Also Bernie Sanders probably thinks Hillary should have aborted her campaign.

[benjipwns]

I know exactly what this thread needs, me extensively quoting from a Kurt Schlichter column: https://townhall.com/columnists/KurtSchlichter/2017/09/04/all-this-true-conservative-talk-about-principles-is-just-another-lie-n2376699

Let’s take the latest in a seemingly endless series of #fails from that smarmy dope Paul Ryan, King of the Fredocons. First, he rushed to help out the liberals with their ridiculous narrative about how Donald Trump is a “Nazi” (Wait, I thought the narrative memo had him being a Russian fifth columnist – damn, our president sure is versatile!). You couldn’t keep Ryan from eagerly jumping in with his usual more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger-about-Trump thing to help the left push its latest meme. Antifa though? Not so fast! Ryan, the poodle that he is, obediently waited until Nancy Pelosi led the way and offered some tepid words about these commie blackshirts and their thirst for blood before Brave Sir Ryan ran out and offered some tepid words about these commie blackshirts and their thirst for blood.

Paul Ryan is a guy who can’t even take his own side in a fight – or, more to the point, our side in a fight.

So, for the benefit of us suckers, basically Ryan was against DACA when it couldn’t be undone, but is now panicking when it can be undone because it might actually be undone – unless President Trump lets Ryan roll him, in which case he deserves to be laughed at in exactly the way his Never Trump enemies will laugh at him.

Gosh, this DACA two-step kind of reminds me of Obamacare and how gung-ho the True Conservatives were to repeal it when they couldn’t repeal it and how suddenly they turned ungung-ho when they actually could. Weird. If I was cynical, I’d say that it seems like the establishment GOP has been lying to our faces for years and years, but that couldn’t be true because our establishment betters have principles and stuff.

Of course, it’s not just the Wisconsin Wimp shifting into conservagimp mode. Soon-to-be-former Senator Jeff Flake, that braying doofus, naturally joined the cave-in chorus. Ben Sasse, Flake’s braying doofus doppelgänger, probably joined in, but I refuse to spend valuable time looking at his tedious Twitter feed to find out. And since it involved betraying Republicans, you have got to assume John “Blue Falcon” McCain is in on it too.

They want open borders. They want illegals. They want cheap foreign labor that doesn’t get uppity to man their donors’ corporations so the Captains of Crony Capitalism don’t have to fuss with American workers who won’t tolerate being treated like chattel. Yeah, “we’re better than that” all right – if you mean that we are better than enforcing the laws the American people passed through a constitutional process if the ruling class decides it doesn’t like them.

And in the most Congressional GOP move of all possible Congressional GOP moves, they now want to try to pass a proposed DACA fix using Democrat votes and so their proposed deal to the Democrats – who really, really want 800,000 future voters – is to trade it for…wait for it…still waiting…nothing. The GOP isn’t asking for anything. No new limits on immigrants, no reform of chain immigration, certainly no wall. Nothing. I hope the dealer tries out this innovative new negotiation strategy on me the next time I bargain to lease a fine German sports sedan.

Actually, the GOP does get something – shafted, as usual. Yeah, their deal is we give you Democrats what you want and, in exchange, you call us racists when Elizabeth Warren proposes to declare all these middle-aged Dreamer kids US citizens. Because, you know, they had dreams and stuff.

Pathetic. You know, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that the real reason the Republicans don’t want to end the filibuster to allow them to pass legislation is that they would then be expected to pass legislation that their voters want and the GOP establishment doesn’t.

So now there are really four political parties stuffed into two political party infrastructures:

Right, pro-establishment (The RINOs)
Right, anti-establishment (The Trump voters)
Left, pro-establishment (Hillary’s snobby urban corporatist jerk corps)
Left, anti-establishment (The Bernie/Warren/Stalin Axis of Venezuela)

This explains why we see the DC establishment unifying to protect its power and privilege – and holding us normals in utter contempt. Most Democrat senators and Republican senators have much more in common with each other than with us – to the GOP establishment, Trump’s clearly the bigger threat than a counterpart across the aisle. It also explains why you hear about Bernie supporters who went for Trump instead of Felonia von Pantsuit.

conservagimp 

[thisismyusername]

Also Bernie Sanders probably thinks Hillary should have aborted her campaign.

Jack:

[Himu]

Ending DACA is evil.

[benjipwns]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/348927-obama-teams-2020-signals-spark-chatter-among-dems

 

[Himu]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/348927-obama-teams-2020-signals-spark-chatter-among-dems

 

Researching his record on race, gun "control" (isn't it really hard to get an LTC in Massachusetts?), LGBT rights, income equality, healthcare, Wall Street but who am I kidding? I'll be forced to vote whoever is on the Dem ticket in 2020 at this point even as I lose rights and liberties and take it like a bitch.

