US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[CatsCatsCats]

I definitely felt my privilege tonight listening to all these stories of the various voter suppression plays going on throughout the country on my way to casually park in front of a ballot box and drop both my wife’s ballot and mine in without waiting in a single line or even seeing another human

[Madrun Badrun]

I think the point is, in a healthy democratic environment those things shouldn't matter when you, as a country, face an extraordinary situation with Trump.   If this was Jeb, these would be good gains in a hard situation.  With Trump, it just showcases how sick America actually is right now. 

[Himu]

I told you for months that gun control would lose democrats votes against moderates and you like TVC’s post? If Beto didn’t say shit like,”AR-15’s were designed to kill!” he would have won. Instead he decided to play a progressive Bay Area campaign in fucking Texas.

When you play with wedge issues like that instead of catering to the locals you are playing with fire. This is why Lamb won. He played to his district. Beto didn’t campagin for the state of Texas.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

If anything, this shows that just being "not Trump" is not enough. Dems can notch some wins with that, but not enough to radically alter the current landscape. They're going to have to commit to fighting and fighting hard, pretty much everywhere, to regain control. The House results show it can happen, but the Senate results show that it's not a guarantee by any means. If you're looking for something good out of this [outside of taking control of the House], it's that Dems probably won't be resting on their laurels come 2020.

After hill dawgs dumb ass "not trump" campaign, I'm surprised people ran with that. Shut the fuck up and put up.

[Mandark]

By the time everyone (cough cough California) is done counting their votes the total margin could be pretty damn big, if not landslide-y, but the way things are certain votes count more than others.

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

For a start, I think Dems need to drop gun control as an issue for a while. It’s a wedge issue that I think can be sacrificed, especially since I think guns are so ubiquitous legally and illegally in the US that effective gun control is impossible anyway.

My two big worries are that environmental issues, which the party shouldn't and probably can't move back to the right on, are a huge barrier in some areas (mostly Appalachia and Wyoming) and in the age of Trump it's harder to pander culturally without going full racist. Back in the day when Mark Warner wanted to win rural Virginians he hired a country band to write his campaign theme song, now he'd have to paint his bus like the General Lee and promise to execute MS-13 members personally.

[TVC15]

On a federal level, it would take a near supermajority of Democrats to enact potentially effective gun control, and if dems ever have a near supermajority that they want to spend on a wedge issue, socialized health care and strengthening women’s rights come first. Gun control is probably never going to be important enough to waste political capital on in our lifetimes.

[Nola]

I think the point is, in a healthy democratic environment those things shouldn't matter when you, as a country, face an extraordinary situation with Trump.   If this was Jeb, these would be good gains in a hard situation.  With Trump, it just showcases how sick America actually is right now.

Sure, but again, there is no good reason we should just casually ignore all the powerful background stuff that is playing a major role in our voting system. Either in the way we talk about the results or in how we talk about winning in spite of that, especially when reporting on the elections.

[curly]

beto's campaign carried multiple house seats for the dems because of the money and energy it brought, in part because he was a progressive

it was always very unlikely any democrat would win in texas

[Himu]

By the time everyone (cough cough California) is done counting their votes the total margin could be pretty damn big, if not landslide-y, but the way things are certain votes count more than others.

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

For a start, I think Dems need to drop gun control as an issue for a while. It’s a wedge issue that I think can be sacrificed, especially since I think guns are so ubiquitous legally and illegally in the US that effective gun control is impossible anyway.

My two big worries are that environmental issues, which the party shouldn't and probably can't move back to the right on, are a huge barrier in some areas (mostly Appalachia and Wyoming) and in the age of Trump it's harder to pander culturally without going full racist. Back in the day when Mark Warner wanted to win rural Virginians he hired a country band to write his campaign theme song, now he'd have to paint his bus like the General Lee and promise to execute MS-13 members personally.

I don’t see why it’s hard. Democrats should use a per district/state strategy rather than create ideological party lines. Not every strategy is going to work for every state or district and democrats should be playing the game that way and allow leeway for moderation than call for purity tests.

[agrajag]

By the time everyone (cough cough California) is done counting their votes the total margin could be pretty damn big, if not landslide-y, but the way things are certain votes count more than others.

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

For a start, I think Dems need to drop gun control as an issue for a while. It’s a wedge issue that I think can be sacrificed, especially since I think guns are so ubiquitous legally and illegally in the US that effective gun control is impossible anyway.