[benjipwns]

One former aide to Clinton said there’s danger in Obama heavyweights being seen as aligning with a candidate, because it could deepen factions within the party.

[Himu]

No one cares Clinton aide. You suck by proxy. Big talk coming from a Clinton aide.

[Tasty]

If they're picking someone from Mass, why not someone people actually know about and generally like?

[benjipwns]

You have to be a native born citizen, she's from India.

[Himu]

If they're picking someone from Mass, why not someone people actually know about and generally like?

(Image removed from quote.)

Too socialist.

[chronovore]

https://twitter.com/ClickHole/status/904871765872189448

[Tasty]

If they're picking someone from Mass, why not someone people actually know about and generally like?

(Image removed from quote.)

Too socialist.

Bernie made it work.

[Himu]

If they're picking someone from Mass, why not someone people actually know about and generally like?

(Image removed from quote.)

Too socialist.

Bernie made it work.

The establishment democrats don't like that stuff unfortunately. Fortunately, the red tide continues to grow despite losses last year as expected and now most millenials view socialism as a good thing. Just need to start local and start companies that are managed democratically as per the workers rather than the top-bottom bullshit we have now.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

[benjipwns]

to give him a little credit, that part sorta depends on what your goal is

a 74 year old Socialist raising nearly $300 million and going from 5% in the polls to stretching out the primaries against the most qualified person in human history, firing DWS, and having a bird land on his podium has to be way way above expectations going in

i would have assumed a best case scenario was like Pat Buchanan in 1992, get like 30% in two early friendly states, get a primetime convention speech out of it for some baffling reason and have the nominee adopt a few of your phrasings then go back to what you were doing before

instead he's going to be a thing in Democratic politics despite not being a member of the party and people will seriously use the phrase "Bernie primary" probably...unless of course Our Revolution crashes and burns in a Dean/OFA fashion only this time with a bunch of long time progressive activists who have never accomplished anything running it

plus also, Seth Rich was murdered so Bernie never got a real fair chance

[Himu]

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

Depends. Bernie lost, but left American politics? We won. Like I said last year, no matter if Bernie wins or loses we win.

[FatalT]

You guys can hug me but only in a masculine way, I don't want to catch the gay.

Should have thought of that when you registered here.

Aw shit, now I want cock.

[thisismyusername]

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

Depends. Bernie lost, but left American politics? We won. Like I said last year, no matter if Bernie wins or loses we win.

We'll see in 4 years, I guess. But I highly doubt Socalism is gonna become a thing. You have the "stigma" in America over it due to the 60's/Red Scare and how "lol communism failed" when that isn't the whole of socialism.

As it is, people keep saying they want Basic Healthcare, and then balk at being taxed. I had a Facebook argument with a stupid-ass Republican that was like "lol why should I pay for OTHER peoples healthcare?" "...Because it benefits YOU when/if you fall on hard times as well? Take it this way: You get taxed for infrastructure/the roads you ride on, why wouldn't you want to be tax'd for healthcare in the case you need it?" "Because 'fuck you, got mine' (paraphrased)."

It was at that point that I knew (well I already knew, but you know what I mean) America is truly fucked. You can lead a horse to water (read: them learning that government programs aren't all that fucking bad) but you can't make them drink.

You guys can hug me but only in a masculine way, I don't want to catch the gay.

Should have thought of that when you registered here.

Aw shit, now I want cock.

wtf I love men now.

[seagrams hotsauce]

to give him a little credit, that part sorta depends on what your goal is

I mean his goal was to become president, right? Unless his sole goal was starting a conversation about maybe single payer not being the worst thing ever I'd say he didn't make it work

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

Depends. Bernie lost, but left American politics? We won. Like I said last year, no matter if Bernie wins or loses we win.

I really don't know how you can take a look at how fractured and in-fighty the left is at the moment and call that a W

[Human Snorenado]

Right. I think we should argue pro-life in a different, albeit similar manner. "Abortion is murder!" isn't going to work when people don't consider it murder because they don't consider it an actual life form yet.

With all due respect to such a position, some of those people can be educated so they're not absolute fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

If they were worth being educated, the market would take care of it tho

[Joe Molotov]

https://twitter.com/kashanacauley/status/905070898725752833

Christ, what an asshole.

[thisismyusername]

I really don't know how you can take a look at how fractured and in-fighty the left is at the moment and call that a W

It means the Democrats will never win and that's a W for me (and A_I_A, I guess).

[Brehvolution]

Ending DACA is evil.

https://twitter.com/kashanacauley/status/905070898725752833

Christ, what an asshole.

It's about time they sack up and do the horrible shit they said they were going to do.