My two big worries are that environmental issues, which the party shouldn't and probably can't move back to the right on, are a huge barrier in some areas (mostly Appalachia and Wyoming) and in the age of Trump it's harder to pander culturally without going full racist. Back in the day when Mark Warner wanted to win rural Virginians he hired a country band to write his campaign theme song, now he'd have to paint his bus like the General Lee and promise to execute MS-13 members personally.

Yes, and this is a symptom of the disease US and other countries have caught lately.

[Himu]

beto's campaign carried multiple house seats for the dems because of the money and energy it brought, in part because he was a progressive

it was always very unlikely any democrat would win in texas

Cruz is unliked and Beto ran like he belongs in California. Beto could have won if he were more...centrist.

If he won as a centrist he still would have carried. That’s how unpopular Cruz is.

[Nola]

I don’t see why it’s hard. Democrats should use a per district/state strategy rather than create ideological party lines. Not every strategy is going to work for every state or district and democrats should be playing the game that way and allow leeway for moderation than call for purity tests.

They just did that this election.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Dems can take votes from red states on environmental issues by tying them to money making propositions.

You know what a bunch of corn farmers right now are gritting their teeth while chasing checks after being bailed out. If dems can convince them to use those lands for energy production and make money, that's the gateway. It worked during the ARRA.

[zepblackstar]

Beto talking gun banning didn't help him outside of the metro areas. Dumb move.

[Himu]

Stfu Cindi. For comparison, Cruz's 2012 race was 56-40 against a wet noodle "proper Texan" Dem. This was way closer, and like curly said, it brought in a bunch of other seats for the Dems.

You aren’t even Texan. You aren’t Texan.

He only got that far because Cruz is that unpopular. If he had minimized the rhetoric a bit he would have managed to get moderates to vote for him. If democrats need a progressive to vote when they need power, that’s on them for being idealists.

Saying,”it’s hard to hard to win Democrat in Texas” is an excuse. Play to your base. You do not talk about assault rifle bans, and talk like a Californian in Texas simply because it’s hard to win Democrat in Texas.

[Mandark]

Centrist Dems lost tonight in Tennessee, Indiana, and probably Missouri.

"Just run a campaign disassociated from the national party, geared towards local opinion" isn't a new idea. It's what 99% of candidates do in districts where they're at a severe partisan disadvantage, and it usually doesn't work... because they're at a severe partisan disadvantage.

Doesn't mean it's typically a bad strategy, but it's not setting the world on fire either.

[Phoenix Dark]

Republicans are getting wiped out in the midwest. Tariffs...

also on a separate note
https://twitter.com/JasonKirell/status/1060014644440563713

[curly]

cindi is so clueless that she says dems should run campaigns tailored for their districts when that's exactly what dems did this cycle

nintex level disconnect from reality

[PogiJones]

I got pretty much exactly what I wanted. Any Supreme Court nominee for two years can be a conservative and, more importantly, an originalist; and Trump's insane gov't is gonna be neutered by a Democrat-controlled house. He may even get impeached, if we're lucky.

This landed just about perfectly for what I believe to be the best interest of the country.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

I got pretty much exactly what I wanted. Any Supreme Court nominee for two years can be a conservative and, more importantly, an originalist; and Trump's insane gov't is gonna be neutered by a Democrat-controlled house. He may even get impeached, if we're lucky.

This landed just about perfectly for what I believe to be the best interest of the country.

Congrat on contorting yourself into what's happening, again.

[Mandark]

I always have to remind myself about the Republican Congressmen: the MMQB guy is the New York one, the horror author is the super racist one.

[thisismyusername]

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

I mean it's simple: Tell them their jobs are safe, you're going to close borders/whatever/E-2(?)'s that let Indians come for Tech/Medical/etc. jobs. This is how you'd win those rurals easy. They may be opposed to abortion/race equality/etc. but if you tell them "hey, that stuff is basically nothing compared to keeping your job here and keeping you safe and comfortable." Rurals would turn up.

Oh and don't put up a "popular"/infamous (read: hated by the rurals) candidate if your opposition is getting decimated by a clownshoes opponent. That, too.

[ToxicAdam]

Democrats just need to be more focused on gun control. Demand licensing of all owners and have that license revoked if you are careless with your weapons and/or mentally incompetent. You can even push for older ages of permits yo get guns out of the hands of 18-19 year old civilians.

Focusing on banning ARs, or whatever accessory of the week is in the news is a losing cause.

[Himu]

Wi

Centrist Dems lost tonight in Tennessee, Indiana, and probably Missouri.

"Just run a campaign disassociated from the national party, geared towards local opinion" isn't a new idea. It's what 99% of candidates do in districts where they're at a severe partisan disadvantage, and it usually doesn't work... because they're at a severe partisan disadvantage.

Doesn't mean it's typically a bad strategy, but it's not setting the world on fire either.

It’s dependent on the state, obviously. I don’t think it should applied as a wide brush. Your comparisons are bad because these aren’t all the same. For Tennessee it was headed red way early. It wasn’t as competitive as the media said it was. It also didn’t feature a vulnerable candidate like Cruz. Candidates like Lamb proved appealing to moderates can work. If the races are going to be tight, and you’re going against an unpopular incumbent, it makes strategic sense to appeal to moderates. Beto lost because he did not appeal to Texans outside of those in urban centers. That centrist democrats lost in other states isn’t proof that Beto would have lost as well, because those states aren’t Texas. I think Beto played with fire and got burned.

That said the upside is that democrats expose a vulnerability against Cruz and have opportunity the next time he’s up for election.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Cruz was a vulnerable candidate?

lol

[Nola]

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

I mean it's simple: Tell them their jobs are safe, you're going to close borders/whatever/E-2(?)'s that let Indians come for Tech/Medical/etc. jobs. This is how you'd win those rurals easy. They may be opposed to abortion/race equality/etc. but if you tell them "hey, that stuff is basically nothing compared to keeping your job here and keeping you safe and comfortable." Rurals would turn up.

Oh and don't put up a "popular"/infamous (read: hated by the rurals) candidate if your opposition is getting decimated by a clownshoes opponent. That, too.

I mean we sort of ran this experiment for the last 60 years, when racism is well presented, even against economic populism, even against really well presented economic populism, those candidates offering racism seem to win out pretty consistently.

And it seems to only be getting worse after somewhat leveling off as demographics are shifting and those people are getting more and more consumed by defending their perceived racial identities.

[zepblackstar]

uh? Didn't even think about this.

https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/1060014928793362432

[PogiJones]

completely incorrect, most of the issues with the Trump administration proper is due to the broad authority the federal government has in setting and implementing policy.

I didn't say he could do nothing; I said his plans would be neutered. And quite a bit of control over the budget will allow dems to hinder his plans pretty significantly (probably). Just look at how the GOP neutered Obama's efficacy from 2010 onwards.

Congrat on contorting yourself into what's happening, again.

What do you mean by this? How am I contorting myself? I'm a moderate that leans conservative and thinks Trump is insane.

And what do you mean, "again"?

[CatsCatsCats]

I think you want to get a lot of votes, you just gotta be like “yeah, shits fucked” it’s the one thing you can unite Americans behind. We all have different reasons and directions to point our fingers, but we all know we’re fucked in the long run 

[Himu]

cindi is so clueless that she says dems should run campaigns tailored for their districts when that's exactly what dems did this cycle

nintex level disconnect from reality

There’s nuance here. Some democrats have, some haven’t. Some have gambled on wedge issues. Almost the entire Democratic Party has dipped their toes in assault rifle bans and it cost them.

[Tripon]

Gillum conceding in Florida.

[Nola]

completely incorrect, most of the issues with the Trump administration proper is due to the broad authority the federal government has in setting and implementing policy.

I didn't say he could do nothing; I said his gov't would be neutered. And quite a bit of control over the budget will allow dems to hinder his plans pretty significantly (probably). Just look at how the GOP neutered Obama's efficacy from 2010 onwards.

Congrat on contorting yourself into what's happening, again.

 

What do you mean by this? How am I contorting myself? I'm a moderate that leans conservative and thinks Trump is insane.

And what do you mean, "again"?

It baffles me how a self-proclaimed moderate is knighting for an ultra-right-wing court. That doesn't really compute.

[Himu]

Cruz was a vulnerable candidate?

lol

Absolutely. People HATE Cruz. The fact Beto lost shows his incompetence.

[thisismyusername]

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

I mean it's simple: Tell them their jobs are safe, you're going to close borders/whatever/E-2(?)'s that let Indians come for Tech/Medical/etc. jobs. This is how you'd win those rurals easy. They may be opposed to abortion/race equality/etc. but if you tell them "hey, that stuff is basically nothing compared to keeping your job here and keeping you safe and comfortable." Rurals would turn up.