[TVC15]

a 74 year old Socialist raising nearly $300 million and going from 5% in the polls to stretching out the primaries against the most qualified person in human history, firing DWS, and having a bird land on his podium has to be way way above expectations going in

A mouse ran into my foot at a urinal in a bar bathroom on Sunday night and I screamed like a little girl and kinda peed on myself a little. Should I be running for office, maybe?

[seagrams hotsauce]

I really don't know how you can take a look at how fractured and in-fighty the left is at the moment and call that a W

It means the Democrats will never win and that's a W for me (and A_I_A, I guess).

Yeah but anyone who sincerely thinks the direction the right has taken in the last few years/months/week is a W is a jerkoff

[Joe Molotov]

a 74 year old Socialist raising nearly $300 million and going from 5% in the polls to stretching out the primaries against the most qualified person in human history, firing DWS, and having a bird land on his podium has to be way way above expectations going in

A mouse ran into my foot at a urinal in a bar bathroom on Sunday night and I screamed like a little girl and kinda peed on myself a little. Should I be running for office, maybe?

do not disturb the friendguy

[Himu]

to give him a little credit, that part sorta depends on what your goal is

I mean his goal was to become president, right? Unless his sole goal was starting a conversation about maybe single payer not being the worst thing ever I'd say he didn't make it work

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

Depends. Bernie lost, but left American politics? We won. Like I said last year, no matter if Bernie wins or loses we win.

I really don't know how you can take a look at how fractured and in-fighty the left is at the moment and call that a W

Depends on your definition of the left. It's a W if your agenda is starting to be considered afaic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/07/20/the-millennial-lefts-war-against-liberalism/



Also "at the moment" haha. Like the left is never in fighting.

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

Depends. Bernie lost, but left American politics? We won. Like I said last year, no matter if Bernie wins or loses we win.

We'll see in 4 years, I guess. But I highly doubt Socalism is gonna become a thing. You have the "stigma" in America over it due to the 60's/Red Scare and how "lol communism failed" when that isn't the whole of socialism.

As it is, people keep saying they want Basic Healthcare, and then balk at being taxed. I had a Facebook argument with a stupid-ass Republican that was like "lol why should I pay for OTHER peoples healthcare?" "...Because it benefits YOU when/if you fall on hard times as well? Take it this way: You get taxed for infrastructure/the roads you ride on, why wouldn't you want to be tax'd for healthcare in the case you need it?" "Because 'fuck you, got mine' (paraphrased)."

It was at that point that I knew (well I already knew, but you know what I mean) America is truly fucked. You can lead a horse to water (read: them learning that government programs aren't all that fucking bad) but you can't make them drink.

You guys can hug me but only in a masculine way, I don't want to catch the gay.

Should have thought of that when you registered here.

Aw shit, now I want cock.

wtf I love men now.

Red scare? Never seen it. You're talking about a generation who has never seen or dealt with that crap. And a guy on Facebook being anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. Fact is, most Americans would like healthcare for all. Just seems like NYT/Wapo tier argument that "millenials will reject socialism when they get jobs" when actually, most of came to embrace socialism after getting a job and paying taxes and had to survive on minimum wage because our government refuses to look after its citizens. We aren't talking about people who come to embrace something because they're a contrarian college kid. We are talking about people who have faced actual economic adversity, are pissed, and are looking elsewhere. This is why your Red Scare argument isn't true.

But as of now, education is the best way to take advantage of the current situation. Most of the older generation don't even know what socialism even is. My dad thinks I'm dumb for being socialist, but I asked him about unions and democratized job environment regarding workers and their rights. He was complaining about how his job pays far less than it did back in the 90's and I asked if they had a union. Nope. After that he was on board, and then I told him that was socialism. That gave him pause. 

So we'll see in four years? Do you expect millenials' economic situation to improve in four years? Because if you don't, you should expect more double downing on red.

[thisismyusername]

Red scare? Never seen it. You're talking about a generation who has never seen or dealt with that crap. And a guy on Facebook being anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. Fact is, most Americans would like healthcare for all. Just seems like NYT/Wapo tier argument that "millenials will reject socialism when they get jobs" when actually, most of came to embrace socialism after getting a job and paying taxes and had to survive on minimum wage because our government refuses to look after its citizens. We aren't talking about people who come to embrace something because they're a contrarian college kid. We are talking about people who have faced actual economic adversity, are pissed, and are looking elsewhere. This is why your Red Scare argument isn't true.

But as of now, education is the best way to take advantage of the current situation. Most of the older generation don't even know what socialism even is. My dad thinks I'm dumb for being socialist, but I asked him about unions and democratized job environment regarding workers and their rights and he was on board, and then I told him that was socialism. That gave him pause. 

So we'll see in four years? Do you expect millenials' economic situation to improve in four years? Because if you don't, you should expect more double downing on red.

No, I don't expect my generation to not be permanently fucked (reason why I'm considering suicide, actually). At the same time, I know quite a few deep-in-the-paint Republicans that will not budge when it comes to Trump perpetually fucking over their party and policies.