Oh and don't put up a "popular"/infamous (read: hated by the rurals) candidate if your opposition is getting decimated by a clownshoes opponent. That, too.

I mean we sort of ran this experiment for the last 60 years, when racism is well presented, even against economic populism, even against really well presented economic populism, those candidates offering racism seem to win out pretty consistently.

And it seems to only be getting worse as demographics are shifting and those people are getting more and more consumed by defending their perceived racial identities.

The "experiment" has been failing because the democrats focus on "race" (like you're doing) instead of telling old whites "hey, we got you." Sanders had support with younger PoC but not the older ones (IIRC, been a while since I've seen it) which shows that the "anxiety" about jobs/economy/etc. is valid among all races. There's zero need to focus on that beyond telling PoC things they want to hear ("upward mobility for your kids, less folks in jail with better education/socalized university fees") in addition to those rural whites ("but they [PoC] won't benefit as much as you would"/better phrased though).

[Phoenix Dark]

Cruz was always going to win, but downplaying Beto is a pretty weak argument to make given that he came closer than any candidate would have. Guns, race...it doesn't matter, Beto had to go all out. If this was an arpg, he had a pure dps glass canon build. He had to win with sheer numbers because anything outside of that would be a loss in the trenches.

Surprise, Texas is red. And yet it's looking like Beto helped a few dems win house seats tonight. He'll be fine.

[Himu]

Democrats just took the house.

[agrajag]

Can't wait to leave this shithole of a state.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Cruz was a vulnerable candidate?

lol

Absolutely. People HATE Cruz. The fact Beto lost shows his incompetence.

shit you really are the worst.

[agrajag]

if people hate Cruz so much, why do they keep voting for him

[Himu]

Agreed, disagree. Whatever. I think we can all agree that the Dems taking the house again is good.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

fuck i just liked a PD post.

[Great Rumbler]

Beto did come closer to winning a Senate seat in Texas than any Dem has in 30 years.

[zepblackstar]

Gillum conceding in Florida.

Desantis was really helped out by Trump in Florida with rallies. He was down at least 5.

Dems already saying they want Trump tax returns like that will help them in 2020. Stop focusing on stupid shit. Govern.

[thisismyusername]

if people hate Cruz so much, why do they keep voting for him

Because if they don't, their mother will die in a murder and a horoscope note will be planted next to the body.

[tiesto]

Republicans are getting wiped out in the midwest. Tariffs...

also on a separate note
https://twitter.com/JasonKirell/status/1060014644440563713

Wish this was true but it looks like King still has the lead according to CNN. So sick of seeing his 'cigar face' around here.

[Mandark]

Guys, I think I got it figured out.

What Democrats need to do to win is what I would want them to do anyway, and it would be easy.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Brilliant.

[agrajag]

Gillum conceding in Florida.

Desantis was really helped out by Trump in Florida with rallies. He was down at least 5.

Dems already saying they want Trump tax returns like that will help them in 2020. Stop focusing on stupid shit. Govern.

What are the primary functions of the house?

[thisismyusername]

Guys, I think I got it figured out.

What Democrats need to do to win is what I would want them to do anyway, and it would be easy.

I mean, where is the lie with what I'm saying? The economy is utterly fucked for the lower-middle class and even worse for the working poor (which a bunch of rurals are). Focusing on that completely and avoiding the landmines that rurals hate ("dey took our gunz", abortion) would be a better "cleanser" than "At least I'm not Trump! Vote for me!"

[Yeti]

Was really hoping for Gillum.  time to start drinking heavily

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Was really hoping for Gillum.  time to start drinking heavily

Start?


e:

I think santorum just came in his pants.

[PogiJones]

It baffles me how a self-proclaimed moderate is knighting for an ultra-right-wing court. That doesn't really compute.

A moderate, to me, doesn't mean always-in-the-middle-of-everything. A moderate is willing to consider the positions of all parties involved on each issue. I think a conservative court is (generally) a better court. I don't always agree with their decisions, but the principles they (usually) stand by (e.g., originalism, textualism, etc.) I think produces better results in the long run. I say I lean conservative because I'm very conservative on one social issue (abortion), whereas when it comes to things like healthcare, gun control, and economics, I dip to the left.

How is that hard for you to compute? Seems pretty straight forward to me. A moderate isn't always in the middle on every issue.

[Nola]

The "experiment" has been failing because the democrats focus on "race" (like you're doing) instead of telling old whites "hey, we got you." Sanders had support with younger PoC but not the older ones (IIRC, been a while since I've seen it) which shows that the "anxiety" about jobs/economy/etc. is valid among all races. There's zero need to focus on that beyond telling PoC things they want to hear ("upward mobility for your kids, less folks in jail with better education/socalized university fees") in addition to those rural whites ("but they [PoC] won't benefit as much as you would"/better phrased though).

Pointing out the obvious as evidenced by 60 years of data from candidates using all manner of appeals isn't focusing on race, it's just drawing rational conclusions.

[zepblackstar]

Was really hoping for Gillum.  time to start drinking heavily

They already saying a Tom Bradley effect happened in Florida with Gillum

[curly]

There’s nuance here.

the irony

[tiesto]

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

I mean it's simple: Tell them their jobs are safe, you're going to close borders/whatever/E-2(?)'s that let Indians come for Tech/Medical/etc. jobs. This is how you'd win those rurals easy. They may be opposed to abortion/race equality/etc. but if you tell them "hey, that stuff is basically nothing compared to keeping your job here and keeping you safe and comfortable." Rurals would turn up.

Oh and don't put up a "popular"/infamous (read: hated by the rurals) candidate if your opposition is getting decimated by a clownshoes opponent. That, too.

Why would rural whites care about Indians with H1Bs? That's really only an issue for heavy tech centers (i.e. the Bay Area, Seattle) which generally skew liberal anyways.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

completely incorrect, most of the issues with the Trump administration proper is due to the broad authority the federal government has in setting and implementing policy.

I didn't say he could do nothing; I said his plans would be neutered. And quite a bit of control over the budget will allow dems to hinder his plans pretty significantly (probably). Just look at how the GOP neutered Obama's efficacy from 2010 onwards.

Congrat on contorting yourself into what's happening, again.

What do you mean by this? How am I contorting myself? I'm a moderate that leans conservative and thinks Trump is insane.

And what do you mean, "again"?

This is what I see from you on when things happen:

[thisismyusername]

The "experiment" has been failing because the democrats focus on "race" (like you're doing) instead of telling old whites "hey, we got you." Sanders had support with younger PoC but not the older ones (IIRC, been a while since I've seen it) which shows that the "anxiety" about jobs/economy/etc. is valid among all races. There's zero need to focus on that beyond telling PoC things they want to hear ("upward mobility for your kids, less folks in jail with better education/socalized university fees") in addition to those rural whites ("but they [PoC] won't benefit as much as you would"/better phrased though).

Pointing out the obvious as evidenced by 60 years of data from candidates using all manner of appeals isn't focusing on race, it's just drawing rational conclusions.

Let me put it this way:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

That's the only time "race" should factor in: Convincing the rural whites that they'll be better off than the other races. Meanwhile, telling those other races "hey, you'll be better off, ignore what I'm saying about this since lol dem cacs amirite?" (paraphrased) would be better. It's a "balancing act" in a sense of trying to convince those rural whites that the policies you're proposing better them than the other races, while not really doing that.

I mean I have a deep-fried red voting police person on my Facebook that continues to support Trump while the world goes to hell because "lol at least those poor black folks don't get my shit from my tax money." That's the sort of person you have to convince while not alienating the other races.

[agrajag]

Dems have to find a way to make inroads among rural and exurban whites while not alienating their base and I'm glad it's not my job to figure that shit out.

I mean it's simple: Tell them their jobs are safe, you're going to close borders/whatever/E-2(?)'s that let Indians come for Tech/Medical/etc. jobs. This is how you'd win those rurals easy. They may be opposed to abortion/race equality/etc. but if you tell them "hey, that stuff is basically nothing compared to keeping your job here and keeping you safe and comfortable." Rurals would turn up.

Oh and don't put up a "popular"/infamous (read: hated by the rurals) candidate if your opposition is getting decimated by a clownshoes opponent. That, too.

Why would rural whites care about Indians with H1Bs? That's really only an issue for heavy tech centers (i.e. the Bay Area, Seattle) which generally skew liberal anyways.

tell 'em we're gonna build a big, beautiful wall so the Indians don't come steal their coal mining jobs

[Great Rumbler]

Probably the most shocking outcome tonight is that Oklahoma might actually send a Democrat to Washington.

Edit: Last precinct came in and it confirmed the Dem pickup.