At the same time, I can see a lot of the "socialists" for that generation only being there because it's "cool/popular/whatever" at the moment. If there is another Ron Paul/Bernie Sanders next election (I'm sure there will be) they'll flock to him/her and then be disappointed when it fails and the Republicans/Democrats STILL don't get shit done that benefits their generation.

Sunrise, Sunset basically. There's no chance of "socalism" happening when Republicans and Democrats both control the government and third parties (read: Sanders as an Independent and progressives that get into the Democrats to try to "enact change from within"/Sanders in 2016) can't really get shit done. Why do you think Sanders got as far as he did (in the government, I'm not talking the races)? Because he had to compromise a bunch of shit/laws.

[Mandark]

If "socialism" just means an expansion of social services within a mixed economy, then the good news is that the Democratic Party had already moved pretty far in that direction since 2016.

If it's reorganizing the economy into anything recognizably Marxist, not holding my breath.

[Himu]

You're right. There's no chance. Until they're six feet under. We need to get Gen X in on the action as a buffer for when boomers start dying. I don't think this is happening because it's cool at all. For some, maybe. But most people I know legitimately think that the current system is shit. It takes quite a leap to say,"our generation is fucked" and then "it's the cool thing right now."

Even if it's cool right now, it's the perfect opportunity to take advantage purely because our generation is fucked and we have no other recourse. Are you saying we are going to double down on capitalism after it fucked us?

Also, please don't kill yourself because of a percieved future.

[seagrams hotsauce]

to give him a little credit, that part sorta depends on what your goal is

I mean his goal was to become president, right? Unless his sole goal was starting a conversation about maybe single payer not being the worst thing ever I'd say he didn't make it work

Also, Bernie did not actually make it work

Depends. Bernie lost, but left American politics? We won. Like I said last year, no matter if Bernie wins or loses we win.

I really don't know how you can take a look at how fractured and in-fighty the left is at the moment and call that a W

Depends on your definition of the left. It's a W if your agenda is starting to be considered afaic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/07/20/the-millennial-lefts-war-against-liberalism/



Also "at the moment" haha. Like the left is never in fighting.

I mean sure, there's always in-party bickering on either side of the aisle, but the DNC is in complete freefall, a segment of supporters of the loser of the primary outright refused to vote for the winner in the general election, the minority of actual 'libs get the bullet too' extremists are getting airtime, and Democrats are losing any real legislative power beyond opposing the batshit nonsense Trump and co are bringing to the table. There's never really been as much open hostility between establishment Democrats and the younger, DSA-leaning groups.

Compare that to the right, who went through an identity crisis well before Trump was really on the radar during the dawn of the Tea Party, and they very quickly got in line behind the new doctrine, even if they weren't comfortable with it. Look at all the 'never Trump' Republicans that fell in line as soon as he won, and continue to vote in favor of his dumb bullshit and bend themselves in knots defending whatever asinine boondoggle he's gotten himself into this week.

As someone who's always been annoyed by how centerist American liberal politics have been in my lifetime, I'm glad the conversation for the left has shifted in the direction it has, and I hope that it continues going that way and that meaningful change can be enacted. But even Bernie has recently kinda softened his tone to keep his seat at the table.

I'm just skeptical that a capitalistic monolith that effectively "controls" the entire worlds economy will adopt any real socialist policies that aren't just tokenism, but I'd love to be wrong.

[Himu]

If "socialism" just means an expansion of social services within a mixed economy, then the good news is that the Democratic Party had already moved pretty far in that direction since 2016.

If it's reorganizing the economy into anything recognizably Marxist, not holding my breath.

Unions
Raise the minimum wage to 10-12 federally
Better Healthcare
Worker autonomy and democratized work places
Make it law that corporations are NOT people
Leave guns alone
Better education
Prepare for robots taking over jobs
More limited war budget (pump into education)
End the drug war

Socialism is more than Marxism. When I talk of socialism, I'm not talking of state socialism. Trusting the state The founding fathers were right on that.

[Phoenix Dark]

I support DACA but one thing that kind of makes me "ehhh" during this debate...all the people arguing that DACA hasn't taken jobs from Americans...how can you argue that while also pointing out that many/most of the 800k have jobs? Aren't those jobs that natural born Americans could have?

[toku]

https://dreamacttoolkit.org/

[Mandark]

I support DACA but one thing that kind of makes me "ehhh" during this debate...all the people arguing that DACA hasn't taken jobs from Americans...how can you argue that while also pointing out that many/most of the 800k have jobs? Aren't those jobs that natural born Americans could have?

(Homer's brain voice): They spend the money they earn from these jobs, leading to more jobs.

[Joe Molotov]

Breeders are taking jobs from already born people by popping out more babies that will take our jobs.